Weekend Warcraft Lore General

lordaeron seems to be more militarized than stormwind, but that might just be the second war and it's aftermath.

He didn't kill himself in nagrand

Inb4

>Giant [race] cock
>GREENED
>Everything after Vanilla was bad
>Everything after Warcraft III was bad
>Everything after Warcraft II was bad
>How would you run your campaign different from canon?
>Orcs are black people lmao

Only things ever said in these threads in the past, but maybe just keeping them to the weekends will keep the discussion more varied.

>>How would you run your campaign different from canon?
well, how would you?

Keeping the night elves and Forsaken independent would be the primary thing.

forsaken seem too fucking weak to do anything
I would love a Scarlet crusade led campaign where the PCs eventually unmask the nathrezim but purge lordaeron

Stormwind barely won a war against gnolls

Bolvar > Arthas
EBON PRIDE WORLDWIDE

Yeah, the way I would see the situation in Lordaeron post-Warcraft III is basically just constant chaos between the Forsaken, Scourge, and living Lordaeronians. I can't see the Forsaken actually appealing to the Horde for help though, since a fair amount of them probably have relatively fresh memories of the Second War. So, I would think the Forsaken would be focused on either raising more undead as Sylvanas does in WoW, and/or trying to find ways to liberate more from the Scourge.

The living Lordaeronians would probably be united by the Scarlet Crusade prior to their descent into paranoia, and probably see aid from Stormwind after a few years. I also wouldn't be opposed to using Calia Menethil as a rallying leader.

The blood elves would either stay loyal to Kael'thas, or possibly turn back to the reformed Alliance now that it has its leadership back in order, if nothing else to gain some support from the constant chaos leaking into their borders, as well as the Scourge that still creep around their kingdom.

Neither of this Forsaken are the descendants of Lordaeron, no getting around that. Where you are getting around is in terms of how they see Sylvanas/themselves. I actually like the idea of the devout people of Lordaeron trying to find themselves after becoming undead and then freed. Undercity would be filled with deathmasks and elaborate iconography and religious symbolism from people trying to retain identity after death. Just cut "living Lordaeron" out of the equation all together, the kingdom is dead and should stay dead. The idea of "RETAKE LORDAERON WHEN?!!!" has been there since vanilla and never made any more sense than it did than, Lordaeron's legacy would be better put to use serving making the Forsaken more interesting than justifying some half-assed invasion.

Scarlet Crusade was fine as it was, emphasize their unwillingness to compromise with anyone.

Sylvanas, as the kicker...was...okay until Legion. Was she kinda evil? Sure, but if you made sure to make the Forsaken something beyond what she was, just say that she's their leader due to skill and reputation, but she's not 100 percent what defines them. She was okay being the evil person in the Horde until Cata/MoP when they made the Horde evil, just doesn't work out at that point. Bring back WC2 Genn Greymane who was an asshole and willing to be a dick to his allies, have them and their cursed states hate each other.

That's just Forsaken, my ideas for belves involve 2000AD and Babylon 5...

no he isn't.
Ebin blade lost most of it's purpose with the end o WoTLK
Them sitting it out while sylvanas ran around replaguing the plaguelands is some extremely bad brainlet behaviour from blizzard.

Honestly this. Forsaken are pretty interesting when you get past shallow "Ze Mad Doktor" memes and remember Sylvanas does not represent them entirely.

Plus to be honest, I'm getting really tired of Scarletfags harping on and on with their "DEUS VULT RETAKE LORDAERON NOW FOR THE ALLIANCE".

Hey geniuses, the Scarlet Crusade are a bunch of zealous usurpers who hate the Alliance and only want Lordaeron for themselves. White knighting them is like going to bat for the fucking quillboars.

except that the scarlet crusade in vanilla even had representatives with the alliance and was on not so bad terms with the argent crusade for the most part, including the scarlet emissary in desolace hiring presumably night elf adventurers to help the crusade and by extension the alliance.

Be that as it may, they're still antagonistic dicks who openly advocate for genocide. Plus it's pretty obvious that good will decayed.

Yeah, the Forsaken are shady. But they aren't the Scourge. FFS there are Forsaken members of the Argent Dawn.

