What is the reasoning behind WotC's refusal to take a piece of the secondary market...

Also they end up with equivalent or lower average return per box as you can count the money cards on one hand, and the price being 2.5x higher means much fewer cards cover the cost of a booster.

And don't those boxes have less packs?

Same reason WotC doesn’t have dedicated DM employees for a D&D service—there’s not that much money in it.

The Master sets have 24 packs per box, which translates to an approximate $240 USD at a $10 MSRP per pack.

It has nothing to do with players, collectors or "investors".
WotC's consumer are distributors, distributors' consumer are Star City Games, Card Kingdom, Channel Fireball, Troll & Toad, the East Asia local distributor and the Latin America local distributor. Nobody else buys enough product to matter.
4/6 of those secondary consumers only go balls deep on randomized product they can sell $30+ singles from, the other two don't buy enough product to matter.

So the real reason sealed product doesn't have $30+ cards on them anymore is because SCG can't pretend they're Out of Stock while buying all the fetchlands for 1/4 the price they're gonna sell them at once they buy 1k each if they come out in products Wal Mart and Target offer at MSRP+$2.

He's never even pretended he's not an egotistical asshole but at least most of the bullshit he says has some economical trickle effect for the rest of the people involved in MtG. But yes, expanding the RL is the most retarded idea ever since it doesn't benefit ANYONE except for people who randomly happen to be holding the cards that become resserved.

RL hoarders are not a real market, they don't buy from stores and they don't really make money. Drop of Honey increasing 300% in value doesn't mean anyone is actually selling or buying it for $500. It's entirelly immaginary. And the only people who are still buying shitty RL cards that nobody plays are other hoarders. Eventually one of them will realize the retardation and sell everything at 10% "market value" to recoup and everyone else will panic sell just like every bubble ever.

If anything the RL should be shrunk to liberate all cards printed in Revised Tempest Block and Urza Block from the list. Or ban them all from Legacy and Commander so that the retards can continue playing pretend Wall St. without continuing to damage the active playerbase.

Hell, Drop of Honey increasing by 300% means one person decided to get a playset, which means half the copies available online are now gone, but people take that to mean BUYOUT BUYOUT because HALF OF THEM ARE GONE but it's really just that there aren't that many available overall to begin with.
Too many people are speculating.

>Or ban them all from Legacy and Commander so that the retards can continue playing pretend Wall St. without continuing to damage the active playerbase.
>The ABUR dual lands not being widely available to people "damages" commander

Confirmed for not owning original duals. They don't give you a huge advantage in Commander.

Banning them would be an empty gesture to new players and poorfags and piss in the cereal of people who've been playing for years.

Unban the moxen too!

>false comparison

The absolute state of Veeky Forums

>If anything the RL should be shrunk to liberate all cards printed in Revised Tempest Block and Urza Block from the list. Or ban them all from Legacy and Commander so that the retards can continue playing pretend Wall St. without continuing to damage the active playerbase.

How about you do what the people who run the banned list suggest and making your own custom list for your playgroup rather than beg for bans that'll never happen?

>t. noob who never played vs Oloro running Nether Void, Moat, Tabernacle and Null Rod.

Because user doesn't control the secondary market.
WOTC could destroy it with the flick of a finger, but instead they idly let it consume them.

The RL getting banned in Legacy is something that has been speculated for a couple years now because not even Star City can gather enough people for tournaments to be economically viable anymore.

You might as well just make a new format at that point. Legacy without the RL isn't legacy at all. A better solution would be allowing proxies like they do at some vintage tournaments, it's not like most decks are running large swaths of RL cards.

Unban Library of Alexandira in EDH, faggits. Got my Investor's Grade™ copy when it was like buying an Underground Sea. It's better than an Underground Sea though and I want to be able to play with it. Or are you telling me that if I want to play it I need all 5 Mox plus Black Lotus plus Ancestral Recall plus Time Walk plus Time Vault? Is that what you're telling me? Power tripping bitch Sheldon faggit, bitch is just mad that I got that Library and he can't have one without forking over 3× the money.

Look another whiny bitch. Have fun buying your 4× Mana Crypt / 4× Force of Will / 4× Mana Drain and all the other non-Reserved staples you'll be needing for your magical format of love and harmony where no one ever has to spend money.

