Pathfinder General /pfg/

Okay Veeky Forums, need to know how badly I and my group deserved what happened here:
>another player offers to GM on the side so I can take a break from it
>sounds good, I make a wizard cause I never get to play wizard
>other players want me to play fighter/barbarian
>say no because I am sick of being the martial cuck, and I say we'll be fine without one
>party is rogue, cleric, sorcerer, and wizard
>first session goes pretty well
>second session, we go to retrieve dagger from some goblins, find 5 in the woods
>there are only 3 of us this time (the cleric isn't feeling well)
>I have 2 sleep spells prepared
>manage to sneak up on goblins
>rogue sneaks up, throws dagger
>rolls a 2
>gets hit repeatedly despite 19 AC
>goes to 0
>I cast sleep because it might be my only chance to save him
>he fails his save, all three of the goblins pass
>send my owl familiar to peck him awake
>meanwhile one of the goblins charges the sorcerer and gets 2 crits on him
>I cast sleep again, 3 gobbos fall asleep
>now have no level 1 spells
>goblins start shooting at me
>sorcerer goes down
>goblin hits me with arrow reduces me to 2 hp
>also world is constant rain so all ranged attacks get -4
>but I have 11 AC
>realize I cannot run far enough and I am about to die like a bitch
>charge with staff because it's the only thing I have a positive modifier to hit with in this fucking rain
>even daze is basically useless because there are too many of them
>roll a 2 to hit
>say fuck it and run for my life
>rest of party gets pissed at me for not playing a fighter, and saying we should go into combat
>sorcerer doesn't even have sleep, just magic missile and burning hands
>I craft a sleep scroll for him to cast when we go back but he says he's done with playing for the day so we leave off the session there
>everyone seems asshurt because we had to run away due to shitty luck
Is this my fault? Or just bad luck?

How would a Mystic Theurge do for a Summoning build? Sure the spell level progression sucks compared to going purely into one class, but you also have more spell slots. Granted I guess there's not much point in doing MT when so many classes can summon more than enough with certain archetypes.

>rusty dagger shanktown

If you want to 'summon' shit just play a summoner you dumb idiot

Oh, sorry, I'd actually gotten it mixed up with Toxic Sniper. Don't know what I was thinking.

Gee, I sure hadn't thought of that. Real glad you pointed that out to me Captain F. Obvious.

Is there a pdf of Ultimate Wilderness up?

Because there's almost a dozen Alchemist archetypes that give up Poison Use, and players might want to combine this archetype with them.

>DHB actually app'd for North High
IT WAS SUPPOSED TO FAIL

Apparently you hadn't because you made that dumb fucking post

Why do you care?

Well I'm glad you took your sweet time to point that fact out.

Which of those archetypes would even stack though? How many of them ONLY give up poison use and not some fragment of the resistance portion? How many of them don't touch bombs, Brew Potion, Throw Anything, or swift poisoning, in addition to that? Ctrl+f on Nethys puts there at a whopping 20 archetypes that trade out poison use, I'll have to get back to you on how many of those (and which ones) stack. Hopefully at least one does, though the chances of it being worth taking might be slim.

You're welcome faggot

What do you gestalt with an inquisitor?

Something else wisdom based, maybe cleric, UC monk, or ranger.

If I was thinking about initiating, would it be better to take something like warder, or do the archetype, and take something like maybe soulknife?

Monk, maybe fighter? Perhaps a Barbarian? If 3pp is on the table, then Ordained Defender Warder, Stalker, Mystic, Medic, and Guru all make excelent choices because Wisdom synergy.

Le OD/ZS warder meme

That depends on what you want to play, and what the group needs.

>Upgrading a magic weapon with plain ol' +N enchantments.
Goofus or Gallant?

Also! Pathwalker Psywar prestiging into Awakened Blade. Because Psywars can do that.

Alright, a quick look, and out of 20 archetypes which replace Poison Use, only Mindchemist and Oenopion Researcher can stack with Gun Chemist. Mindchemist is a pretty good one for you though, since you'll likely want to pump your Int anyway for that sweet sweet gun damage, but Oenopion Researcher looks kind of awful unless you just want to chuck your mutagen at allies. Losing Swift Alchemy hurts since you'd really want to be able to quickly make your bullets and shit.

Two out of TWENTY that replace Poison Use. There's still a shitload of archetypes besides that, but most of them don't stack and I can't think of any offhand you would WANT to stack.

At certain levels a caster can learn a new spell in exchange of an old one, can you do this with cantrips?