I get having an issue with the Forsaken. The game itself refers to them as evil. But I get annoyed with people who treat them as just a base enemy NPC organization on the same level as gnolls or centaurs. There's a lot going on with them.

Reminder to use the DARKNE- I mean, Void. It is much better than the Light.

>I get having an issue with the Forsaken. The game itself refers to them as evil. But I get annoyed with people who treat them as just a base enemy NPC organization on the same level as gnolls or centaurs. There's a lot going on with them.

there are good centaur though

>remember that one comic with the one who joined the Horde
>he had Thor'idal
>never showed up in game, when even the YAIRH reference got in

What was going on there?

Dryads/Grove Keepers for Alliance and Centaurs for Horde when?

That's right, fellow woke individual, have you considered joining the Illidari? We need more with high IQs who realize that the LIEte and those who follow it are blind and dumb.

>Dryads/Grove Keepers for Alliance and Centaurs for Horde when?

the same time they make naga playable: when they can be bothered to make a bunch of new textures for whatever passes for leggings among those races

>Illidan in Legion
>the Windchimes
>everything with Garrosh
>Turalyon/Alleria's reveal and subsequent use
>Nozdormu/Murozond's resolution
Trying to figure out which one of these is the biggest waste of potential and I'm having a rough time of it. Turalyon and Alleria are probably out, since they can mostly be summed up under Illidan's bullshit.

Illidan's Fel, wouldn't he hate Void?

Centaurs have too much bad blood with Tauren.

I'm more focused on the nature of Forsaken outside of Sylvanas. I play Horde and my feelings about her have been very...mixed, BfA announcement has made me like her more because of all the rage generated, but that doesn't help how I feel about her character, and how I feel about races beyond her.

WoW has an issue with mono-races and leaders as races, Varian is treated like some glorious amazing leader of humanity because humans got treated like noble white knights. Orcs got treated like total savages because Garrosh was made out to be one. WoW struggles with treating races differently.

Which begs the question, how would your TT group try and switch it up?

I'm really wondering what they might do with the Forsaken now. We basically have the cofounder of the Knights of the Silver Hand running around at the priest order hall as a Forsaken, while also hanging around with Calia Menethil, the last of the nobility of Lordaeron to the best of my knowledge. On top of that Sylvanas is currently pissed off because some of the other Forsaken are starting to think forcing the curse of undeath onto people is a really bad idea.

Is there a chance that Blizzard might actually have a civil war at some point with the Forsaken, where some are much more "pro humanity" or whatever you may want to call it?

>Orcs got treated like total savages because Garrosh was made out to be one.
Bit more than that.

They invaded Azeroth repeatedly with the goal of genociding everyone, really. Their excuse is because of demon blood, ok. Except then Garrosh was insanely powerful and was a complete prick who wanted to bring back the glory days. THEN we had WoD, where it turns out the Orcs were willing to kill everyone even without the demon blood as an excuse.

>willing to kill everyone

You would, too, if you lived on Draenor. Draenor was a hellworld even before the Legion came. Literally everything was trying to kill them all the time, the Ogres were basically the least of their problems.

Sure except instead of trying to tame their world, they decide their first course of action should be to attack Azeroth because reasons. They could have just taken out the parasite plant dude things but nah.

Best pair fight me anons

>because reasons

>be Garrosh
>tell everyone there's a weak planet over there with no Botani or Arakkoa or Ogres and all they need to do to leave this nightmare is use the giant explodey wheels to kill the people living there
>???
>profit

I'm not saying it was good, or the right thing to do at all. I'm not even saying it was good writing. But it was the path of least resistance in their eyes, he just "forgot" to warn them about player characters.

Reminder that there are no women of both Anduin's age group and his socioeconomic standing for him to marry. The line of Wrynn will end with him.

>implying they won't write him a waifu like they did with Thrall

Garrosh told them that we were planning an attack on them first as well.