Wizards really can't get rid of the Reserve List, it would create an unimaginable shitstorm.

What they can do is offer functional reprints of the same cards with another name and make a rule that you can only play a playset of each (Like Pokemon did when they had Professor Juniper and Professor Sycamore at the same time on Standard with the same effect).

Like, instead of Force of Will print Forceful Will with the same exact effect and establish the rule. Bam, problem solved.

It would generate an outcry, but legally speaking they would be safe.

I'm talking about Commander

The deep connection that MTG maintains with the secondary market is what's keeping me out of the game.

I know it's expensive, and that everyone says it's a temporary cost, as you can sell when you are trying to quit the game- I don't believe that the cards will be able to hold their value.

I'm a futures broker by trade. and the MTG is now less-regulated than the bicoin market, at least with the upcoming CME Bitcoin future contract (5 coin contract size, margin requirement will be 30% notional, cash-settled(Thank fucking god, I don't want someone taking delivery in bitcoin because they think it doesn't have a physical representation. Even the dumbest day traders know not to let a contract go into delivery for shit like Live Cattle.))

So since I view games as purely an item to be consumed for entertainment, the shitty-regulated market for MTG cards keeps me out.

Honestly, I would be printing a pack that's just a full set of each combination of non-generic land and selling that in the starter, but I don''t work for WotC. They probably just want to keep the skinnerbox going.

>Force of Will
That isn't a reserved list card champ.

Functional reprints go against the RL. Maybe you should read the reprint policy.

Mana drain is banned in Legacy, you can only play it in Vintage and Commander.

FORCE OF WILL ISN'T RESERVED YOU FUCKING MONG

Stupid fucking whiny bitches don't even know what the Reserved List is, what's on it, or why cards cost money. You suck monkey dong. You can rip a Force of Will out of a pack of Amonkhet right now, get to it. Fucking soyboy fucking shits.

Bozo, you're not talking about Legacy. You're talking about your magical land of milk & honey format where the only things banned are on the Reserved List.

Why would they unban everything else if they banned the Reserve List?

You're not ruining our format with your soyboy whinging. Make a new format where The Reserved List is banned. You can call it Modern. Slurp slurp.

Seek professional help.

Seek mancock

>don't even have to dedicate new resources to playtesting them
They do playtest them for draft.

>I know it's expensive, and that everyone says it's a temporary cost, as you can sell when you are trying to quit the game- I don't believe that the cards will be able to hold their value.

The only reason most people care about cards "retaining value" is that if they want to buy a new deck that costs hundreds of dollars every year or more than once a year they would really like to cash out their old deck first.

If decks didn't cost hundreds of dollars in the first place this would be irrelevant. If $50 got you a top tier competitive deck you'd almost never care about recouping that cost.

>Legacy without the RL isn't legacy at all.
> it's not like most decks are running large swaths of RL cards.
Explain your lack of logic.

Nigga you don't even know what the RL is.

>They do playtest them for draft.
There is also a guy on payroll who goes through the sets, one by one, and checks every other card across mtg history for an infinite combo. He isnt very good at his job though, and apparently shit like treasure cruise, dig through time and mental misstep just slips straight through the cracks to an eternal format banlist

Commander is irrelevant in every discussion.

It isn't a lack of logic because the reserved list cards that are run (Duals mainly but also cards like LED, Mox diamond, Tabernacle, Gaea's Cradle, City of Traitors, Grim Monolith, etc) define the format with the archetypes that they are a part of or helped create but none of these cards are run in a significant number with one another. For example, most decks do not play full playsets of the dual lands, storm decks run 4 led and a couple of duals, Lands plays mox diamond and taiga, and I can keep going on but I think you can get the point from here. Decks aren't jam packed full of RL cards, RL cards are often run in relatively small numbers compared to other cards but the RL cards that they do run are important.

Making the set that SHOULD be dedicated to reprinting older, high demand cards set at a much higher MSRP than any other draftable pack (read, all of them) balanced around draft will never not boggle my mind.

When are they going to cut the shit and just call it EDH masters, because that's really all it's doing. It doesn't do shit for actually lowering the price of modern/legacy outside of Goyf since he's had to be printed 3 times before a "reasonable" price, because everyone sees that important card A is getting a reprint, while important card B is not, so everyone starts buying out card B, skyrocketing the price.

