Let's talk about WFRP 4e, which is being developed by Cubicle 7, the same developers who created The One Ring

hmmm that dice systems looks fun amd represents what a real fight would "look like"

what's the problem with it? as long as fights last about as long as you like it shouldnt really be that different

wfrp1e.wikia.com/wiki/Table_Of_Contents

Basically a clunkier version of 2e with old school rules like magic points. Still i fucking love it more than newer editions with the burning passion of 1 million exploding suns

>what's the problem with it? as long as fights last about as long as you like it shouldnt really be that different
Because it's boring.

So, in people's opinion, is high failure rate a bug or a feature in WFRP? I get that they wanted to have their stat numbers match up with the wargame, but at the same time, it means that your average person has a laughably shitty chance to succeed at anything.

In your opinion, does this work for the game or should it be fixed? Is WFRP ultimately a game of dark comedy where a bumbling band of fools just can't pull through at the crucial moment, or should you actually have decent chances at success?

>Literally trying to just recreate the shit heap that was the last WFRP thread

Zweihander is pretty good op don't try to just make bait threads every week

oh well i dont role play so i wouldnt know Satan. seems like it would make combat more fast paced and smooth since you arent adding and subtracting hp with every single roll and it would make combat more dangerous and risky, which could also make it more exciting

You are subtracting hp though. It's just that there's a chance to cause a huge crit. If the crit doesn't happen, most of the fight is slowly whittling away hit points (called "wounds") until someone falls down dead.

Combine with abysmal chances to succeed at combat actions, such as hitting someone, and you've got a system that's as far away from fast paced and smooth as physically possible.

Sure, can I see anything on 4e?

You haven't played the system.

1e is simpler, grimmer, unbridled oldschool fun.
2e made some fixes, but mostly just fabricated crunch and called it streamlining. They also took an axe to the setting.

>They also took an axe to the setting.
That's not exactly fair. There were 20 years between the editions and Warhammer had changed a lot in that time. It's not like they just decided to change it all on a whim.

They also had the issue of needing to follow GW's dumb Storm of Chaos shit. Corporate fucking up the setting, not Green Ronin.

I don't think I've ever played a WFRP game that wasn't at least a 50/50 mix of problems solving or investigation and combat, with the combats usually being swift and brutal.

That seems to be the strength of it, while playable I'm guessing it's not the best combat system for full on hack'n'slash.

The problem is that the whiff factor makes the swift and brutal fights not so swift. You can die in a few hits but you'll stand there swinging at each other for a few minutes beforehand.

Dark Heresy 2 has a better, albeit likewise flawed, combat system.

Percentile systems all seem to have this weird problem where your character is either absolutely shit at doing things or is basically assured to succeed.

I'm not sure what it is, but I've never seen a percentile system that didn't feel like a mess in that regard. On the surface, it seems like the easiest thing to do; ultimately everything boils down to having a certain percent chance to succeed. And yet, a lot of systems feel smoother than the ones that directly use percentiles.

Slayer should not be a career but rather a choice of life that the GM must present you with.
Shieldbreaker>veteran >champion or shieldbreaker>runebearer>veteran>champion is the career path you want to be literally unstoppable

That's VERY old art.
Slayers forsake any kind of armor or protection because they want to die. Anything preventing that is cowardice and shame

Storm of chaos is not even bad. Only memesters think that. It has flaws, but is all in all a good story

This just in: WFRP career paths are kind of weird and don't make that much sense if you start looking at them too closely.

I mean, sure, the starting careers as such are good flavor and all, but when you actually start advancing careers, it quickly stops making any kind of sense unless you're literally playing a campaign of social and economical advancement instead of the usual stuff.

>banned from RPG.net
We should praise him then.

You just need a fluff reason to do it. Just work with your GM dude it's not that hard

He was banned for entering unrelated threads to shill his own game despite several warnings, and for creating an "April Fool's" post where the punchline was "buy my game". So he actually got banned for being too shilly for shill central.

I think OP is Daniel Fox trying to bring attention to his game again.

Still contributes to the general decay of that site which is good.

There was an article I read about 1e where the original Career system was supposed to be used as a starting off point for the characters being thrown into a life of adventure with a different advancement system but the game was rushed out which left us with the career path system we have today

>Why do that when the masterpiece that was 1e is available to the plebs again?

