Elder Dragon Highlander/Commander General

do you run boots in your erebos deck? do i need to?

ty senpai

Not OP, but I don't and it works just swell, It is big mana after all.

New Baron Sengir legendary that is actually a decent vampire tribal leader.

>3 legends in the SAME COLORS spoiled already
uhhhhh fellas?
there's gonna be a LOT of people trying to push un-commanders. what are your thoughts on that? I know a lot of groups won't allow it and I don't blame them but there's gonna be a TON of it once the set drops, we could get as many as 15 legends…

personally, my playgroup is probably going to accept them as long as the only silver card is the commander, and as long as I don't have to physically jump around and shit
but pic related seems fun and not overpowered in a reasonably competitive playgroup like mine

thoughts?

I'm going to push against un-commanders as hard as I possibly can. Allowing un-commanders is one step away from allowing all un-cards and THAT is a terrible slope to slide down. You get a real fucking shitshow if you allow all un-set cards in commander, so let's all be reasonable and push back against the coming lunacy as hard as we can.

Nah, I appreciate how fun some of these cards can be but I fully expect it to be abused rather than just be a jank joke deck if my playgroup allowed it

is bojuka bog worthless if none of my opponents run graveyard shenanigans?

I feel like a massive hypocrite because I play grimlock for fun/more casual games, but yeah, I am GOING to kill myself if I have to play with shit like gotcha cards or r&d lair or whatever, fuck
I mean there's clear difference between shit like that but it'll definitely spiral out of control. not happy

Modern is pretty good and healthy right now.

no its not, more older modern players have been leaving than ever because the format is locked to 1 good combo deck, 0 good control decks, and only aggro and midrange decks being diverse

the only people that think new modern is good is because they dealt with eldrazi time and thought "wow this isnt as bad as it use to be!"

Apparnetly League of Dastardly Doom will have the most Legendaries of any Tribe in Unstable.
Expect the rest to have 1-2.

I just hope no faggot tries to play Spike for the sole purpose of dropping Emmy.

well thank fuck. that matches their flavor so it makes sense.
spike is probably the only one I'd never consider, I love the card so much and the flavor is flawless but just no, lmao

>Decree of Pain
super expensive even for what it does, you want all of your wrath effects to be 2-4 mana.
suggestions i have for that are toxic deluge and fire covenant(instant speed one sided wrath for 3 mana that should see alot more play than it does)

>swarm intelligence
super expensive and doesn't do anything the turn you play it.

>cruel ultimatum
expensive, color requirements are high and it only hits one opponent

>spelltwine
expensive and a lot of the time it will just sit in your hand because it would be a waste of a spell to just hit cantrips out of yards for how much mana it costs

>Mnemonic Wall
its more expensive than archaeomancer and it would probably be better to replace it with something like call to mind which is cheaper and can do double duty with kess

>memory plunder
color intensive and same problem that spelltwine has where it could just sit in hand until there is something good enough to hit with it

>secrets of the dead
it looks good on paper but unless you have kess on board it isnt really doing anything and even if she is on board it might be better to play something better in your hand then yard so you wont even draw a card for turn.

>silumgar's command
it seems too expensive to be an efficient answer to your opponents threats, its better to run another 1 or 2 mana removal spell or counterspell then needing to hold open 5 mana on your opponents turn.

>propaganda
it seems a little out of place with the rest of the deck, if you are trying to protect yourself from your opponents then replace it with a removal spell that can do double duty with kess

with how may early cantrips you are running and how many mana rocks you have I can promise that you dont need 37 lands, cut 5 or 6 of those and replace them with other stuff. In my kess deck I personally run 28 but I do have more early rocks than you have in your list like mana crypt and mana vault

I get really fucking excited for spoiler season every year and usually end up proxying out a Commander for early playtesting. I should probably start branching out from the cult of new he says as he nervously eyes U/B Taigam’s EDHrec page

What’s a good pre-2010 Commander in Dimir or Rakdos?

Every time someone casts a turn one Mana Vault, a puppy dies.

I hope to god not. Unsets are one of those things where the second you try and take it like a real game, shit hits the fan and it's just a clusterfuck of rage and confusion.

I'm old enough a player to remember Unhinged and what it did to casual playgroups and hoooooooly shit it was a fucking nightmare. Fuck allowing Un-cards in my EDH groups. That sounds like recrimination and misery.

