Which one is the most dangerous to a normal party?

Which one is the most dangerous to a normal party?

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Probably Jason. Myers is more of a stalker who just watches and kills people when they are mostly alone. Freddy waits for them to sleep which they won't because they are partying. Jason could just roll in there and clean up real fast.

Define 'normal' I guess.

But probably Freddy Krueger. Jason is a basic bitch undead. With clerics and paladins being a dime a dozen, he's going to get smote with extreme prejudice. Pretty sure Michael Myers is just an autist with a knife, so maybe a low level barbarian class miniboss to get rolled over.

Most parties aren't equipped for dream combat, so Krueger hitting them in their dreams is going to cause the most problems. Dunno if he'd be weak to psions or not, but they don't really exist in a lot games anyway. Might be vulnerable to holy magic but I dunno if that works on dream manifestations.

>Jason is a basic bitch undead
Nerds screeching "AAAHCTUALLY Jason is the most powerful thing ever, and he killed Satan, and..." incoming in two minutes

Easily Freddy.
Unless you have a way to counter being dragged into his personal plane where he makes the rules, you’re absolutely fucked.

Everyone else can be stopped by relatively normal people.

Nah mate. I love Jason but he's not intimidating in a d&d context. Jason x is just some stat bumps. If you go with the body jumping from the worst movie it's a fun mechanic but Freddy is top dog here. He's a near omnipotent dream monster

Freddy no question, he attacks you in a way that could very easily blindside even experienced adventurers, is hard to combat directly, and taking him on probably involves some magic/psionic shenanigans.

Meyers are Jason, even if you give them their most brutal interpretation- they can't be truly killed and will always return, are just really strong brutes. A standard D&D party can handle them easily even if they are as strong and durable in each fight as your average ogre, giant, troll, whatever.

While I agree Freddy is the most dangerous, you're forgetting how Jason and Michael operate.

They don't attack people when they're in groups, they pick them off one-by-one, and both definitely have max points in stealth. Jason can also canonically teleport when people aren't looking.

Party wizard goes off to gather some ingredients? Jason comes up from behind and impales them to a tree. Rogue sneaks off to find an alternate entrance to a castle? He'll never see Michael coming up behind him.

user, D&D is a setting where a mid-level PC could reasonably eat a ballista bolt to the face and keep kicking.

These aren't some namby pamby teenagers out for a hike, they're dragon slayers who collect ogre teeth for fun.

Freddy. Most parties are specced for combat, not will power tests.

Then you have the problem. These killers don't fight people. When they fight, they lose. They only fight once, and it's at the end of the film. Up to that point, they kill people. Nobody stands a chance. That Dagger Myers has does enough damage to one-hit Pelor. Unless you're the last person alive. is right in his assessment. If any of these three Killers walked into a room with a party in it that was ready to fight, they'd get minced. The only film however, where Jason teleports onscreen is Part 8. And Part 8 is a shit film that ends with Jason melting into a child.

I appreciate this post however.

user, you’re being That Kid right now.
I don’t think anyone’s going to dispute that a party in a realistic setting, or a low power party, is going to get slaughtered by Jason or Myers, but only Freddy is any threat to a mid level plus party in a high power setting.

You'd be surprised how scary a slasher can be, user.
I once had a slasher style character as a villain in a super hero FATE game I ran, and he was the toughest challenge to the party. Basically immune to harm, always got up from whatever was thrown at him, utterly relenting in attacking the party night and day, but never ran and only used close melee weapons.

Define normal? Define party?
Mid level D&D3.5?
Mid level AD&D?
Low level 5e?
Low points super game in GURPS?
That one weirdo who plays high level anima?
Exalted?

Tl;DR: Specify rules and setting cuckboi.

Having a slasher tailored towards a certain party would definitely be a damn good encounter, but the point is that Jason and Myers as we know them probably wouldn’t be that slasher once a group hits a certain level.
While they do ambush a large amount of victims, they also kill many more when the victim knows they’re there but can do jack shit about it; in that scenario, any PC beyond normal human capability would be on a far more even footing, especially if their group was relatively close by.

To contrast, if Freddy gets his hands on you you’re screwed, unless you’re either personally powerful enough to break through his control of the dream, or have a patron powerful and willing enough to shield you. Either way would be largely GM Fiat.

