Learnign to RPG

whats so great about BW though? when in comparison to Dw

I'm not the guy who recommended it... from what I remember, Burning Wheel is a system that needs a huge amount of "player buy-in" (lots of unique rules/mechanics to learn, and the setting itself too) so I'd absolutely not recommend it for beginners.

hmmmm...thats what I liked about DW is that you can play the game with nearly nothing
that and I heard that the combat system was a lot easier than most other RPGs

DW and pbta in general is not so easy to GM as a newcomer desu, well not so not-so-easy as fucking burning wheel though. DW is pretty easy to play though, since it's was literally born from gaming group that wanted to play d&d but players didn't know any rules.
It will probably be fine if you watch a few games online to get a grasp.

>Burning Wheel has a clear mechanical basis to its rules set from where the players can make decisions as though they are their characters. I.E roleplay.

>Dungeon World is arbitarily based on whatever the GM feels like at the time. 'Lol you rolled a 6 to scout ahead, bears appeared.'

Dungeon World is just badly designed. Sure, combat is a lot easier than in other RPGs, but it's also much worse. Not to mention that you need a fan-made guide to explain many of the game's concepts that the creators themselves apparently did not grasp.

Apocalypse World, the game that Dungeon World so incompetently ripped off, is the much better choice there. As the name implies, the default setting is post-apocalyptic, but Apocalypse World: Fallen Empires turns the whole thing into fantasy, albeit with a lingering tinge of post-apocalypse.

Beyond the Wall and Other Adventures gives you a quick entrance to all the D&D you want, without any of the bloat and crap.

And Ryuutama is a RPG that is designed from the ground up to serve as a tutorial for GMs and players alike.

>Dungeon World is arbitarily based on whatever the GM feels like at the time. 'Lol you rolled a 6 to scout ahead, bears appeared.'
You mean like every other RPG burning wheel included?

Ill give all of these a look

I just found DW really easy to get everything I needed

Dungeon World is great. The only sticking point as GM will be monsters, so don't be afraid to simplify those at first. Have fun!
Do not get into D&D yet.

Moldvay Basic or D&D Fifth Edition are 'good' places to start.
The former is better than the latter, but the latter has drastically more players.

Burning Wheel isn't a great place to start, but you can do it.
Dungeon World is a mediocre place to start and an awful place to be.

...

I would post B2 as well, but
>8.8 MB

...

This.Play Dungeon World. It's fast, with a strong core mechanic built to enhance the story, not restrict it like the shitty D&D mechanics. Failure in Dungeon World is actually interesting, and all of the abilities are codified into the core mechanic to make it fast, fun, and easy to use. The combat is also much, much better. A dragon doesn't need 300 hit points to be challenging like it does in D&D, it can do stuff that's actually terrifying, like rip a character's arm off. Also, armor is damage reduction so no more of this "less likely to hit, but still does full damage if it does hit" bullshit. The monster stats are incredibly light, character creation is extremely fast and fluid, with just as many options as D&D when you consider that most of D&D is trap options. There is no powergaming in Dungeon World, just a fast story-based game that still has the mechanics from D&D that you love (hit points, classes, etc) but with much stronger mechanics that lead to a more fulfilling roleplaying experience.

My last session of Dungeon World, my human fighter wrapped a vampire in a bear hug and wrestled him out a window into the castle moat. This is real roleplaying we're talking about here, not babby D&D shit where you have to make two different rolls and then have some autist look up how far you can move about while grappling. Dungeon World is about fun and good story, not rules and combat bullshit.

OP, the issue with all these suggestions is that no one can really agree what the express purpose of RPGs are. You obviously want to run a fantasy game,but what do you want the campaign to focus on and what do your players want to play?

Do you want to run something more focused on roleplaying, or interesting fights, or maybe exploring fantastic landscapes and lair? Different games are better suited to different things

>newbie come along
>DW and Burning Wheel gets recommended

Veeky Forums, what the hell happened to you?

I learned how to play and run RPGs from Dragonstrike, and its awesomely bad--but still quite helpful--VHS tape:
youtube.com/watch?v=FF1_IHliRhI

Burning Wheel would be a good place to start if you had a game master who already knew the game well. It has game mechanics that incentivise, and thus teach, actual roleplay in a way that I have yet to see another system do. Unfortunately the book is a tome and the writing style is off putting to many so not good if you are all new.

Whatever you do stay away from pathfinder or dnd3/3.5, they are really bloated systems IMO.

Mouse Guard is made for beginners and is pretty good overall.

/wst/ and /qst/ were cast off, and with them went our betters

I know not flaming circles well, but I KNOW that those who preach of cloister realms are but HERETICS! OP, you must not listen to those heretics, for you shall be led ASTRAY.

>/qst/
>betters
Is that why they keep coming back to bitch about getting exiled?

We somehow acquired taste
It's weird, I know
D&D and Pathfinder fags were our betters?
I'm glad they left.

DW and BW aren't bad games, they're just not very good. In order to be good, they need trained hands.
OP can probably have more fun breaking his own knee with a hammer than start with these..

Except that's not at all true in practice, and you know it.

Mouse Guard is cool, box set is just expensive

D&D 5e starter set first. Every other answer is wrong. Best place to start. Try new things after that.

DW _is_ a bad game. No matter how trained your hands. No matter how idealistic your group.

Burning Wheel and Dungeon World are two games on the opposite ends of a spectrum.

Dungeon World is mostly about telling a cool story. It works well for players who only want to worry about the rules a little. It doesn’t have any more character building than it needs to and a lot of the rules lack a mechanical precision that most Veeky Forums people value. Dungeon World is simple and doesn’t come with that many moving parts. Sit down, play fantasy super Bros.

