Weekend Warcraft Lore General

I will totally honestly say you're right, Vanilla did have the right idea.

Just sorta uh...all fell apart, Cata should have been WoW 2 over another expac.

Threadly reminder.

Stormwind should've been this super unstable kingdom made up of every human nation except Gilneas and Kul Tiras where any of the surviving nobles were being complete dicks to each other in order to have their daughters married to Anduin. Everything else was fine with the Horde fighting to find their place in the world and the other Alliance races fighting off any rogue armies coming their way or trying to stabilize the regions under their rule with everything else being wild lands controlled by pirates/bandits, undead, etc.

>Well Kul Tiras is a nation of fishermen, merchants, explorers, monster hunters and ship builders so I'd say Blizz did a good job in making them unique.
>Gilneas had the merchant and Victorian England vibe to it and prior to WoW they were big on exploration.
>Stromgarde was said to be a highly martial nation but I would've gone further and said that the kingdom had a clan based society to it with ancestoral worship mixed into it.
>Lordaeron was said to be the most religious out of all of the kingdoms so maybe have them be like the Byzantines.
>Stormwind was said to be looked down upon by the other nations. So maybe have the isolationist vibe to them. There's dangers all around their kingdom so they share the martial aspect of Stromgarde but instead had a more professional approach to their army.
>Alterac was formed from an old fortress back during the Troll Wars so mountaineering would be a big aspect. Maybe have them be like the Swiss are today. Neutral in all regards with human politics and people like giving them their gold for safe keeping. Though invading their lands would be a huge nightmare.

EvE Online?

Eve is the best example of the ideal "core" MMO. Needs the personal RPG customization fluff, the medieval themes, etc. though to really be appealing.

For me, Eve is a similar to DF. A game who has some really great concepts but has stuff that hold it back. If you were to take these concepts and give it a nice polish and some mass-market appeal, you can get an incedible game.

I kinda want to do a EvE Online style MMO in a Age of Sigmar-like setting.

I would have 4 empires in a state of internal and external cold war. Each empire has internal factions that compete with each other, and each empire is playing these internal strifes against each other. But no open conflict.

This depiction of Stormwind always bugged me, it makes little logical sense from a "real" standpoint, if it were a medieval city.

Maybe that is partially why they want to retake Lordaeron and offload Lordaeronians back home.

Nah, that would make too much sense. I doubt that the current Blizz team even thought of such a point.

Why? Zurich looks pretty much like this except with bigger houses and no walls. What's a "real" medieval city? 12th century London?

I would have thought it to be bit more compact, and located to the right where you have the flat land instead of sprawled over a cliff facing the sea.

Fuck thrall and fuck green people

lordaeron belongs to the undead now :---)

you know, the ones who slaughtered its last army and purposefully hunted down, tortured and genocided its citizens then invaded all the neighboring human kingdoms simultenously.

You were saying?

Blizzard keeps saying it. Also, sylvie can do no wrong because he is wyfoo uguu

It would have popped up wherever the port did, ostensibly. One of the pitfalls of organic city development.

If the legion had space ships all along, why didn't they just fly to azeroth

>Also, sylvie can do no wrong

Post canon autists.

That's going to be a long list, user.

What's the best starting zone to get immersed into and have a fun questing time on a pre-Cata private server?[/spoiler[

Barrens/Westfall

Both will give you a good vision of what their faction was like before thing got railroaded. While I can't get behind humans as Alliance as orcs as Horde, both are staples so you might as well do their big zones.

Tirion's quest chain is also good as well as the Alliance exclusive Onyxia one, I prefer Horde, but in general, Alliance had better quests in vanilla/pre-Cata.

Unless you really want to look for Mankrik's wife again.

Elwynn/Westfall/Redridge/Duskwood/Stormwind had a very cohesive, interconnected story. If you pay attention, you really get a feel for how the majority of the problems in those areas tie in to the Onyxia conspiracy. I honestly think it's some of the best storytelling done in MMOs.