I'd say if you're going to have a Villain that is Jason, or to a lesser extent Myers, then you owe it to yourself to portray them accurately. The characters may have lost their initial scale/serious factor and seem quaint now, but ingame there's nothing funny about Jason with a bear-trap around his leg still cutting someone in half. You make a distinction between "this guy has a trait that makes him nearly unkillable and he regens X HP a turn but is weak to someone dressing up as his Mum", and someone being Jason Vorhees. The Rogue may be stealthy and vanishes in the blink of an eye, but Michael Myers is still hidden under the Stairs.

If you're running a game and the people grossly outscale the threat of a guy in a mask with a bladed inplement and you throw Jason/Michael against them, you either break the rules over your knee to ensure you're putting the players in a faithful scenario to the legacy of those characters, or there's no point in using said characters. Simple as.

I won't dispute that on paper Freddy would scale best to match any party however. But Freddy always had the weakest endings in any film. It's befitting that he job it in the final act.

It's a pretty tough choice. I want to say Freddy since he could bypass any physical attributes and completely evade traditional combat. His strengths are situational, but he only needs one shot.

Jason is by far the most straightforward and while he could be pretty easily wailed on, being effectively immortal means that even if he fails a couple dozen times, sooner or later, he's gonna gank a couple PCs.

Myers could probably get the jump on people for a good scare, but I don't think he'd be much more than a goon that could punish really reckless PCs.

Lurk moar newfag

>Freddy
Okay, so Micheal Myers is literally an avatar of a Death God that Resides in the Big Dipper who wields a mark that over time via cultivation from the cult of thorn, is eventually to come of age and perform the ritual to appease the god, which is the sacrifice of his native bloodline.

To explain that a bit better, you know that quote Dr. Loomis doesn't shtu up about? The staring window thing?

Micheal was literally watching a fucking hardcore kill montage of all of his predecessors who previously wielded the mark, and it fucked his brain over into a fucking death machine. hence why he can't die, so long as he wields the mark of thorn. Those rare moments of humanity he has is when the programmign stops, but he can't actually escape it unless a new host is to wield the power.

Jason is a fucking infinity Matrix Plot Device Revenant that will continue to return from the dead because of his date of birth, and even in the event of total destruction can be reconstituted by the lake he drowned, and get's limitless saves against any form of given control- in effect, Jason is pesduo-immortal to the point where he exists as an objective memetic force around the area which he haunts, but to put it Blunty, he's literally a naturally Occuring Flesh Golem that became a Psionic undead, then a Flesh Golem again, then a Fiendish Undead Psionic Flesh Golem, then an actual Revenant, (probably still has some of his prior qualties anyhow) and then a Revenant Construct.

In effect, Jason's base statblock is determined by his means of resurrection- unless it's a recurring adventure where he survived.

Micheal Myers is the most inconspicuous of all these slashers as he's relatively an augmented Humanoid with literal deific benefits and almost nothing on him- worseso because of the secrecy of the thorn cult- he's in effect, the western version of Shiki Tohno.

Jason Doesn't go far, if not for his mother, so only encountering him in the woods is the worst risk at hand-

Freddy is only strong in his dreamworld- though lately the better part of his powers involve him manipulating others to blur the lines and bring people on an equal playing ground by abusing subtle effects in the waking world- He's basically a Fiendish Rogue (Warlock?) Human with some ability to shapeshift and use illusions at best guess- and he's also capable of Some form of astral projection/Animation of the dead (revive undead from Libris Mortis?) seeing as he brought back Jason a fullblown Revenant (though still lacking in the mentality department)

When he's out of the dream, he has no (SU's) or supernatural tier abilities, and is pretty limitied, though given FvJ, He can take the hurt-

In effect, he's a Demon that actually exists in D&D in some manner, look up the Demiplane of Nightmares and how Dreams in D&D work- Freddy could work the angle.

Freddies biggest goal is namely, spreading his influence, because he can't work his mojo outside of his memetic fear force thing.

Then there's Demon Freddy, which- technically is more valid, because Freddy was made by three nondescript evil outsiders making a pact- and I think going fullblown Acoloyte of the Skin on the dude.