Legally speaking, the RL isn't actually even binding. They've made changes to it before and can whenever they feel like it. They only don't because they're afraid they'll get yelled and people might bring empty suits against them. They could literally change the content of the RL tomorrow to just Chaos Orb and the people who wasted on money on hoarding cards couldn't do dick about it.

bullshit, there's noway this guy is real with how low quality magic cards are

they just playtest standard and watch the community playtest all the other formats

What I don't get about the RL is what's it actually doing? What "trust" is there between the consumer and WOTC that is so sacred, they can't reprint old ass cards? Why won't we be able to trust them if they do this? Is the concept that since Wizards broke this retarded policy, who knows what they'll do next? Isn't the RL the only thing they can do? People will get fucked, certainly, but the influx of players now actually able to engage in Legacy should jumpstart that dying format with a 100k volt. Same for Modern if they could be bothered to have a reprint set that actually works and not this shitty slow trickle of masters sets they've been doing.

Their shitty card quality and refusal to acknowledge complaints for the past couple blocks violates more trust than removing the RL would.

MtG is wildly successful because LGSs promote the hell out of it.
LGSs promote the hell out of it for the 2ndary market's sake.

One does not simply kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

Just don't play magic, you poorfags. Hobbies for grownups are expensive, and a magic deck costs less than a boat or a set of football pads or a pair of air jordans.

It entirely comes down to a bunch of people scared that their unplayable cardboard will lose value and they'll end up like the retards who sunk their fortune into Beanie Babies.

In reality old stuff will still have some collector value because while WotC could print new copies of Thunder Spirit, they can't print additional OLD copies of Thunder Spirit.

The only cards that will really be affected are ones whose price is a factor of them actually seeing play. And probably still not as much as people are afraid of because again, old copies will still be exactly as scarce as always. This will greatly impact hoarders, however.

>Thunder Spirit is $85 for a 1WW 2/2 with flying/first strike
>Aerial Responder is Five cents for a 1WW 2/3 with flying/vigilance/lifelink
>Any format that could play thunder spirit could play aerial responder

Magic the Gathering economics are completely fucked.

No they cannot. This is the reason they will not reprint a 2/2 flying first strike for WW1.

You show you complete lack of knowledge every time you post.

I dunno man.

I would open a few packs of 'commander staples' any day.

It would probably be completely undraftable though so it will never happen.

context

just fucking google

reserved list context

do it

Also;

Are you trying to imply that legacy is expensive?

Cars are expensive.

what game are you playing magic can be as cheap or expensive as you want

Thunder Spirit has been expensive since forever. Its cost was prohibitive to purchase as far back as 1994. I recall disinclining from purchase at this time due to this price. Not like it became less scarce since then.

>Cars are expensive.
Cars aren't expensive, the functionality they provide actually makes them really cheap when you budget against alternative means of travel.
Magic is very expensive compared to other pieces of cardboard with extremelly mediocre competitive payouts. You can make more money off pretty much any video-game where player economies or eSports are involved. And Yu-Gi-Oh! is a better LGS sustainer.

Thunder spirit went from $8-$12 between 1998 and 2014, it just spiked to fucking $80 when "muh investment" faggots started buying any RL card avaliable. And ironically, way past his competitive utility in any format.

As of right now, all WotC needs to do to sustain both Legacy and the Retarded List economy is print:
>Legendary Dual Lands
>A Mox Diamond that can only etb if you discard a Non-Basic land.
>A Null Rod that costs 2 Colorless or 2W(Phyrexian)
>An Intuition that costs 1UR and goes for only two cards.
>A land that gives you two colorless mana and reads: you can't play lands.
>A Lion's Eye Diamond that produces three colorless mana.
That plus Itlimoc covers 80% of the proven Legacy decks leaving only fringe cards like CoM, Moat, Nether Void, Sanctum, and Tabernacle so that Lands can continue to be "The most expensive deck (tm)".

i feel personally attacked from this image

The secondary market shoulders a lot of shit for Wizards and does it for free. It's simply more cost effective for them to let this massive pile of stores to do all their shit for them. This includes D&D too.