>Be playing on an RP serverfresh after Legion's announcement
>Be me
>Guy is recruiting for his RP guild, called
>Says they're the actual Illidari from canon, refers to them as Chaotic Neutral freedom fighters who will oppose the Legion at any costs
>Every time he shows up in Chat, I tell him the Illidari as of BC are straight up Evil and engage in genocide, slavery, and wreaking havoc on Outland's already tortured ecosystem for personal gain
>The Black Temple is basically Illidan's NEET basement, complete with waifus. He only fights the Legion in Outland because they won't let him fap in peace
>Cut to Legion, where the Illidari are...Chaotic Neutral freedom fighters who will oppose the Legion at any costs
>Illidan is a High IQ anti-hero who opposes the Light
>The Light, which is now an actual faction lead by an autistic Vorlon who brainwashed based Turalyon into an immortal stormtrooper
>Tries doing the same thing to Illidan, who then Nuthin' Personnel's it to death

I don't know what to believe anymore.

>Is there a chance that Blizzard might actually have a civil war at some point with the Forsaken

I really don't want this. Not because I think it's dumb, but because as a Horde player I'm sick of Blizzard turning our faction into raid encounters. I don't want Siege of Undercity.

What's the age gap between him and Calia? If he's trying to take back Undercity, it's about as useful a political marriage can get.

Or this.

>I don't want Siege of Undercity.
It could always just be a quest event similar to Wrathgate rather than SoO 2.0. I'm actually assuming that's what's going to happen with the UC/Teldrassil stuff to kick off the expansion.

It has to be at least a ten year gap. Calia was Arthas' little sister. I forget if she was around Second War or shortly after. While Anduin was born post Warcraft 3

Yep, nothing like shitting on Velen and wasting all the hype of Turalyon's return on Illidan, having the latter go from super pally who sent the old Horde running after he went pure rage super mode to a massive cuck who lets a naaru lock up his wife and jobs to Illidan who proceeds to catch his sword like we're in an anime.

She and Arthas were in their 30's in WCIII, and she's the elder sibling, so she's gotta be in menopause by now.

It seems ever since Wrath, Blizzard decided Paladins must be Space Marines. All glowing armor, flaming swords, and bombastic speeches.

>I'm sick of Blizzard turning our faction into raid encounters.
Alliance got Onyxia so this is payback...I guess ?

Not really. Onyxia was an evil third party disguised as a human noble. That's quite different from entire expansions focusing on turning your major lore characters into raid bosses.

Why is he gripping her dress?

>Turalyon has a flaming sword and an elf waifu
>Rowboat Girlyman has a flaming sword and now also an elf waifu

Grabbed some dinner and missed this.

Think you gotta realize two main things.

Anything before WC3 is sorta half-bullshit. WC1 had literal angels and shit that never appear in WoW, a lot of WC2 got retconned in and out without any nuance. '

WoD retconned a lot of stuff and the devs even were forced to admit by sorta autistic fans that WoD was some alternate reality that didn't reflect MU history.

Garrosh is an entire fucking can of worms that gets way too heavily into Alliance vs Horde for the purposes of this thread because I want to talk about something better in terms of Veeky Forums. Because if we get into Garrosh/Horde lore, I can't be as cool about that shit, ain't gonna lie.

Change stuff from WC3 onwards, what would you do? Remember that the Alliance and Horde are barely rebuilding/might not even continue and people are sorta moving past old grievances.

Not him, but I would definitely keep a level of antagonism between Alliance and Horde. Some conflict between the two factions is good and interesting. They shouldn't be sacking each other's cities though.

I would also put more emphasis on Tauren ferocity. The game does frequently show how they're just as fucking brutal as the Orcs and Trolls, but only to Horde players. Alliance players are only ever exposed to them through the guys hanging out in Cenarian bases, which lead to this meme where Tauren are just elves but with horns.

Wew, totally forgot to make this today. good shit

Miss those boobs.

>Anything before WC3 is sorta half-bullshit. WC1 had literal angels and shit that never appear in WoW, a lot of WC2 got retconned in and out without any nuance. '
Sure, but the whole demon blood thing is still a major part of their story. Individual orcs may have been retconned to be more honorable etc, but you can't just hand wave it off especially when people keep trying to whine about the internment camps, ingame at that. Remove Durnholde and Thrall just falls apart as a character.