But given that Freddy Attacks DURIGN PC DOWNTIME- then unless you've got divinations at hand and astral projection and the like, the Party is FUCKING DEAD.

Also, The Sleep spell is now your worst enemy.

Yeah, if you stuck around more you'd learn that asking for specifics makes you a terrible person and we don't actually know shit about the games we talk about because none of us actually play.

Then knock it off you cunt

See, I think people are missing what a stat block for a slasher should look like to represent them the best.

I think the best way to do slashers in DnD should be something like:
Instead of getting sneak attack damage, if a slasher attacks a foe who is unaware of their presence, the victim is automatically killed.

They're super stealthy and kill with ease, but if you're aware of them, you can get away/lure them into a trap.

Matter of fact, I'd say the best representation of what Jason vs. a bunch of PCs would be is when he picks off the Space Marine squad in Jason X. And that's even before he's Uber Jason.

Normies have dragged him back to the waking world multiple times, where je's easily killable. I'm a sure a magic user or something could do the same with ease. RAW I think you can eliminate he need for sleep by abusing restoration or something.

Reading this, if I were to do a Slasher in 5e I think I would just use the Revenant stat block, give it Damage Resistance to everything (save maybe Radiant damage), Immunity to Pyschic damage and charm/mind control. Maybe even an immunity/affinity to necrotic damage (Perhaps healed by it?). Maybe even give it at will teleportation, but it can only use it out of sight (Which is why it knows someone is there even if it can't see them). Give it a high-level sneak, and give it some gnarly sneak attack damage.

It probably needs a glaring weakness that isn't radiant. Maybe the party just needs to survive until morning/until they leave its territory. Maybe something connected to who they were before they became a killing machine.

Now this is where we have to disagree. Oh I'm fine with your power ranking, much as I hate to use the term here, but while Freddy is on top of the game the moment the DM says, "And all of your dice rolls suddenly turn into Nat 1 whatever you roll because it's a niiiiightmare! MWAHAHAHAHA," and then someone puts out his eye with a cheeto. Game over, man.

Freddy can't target anyone who's immune to sleep, which includes elves.

That's not really true. The ending of the first movie is just a dream, so it only happens in the sixth. There he's dragged out by his daughter who he wasn't seriously trying to kill until it happened.

He still feeds off of fear, so as long as you aren't immune to Cause Fear you'd probably end up feeding him. He'd probably set himself up a nice little Dream Cult to do his bidding. Not entirely out of line for him, at least if you consider when he used Jason to feed himself, at least until they started competing for kills. Cultists would certainly be effective and aren't competition. It's doable.

>Jason

Only targets people who fuck with his gay lake and have teen/twenty-something sex.

>Michael Meyers

Only targets his family members and can be incapacitated with raw force.

>Freddy

Targets anyone who seems fun and can attack you in your dreams, where physical laws do not apply.

Gee, what do you think?

This. Jason's my favorite of the group, but he's just an undead colossus.

>Targets anyone who seems fun and can attack you in your dreams, where physical laws do not apply.

>Party opens dimensional portal to the Dream Realm, proceeds to sodomize him with a rusty rake

I'm sure there are crueler things you can do to him, that one is just off the top of my head. At any rate he'll come back because they always do in the movie, so at least he has that.

>enter the dream realm
>realise that Freddy calls the shots and your powers don't mean shit anymore
>Freddy turns you into a leaf pile and chases you with the same rake you brought in
Can't say that's a smart idea

They actually made a movie based on that concept, Dream Warriors. Probably the only good sequel.

The tl;dr is Freddy has been doing it longer so he's not unfamiliar with the concept.

Why don't their powers mean shit anymore?

Freddy has power over you when you're asleep, he manipulates your dream form which can symbolically harm or kill your real body. It's as deadly as a psycho owning a voodoo doll of you. If you enter the Dream Realm while awake why do you think it would be more real as a box of funhouse props?

They also pull him into the real world in Freddy vs Jason.

A new challenger appears.

Because dream magic I ain't gotta explain shit. I'd say you have to pass a HUGE will/charisma save to be able to remain at you're full, awake power. And if this is fifth, the dream realm affords Freddy a boatload of lair actions.