I'm sure this list isn't comprehensive but this is what the stores do for Wizards:
- teaching new players
- giving them a place to play
- hosting events
- putting the burden on the store owner to recruit players to keep the business running
- is ground-zero for tribal-like faggotry like color wars, format wars, and any other argumentative bullshit players want to engage in
- having each store police each other for conduct
- having each store create competition for each other by trying to one-up the experience

Places like Reddit do it for free. And sites like SCG or CFB harness the celebrity-worship of the community to do the job more effectively.

Consider a company like Games Workshop shouldering vertically integrating their supply chain down to the store level. They manage their own hobby store dedicated entirely to their own product and have standardized everything about their game AND enforce it; think about how much more work that is and how Wizards avoids it by having their stores do all the work for them. They just have some service rep sitting at a desk all day giving a scripted general advice to all the stores for conduct; they answer questions but it isn't their job to make sure the policies are enforced; they only step in when it's a PR (i.e. Reddit) problem.

Wizards would be stupid to make a direct move to disrupt the secondary market; but that won't fucking stop them from indirectly doing it because the players are too stupid to see it.

>Cars aren't expensive, the functionality they provide

Stopped reading.

You're a salty poorfag.

OG baseball cards and stamps are worth a lot of money and are objectively useless.

They should just release a physical version of the MtG:O Vintage cube with purple borders and a special back. That would be fun as a self-contained MtG 25th anniversary item. It would feel like old World decks playing with such powerful decks.

Cars aren't.
If you want to pull this stupid analogy compare magic to other useless shit people sometimes sell to get out of a stink without involving the IRS, like jewelry.

You were the one pulling stupid analogies my dude.

At least mine is correct.

Ancient tomb isn't on the list, they could reprint it

The game feels too much like a scam now. For 10 years they were putting out nice supplemental product and now all of a sudden everything is shit. Then they go full throttle on the mythic uncommons like Fatal Push, which are way more rare than any given mythic rare. Fuck this game. Been playing since Fallen Empires, but I feel like WotC doesn't want my money. I own close to ten grand in reserved list cards, but I don't feel good about that at all. I'd rather the game be more accessible.

I think board games made me hate the whole "economy" side of TCGs.

If you value accessability, then sell your RL cards for cheap.

What if they made cards slightly better than Reserved List stuff by tacking on an extra useless ability that will almost never come up, so it doesn't matter anymore? Like if they wanted to repring Thunder Thunder spirit, how about they just make a 2/2 Flying First strike 2/2 with "T:Return target Beeble to its owner's hand"
Or reprint Juzam Djinn, but as an Efreet with "When this enters that battlefield If your opponent controls a card named 'King Suleiman', destroy King Suleiman and that player loses the game"
or if you wanted to reprint City of Traitors you could add "you don't have to sacrifice this when you play another land if you control 3 or more Kavu"

That shit won't come up 90% of the time unless you specifically build your deck to do so, so it's basically the same thing but technically not.

>As far as recent products go
The current special product is Merfolk vs. Goblins, and it is well worth the price for casual players. There are a lot of cards inside that make big strides toward the total value of the product, like Krenko and Reejerey. I understand your frustration that these cards don't mesh with the 2-turn combo-riffic cut-and-paste atmosphere of the last 5 metas, but these products are fun diversions for players to sink their teeth into. Yes, "fun," a term that invokes perilous associations in tournament players. The same people that hated Lorwyn and Shadowmoor blocks because they offered something to many tribes, and incidentally, Merfolk were the answer to the dominant Faeries. The decks are well-matched and as a 120-card product, designed to enable games of at least 6 turns so that most of the cards purchased can see play in a best-of-three match.

>The aftermarket
The reason Wizards refrains from upsetting the aftermarket too much is that a lot of high-value consumers are anchored in the game by the promise of a stable aftermarket. Releasing a hundred dollar card twice sends the message that they're comfortable with devaluing the collections of big buyers to make a quick buck. For example, Modern Masters halved Tarmogoyf's value even with a higher price, fewer packs per box, and a limited release. For another example, look at what Base Set 2 did to Pokemon's active community, many of whom got into the game when they first heard about the upward trajectory in value for a foil Charizard. For this reason, Wizards uses the unique contents of new blocks to draw in players focused on the aftermarket, and uses special products like Duel Decks and From the Vault for people who actually enjoy playing the game.