Currently only have newzuri, which isn't bad, although winning with sage isn't as fun as it used to be. Anyways building Xenagod for a nice change of pace. If I like it I'll drop more money on it (currently only dropping like $50/$60)
General question: Neheb only belongs in the 99 if I have shit like aggravated assault, right?

This motherfucker.

>guy casts turn 1 mana vault
>wonders why everyone knocks him out of the game first

>guy casts turn 1 mana vault
>turn 2 endstep casts Ad Naus
>turn 3 kills the table

thats the proper way to use mana vault on turn 1

how mean is this in a gitrog-style deck?

good thing my group is still casual and late game doesn't come until turn 12

Nah I don't. Erebos just sits there to draw cards. And it's indestructable. so good.

Hey guys.

I posted a while back about building my first deck around shadow creatures and am still looking for more advice.

My original plan was to get a lot of shroud/hexproof and run shadow creatures, which I thought would be really thematic and cool, but after 2 nights of playing with it I don't think it's going to work out. Shadow creatures can't block, so I am trying to rely on lifelink to compensate, but shadow creatures also don't do much damage to make good use of it. Auras and equipment help, but slow down the rate the deck deals damage.

I also have trouble keeping up with decks that draw lots of cards or play things for free a lot - it seems like every game ends with me having 0 cards in hand and the other guys with 12+ and a full table.

Finally, board wipes ruin me pretty badly. I can get shroud on a lot of stuff, but anything that just "destroys all creatures" doesn't care, and I have no way to get those creatures back once they are wiped.

Any ideas? Can this deck work in theme, or should I just try something else?

>Late game doesn't come until turn 12
Someone Call the EDH police and arrest this man's group for playing too fast

Cute effect. Good luck getting your group to let you play it in the Rog Frog though.

im more concerned about crypt ghast, but i also have caged sun, cabal coffers and magus coffers so i should be fine right?

it's a child of alara deck that does the same thing, just with more land options

Play damia and use it and rog in the 99

This many, plus 2 under renovation, 4 Pauper EDH decks, and a bunch in various stages of completion.

How does my Jhoira deck look in terms of ramp and consistency? I'm going to add in a Vault, Sol Ring, and Dig Through Time.

>now you just wanna stick to casual commander, draft, and legacy/vintage if you want to have a quality game
I know this too well. My LGS has people with no interest in modern or standard but love to play legacy and it ain't bad. Can't say what I know about EDH night since I heard it has price support and I don't want to see the same combo deck every table

>mfw a guy in my group asked if he could play frankie peanuts
>told him he could but I would get to tear up a card from his binder for each game he played
>he actually agreed
>take a mox opal masterpiece from it and tear it
>gets mad about it but accepts it and doesn't play peanuts again
And I'll do it again for each faggot who comes to my house and wants to play this shit

Cool story bro. Now tell us how his girlfriend left him for you, and makes him watch while you two fuck.

Ok friend, I want to help, but I need a little information.

Who is your commander? How dedicated to your theme are you? Do you just want to win or do you want to be shadowy as fuck?

Weenie/20

Hey if you don't want to believe me, fine. Just don't expect your "lel so fanny xD" commanders to fly otherwise I'll rip your shit up

I think this where I'm supposed to post the navy seal pasta, right? Look at mr tough guy here, ripping cardboard. So intimidating.

to be fair there's a pretty big difference between something like Frankie Peanuts and something like Grimlock
but yeah, did he think you were going to rip chaff? lol
obviously that's when you use your other, actually competitive deck instead

Go ahead and post it faggot.

The guy is always wanting to change up EDH games to some retarded style like Bang! with only 4 players or 1v1 Archenemy and only he can ne archenemy because its "his format but its also his own fault for not using that mox.

I went to magical christmasland, and it was beautiful.

Ydris t3 with boots, turn 4cast archetype of endurance into ramp, t5 howl of the horde into spelltwine into fof, natural order into greenwarden, howl again casting temporal tresspass

It was beautiful

Oh hai.

Originally I started the deck when I found my Selenia Dark Angel from 15 years ago buried in a shoebox. She fits the theme ok, but is way too expensive to recast from your hand. I bought almost every black/white commander that exists to play around with alternatives to her, and right now am trying Karlov, since his removal helps me clear troublesome creatures off the field and he's a ghostish thing. None of them are perfect fits for the theme, but I prefer to stay as close as I can.