To be fair Dream Warriors was about learning to control their dreams to fight Freddy on similar footing, or at least as much as they could manage. It's different if one were to consider a dream plane as something you could open a portal to as another dimension, though whether that's even possible depends on the game.

You're entering his personal playground that he manipulates. He can normally only do this when you're asleep, but he'd jump for joy if someone did his work for him and entered willingly.
What on Earth makes you think that's a good idea?

Level 1 rogue at best.
Remember, slasher protagonists aren't classed pcs. They're a bunch of unlevelled npcs.
Ash, Tommy Jarvis, and Nancy reached level one by the ends of their first movies.

>Ghostface spends a fortnight trying to figure out where the damn phone is so he can call potential victims
>finally gives up and tries courier delivered letters
>his first response is, "What dost thine mean by 'movie', sirrah?"
>realizes this is going to take a long damn time to explain
>two days later he dies of dysentery
>total kill count: himself

user, if we take a Dream Realm as an abstract place, he still only has a subset of that actual realm to use as his murder playpen. He isn't, for instance, that world's God of Dreams. People still happily have dreams and even nightmares without him. He has, at most, the power of suggestion and symbolic magic. A low class demonic entity that feeds off of fear.

I mean he's still powerful, sure, but hardly the worst thing most D&D realms have to offer. We've already had people agree not to overplay Jason, let's not start jerking off Freddy now.

Freddy, being able to attack them in their dreams is huge. The other two would promptly get bodies thrown at them until something sticks

>user, if we take a Dream Realm as an abstract place,
The dream Realm doesn't exist in as a D&D plane, from what I recall the movies showing.
Freddy just gatecrashes your dreams and murders you, and without knowledge of him there's pretty much nothing you can do to stop him

Freddy, everyone else can just run the fuck of them

>Freddy tries to murder the group's mage in her dreams
>she casts Sleep on Freddy
>Freddy is now trapped in his own dream
>the team from Inception suddenly arrives and shoots his ass

Whether or not they kill him is irrelevant, eventually he'll be reduced to a gibbering mess shouting, "PLEASE MAKE THE BWAHMING STOP!"

He does have the power of being able to make more than one good sequel.

Given that Freddy didn't let Death stop him from fucking with people, I can't imagine him having low enough saves for that to work.

Cringiest shit I've read in awhile. Well that's enough Veeky Forums for today.

This is a good-ass thread. How would you guys incorporate NPCs like the three slashers into, say, Curse of Strahd?

Bullshit. You've seen the movies, right? Eventually someone meets him in their dreams, gets fucked up a bit, but then someone wakes them up before Freddy can seal the deal. They return to the waking world with knowledge of who he is and have the wounds to convince the others. They then go on a quest to defeat him, or just start taking drugs that keep them awake.

In many ways it's actually worse for him if he tries to replace D&D rules with his own films because then he's forced to play by movie rules which mean eventually, most likely through a series of contrived plot devices, the plucky youngsters figure out how to (temporarily) defeat him until the sequel.

Looks like someone just got BRAAAAAMed!

youtube.com/watch?v=830I9w7I7wM

Hello, Wizard. I want to play a game. The room you're standing in is coated in Dispel Magic mist. The floor below you is covered with rusted nails. Next to you is a locked door. The key is below a heavy stone in the center of the room.

Now you will walk the path of the Fighters you so derided.

Freddy's his own worst enemy.
When he goes straight for the kill, like in most of the first movie, his victims are dead in under a minute.
It's when he toys with people that they ever have a chance, and even then that's mostly just for his din dins.

That would translate terribly in a game, because the players would have to be saved by the GM until they're allowed to fight back.

All you have to do is rely on dramatic plot devices and action one-liners. Just say, "This is your nightmare now, bitch!" and his saving roll will automatically come up 1.

It's just the way this shit works. It's stupid, but there we are.

In all but the last few Jason movies, he gets the shit beat out of him.

In 4 its almost funny how he’s like a 3 Stooges version of Mike Meyers.

Freddy would require magic and ample WILL to beat.
Mike is a low level encounter, dangerous only to NPCs.
Jason lore is too inconsistent, but generally can be dispatched albeit not permanently.