Why the fuck does nobody ever remember that MM1’s MSRP was lower and had to be raised specifically because people were buying out and hoarding the product?

I'd buy that in a heartbeat over having to resort to chinamen to build a vintage/legacy cube

How many legacy decks played on big events are actually loaded with chinamen fakes? Don't kid yourselves, WotC isn't the one keeping that format alive

People who want to play in sanctioned events without caring about card value are finding more and more ways to do it. Each and every day it's more noticeable, not just for legacy, but for modern too

Have you even checked the deck lists? They may be well priced but are incredibly boring and generic compared to another U vs R decks like Jace vs Chandra, making it pretty low quality.

What do you mean by boring? It's a tribal pack full of shenanigans. A lot of casual players enjoy Tribal and find a tournament full of identical combo decks boring. This set gives an option to play two well-built archetypes that differ strongly from what they're accustomed to.

I mean... If you consider that boring, what cards do you consider interesting? Give me some examples.

>Thunder Spirit
See Aerial Responder

>Juzam Djinn
See Plague Sliver. Same thing as Juzam but murders opposing Sliver decks.

This, RL is done for with the shit cards (Aboreth for example) or Thundr/Juzam Djinn

I'm sure your cardboard can carry your fat ass cross country,

Stompy decks play Ancient Tomb AND City of Traitors and can't function without either, but don't require more than 8 Sol Lands. If they made a semi-functional CoT, Eldrazi would be the cheapest Tier 1 Legacy deck.

They've done this with a few things like fork->reverberate and Mirror Universe->Axis of Mortality

They have printed plenty of cards better than RL cards. Aboroth, Aeolipile, Aku Djinn, Anvil of Bogardan, Argivian Archaeologist, Argothian Wurm, Braingeyser, Bubble Matrix, Catacomb Dragon, Citanul Centaurs, Corpse Dance, Cursed Scroll, Diamond Valley, Ertai, Wizard Adept, Eureka, Exalted Dragon, Grim Monolith, Juzám Djinn, Khabál Ghoul, Koskun Falls, Lake of the Dead, Lich, Mind Over Matter, Morphling, Natural Selection, Phyrexian Negator, Powder Keg, Shallow Grave, Spirit of the Night, Word of Command and Yawgmoth's Will are all cards that used to be Vintage/Legacy/Extended staples but were replaced by cards that fulfilled their intended niche much better, sometimes more than once.

90% of cards in the RL are unplayable shit. If they gave us the fucking Legendary Dual Lands already nobody but combo and stompy players would give a damn about the list anymore.

Giving everyone access to a one-of dual won't fix these dead formats.

The tournament scene is dead and potential new players are being murdered by Hearthstone.

What woman wants to go to a smelly comic book store to push cardboard around when her iphone lets her push cute pictures which have voice acting around?

There's always Crystal Vein as a replacement for Traitors.

Women are a meme, fucking " duel commander" events gather 100+ players. Legendary Duals would let 30% of the Modern playerbase play either Delver or Deathblade at 90% effectiveness which means 300+ player events. After all the largest non-GP Vegas event ever was a Legacy GP

>Legendary Dual Lands
Fuckin brilliant.

Its strictly worse than original duals but still useful and fetchable with fetchlands.

if you could get women playing magic you'd double the population but ok

also french commander is fucking shit

Do you really want women en masse coming into the hobby?

Do you really?

>Do you really want women en masse coming into the hobby?

Magic isn't a hobby, it's a game

>Magic isn't a hobby, it's a game

>Being this pedantic.

Well what IS a hobby then?

Dictating what Magic is and isn't is a job for faggits who whine about the Reserved List.

Enjoying the hobby is for those who have been here for 20+ years and don't want a bunch of whiners conjuring up cards for themselves that have been in the hands of True Hobbyists for decades.

They're not gonna touch your pee pee just because they'd be disquialified for voicing how much you disgust them.

>Not gonna lie I liked Rudy until he said the reserved list should be expanded.

100% this

My lotus could.

Women don't have hobbies.

Warhammer isn't a hobby it's a game

T.Grey Hoarder's.

whats 1st? poker?

desu, they did put Jitte in a PCD once. Hilarity ensued.

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