Also some really great side stories in Duskwood, like the Legend of Stalvan, or helping out the old hermit.

That's hot.

this is why i always wanted to find a way to introduces NElves in TES, i've discussed about this on /tgesg/ es reddit once, they work as a mer race who instead of following the path of the other 5, they decided to worship Kynareth and she blessed them, though druids and hunters worships Hircine, and kyne already works as the Local Elune of Elder Scrolls.

Said undead who wants to die and find peace since Arthas death, but who can't do this because the local Old god Worshiper doesn't want to give them freedom due to the fear of herself being thrown into Warcraft's Soul Cairn, which is nothing but a plain joke made by them to force her into their bidding

also this one triggered the sylvanas fanboys on the story forums

>Sylvanas and the Banshee queen aren't the same person, Sylvanas died with Silvermoon, The Banshee Queen died twice, and the 1st time she heard the voices and the void
>ITS NO SHE DIED 3 TIMES FUCK U, SHE NOT TRAITOR, WAIFU IS GOOD

>which is nothing but a plain joke made by them to force her into their bidding

Where is this confirmed? I understand being tricked when being killed on a saronite spike but she felt the same when she got killed again in Gilneas.

...

Saronite itself its tainted with old god's lies, illusions and heresy. the reason of why DK's weren't affected is because they were already controlled by arthas, also they have a lot of mental resistance, Mindless undead are free too because they heard only the whispers of the LK or their master, lich's are consistent enough to notice what is void magic, thus they ignore its whispers.

In sylvanas case, she had none of it, you can pretty much assume that she's hearing their whispers since then and hiding from everyone, but is fighting against their control, but now that she ran out of options to come back to life or create more valkyr to escape said fate...

also we killed Arthas with a Saronite made weapon, remember when he said "i see only darkness before me?" yeah, we pretty much delivered him to Yogg in the afterlife, andhe's now being tortured on the real Shadow realm

That's not even the superior version.

I don't want to get banned, user.

So Sylvanas is the Illusive Man if the Illusive Man was always a cunt?

Possibly. That user makes one big assumption, though: Blizzard's thought process going any deeper than "You know what would be really cool? Having an Old God metal that whispers to you."

It's the big hurdle most fan theories run into.

[F] for Zul'jin
he was the best

So will losing the Artifacts be a step down for Player Characters in terms of power, effectively 'depowering' them?
Will this mean that Shamans have no personal power again and will have to beg the Elements to 'cast' even the simplest of 'spells'?

I fucking tried, you got a source for that one?

So wait, are Dks permanently immune to Old God shenanigans? Or just were immune during being controlled?

On the game this is mostly because budget issues...

But there is basis for regional diversity, for example, the human kingdons have different cultures, the orcish clans too...

The clans were barely touched on WOW until WOD and humans kingdons were mostly destroyed or abscence but now we will have Gilneas and KulTiras...

> Vanilla had it right, every playable race was a wrecked remnant, their leadership unstable, their alliances shaky, their lands rife with problems and full of uprisings and encroaching enemies. Everything outside starter zones were wildlands full of neutral factions, tribals, pirates, savages, cultists and in some cases up and coming new factions like the dark irons. You started out as a lowly militiaman/grunt/freshly raised corpse trying to restore some semblance of order.

Yeah, the whole point of Vanilla is that the world is shit and it will not be fixed anytime soon... And that why we had roots to imply politics and a interesting setting, poltitics exist because there is no easy way to fix or rule a Kingdom, but Cata comes and now both factions could pull a entire and endless army from their asses something that could easy fix almost all the world issues... Who fucking cares about Defias Brotherhood or Quilboards with all that military power?

Didn't WoD establish that both armies are using Deathknights actively and on the frontlines?
What are the odds that this is brought up in BfA/shown in a cinematic in BfA?

From the moment Arthas arrived at Northend he was the pawn of the Old Gods

Shamans control the elements anyway...

Magic is all about using your mind and will to connect with the power and use it...

most Shamans honor the elements and are greateful for this conection, but the fact that Dark Shaman exists, bend the elements to their will and have the same or better control exactly like the other Shamans imply that the Shaman will is stronger that the power he uses...