>Sorry Kid, I don't watch horror movies
Trying one liners against Freddy is asking for it, unless you're the designated protagonist.
Even if you are, chances are he'll come back and kill you in a few years

protect from evil spell

Most difficult since it takes you actually using player intelligence to puzzle out who in the village is a killer.

Not dangerous to the party themselves in the slightest however.

Ravenloft fuckery.

Freddy needs no explanation. Mike and Jason are just in their own planes, which Ravenloft shoves into Strahd’s because the entire plane is there to punish everyone in it including them.

No no, user, you have to wait until the right moment. He still gets to kill off most of the players before it will work and he's overconfident, at which point he gets a dramatic comeuppance and possibly even an ironic defeat. Then this releases all the souls of the players he's consumed and you're free to have them resurrected unless you'd prefer to pawn all their gear, which you could do anyway but you'd have to listen to them bitch afterward. Just tell them it was to pay for the resurrection fee, though, as long as they don't look at your receipts.

Still if Freddy is lucky he'll get a stinger ending where the player realizes he or she is still trapped in the nightmare, but he has to roll pretty damn lucky for that to happen otherwise it could end in a subverted stinger where it was just a regular nightmare and he's still dead.

I CAST FIST!

Wow, it defeated the anti-magic mist. How amazing!

Why are you raising the bad guys powerlevels?

Use the slasher in a low level story arc, it'll be more memorable than the usual goblin slog

Sorry, Frederick, but a challenger has appeared! He won't let you murder all the childrens because he needs them to slave away at this giant clock!

youtube.com/watch?v=Uc7dcvGAZ_U

A challenger challenger appears

3e CoS already has one, the crazy axeman in the woods.

Pic semi related in the idea of another way to execute a slasher in an RPG.

Suddenly challenged thread. Weird.

The problem, such as it is, is that any PC is by default the "designated protagonist" while at the same time Freddy is used to dining on level 1 commoners, so he's got a spicier meal to deal with.

I'm putting together a post apocalypse game and this thread inspired me to add Jason to it. No gussying him up as anything. Just Jason Vorhees still haunting the dried remains of Crustal Lake.

Scream or Halloween work better as a basis because the PCs are the cops, or Loomis. You’re protecting the scrubs.

Are you going to resolve the Jason continuity problem?

What problem?

This raises some interesting points. Freddy can declare himself the Dream Master and the nightmare they'll never wake up for, but your typical fantasy peasant pretty much lives under that threat on a daily basis. Famine, disease, demons, dragons, the undead, orc armies, those fucking elves, etc, and with only the thin line of murder hobos holding back the darkness, only those guys are fucking insane and seem to be doing it mostly for the lulz, whatever the hells those are (thanks, Kevin, you metagaming bastard), so frankly I'm not sure Freddy can generate enough fear of himself to sustain his existence. Most commoners would probably view him as a sweet release from their shitty lives.

Jason’s mask had great continuity in every movie it was in, showing every nick and burn it got through the series.

But Jason himself changes drastically. Clothing, height, how deformed he is, whether he’s alive or undead, how strong he is, how intelligent.

A dropped plot they kept sort of coming back to is Jason is different killers. They even imply one of the survivors will become him at one point.

Its only at the end where he’s an unstoppable zombie retard that was the boy who drowned.

I don’t know if you can tolerate James Rolfe when he’s not playing the AVGN character, but he goes into it in the Monster Madness review of the series.

youtu.be/9NdcnriTbs8

Oh, that. I dig James' Monster Madness, but I never had this problem personally. I can see through the problems of filmmaking on the cheap to accept that the Jason we see from 2-4 and 6 on are the same guy. The kid at the end of the first movie is just a hallucination of a scared and tired girl. I mean, she's bone dry when it cuts back to her in the boat. He's alive through his first three appearances.

Well it was always weird given he should be a water bloated child corpse rather than a seven foot tall murder zombie, but that's weird lake magic or whatever for you.

While a joke, I do wonder about this. Freddy operates by generating fear within otherwise idyllic American suburbia, thus it isn't just that he's a fear ghost who hunts you in your dreams, it's being afraid in an environment where you aren't normally used to living under constant threat. This generates a practically orgasmic feast for Freddy. I'm not sure how much healthy he'd be in an environment already used to fear, in some ways inured to nightmarish terrors, or if he'd be fine glomming off the general malaise of the populace.