This. Had a chaos champion that would shred anything in combat, legs fused into a single fused hoof, then rolled that he got take one hop forward 2 hops back . Ended up being pushed by two beastmen in a wheel barrow till I spawned out.

I guess in universe it has to be seen more as "chance to land a significant hit", your "misses" will include glancing/grazing.

In that respect I don't think it works too badly. A trained swordsman will more likely than not run a person through in one or two attempts, meanwhile a rat catcher is just flailing his stick in the air hoping not to get hurt and for a group of untrained fighters the dog-pile is king.

It might make sense, but so might flipping a coin, given right context and justification.

Won't change the fact it feels like shit and makes for an unsatisfying game.

I think my biggest issue is that even trained fighters have fairly low skill ratings. If you look at something like Runequest, a character built for combat can come out of chargen with 60+ in their weapon skill, while an untrained pleb will be like 15-30. Characters still die in a couple hits, but people feel less completely incompetent. It also helps that most attacks in RQ are contested, and something happens to advance the fight even on a successful defense due to the combat effects system.

To be fair it poked endless fun at GM’a expense well before the announcement of Age of Sigmar RPG by C7. Reads like a /chan post: UK games publisher Games Workshop has not forged a partnership agreement with Grim & Perilous Studios, makers of the wildly-successful ZWEIHÄNDER Grim & Perilous RPG. They have not announced their intention to release a tabletop roleplaying game called The Age of Sigmar: The RPG.Planescape Lite…err, The Age of Sigmar: The RPG players take upon the roles of the venerated Stormblast Immortals and allies of the Truly Immortal Spheres to combat the Neverchosen and the lords of Dogtown. Become one with the Ultra Alliance; enjoy playing the heroically-proportioned and predominantly male Superultrahypermarines, agents of the alt-right in a never-ending battle to defeat all that was loved about the Old World. Become one with the A-e-i-o-u-and-sometimes-y-lves, becoming either an louche and supercilious dendrophile or an edgy, dismissing Dork Elf. Bro’ out with Uncle Siggy’s mohawk-headed stepchildren, the Dwarven Steamhead Fig Newtonslayers: walking Scottish anachronisms who wear little more than a loincloth because in the far-flung future of fantasy SPAAAAACE!, there is little room for modesty and METAL reigns supreme. Work is now underway on the core set for The Age of Sigmar: The RPG, which introduces the characters and setting as it establishes core rules and themes. It launches on Kickstarter on April 1st. All products in the series will run using Pogs, first launched in the 17th century by Japanese tabletop gamers tired of Shogi and later popularized in the 90’s by American game makers. Use your Stormblast Slammer to eradicate the farces of Chaos.

This. Zweihander is a pretty fine rp. The OP is just upset because he can’t get the Zweihander pdf from the trove anymore.

The problem with wfrp 4e is that we won’t get any new material for a few years. We will get QuickStart rules this year, a core book next year and will have to wait forever for new stuff. This is the real problem. Why do I need 4e when I have Waepstone, a dearth of other fan material , wfrp 1 and 2nd and zweilander to fill in the gaps?

Neck yourself.

I wonder if it will borrow mechanics from Cubicle 7's other games. I really like The One Ring. It is easily the best LotR RPG on the market IMO, and this is from someone who started RPGs with MERP.

>OP spends more screenspace talking about another game than the game he wants to talk about

We all know what this thread is going to be about.

Suppose to cover ground from 1e and 2e according to Cubicle 7. Travel rules would be cool from One Ring. But that’s already been done by the game-that-shall-not-be-named.

Yup.

So when is 4e coming out? Cubicle 7 said it would be released "later in the year" and well, the year will be over in less than 2 months.

As someone who's never played WFRP, why do you guys not mention 3e? Is it bad?

See? Bless.

Quick start is supposed to come out via
Pdf this year. Zweihander’s dev was talking about it in google+ the other day.

>Is it bad?
It's worse than bad. It's a jewish operation whose only goal is making players spend a shit-ton of money on physical items for role-playing, while simultaneously shitting over everything that makes WFRP so unique and interesting.

I liked 3e dice mechanic, but the cards and other fiddly bits sucked a bag of d’s.

any source on that?

I think that contested and something happening even if you fail part is probably the most important thing.

I'd be putting a trained WFRP fighter around WS 40 - 50 maybe with 2 attacks. So with the +10 from charging or aiming, or 2 attacks from swift attack, or +20 from all out attack you get between 50% and 75% chance of hitting per turn which doesn't seem too bad.