I was under the impression that the Shamans ask the Elements for help, which they can be denied for any or even no reason, leaving him totally powerless.
The idea being that it's a semi-symbiotic relationship: the Elements give the Shaman power to affect change, the Shaman provides non-idiocy to keep them from killing each other.
Which is dumb for a Player Class and I hate it. I feel that all Player Classes should not have their ability to be able to actually do stuff in the world to be in danger of being arbitrarily [lorewise] taken away from them by beings or reasons outside of their control. Especially by notoriously chaotic and fickle beings like the Elementals. Great class for NPCs though

I wonder if Lordaeron had the spooky haunted house aesthetic before everyone there became undead, or if the Forsaken just decided to rebuild everything that way after the fact as a joke.

The Taunka have an entire society built around forcing the elements to get their ass in gear and help the tribe. Troll shaman tend to be more like witch doctors, forming pacts with wild spirits.

The nice forms of shamanism are more of an orc/tauren/draenei thing.

After the fact. Before the cata revamp they just lived in dilapidated human buildings a la Darkshire.

Doesn't forcing the Elements to your will generally have nasty side effects though?

And it's still drawing power from another being, rather than from an energy source or from within Which I still despise for a Player Class

I thought MoP and WoD showed also that forcing the Elements to do anything is only ever a very very temporary thing, and that it very quickly bites you back hard?

I wish we could get a satisfying ending to Gilneas's story one of these days. At the very least maybe advance it a little bit.

here, meant to add that I appreciate the info user, Shaman lore seems super inconsistent. Even when compared to the state of general WoW lore.

IIRC forcing the spirits to your bidding sort of "breaks" them, crippling their power and making them more lifeless automatons. Not sure though, I'm not super caught up on Shaman lore.

Thanks user.

Honestly I'm mostly just annoyed that I want to be able to like to play Shamans, but can't get over that they're the only Player Class to be able to be depowered to nothing [lorewise] at any moment and for no reason. Even Priests and Paladins can keep going if they just believe in what they're doing hard enough. Arguably making Player Power Progression [lorewise] a pointless endeavor, since it's not really YOUR power you're getting stronger with/in.

I mean it's not really any more fickle than the Light. Like the Wind isn't just going to leave you hanging if you have a moment of
>oh shit did I just do a bad?

You gotta fuck up seriously bad to get the elements to ditch you.

It's in BfA.

>Arguably making Player Power Progression [lorewise] a pointless endeavor, since it's not really YOUR power you're getting stronger with/in.

i figure you're increasing your ability to control the raw power the elements give you, and drawing more power from more spirits.

i also don't think there's much chance of being left powerless because shamans draw power from so many spirits, elemental or otherwise. they're literally everywhere and you're a master at getting them to fall in line. you're not taking power from one entity who can just turn off the spigot.

Has that been confirmed or are we going to get another meaningless battleground?

Fair enough, thanks guys.

Although I'm still a bit iffy on the reliance of the goodwill of other beings to grant power, especially with all of the planet/dimension/shattered world hopping we've been doing lately.

And honestly my biggest issue is that there is another hand on the spigot at all. I mean, it's a cool idea for class, but personally I would have had it more for an NPC class and have a similar-but-not-quite-the-same for a player class. Maybe one that has a similar relationship to the Elements a Shaman does, but instead draws power directly from the same source the Elements do. Or something.

It's petty, I know. I love Shamans, but they're just in such a weird place in the lore now.

It's confirmed.

Is it going to be the new capital city for Worgen?

The Shaman control elements, he become one with nature and nature become one with him. Like the warg thing on Game Of Thrones but more about symbiosis and less about blatant possession. The Shaman will become the elemental will. Shamans recognises the power and gradiosity of nature (because they feel it duh) and thats why they praise the elements but the "asking" part is questionable, Dark Shamans dont ask about anything and do the same exact shit.