Hunter if you don't mind keeping track of two spell lists.
I'm playing a Hunter | Sanctified Slayer/Preacher Inquisitor and it's great.
Shared Outflank with the animal companion means you hardly ever feel the problems of 3/4 BAB, you get good progression on all 3 saves, and you can buff yourself basically all day with how many spells you get.
The only really problem is the d8 hit die with only medium armor making you a little frail, but you can do a lot of damage to make up for it.

That's the ordained defender warder right? With zweihander sentinel? Why is that a meme?

Divine fighter with a silver tongue was the basic idea, but beyond that I hadn't thought. Most of my group hasn't decided either, so it's probably fine with whatever.

What are medic and guru? I don't see those on the srd.

It's the smartest way of spending those +s unless you need something specific for your build

Has anyone had experience with the Troop creature type? Going to do some larger combat but want to ideally use something more abstract for units of troops. Does it work well for this kind of thing? I know it was specifically created for this but asking more whether or not it's actually any good. Is there any better alternatives (1PP or 3PP)?

People throwing around gold pieces like those things were candy drives me up the fucking wall.

>Why is that a meme?
OD/ZS is considered to be much stronger than base Warder, since it trades so little away to get so much in return.

OD/ZS warders are objectively superior to normal warders in every way and there's no reason not to be one

It's a meme because it's really good and is used incredibly frequently.

>app is literally ‘demon in my left arm’
What the fuck.

They're both DSP classes. Guru should be on the Akashic Mysteries part of the SoP wiki, Medic is in it's own separate PDF, which might be in the trove.

That's what we all do in my group when we're trying to get some information from a bartender or something like that. Usually around 10gp

Its DHB. This is literally what he does.

Is that bad for an archetype to be always better? Don't people do that with some magus and barbarian archetypes?

If an archetype is always 100% better than it has failed at the purpose of being an archetype. They're supposed to be sidegrades, not upgrades.

It isn't. But some people get butthurt about being outshone when they intentionally pick bad choices.

This looks exactly the same?

It's the smartest, but also the most boring and most minmax-e dealio, so gallant wouldn't do it because he is an upstanding citizen who'd choose flavor fitting his character without crippling himself.

Yes, and most of them are just this but slightly different which irks me more. I Like them much better when they change the playstyle completely

>Don't people do that with some magus and barbarian archetypes?
The difference is that Warder is a pretty good standalone class capable of a good deal of variety in its niche, and the magus is a steaming pile of shit. Barbarian I dunno though.

Thousand dollars is a lot of dough hombre. That information better be vital.

Dude, there's always like 40 homebrew archetypes here for """""Fixing""""" shit classes like the kineticist. Sometimes shit is just better because it's needed or, get this, more fun. Warder in all honesty should have been designed to use two handers as its base, with a dedicated shield archetype. That way it plays into the normal paradigms that pathfinder uses, while also creating a design space for shields to be more than just the shit ac and gimmicks for Iron Tortoise they are.

>implying PoW needs fixing outside of deleting its garbage balance and starting over again

hello?

Shields need fixing.

today i will remind them

I know, but outside character creation, nobody in my group cares about anything under one gold. So just look at it like inflation doing its wonders

You did nothing wrong, if they wanted a fighter that badly one of them could've played one.

Don't, your summons will always be at least one spell level behind.

It's their own fault. If they're so adamant about a tag along martial bitch boi then maybe they should play one. Also I get 'playing what you like' but perhaps trying to be a suboptimal character right out the gate (aka the 'blasting' Sorc) isn't exactly advisable on your friends part. From the looks of things, the Sorc didn't do shit in that fight and without your sleep spell you'd have probably all died.

True. And while Spell Synthesis would be a fun way to cast Summon Monster twice in one turn, that's a lot of levels before that actually happens.

Honestly I've just been tempted to try a MT lately. Thought about using Elder Mythos Cultist Cleic, maybe combining that with Sorcerer, but even then I'm unsure what kind of spells to snag.

What if there aren't any enchantments that really fit the flavor of your character? Wouldn't not having a nice to hit/damage bonus cripple you more if you take it in exchange for some bullshit """fluff"""".

Someone give me the skinny on the new DHB app.

There are so many different enchantments that the notion of "not finding one that fits your fluff" is frankly absurd.

No it's not, honestly. I hate most of the weapon enchantments out there from a purely fluff perspective.

How would you fake your own death?

It's an app. DHB made it.

Skinny enough for ya?