If you get unlucky for a turn or three though things start feeling really shitty.

More like it's hard to play without the many proprietary components that came with it. It's not too far removed from a board game. Thankfully 4e is ditching that and going on the right track.

Back to your hole!
Also, it's not like the pdf thread has a person you can email for the files.

>>hamfistedly shoving narrative elements into the game without understanding why they do or don't work
Please tell us more about what you think why they do or don't work, faggot OP.

>what you think why they do or don't work
Holy fuck, learn the Queen's English before coming on our board.

>Percentile systems all seem to have this weird problem where your character is either absolutely shit at doing things or is basically assured to succeed.
Bullshit.

>I'm not sure what it is, but I've never seen a percentile system that didn't feel like a mess in that regard.
CoC or Harnmaster. Also Rogue Trader. Or mid-level Dark Heresy.

It would be like this if the GM didn't intervene by giving heavy modifiers, as it should be. All depends on what's going on: it's hard to be in a situation in which you don't have modifiers.

Google+ He also broke news on C7’s announcement of Wfrp 4e before C7 made it official. But that’s because Zweihander spoke with GW to buy the license. He seems to know the GW legal dept pretty well as he’s broke a ton of news in advance.

>imblyin'

[email protected]

Or [email protected] if you ask nicely. Hi OP!

56%

Oh fuck off.

Has there been any indication of the system so far? I'm getting nervous about games I like being revamped after what happened to L5R.

I hope Daniel does actually troll these threads. It'd be hilarious.

Hi Daniel, I bought your book, the spine fell out after a month.

Not Daniel orami?

Pic?

Facebook /mformoniker

I'm sorry that people ignored your question.

is hackmaster any good?

So seeing the discussion about combat feeling kinda shitty cause you miss so much in WFRP I decided to go and remind myself of the 1st edition rules as I'm mostly familiar with 2nd even though I started with 1st.

It is kinda interesting.

A 1st edition character wanting to focus on melee can be throwing out two 40-50% hit attacks per round after just two advances.

After a Career and a half (10-12 advances) you can be sitting as an Assassin with 4 attacks at WS 60-70, Free Lance with 3 attacks WS 60-70, or a Judicial Champion 3 attacks WS 70-80.

First edition core rules doesn't have modifiers for outnumbering or "all out attack" but those fall under the "other actions you can suggest to the GM" description.

Then you have +10% to hit if you are winning the fight or have favourable ground.

On top of all this the Parry action is a bit more interactive too. Instead of a Parry just stopping an attack dead it reduces the incoming attacks damage by D6.

I'm kind of hoping they capture higher level gameplay better than 2E. It seemed like 2E was allergic to even the concept of allowing your party to approach battlefield level heroes. Let alone, God forbid, playing as one. There are so many warnings in the text to the effect of, "If you allow this your game will literally explode into an orgy of failure as you regret your life decisions!" Hell, they even put in a warning about playing as a low level ogre!

>Percentile systems all seem to have this weird problem where your character is either absolutely shit at doing things or is basically assured to succeed.
It's because they add a shitton of granularity, in order to simulate "realism", to a combat system that is originally incredibly abstract. (i.e. D&D)
That's why there's a whiff factor, because roughly 80 to 88 of those 100 dice resolutions are unecessary for resolution purposes.

>ZWIEHANDER is the shittiest WFRP 2e retroclone on the market. Its developer is an autistic cunt whose accomplishments include:

You forgot: multiple pictures of himself in the in game art. Wearing modern glasses in Old World garb. The man knows no shame.

will 4e actually come out this year or were they joking ? seriously they never talk about it

For me the high failure rate is just something to plan around if you are starting off a campaign with totally fresh characters.

For non-combat it's kinda up to the GM. Give bonuses for things that are very obvious or easy to try or making a string of failures not cause a road block but just have the action take a little longer than the party was expecting.

In combat the GM needs to be wary of how much of a challenge the fight will be but also the players shouldn't just run in flailing.

If all your characters are shit at fighting a 1 on 1 honourable duel, then make sure you don't have that. Split up the enemy before attacking, create distractions and jump people 2, 3, 4 on 1.

Of course that's assuming you feel your characters would do that.

Having 4 peasants (and their small but vicious dog) dive straight in and try to rob a noble only to have his bodyguard slap the entire party around would be just as much fun story wise in my opinion.