So its all about the Shaman experience (capacity) to harness all that power. Like in real life there is magic based on the concept of feeling one with nature (like wicca and most shamans in game) and forcing your will on something (Goetia, Dark Shamans in game).

If the shaman cannot link himself with the elements it is because his mind its not connecting with the element.

So basically will power and experience is essential, that is probably why Thrall is sucking so much lately, probably related to his grief on killing Garrosh... he lost his will, he do not think himself as worth of all that grandiosity.

"elements" is actually a broad term and may refer to nature, life and death and astral itself, I am not sure when things started to be so focused on the four elements on the game but this is mostly because the game already have Druids to handle the nature theme and they obviously wanted to have classes with different themes and flavors... so Healing wave become "magic water''...

on the books we have a better description of Thrall handling the elements, I did not read all of them (just the one where Jaina get bomb-dumped from Theramore) but what I have read so far matches with this concept.

Forcing demons is far worse but Warlocks make them theit bitchs on legion anyway...

Its all about the will and power of the magic user, if he is strong enough then fuck the police..

It would be nice to have Azshara and Gilneas as a proper cities... We could sail from them...but who knows if blizzard even care..

>How would you distinguish any of these?
Blizzard's been pretty good about giving them aesthetic variety lately. Gilneas and Kul Tiras obviously have their own style, the Stormwind-style buildings look pretty good nowadays, Dalaran always looked amazing, and Lordaeron's capital is/was a tangle of towers, domes, and arches, at least in the cinematics. I justify the "standard human architecture" as being function-over-form templates for easier construction during the Second War, with Stormwind City being rebuilt in a better version of that style.

But culturally?

>I'd assumed that if we ever saw Kul Tiras, they'd have an Italian influence, or a Venetian one. What with the wine and the trade/naval power and the ruler that's not a king but certainly acts like it and all. Turns out I was wrong.
>Stormwind seemed like a sunny kingdom before the Orcs tore though it, literally and metaphorically, if that makes sense. Wide brimmed hats and large crop yields, a large military force supported by a strong economy. Hell, besides the odd Troll incursion and Gnoll War, did they have any threats their legendarily good knights couldn't handle? Before the First War the place has (been retconned to have) lots of flavor. But if you'll pardon my bullshit for a moment, the sort of vaguely confederal distant rule of Stormwind, the local governments and elected officials, it being a distant colony that ended up pretty strong...Honestly, it feels like Stormwind is Fantasy Kingdom America. It would explain the accent.
>Alterac strikes me as extremely Swiss in a lot of ways. Give those fuckers some Pikemen.
>Stromgarde seems like a place that would've been a superpower if the land wasn't weakly fertile. They've got the spirit and the discipline, just not the numbers or the supplies. I can see Stromgarde city being a massive and glorious fortified city, but the rest of the kingdom being impoverished and possibly even tribal in the highest parts of the highlands.

>losing the artifacts
This one kind of pisses me off, especially after they introduced Transmogrification. Like, fuck, I'm kind of attached to the damn thing now, but I can't have it any more because reasons.

I thought they got rid of that in like cata

elves have always been the true enemies of Azeroth #GarithosDidNothingWrong

>introduces NElves in TES
I’ve seen this posted before and as I’ve said. None of the elder scrolls races would welcome them, and without an emerald dream druids wouldn’t exist. If Nelves were in Tamriel, the most likely outcome is that they’d mix with Bosmer and eventually get out fucked, and all we’d have is slightly purple, slightly taller bosmer

>removing Artifacts

So wait. I haven't played Legion yet but they're taking away the special weapons each class gets? Like the Doomhammer, Ashbringer, etc.?

Has Blizzard given a reason for that, and how's it going to work?

"You don't own nothing adventurer." Also demotion from being class order lead and dismissal of recruited champions?