As for theme dedication, I am trying to build a deck as close to theme as possible, then compromise on it by putting in better albeit less thematic cards until the deck becomes functional to win occasionally. I don't care if I lose most of the time, but I'd like to stay in the game long enough for it to become interesting and remain relevant for a while.

i responded to you last time. white and black have lots of recurrence. i still think you should consider running ravos + tymna. ravos gets your dudes back from being dead and tymna gets you card advantage when they attack. otherwise going esper could be better. running it as a control deck might help.

you should just post your list.

Ok, so, a few thoughts. First off, you know that shadow exists in blue, right? That would open Esper commanders to you and there's a good number of those that are quite strong (Oloro comes to mind here, helps your life total issue nicely and no one's gonna complain if your Oloro deck is shadow-themed). Adding blue also gives you more draw options but has the downside of making a more complicated (and expensive) manabase and possibly drawing hate (though again, I wouldn't hate out an Oloro deck that was shadow based and I think a lot of people wouldn't either).

Second, you have access to black, which is just about the best solo color in the format (debatable but in the running for sure). Black has card draw in spades, cards like Phyrexian Arena, Greed, Erebos, God of the Dead, and Necropotence are all powerful choices. You also have win conditions like Exsanguinate and Debt to the Deathless available to you currently, which you should take advantage of. You also have reanimation effects like Patriarch's Bidding, Yawgmoth's Will, Phyrexian Reclaimation, and other one-shot effects to recycle your shadow guys.

Third, white has anthem effects, which you need to take advantage of if your wincon is beating down with shadow dudes since they're all small. Something like True Conviction and Dictate of Heliod together would go a long way towards making your guys a lot stronger (True Conviction is an absolute must for you by the way). White also provides excellent removal options for you, if you need them. Finally, white also provides equipment synergies if you want to go that way instead of anthems. That also lets to conserve your guys and only run out a few at a time, just enough to carry your equipment, which helps you avoid getting blown out by wraths.

Just some starting thoughts. What are you liking and not from these suggestions?

How does one actually go about upgrading a precon? How do I find what cards to cut from something like Meren outside of obvious mediocrity like Champion of Stray Souls?

Try slapping everything with an orzhov watermark in the deck and go from there.

I'll try to help out a bit more by listing some of the cards I am currently using and what my thoughts were putting them in there.

I am aware that shadow is not a very powerful feature to have on creatures since they tend to have lower power and it doesn't protect them from targeted abiltiies or wipes. I tried to get around this with equipments and auras to make them both harder to target and hit harder:

[artifacts]

whispersilk cloak
cloak and dagger
lightning greaves
basilisk collar (for lifelink, also deathtouch with the zealot il-vec, my favorite card)
fireshrieker (doublestrike, great with quietus spike)
loxodon warhammer (lifelink and +3 power)
general's kabuto

[enchants]
spirit loop (lifelink, also bounce to hand which is cool)
soul link (lifelink)
lifelink
luminous wake (+4 life per attack)
favorable destiny (shroud)

I also put in some stuff to try to take advantage of the fact shadow creatures hit players pretty much every turn they are alive, so things that trigger on player damage:

sword of light and shadow
quietus spike (cut life in half)
mask of memories (card draw)
celestial mantle (double your own life!)

More shroud stuff:

Greater auramancy (all other enchantments and enchanted creatures are shrouded)
Ivory mask (player is shrouded)

Some creatures to help with shrouding, even though they aren't spirits/shadows/ghosts which kind of bothers me:

true believer (player is shrouded)
Leonin (artifacts are shrouded)
Aegis of the Gods (gives player hexproof)

1/2

Sure UnCommander is fine, if everyone is playing UnCommander decks.

The idea is to be really hard to pin down, like a mirage. Shroud/hexproof, shadow creatures, things that undo damage, things that reverse damage, all that kind of stuff while having as few "corporeal" creatures on the field as possible. Spirits might be an ok thing to branch out into, especially if they have graveyard recusion somehow, but I have no clue where to start with that.

As for blue...I'll be honest, I hate blue. I'd like to stick to black/white, which makes more sense from a theme perspective as well (light/dark, etc. I even doublesleeved my cards to make them look "shadowy"). I have to my knowledge every single black and white shadow creature (and soltari guerillas), and I love the white and black spells (not so much the creatures - vampire/zombie/soldier etc are not what I'm after). I might consider a different wincon than punching with shadows, but then why would shadow creatures exist? Is there another role they fill besides that?

You listed off a greater number of cards I recall the names of but not what they do, so I am reading through them now.

