WHO IS THE TRUE GOD-EMPEROR?

Cleon II

Big E wins this one. First, he's closer to being an actual God than Leto was. They are both powerful psykers, but Leto's psychic abilities are pretty much limited to seeing the future, whereas psychic powers in WH 40k are basically straight-up magic, and thus I would consisee them to be closer to being Godlike.

Also, Leto's power and longevity came at the price of him sometimes losing control of himself and having "the Worm" control his actions, whereas Emps power came basically with zero caveats.

That said, Leto is a more interesting and realistic character, but in a comparison of which of the two is more like a God Emperor, Emps wins.

Guys what is the emperor's name

The one who actually succeeded in his plan. He also has the benefit of not being written for a bunch of 14 year old.

As pointed out, Leto was a better emperor, though as you said big E was a better diety for his warp shenanigans.

I'd still rather serve under Leto than E though.

Leto, he actually did what he set out to do without fucking it all up horribly. Granted, he caused Space Sex Ninja Mongolians as a result, but at least he curbstomped the concept of prescience flat so such a dumb thing could actually happen to begin with.

Dave

Leto successfully led humanity to the Golden Path, and without needless xeno slaughter. Even his death was part of his plan.

Emps wound up as a dead guy powering a lighthouse for the benefit of an imperium he believes is inevitably doomed to fail.

Leto is an abomination disguised as a god, the emperor achieved true god status

Both of these are correct.

>a dead guy powering a lighthouse for the benefit of an imperium he believes is inevitably doomed to fail.
It'd be funny if the rest of the lore wasn't shit.

uuuuuhhhhhh lemme get a quick rundown on Leto

Neither

>Emps was still just an overpowered child when after 20 millennia of fucking around he decided that its time to steamroll humanity into a unified empire.
Your fanfiction. It's always stated that the Emperor was manipulating things from the shadows. Basically you could argue that all human developement is thanks to the Emperor influencing from the side.
>He lacked true vision -as some of the primarchs realised- beyond wanting to see his flag on every sandcastle.
What? Emperors plan was quite simple. Conquer all of galaxy --> make the webway usable for humans --> starve out the chaos gods ---> bring humanity to an eternal bliss
>as some of the primarchs realised
oh lol you're just some butthur chaosfag. Please don't start the "LE UNDEFEATABLE PRIMORDIAL FORCE OF DA UNIVERSE" screeching.

The Golden Path is something I wish 40k ripped off, I try to incorporate it into my roleplay characters

Isn't he a bunch of paleolithic shamans' reincarnation or something? It's probably "Ugg" or "Thog" or something

>fun is HERESY

>and without needless xeno slaughter
To be fair in Dune there are no xenos to slaughter, and he killed billions of his own people to enforce the most totalitarian regime in human history. The important thing to remember though is unlike Big E, Leto actually succeeded with his plans and actually saved humanity from itself, something the Emperor could never do.

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand The Golden Path. Guldur's plan is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of politics and sociology most of the schemes will go over a typical believer's head. There's also Leto's religious outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation - his personal philosophy draws heavily from the parliament of ancestors possessing him, for instance. The worshippers understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these feints within feints, to realize that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike The God Emperor truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the wisdom in the Old Worm's existencial catchphrase "I hear the wind blowing across the desert and I see the moons of a winter night rising like great ships in the void. To them I make my vow: I will be resolute and make an art of government; I will balance my inherited past and become a perfect storehouse of my relic memories. And I will be known for kindliness more than for knowledge. My face will shine down the corridors of time for as long as humans exist." which itself is a cryptic reference to the Orange Catholic Bible. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Muad'dib's genius unfolds itself on their solido projectors. What fools... how I pity them. And yes by the way, I DO have a God Emperor tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the Fish Speakers' eyes only- And even they have to demonstrate that SIAYNOQ, I BELIEVE beforehand.

Your meme is shit

You're shit

>The Golden Path is something I wish 40k ripped off
I'm honestly surprised they didn't, they took almost everything else from Dune besides the worms and spice.

>no Brian/KJA schlock
You're alright.

You're alright

whichever one has been molested the least by the fucking hack brian herbert

...