If I was to run a Warhammer-game, I'd probably do it with a Mythras/Renaissance-combo with a Warhammer paintjob.
While I love Warhammer, even when houseruled to the hilt it is pretty spotty.

Perhaps too many GMs only ever playing the rules as they are printed in the book rather than being liberal with the modifiers and situation specific target numbers?

I think I like percentile systems because it just feels nice to know I have x% chance to do something straight away compared to other systems that use target numbers.

Opposed rolls are a whole different thing which I also love.

Target numbers is just a percentile roll that hasn't been transcribed to the 1d100 paradigm. (check the statistics on a 1d20 sometime)
Opposed rolls aren't really unique to it either.

Not saying it's bad or anything though. Just saying that's the reason why the whiff factor exists.

I don't like 2e, so heavily concerned I won't enjoy 4e, which is a shame as I love the setting and would love to see a revival.

I wan play Skaven.

I'm hoping that old books will be compatible with 4e so we can play Skaven.

I just started a 2nd edition game online with some guys, three sessions in, and the group got stun locked in Middenheim sewers by some ghouls. Any advice on how to run fear tests because as written they lost several turns while ghouls swift attacked them. I have a couple ideas but I wanted some outside advice as well.

1e is good for Nostalgia purposes but honestly the peak of WHRPG is 2nd. Even then, the game rules does have it's flaws, but it's leagues above 1e and obviously 3e. The quality of the books, artwork, thought and layout, gameplay and sheer amount of background fluff that went into 2nd e is astounding.

FYI I'm putting together a Wiki for the rules of 2nd e here:

wiki.roll20.net/Warhammer_Fantasy_Roleplay_2nd_Edition

What book allowed you to play Skaven?

Children of the Horned Rat in 2e

Children of the Horned Rat, though they obviously aren't meant for a multicultural campaign.

Don't they only need to pass the fear test once? Or can they not even do that? it reads "When a character confronts a creature or scene that causes Fear, a Will Power Test must be made. A successful test means the fear is overcome and it has no further effect." Since it's a group of the same thing/similar things I would just have them need to only pass once.
Maybe reduce the difficulty %5 or %10 for every failed check until they get it?
I haven't played myself but I'd like to play or run a game eventually, sorry if this isn't any help.

You are right on all accounts. That is even what I did. I gave them cumulative +10 WP every round to snap out of being scared. They failed for two to five rounds before they broke free. The first one out was the ranged guy who was now stuck in melee. The last one free had already taken a crit before he snapped out of his stupor. Once they were free they mopped up the ghouls with little issue other than the wounds they had taken while scared stiff.

After the repeated shilling campaign and absolute debacle that derailed the last thread, I fully support antagonising and ostracising any and all zweifaggots that show up in wfrp related threads.

Personally, I’m really interested in running a game with my regular group on Roll20 and have been looking into converting the Lichemaster campaign from 1e. Anyone with experience of that campaign with any tips to liven it up?

Sounds challenging and memorable then. Don’t think I would do anything different.

Gotrek wears armour in a few of the books. A Slayer wearing armour makes sense, as they don't want to get punked out by like 6 goblins, they want to get their head taken off by a minotaur.

That's some tough rolling. I guess there are a couple ways I would change that, maybe bump it up to +15 or 20 for each failure/turn, especially for weaker things

Or maybe only have their frightening effect take place if the party is surprised/ambushed
Maybe change fear to a negative stat modifier for WS/BS and unable to parry/dodge or something of that manner (though this might overlap with another skill/talent, I think)

Also this
it seems like it could encourage players to avoid fighting until they've actually gotten better at it, I guess depending on XP is dealt out

Memorable yes but in a bad way. The players didn't like it. The last one to make his save ended up losing a fate point from dying of blood loss. There was no decision to it, just pure chance.

My idea for a houserule fix would be to make degrees of failure matter. Off the top of the head, 3+ degrees of failure is lose all actions like normal.1-2 degrees of failure is lose a half action. failure with no degrees of failure is -20 to checks for the turn. I could give bonuses for degrees of successes too but I think that is unnecessary. How does that sound? Any visible flaws?

The problem with fear instead of terror is you can't avoid the fight. You are rooted in place and can't flee. Terror actually helps you survive, but fear does not.

Just work something into the story that would justify you giving him back his fate point. He’ll get over it.