2/2

Ok, I see a few issues with what you've listed so far, but the big one is that shroud/hexproof doesn't matter that much in EDH. There just isn't that large a quantity of targeted removal running around and shroud/hexproof doesn't help much outside of specific cards that are good for defending key pieces like a commander in a commander-centric deck. I know it's "thematic" for you, but you need to cut it and replace it with card draw effects like I listed earlier.

>I might consider a different wincon than punching with shadows
Not saying you should ditch the shadow guys, but supplement them with a few cards like Exsanguinate and Debt to the Deathless, just a few ways to close out a game once you've hit people down some.

I also have this theory that you don't have sufficient mana going on. You're running 37 lands, right? You're running a good number of mana rocks, right? Orzhov Signet, Sol Ring, Worn Powerstone, Commander's Sphere, Gilded Lotus, Thran Dynamo, these are all good cards to run and you probably should be running them, are you? If you can't make enough mana, you can't play your spells, so whatever you have doesn't matter if you can't get it out fast enough.

Look for cards that do what a certain card does better or at a lesser cost. I found most of the mill cards in meren to be useless when you can just use buried alive to get what you want in the yard and you want lots of creatures that have benefits from entering and dying

>ditch shroud
Hmmm...I guess I kind of fear getting zapped by burn spells, but I do have a ton of cards locked up in providing shroud right now. You might be right.

>mana
28 monocolor lands
7 2 color lands
4 mana artifacts

That's 35 lands and 4 rocks.

If I do remove all my shroud stuff, what should I try replacing it with? What's a decent ratio of sorcery/instant/enchantment/artifact/creature? I'm pretty clueless about that. How many draw cards so I be putting in? How many removal? Is Karlov the best commander option for this kind of deck?

35/4 is definitely too low, especially with low draw power. Cut the shroud/hexproof stuff, up the lands to 37 and the rocks to maybe 6 (see the list I gave above for key candidates for inclusion). For extra lands, consider Vault of the Archangel, Temple of the False God, Orzhov Basilica, and Ancient Tomb as likely candidates for inclusion. I definitely recommend you get Vault, at the very least.

>What's a decent ratio of sorcery/instant/enchantment/artifact/creature?
Commander doesn't work like that. You want ratios of cards that fill certain roles, not card types. You're a beatdown deck, you want to kill by swinging dudes at the other guys, so you'll want a lot of creatures (in this case, you're playing all 28 shadow guys in your colors). You may want to supplement them with some other evasive beaters in your colors, maybe a few big angels to help close out the deal (Akroma, Angel of Wrath is classic, Spirit of the Night is classic too, Selenia since you have one and it's from that era, stuff like that). Maybe peak around 35-37 creatures, enough to draw a lot of them each game but not so many you're overwhelmed with them. Using my land/rock numbers above, that gives you 80ish cards spoken for. Include 5-6 card draw effects, repeatable ones like Necropotence/Phyrexian Altar/Underworld Connections/Greed), 5-6 good equipment (like Sword of Light and Shadow, Loxodon Warhammer, prioritize stuff that boosts power and gives an ability to boot; skip auras in this deck, you don't have space for a good aura package), 2-3 pieces of recursion like Patriarch's Bidding or Phyrexian Reclaimation, and you're around 95 cards. You've got a few flex slots for you to play whatever you'd like in, you know, give your deck some personal flavor, and you're good to go. If you struggle with those last slots, fill in with more card draw, equipment, or recursion.

The above is a really rough outline, but should be good enough for you to get where you want to go.

You're so full of shit. You'd have gotten your nuts stomped in if you'd torn up $170 worth of cards.

People are gonna play the Unstable commanders and they're gonna have fun with them, and there's shit all you can do about it but fantasize, sweetie

Additionally, this is only the beginning. This is all rough and untested. You'll want to refine the deck over successive play sessions by cutting what doesn't work and trying something new in its place. Find cards that suck and replace them with something better.

Finally, your choice of commander probably could use some looking at. I agree with and would suggest Ravos/Tymna. They provide recursion, an anthem, and card draw all in the command zone. It's a great choice for your deck. It isn't too flavorful but they're *really* great for what you're doing.

Oh look a bitter neckbeard trying to be a tough guy on the internet. Let's all laugh at him

Sorry I missed your post, thanks for the help.