Pic related

There's a ton, but most are either far, far too situational to seem smart, or are the standard elemental or alignment ones, which are cool enough. Things like Keen, or the one that gives bonuses while raging are really nice, but sorta limited more by class and build.

Then grab furyborn and get that +5 to hit and damage at the cost of a +3 weapon as long as you aren't fighting against mookscicles the entire game.

Well then do as you wish as long as it isn't just because a guide or /pfg/ told you to/not to.

>furyborn
Worthless, if you aren't one to shotting enemies you're a failure of a martial anyway.

Depends on how much preptime I have and how long I have to stay "dead".
If it's just about quickly playing possum for a few hours, I would throw Magic Jar.
Can't really answer off the top of my head when it comes to other situations.

Please help, the Hedgewitch has all the class features I want for a concept but I don't want to melee.

How high tier is the smug ojou-sama laugh?

>notice some of the stuff from villain codex isn't on nethys or the pfsrd
>go to check it, notice that alchemical cartridges that change the damage type of the gun exist!
>they're magical ammunition whose effect is either a +1 or a +6k price tag (160*50 for a full set of ammunition)
>to add insult to injury, the cartridges are also 1.5x as expensive as normal (18 gp vs the 12 of a normal alchemical cartridge)
>there's no way to get an endless supply of a particular ammunition if you buy a full set by RAW, that I know of, so if I bought these things (and had to upgrade them SEPARATELY) I would have to beg a DM to let them be functionally infinite.

god damnit paizo, fuck your shit, I'm making my own alchemical energy damage cartridges, with blackjack and hookers.

still waiting on legendary gunslingers to come out

If you don't want to Melee it up: pick literally any two traditions that aren't Combat and Charlatanism. If you really want to meme it up, take Academia+Spiritualism

Early game? Yes. Anything beyond the point where the average enemy has 80+ health and five times that as the game goes on in a single attack? What are you taking and where can I get it because that shit sounds like the hardest drug on the planet.

allow me to extrapolate a little

Nah, I want memes.

Someone should tell him that size change doesn't work like that, you don't get monster size change stat boosts, you just get the mauler boosts

Enlarge person works the same way.

Incorrect. The Mauler Size change gets size bonuses in addition explicitly. What is the point of contention is whether it uses the Monster Advancement Chart or the generic Polymorph Chart. There has been a lot of debate on this. So it's either 24 Str or 28 Str depending on which chart you're supposed to use.

> Battle Form (Su)
>At 3rd level, a mauler gains the ability to transform into a larger, more ferocious form and back at will. In battle form, the mauler’s size becomes Medium and the mauler gains a +2 bonus to Strength (this stacks with the normal Strength adjustments for increasing in size).
>(this stacks with the normal Strength adjustments for increasing in size).

Wrong. Mauler foxes get 16 STR for that same reason.

What is this like level 1? It's always going to be high risk at low levels. Sleep spell got you out alive, you would've been dead as a Fighter.

Remember that the Mauler was reprinted in UW with a clarification.

According to the designer its supposed to use the polymorph chart.

neat, that settles it

Good clarification, I suppose, but nobody will use UW for anything ever.

You mean that people are going to discard the entire book just because shifter is a steaming pile of shit? Yes it is, but the books is not a barrel of apples and one rotten shit doesn't spoil the batch.

The book is an entire barrel of rotten apples, with a few oranges mixed in that haven't been spoiled as badly. It's shit, sonny.

Huh, well looks like DHB is wrong. Still it's a very strong hand. A 24 Strength hand.

I don't know why anyone would ever think it used the monster chart unless they were stupid

I would agree, but I have learned that /pfg/ is full of shit, so I will not.

It doesn't normally get Deliver Touch Spells, except if you make it your familiar:
>d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/hand-s-detachment/
>If you have the familiar class feature, you can choose for your possessed hand to become your familiar, granting it all familiar abilities as normal. If selected as a familiar, your possessed hand grants you a +3 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks.

He's getting a Bloodline familiar with his Bloodrager bloodline and making the hand that familiar so it qualifies.

The reasoning would be that it isn't a polymorph effect and that the polymorph chart is essentially only used for the polymorph spell, no shape change spells actually use it either. Also because unless otherwise stated Su abilities are Universal and not any particular school, in this case transmutation.

Yeah, just realized that once I kept reading...

There is never, ever any time a PC should be using the monster size advancement chart

There has essentially never been a time that a PC uses the generic polymorph size change chart either, except for the spell polymorph.