>wizards punching anything
Top laffs.

Its certainly a better idea than him being the antichrist who lost his chance to bring the apocalypse because he was too busy Roy Mooring around.

Look at this pleb who has never met a muscle wizard! Point at him and laugh!

Perhaps he'll only target the wealthy and nobility who can afford to live more in safety.

Jason is always alive until Part 4. Part 6 he is resurrected and is Undead from then on it. Part 9 gets a bit funky I'll grant you that. The obvious reason behind height changes is that the actor portraying him changed. I can't recall any moments where his Intelligence is shown to be hampered or advanced in any way however, Jason has a pretty rudimentary but robust mental skillset, he knows how tools work, electrical cabling and that's about it.

Jason being different killers is implied in 4 and carried out in 5. 4 implies that the kid who killed Jason, Tommy Jarvis, ends up donning the mask and killing people, but it's an end of film stinger that isn't elaborated on any further. Part 5 has a Cop don the mask to avenge his retarded Sons death. Part 6, Tommy Jarvis accidentally resurrects Jason and then he drowns him at the end of the film. He was not Jason.

Everything beyond the first film wasn't considered when they made the first film. Jason jumping out of the lake was a final scare/sequel bait. When people took the bait the filmmakers had to accept that Pamela Vorhees thought her Son was dead, but he'd been running around in the woods for 20 years as a feral child who grew into a six and a half foot tall murder machine.

>>Be elf Cleric
>>Not effected by sleep effects
>>smite evil or turn undead to the other brutes

No contest

Freddy still kills everyone who isn’t an Elf that you love (since we’re talking D&D and not Warhammer Elves do love non-Elves). He may also possess someone.

Also, the other Elves become part of a Scream group to kill the rest of the Elves.

Lack of genetic diversity results in Elves devolving into the Lolthlorien Chainsaw Massacre.

There's some room here, but now he's competing for the death of the comely teenage princess with the local dark lord, ransom gone wrong, that one party who for some reason figured that the princess could survive a fireball hurled at the bad guy using her as a shield, and dragons. And that's just a few!

Yet Freddy lost to Jason in the best movie of both series.

Granted "lost" doesn't mean killed, because they're both effectively immortal.

Freddy did get stuck in the real world, at least. He "won" when Jason was stuck in the dream world.

Nobody kidnaps princes.

But hinestly, the group to target most are non-combat monks. They’ll feel the most fear, although its tempered by acceptance of their fate and faith that they’ll soon be with their god.

You're an elf. Everyone you love who is not an elf is more or less the love you bestow on a cherished pet. Okay, he killed your human but that's okay you can always buy a new one at the market.

Found the weakass pussy fighter in the thread!

To be fair most people are focused on kidnapping the fair princess (male).

Freddy, feel like the other two would just get stomped honestly.

Jason was being helped pretty heavily in the final fight.

Jason still took a hell of a beating that non-wizard PC's dish out, even at high levels in the Dream, especially considering that what happens in the dream happens IRL.

Yeah, Freddy was certainly having a blast beating the absolute shit out of Jason, but the fucker wouldn't die, and was only truly defeated when he accidentally stumbled upon Jason's fear of water (Which wasn't a thing until that movie, funny enough, but at least it sort of makes sense considering how many times water "kills" him.)

youtube.com/watch?v=5gdzR73BMYI

Good point, though I don't recall the teens doing too much except providing openings for Jason now and then.

If anything, Freddy would work well against murderhobo parties that don't really think things through, allowing Freddy to prey off their stupidity with impunity.

Jason would work well against a group that lacks stamina. Yeah they'll defeat Jason repeatedly, but it only takes a moment of laxity or one failed Perception check for Jason to sneak up on the party while they're camping in the woods.

I can't say anything about Meyers though, I haven't seen the Halloween movies.

Well first movie she still more or less beat him. Freddy just got away with murdering her friends and mother.

Honestly think Myers or Jason work better if the PC's are trying to keep other people safe from the two of them.
If you give the people they're trying to keep alive standard horror movie intelligence, all the better.

As an aside, xenomorph best horror enemy for RPG's.

Freddy declaring himself DM (dreammaster) over the party could actually make for some really fun shit.