This is correct

>expanded duniverse
NOT ON THIS BOARD
GET OUT

Chapterhouse was the best dune prove me wrong

They weren't the best but both Chapterhouse and Heretics tried to allow the setting to evolve and demonstrate how the trends established in the previous novels would play out, which I respect them for

Objective ranking of canons
Dune (only the original) > Classic Dune > An actual dune > Expanded Dune

>Leto set out to not only ensure humanity but to teach them by example
I always wondered how long would it take humanity to forget Leto's lesson

The point was that even after he'd been long forgotten humanity was now too big and widespread to fail.
But people have long, long memories in Dune (even without all the genetic memory shit going on). If they still remember the Butlerian Jihad by the time of the last books, they probably won't ever forget Leto.

The Foundation laughs at the antiquated notion of Empire. Would you like to buy some tech?

>56%

Leto wouldn't let his Fishspeaker waifu army go without plastics for 20 years. Honoured Matres would still have manfaces though for being furfags.

While it's not meant to be seen as a good thing, this was deliberate on Leto's part. He intentionally leaned so hard on humanity, made life in his empire essentially one of fear and torment that he forced mankind to either get up out of it's rut and start swinging, or die. He forced humanity to accept uncertainty and fear, and to adapt to face whatever the universe threw at them.

Big E on the other hand, tried to force humanity to the mold he made for it, and tried to keep humanity protected by chaining it to his will.

>not including the dune vidya games as tiers of canon

They're still better than Expanded Dune.

Daily reminder your emperor actually looks like this.
Daily reminder that he hasn't done jack shit in over 10 thousand years and everything he died fighting for has been rotting from the inside out.
Daily reminder that not even Bobby G can fix it.

Bet they'd still have more updates models than SoB

A Dune wargame would be fucking awesome honestly, but a couple of the factions would need some more fleshing out. Ironically the Bene Tleilax would be the easiest to translate over since their parts in the books were almost entirely about their military and spy capabilities so you'd have a lot to go on. The Fremen are another easy force to go on, along with the Sardaukar and Fish Speakers.

Humans still rule the galaxy. We win.

>missed the point of the whole setting
Humans are losing, slowly. Along with all the "good" factions - everyone in 40k is doomed.

...

>Humans are losing

Humans rule the galaxy. Period. The Imperium still stands.

>everyone in 40k is doomed

That's for the future. In the end, the Universe will end for everyone when GW goes out of business.

man all your shit's retarded, my goal is to make self replicating machines that sacrifice humanity en-masse to an as of yet unseen god in a ritual so grand and precise it can only be done by a race of machines.

>thinking machines
>standing up to the honored matres' pussy game

>cringe is HERESY

You had a little typo, friend. Fixed that fir you.

>period
Aside from all the parts they don't rule, because they're ork infested, part of the Tau Empire, a crone world, a necron world, a chaos realm, a (currently) secular rebellion etc etc etc.
They're much, much bigger than everyone else, sure. But they're not winning, they're just not quite truly losing yet.

The only true answer

Dudes not even decked out in gold, not my emperor...

One is a piece shit from a shit franchise that's created by GW and the other is from the best sci-fi series in existence.

>Tell me Veeky Forums, who is the TRUE God-Emperor, and why?

I don't remember either being in Lensman

Actually is right, and believe me i hate how wanked up is chaos compared to the other factions. The emperor has been portrayed (even in books about him mind you, such as Master of Mankind) as a flat out retarded fedora tipping moron at best.
While his achievements are fairly impressive, the Emprah has sadly become a parody of an incompetent ruler due to poor writing, so Leto wins if only out of actually getting his and mankind's shit together.

Neither, true humans are loyal only to Muad'Dib.

>no God Emperor Trump
Veeky Forums I'm ____proud____

Leto claimed that he would die four deaths; the death of his flesh, his soul, his myth, and his reason. Even if humanity at some point would forget about him and how he shaped the human race, he will have left such a significant impact that it almost doesn't matter.

There was one, but I suppose it got deleted. No replies, though.

This is actually the actual legitimate objective ranking of the canons though (unless you ask Brian)
Anyone who says otherwise is literally retarded.

So I just finished re-reading Dune for the first time. Is there anyone else who feels like the ending was kinda meh?