The reason I mentioned Garrosh was because he was NOT a lone wolf. The orcs fucking loved him.

>Change stuff from WC3 onwards, what would you do?
Bring more focus onto their violent nature, and how to overcome it. If anything this could have been a great way to introduce the Pandaren to the greater horde, to teach the Orcs to chill out. The bloodlust is not going away, but they should learn to actually control it eventually.

I think it's okay. I wouldn't say it's an absolute rule that must be obeyed, but it makes sense to try and reign in everything instead of letting necromancers and liches go wild.

stormwind is like little babby

...

Post WC3? I think In BC I'd introduce a third faction and keep Illidan a wellish intentioned fuck up. Make Illidari a third faction, with Blood Elves, Draenie (the broken, not the pure ones), Naga and some other forth race? Keep Shamans and Paladins faction specific, and give the Illidari Demon Hunters.

Lore wise I like the idea of thee big natural forces like void lords, evil old gods, elementals and stuff, not to mention how cool I think the Titans are fucking around making humans. I'd keep the light as an objectively good ting though, not this Vorlons crap and not make Illidran a fedora lord.

They're great together user. They could have brought peace and prosperity to Kalimdor

>OTP edition
Oh yeah?

>I wouldn't say it's an absolute rule that must be obeyed, but it makes sense to try and reign in everything instead of letting necromancers and liches go wild.

The problem with this is it implies Arthas wasn't using his forces to actually attack anyone. Terenes's ghost outright says the Scourge is more dangerous without him. It's like, nigga he already tried invading the world.

I understand the gist of it: the Scourge are too numerous to wipe out all at once, so we gotta do something to keep them in check until we reach that point. But it was presented as if Arthas was holding back or something.

>Make Illidari a third faction, with Blood Elves,
And there goes a chunk of the Horde player base

>I would also put more emphasis on Tauren ferocity.
The BfA trailer made me view them more in line with the large Total War: Warhammer monster units with dank charge & HP bonuses.

Hordefag here. BElf players are basically just closet Bluecucks. They wouldn't be missed.

Except Lor'themar. He can stay.

>It's like, nigga he already tried invading the world.
The MMO makes it seem like he didn't do anything at all, really--there was just one forgotten event ever.

Blood Knights were cool though.

It's a shame, I like blood elves, but I hate blood elf players.

Also not him, but I'm making this up as I go:

>In midst of rebuilding, Alliance hamstrung by political chaos and Horde hamstrung by everything on Kalimdor trying to kill them
>Night Elves and Forsaken independent
>Vanilla consists of Horde trying to ensure its basic survival and Alliance civil war exacerbated by crisis in Stormwind
>Onyxia isn't as much of a problem as the warlords claiming whatever of Lordaeron/northern Gilneas/Stromgarde/Dalaran/Alterac they can
>Scarlet Crusade fighting Scourge, Argent Dawn too, Stormwind forces more concentrated on backing the most "reasonable"
>Might of Kalimdor still exists, but NElves only help due to unfinished business with Qiraji, and Farakki help due to Troll/Aqir war memory - Kor'kron created from veterans of Ahn'Qiraj as normal
>Naxxramas is Alliance-only, Kel'thuzad gets away but Naxx is completely wrecked, rebuilding of Plaguelands can actually begin
>7th Legion formed from veterans of Naxxramas campaign

>BC sees Sylvanas/Vereesa reunion, Sons of Lothar return, etc.
>lucky break for Alliance, now Stromgarde has a legitimate ruler
>playable Illidari faction
>reports come in from scouts that something is amiss in Gilneas
>Kul Tiras, Stormwind, Khaz Modan all griping over how to run Alliance and reclaim lost lands, Paladins healing outskirts of Lordaeron while Forsaken hold Tirisfal

>meanwhile on Kalimdor, Zalazane actually dead this time
>Theramore still actually neutral
>Zalazane actually dead this time
>Thrall better judge of character this time, Cairne also brought to Outland with him to help train Garrosh
>Baine left in charge of Tauren while dad is away to gain experience
>Vol'jin in talks with Farakki, they consider joining the Horde

>back in Eastern Kingdoms, Zul'jin is angry, angry about Elves
>Alliance siege Zul'aman, 7th Legion and Sons of Lothar spearhead effort
>back on Kalimdor, Horde notices a big boom on an island off the coast, investigates
>continued next post

They were, until they just became standard Lawful Good Paladins.