Burning Wheel is a fucking Swiss watch. It’s got so many rules. So many systems and subsystems and they all work really well for people who like a lot of mechanical grit in their game. That said, it is super complex, so I don’t recommend it for new players unless your players really enjoy mastering tabletop rules and spending a long time getting good.

Is this a troll post? Isn't burning wheel crunchy and rules-heavy?

mediafire.com/folder/7llc83r2xf8bg/Barbarians_of_Lemuria_-_Mythic_Edition

But it is. Can you elaborate on your complaints? It is certainly a better deal for beginners than regular Burning Wheel or D&D.
I personally recommend the rulebook on its own. The box set doesn't include anything you need.

Seconding this.

I’m notbut what I think he meant was:
“While Mousegaurd is a lighter game than Burning Wheel it is still pretty rule-heavy. I do not believe it a good place for beginners to the ttrpg hobby. Rather it is a good introduction to Burning Wheel.”

Rule heavy how? Short of something like Risus or Roll For Shoes it isn't heavy. In a world where games like D&D 5th Edition are considered rules light then it is certainly one of the lightest. The game itself introduces lots of concepts that are used in other RPGs, as well as generally encouraging role playing and fleshing out a character in a way that fosters good habits.

Not him. I run a few mouse guard games for complete beginners and experienced players. In my experience conflict mechanics and use of artha universally were a bit of stumbling blocks. Everything else they were grasping without problems.
Nevertheless i think it is a good system to start with, mainly because it teaches to formulate characters personality and awards for playing it.

And it does all that by piling on lots (as in ahelluva lot) of unintuitive rules.

OP you want GURPS
I'm serious

If you can read, you can play GURPS. Get through the Basic Set and make shit up. After that, then you apply other details from other books.

This. HP bloat, the difference between NPC and PC power, and generally wonky mechanics that just don't work well introduce new players in a way that makes risk-assessment and good judgement impossible. Granted, not every player that starts with DnD will be like this, but the grand majority will have issues knowing when to cut their losses against massively superior foes because there's no good indication that enemies are too badass for them until one or more of the party is face-down in the dirt. At higher levels, they'll just chew through encounters without much trouble, lending the impression that this is the norm for TTRPGs, rather than an exception.

That's why you should play Mythras.

BoL is shit, combat in that is boring, the entire game is boring, mostly hand-wavy, the book is garish and terribly formatted, and an attempt to cash in on cheap nostalgia to cover up for a system that reads like one of those ultralight one-page RPGs except bloated into 50 pages of stupid rules and put online for money.

Like? Nothing in my experience stops the game from working, especially when you compare it to anything else mentioned in this thread save maybe DW.

I think that a lot of the problem is that D&D has tons of hold overs from the 70's, whereas other systems aren't quite as dated and make for less clunky systems.

It starts at chargen and goes downhill - or uphill, whatever, from there.
Note that I've never said it didn't work, but there is a reason why BW isn't popular. It's a dense motherfucker.

>BoL is shit, combat in that is boring, the entire game is boring, mostly hand-wavy
It's a rules-light system where the rules don't get in your way. If you want a crunchy, tactical, wargamey combat experience, then you definitely want something else. But if you want something where combat is more fluid and more of an extension of role-play (where you are choosing actions based more on what seems cinematically appropriate as opposed to which option on a list gives you the most advantageous mathematical statistics), then BoL is great. Basically, do you want combat to be a tactical mini-wargame within your RPG, or not? For me, if I want to play a wargame, I'll play an actual wargame. In RPGs, I prefer looser, more cinematic, more improvisational combat, where descriptions and circumstances play a much larger role.

>There is no powergaming in Dungeon World
I've played a lot of Dungeon World and I can very much say there is. You can absolutely make super OP builds, and that does sometimes come at the expense of taking more narratively appropriate or fun options.

That being said, powergaming is very much not as big a problem in Dungeon World as it is in another system. You're mostly just hurting your own enjoyment, though if you get too crazy op compared to everyone else it can make things boring/frustrating. Though Dungeon World is designed so that you can have level 1 and level 10 characters fighting alongside each other and it still flows well.

Literally the best tabletop games I've been in have almost all been in Dungeon World. Like 4/5 of them were Dungeon World games. Sure I've played more DW than anything else, but that's because my group tends to keep coming back to it because our DW games always go really well.

Good DM advice
Only 2 books in BW gold so easy for a beginner
Classic fantasy setting
Rules heavy but with fast combat resolution rules which goes 90% of the way to making a speedy game. A lot of reading for the GM but it does say that more complex systems are optional and some GM's and players will prefer to have rules to reach for to handle most situations rather than extrapolating a simple rule set for a situation without examples in the rulebook.

It's a paste, don't bother.

If all your alternatives are D&D, of course DW is going to look good in comparison. But it's still overall crap.

Personally I find that BRP-based games are the easiest to learn because the system is so straight forward. There are no feats, moves, advantages/disadvantages or buzzwords to remember, you just have stats, skills and equipment. The haunted house CoC adventure is probably the best place to start.

>moves

You don't take actions in those games where you need to roll the dice to see the outcome? If you do, it's got "moves".

>advantages/disadvantages

You don't modify the difficulty of an action based on circumstance? If you do, you've got "advantages/disadvantages".

You sound like you are afraid of words you don't understand the meaning of.

About to run Burning Wheel for first time. Going to be very political, hopefully the NPC and PC interaction will make up for the simplified combat. Will eventually transition it to some dark shit to really test the characters' beliefs. Put their favorite NPC's at risk, lot of taxing and haggling. Too bad we only have me as GM and 2 players.

Man, this is some next level retardation.