The list I played last night is:

[land]
command tower
orzhov basilica
isolated chapel
concealed courtyard
shambling vent
evolving wilds
vault of the archangel
eiganjo castle
vivid meadow
kabira crossroads
secluded steppe
emeria skyruin
flagstones of trokair
leechridden swamp
barren moor
bajuka bog
9 swamp
10 plains

[rocks]
commander's sphere
darksteel ingot
sol ring
orzhov amulet

[creatures]
16 shadow creatures
paladin of prahv (for the forecasted lifelink)
true believer
spirit of the labyrinth
aegis of the gods
leonin abunas
fountain watch
dauthi trapper

[artifacts]
whispersilk
sword of light and shadow
demon horn
angel feather
quietus spike
loxodon warhammer
cloak and dagger
lightning greaves
fireshrieker
basilisk collar
general's kabuto

[other stuff]
greater auramancy
celestial mantle
lifelink
spirit loop
soul link
favorable destiny
luminous wake
steelshaper's gift
vindicate
diabolic tutor
cradle of vitality
ajani's mantra
leyline of sanctity
dauthi embrace
quest for the holy relic
bloodchief ascension
wound reflection
boon reflection
ivory mask
oblivion ring
righteous cause
mortify
anguished unmaking
return to dust
utter end
unmake

Karlov

I actually have both weaver and the shirtless guy, I just really don't like them as cards more than as function.

I actually have vault, so that's good at least. I can look into getting some more mana artifacts.

I also have serra ascendant, sun titan, divinity of pride, blazing archon, eternal dragon, and a ton of other cards in my "maybe" pile. I'll start moving stuff around and see what happens.

>I might consider a different wincon than punching with shadows, but then why would shadow creatures exist? Is there another role they fill besides that?
There are shitloads of cards whose purpose is to rot in boxes forever and never see play in any deck. You don't have some kind of duty to play bad cards.

>no good jund commanders

Come one, come all, and see the amazing Living Retard! Dumb as a brick sure as he's alive!

No hyperbole, there's a bunch of solid Jund commanders, user. I mean, Prossh is one of the strongest dudes in the format for Christ's sake.

Too fucking many.

I'm using them because I think they are cool, not because they are good. I would like to make them good enough to play decently long games with them and make the local magic crew see and play against something they haven't really seen before, that's all.

is there a repeatable means to counter an annihilator trigger?

Isochron Scepter imprinting a Stifle. Otherwise, good luck, man.

Sigarda

Dont forget the guy who taught her those tricks.

that post was a mere ploy to get people to list good jund commanders, hopefully that weren't prossh

What's your most obscure win condition? Give me your memeiest triumphs.

Shattergang bros?

I use it with Eye of the Storm, not Enter the Infinite.

All Jund commanders are bad Prossh. That’s the problem with the world today.

The closest thing to not Prossh you can get in Jund requires fucking Partners.

So me and some friends got into an argument earlier tonight that we need a rule clear on
>creature with double strike and trample attacks
>defending player blocks
>the first strike damage is dealt and any extra damage tramples over like normal
here is were the argument start
>the double strike trample creature deals firstrike trample, as long as that creature dies no normal combat is dealt that can trample over, (that is what us 3 believe)
>player 4 argues that the trample damage carries over into the regular damage step and allows him full damage on the second combat step
who's in the wrong?

Since the reprint it's been much more on the radar for people, but to make an enemy to bring you down to

The majority was wrong. Your friend was right. Apologize to him.

Player 4 is in the right, and the rest of you are fucking idiots.

Would vial smasher/shy dick work?

Are all commander partner combinations bad?

Define "bad"

Partners are some of the most competitive commanders, especially vial smasher

Consider this:

Player A attacks with a 5/5 trampler.
Player B blocks with a 3/3
Player A casts Path to Exile, removing the 3/3 blocker from combat before combat damage.

How much damage do you think Player B will take?

I don't care what any of you fags say I'm building her.

Same. Looks fucking awesome.

Of the Legends spoiled today I think she has the best ability to be allowed at different tables. She doesn't seem overpowered and provides some more depth for Rakdos.

What are some good ways to bounce lands?

I wonder if there are any characteristic-defining abilities that would fuck up with this.

I'm assuming the "fix" for having two CDAs that set p/t is just going to be "use both", like if you were to combine Malignus and Mortivore, it'd have a total power of half the highest life total + the number of creature cards in all graveyards.

>Ten mana put two dudes on the field combined with menace
Reasonably costed and appropriately silver-bordered. One of my favorite designs in Unstable so far.

Skybind, Ruin Ghost, Bouncelands

...

exploration or azusa + ruin ghost, trade routes, karoos, lairs

or if you're *really* hardcore, zuran orb + splendid reclamation