Capturing a space angel and forcing it to give you super powers is metal as fuck. Blizz gave us Elves with some grit, then took that grit away over the course of a single expansion.

All land is troll land.

Zandalari are the oldest troll tribe.

The Zandalari are joining the Horde.

Therefore, all land is Horde land.

Orcs are also the only titanforged other than the earthen to not be corrupted by the Old Gods

>Theramore still actually neutral
based Kalimdor humans

>Horde's big raid is dealing with the Naga in Azshara, permanently reduce Naga influence on Kalimdor
>Horde look at island, find 30 or 40 crash survivors, decide to wait for some to recover before asking them what happened
>NElves kidnap them while Horde is sleeping
>"WHY DID YOU POISON THE ISLAND"
>"demons shot us down"
>"WHERE ARE THE DEMONS"
>"in space"
>"THAT'S DUMB"
>"that's what we said"

>now it's time for Wrath!
>Scourge resurgent, council formed to take on Arthas - Blood Elves, Forsaken, Argent Dawn, and Scarlet Crusade
>nobody wants the Scarlets there but nobody can afford to turn them away
>council puts out call for help
>Alliance sends Sons of Lothar detachment, Horde sends Kor'kron detachment, Silvermoon technically tied to Illidari
>Putress and Varimathras do the thing
>it's the Scarlets who raid Undercity, supported by demon hunters wanting to kill a dreadlord
>Alliance races in to rein the Scarlets in

>meanwhile in Northrend, Thrall tells Taunka how not to ruin elements
>Alexstrasza hears some of her kids are frostwyrms now
>angry_dragon_noises.mp4
>Icecrown brought down by combined siege
>Arthas dead, no ALWAYS BE A LICH KING
>Scarlets left behind on Northrend to act as cleanup crew, resent janitorial duties
>Taunka also conscripted into it
>not much changes about Ulduar
>Azjol'nerub raid actually happens, living Nerubians helping with the cleanup

>SUDDENLY, DEATHWING
>Stormwind on fire
>with Bolvar gone and Onyxia dead for about two years now, Anduin's left to rule alone and be sad
>they still haven't found his dad
>Alliance forces find giant crack in Greymane Wall, investigate
>Gilneas wrecked
>Sons of Lothar sent to pacify Gilneas, Danath meets Genn
>Genn gets the memo
>immediately regrets leaving everyone to die, he'd never have done it if he knew things would get that bad
>too late now
>continued next post

Responding to you now, thought I did earlier but it sorta went outside of it.

Garrosh...was just so all over the place and even in the orc opening zone he was made out to be controversial. He was unpopular playerbase wise and through Cata and MoP and was made out to be unpopular. Remember that the internment camps were really unpopular before Cata(Garrosh's highlight) because all the orcs at the time knew was coming out of the haze of demon blood and finding themselves in chains.

>how would you do it

I disagree with you on the orcs being the focus of bloodlust MoP would have been a better chance to reconcile both sides of faction wars instead of what we got, which was sorta making one side look half-bad and the other side totally good.

Anyway, sorry, didn't want to get too heated.

Not gonna lie, Thrall and Jaina would have been so much better had they just dated. It's the cutest pair and cutest WoW.

>meanwhile on Kalimdor, Mag'har and Sand Trolls fully integrated into Horde
>Thrall forms interim council to rule while he's off doing shaman things
>Garrosh handles war, Vol'jin handles politics, Cairne handles diplomacy, Varok reports on Orc problems, Rokhan reports on Troll problems, Baine reports on Tauren problems
>overall things actually looking pretty good for Horde
>Goblins still join, but storyline on Lost Isles is longer - no salvaged tech or anything either
>Horde decides to teach Goblins how to live without high tech
>Gallywix faction can't deal with it, player is on board with faction that adapts
>player wins out, council leaves cartel in hands of Sassy Hardwrench due to trusting her most
>Quilboar and Centaurs finally pacified

>back on EK, Blackrock Spire falls after months of siege
>Genn rejoins Alliance seeking redemption
>NElves still helped Worgen calm down, but immediately vanished when job was done
>no Forsaken invasion because Sylvanas busy and not Horde
>Alliance most stable it's been in years, maybe we should kill this dragon?
>Alliance goes to kill Deathwing, only to find Dragonflights, Horde, and Thorim en route to do same
>Deathwing is dead
>what now?