>>Alterac was formed from an old fortress back during the Troll Wars so mountaineering would be a big aspect. Maybe have them be like the Swiss are today. Neutral in all regards with human politics and people like giving them their gold for safe keeping. Though invading their lands would be a huge nightmare.
It bugs me that Alterac is blunty called the "weakest" of the human kingdoms simply because it's the smallest. Sure, it may also have the smallest military, but Alterac also has, by far, the best natural protection. Plus, the Alteraci are presumably one of the hardier cultures considering the colder climate they live in.

Like to imagine they're well off in regards to trade, too, because of the centralized location.

How would you rate Golden's books on the Grand Scale of Schlocky Fantasy I Can Read On The Crapper While Learning New Facts About My Favourite Games?

They probably do well in terms of tolls, but i'd be willing to bet that was one of the sticking points between them and Stromgarde. The Trollbanes probably didn't appreciate having to pay middlemen to get their hands on goods.

People always try to role play with accents. Gilneas have British cockney accents, so the other human kingdoms must have something them as well?

Most treat Alterac as German people, but I would think them more Russian with their cold mountain kingdom. Even if they sound similar to Draenei.

Kul Trias would probably have Spanish accents, being the leading naval power.

>Dalaran sandwiched within Lordaeron except that tiny part bordering Gilneas
>Northeron between Alterac and Stromgarde, far from Khaz Modan
>Gnomeregan with all of that coastline going unused
>who was in all of that territory right before the Horde? Surely they hadn't overrun that much human land before the war even started
>Booty Bay so tiny, Cape of Stranglethorn otherwise empty
>Dark Irons with so little actual land, less than Gnomeregan and Dalaran
>Gilneas looks like someone ripped the side trying to pick it up

I am thinking about doing a very story heavy, very hammy Warcraft based campaign in Fate Accelerated. Do you think this is a horrible idea?
Is this even the right thread to ask?

>who was in all of that territory right before the Horde? Surely they hadn't overrun that much human land before the war even started

IIRC most of that land is pretty hostile to human life

Was it Gnolls then? Gnolls live just about anywhere, right?

I ran something similiar with my guild a few days before Legions release, though I used Fate Core instead. Was quite the blast, all my guildies played the characters they wanted to main for the expansion. The small campaign had them go against the Steamwheedle Cartel and save their friend who was hated by all Goblins in Azeroth because he grinded reputation with the Bloodsail Buccaneers.

Fate proved to be pretty fun and it was easily to learn for my mates who never roleplayed before

trolls -> gnolls -> dark irons from south to north from the dark portal

Probably Gnolls, Murlocs; likely Trolls to some extent also, considering they have a temple in the Swamp of Sorrows.

Generally, I think they were just avoided because those areas were humid, thick jungles and swamps, and thus just not really worth much interest to Stormwind aside from maybe a few scattered human settlements.

It’s mostly swamp lands. Black Morass, the swamp of sorrows, and parts of redridge leading to the burning stepps, which caught fire from ragnaros.

Kinda hard to live there.

I feel like giving Alteraci Italian or Swiss accents would work as well.

I like the idea of Stromgarde having Scottish accents.

hell, give 'em different languages

Their ships didn't have ftl.

Common is probably just some hodgepodge of the old language of Arathor and the modern Lordaeron dialect with some Thalassian and Dwarven terms mixed in, anyways.

They needed a door.

Seems like they only whip out the ships when they're really pissed. Plus, portals and summoning are probably faster.

Speaking of shamans and elements. How does Arcane mages use fire, ice and other elements. How come arcane mages don't use electricity or earthquakes and stuff?

mechanical limitations to not make mages overpowered.
In-game, I believe that these are the areas of study the Kirin Tor deemed safe and were thus studied the most. Fire magic is mentioned to have been suspicious because of it possible ties with Fel

Mages use Arcane energy to manipulate temperature, which is why they can have control over fire and ice.

But there are arcane magic users that use earth and lightning. Nagas use arcane magic to shoot lightning bolts and ogre magi use arcane to do earth quakes and rock throws

I assumed that it wasn't actual elemental fire they sling around, but normal fire conjured up by using Arcane magic to create the fuel and spark, and to give it enough form and force to hit something as a coherent fireball.