Leto, obviously. He is no more likable, but at least he succeeded at what he set out to do.

I'd reached God Empeor by that age (possibly younger) and loved it tho

You lessen yourself by being captivated by the messiah and worshiping him.

weird how you never see them both in the same room huh

Shit, they even have the same constipated face. It all makes sense now.

I wasn't taking the piss when I said it, the first book was one of the greatest sci-fi works ever, the Frank sequels were very good but didn't quite capture the same feeling the original did. And the less said about his son's fanfiction, the better.

It wrapped things up nicely while setting up for a sequel, but I can see what you mean. Paul got basically everything he wanted in one fell swoop and it would have been cool to see Fenring at least try to fight Paul like Shaddam wanted him to. It seemed like a cop-out that Fenring would just roll over and let his personal friend and emperor get fucked over just because he knows Paul is better than him.

Dune>Messiah to Emperor>Heretics and chapterhouse
and that's it that's the entire series

>same feeling
Doesn't it make sense for them to not do that? The books radically change the circumstances the protagonist is dealing with.

I felt the second book had the strongest ending of all of them. One of the few books that had me deeply sad when I finished it, what with Paul passing his sight on to his children, then wandering off into the desert to die. Course the next book undoes that, but it was damn sure something when I read it the first time.

Duncan overcoming the Tleilaxu conditioning and choosing not to kill Paul was also pretty fucking great and set up how the Tleilax ran shit from then on.

You're right, I didn't express what I meant properly.
The later books take the philosophy and worldview presented in Dune and twist it and twist it until they've turned it completely on its head. Consequently each book gets a bit weaker (although the second book as points out ends very strongly) as time goes on.

Pretty much.

user meant the general tone and themes of philosophy, statecraft, and the greater good. The Dune books, especially towards the end, feel like huge stretches of stream-of-consciousness philosophical rambling, with events around them either being totally random or meticulously premeditated.
The expanded duniverse are written like normal books. They don't have anything near the feel of the original novels. For the far-flung prequel series, this could be excusable if they were still really good and didn't pull medichlorians-level prequel fuckup on a gigantic scale, but for the interquels and sequels the tonal dissonance is inexcusable. They just don't feel like they belong, from the story to the storytelling.

As usual, another user expresses how I feel better than I ever could.

Hail!

>Humans still rule the galaxy
Well, parts of it. You're still outnumbered by Orks, Nids and potentially Necrons, and there's a massive star empire of spiders literally on your doorstep who just haven't decided to fuck you up yet because they hate the Deldar even more.

>and there's a massive star empire of spiders literally on your doorstep
wait what

considering I know very little about 40k lore
the guy that looks like a dick
because he looks like a dick

>the guy that looks like a dick
your gonna have to be more specific

I think he means the guy who looks like a literal dick, not a philosophical dick

>no one mentioning the fact that 40k Emp's enemies are untold magnitudes more threatening than anything Leto faced

you can say Emps is written badly, but the simple fact is that this near-God only lost because he was competing with 4 actual bonafide Gods

you can't really win against that

It's easy, those gods are psionic entities formed by the collective life of the galaxy.

Sure, they claim to be across the entire universe, but they are well known for lying and all evidence indicates they require the mortal realm feeding them to survive.

Just necron it and they're done.

I read the first 3 dune books is it worth reading anymore?

I'm no literautre expert, the first book was one of the best I ever read, staggeringly ahead of it's time, trend setting and imaginative. But i grew quite weary until I was rolling my eyes as Paul (?) gets absorbed by sand frogs and becomes a worm monster. Still some great stuff in the book but laced with nonsense. Or am I just a philistine?

Spiders??

In one of the Bequin books, I think they say the Emperor's name is actually a super powerful magick word that can fuck up reality, or something like that.

Yeah, Spiders?

Man, it makes humanity sound so inept when most of our developments are down to one guy overclocked by half magical means.

Aside from the Last Church, how many novels have touched into Emps as a person or his character? Not as seen by his kiddies, but Emps being the main character with his own internal monologues and all?

Well, Empy intended to create a perfect humanity that would conquer the universe.

Leto intended to create such a despotic empire that mankind would not forget it and finally learn a deeply needed lesson on a genetic level.