>Thrall goes back to being Warchief, but keeps council on as informal advisors
>Garrosh made head of Kor'kron, given Gorehowl
>things are pretty good on Kalimdor, NElves actually trading in wisp lumber now
>'hey let's send an expedition south from Zul'Farrak, see if anything is there'

>meanwhile on EK, Alliance naval expedition to find crashed airship from fight with Deathwing

>Illidari still out hunting demons and such

>meanwhile on turtle, three young monks find a crashed ship with no sails
>fight Saurok w/help from fellow initiates, save turtle, use monk healing to fix turtle
>see a lion symbol printed on a piece of debris
>take it back to temple
>show it to someone who washed up a few years ago
>seems_familiar.jpg

>continued next post

>jaina
>being waifu material
>ever
Nah man. Why do you think Arthas nope'd out of Lordaeron so hard? He was trying to get away from the pile of batshit crazy that is Jaina.

>>back on EK, Blackrock Spire falls after months of siege
noo, muh 2nd horde

>because all the orcs at the time knew was coming out of the haze of demon blood and finding themselves in chains.
Sure. At the time it may have been disorienting.

But they're all well aware of why their skin is green now and what they did during that period. They should at least be a little ashamed of the fact they have the audacity to try to pick a fight with the same races they tried to genocide not even a generation ago.

>which was sorta making one side look half-bad and the other side totally good.
It's a fair assessment though. The biggest sin of the Alliance that I can think of has to do with Camp Turajo, when they gave the populace time to escape anyways. Some point to the Interment Camps but I have never seen a viable alternative. What, you let the people trying to kill you an hour ago go roam free? If something like this happened in the real world and a race of demon semen powered orcs tried to murder-rape us, people would be going the Greymane route and just wipe them out.

The Horde meanwhile is made up of people who keep trying to genocide folks, literal cannibals up until Thrall told them to cut it out, and all the bullshit the Forsaken entails.

I like this take on the Forsaken. Seems kind of Broken Lords-y.

>tfw there will never be a secretive cabal of Forsaken Paladins called the Order of the Rusted Hand.

We have Uthers tutor running around as a zombie while Undercity is starting to realize shes nuts.

You never know.

>naval scouts on both sides report GIANT TURTLE SIGHTING
>they swear they saw a city on its shell
>"find it and follow it again"
>okay
>Alliance sends old Kul Tiran frigate to chase turtle, Horde gets Goblins and Trolls to build a boat for it
>follow turtle
>crash on misty rock
>oops, badfeels make demons happen
>also pandas?

>DID_SOMEONE_SAY_DEMONS.Illidari
>actually not demons, but they don't care that much it's still Bad Stuff to kill

>Anduin interested when scout report finally gets back, surviving scouts apparently saw dad
>Vol'jin interested in reports of Zandalari activity
>ROAD TRIP

>find Varian hanging out at Cho's place
>he's found peace kind of but really wants his memory back
>get word back to Anduin
>"BRING ME MY FATHER AT ONCE"
>okay.gif

>find Zul doing shady things
>trying to use Sha and resurrect Thunder King, in that order
>shut down first thing, go for second
>everyone get back together for Mogu Season
>okay he's dead what now
>Greater Sha
>okay they're dead what now
>"wanna help rebuild the Black Dragonflight"
>okay, nothing could go wrong

>MEANWHILE AT THE BONES OF OG GUL'DAN
>oh hi Kel'thuzad, why are you interested in this guy?
>continued next post

Reminder the Alliance barber is Sweeney Todd.

I was under the impression Stormwind was stronger, if only because of the godlike cavalry it had.

I'd probably just change a bunch of dumb shit that I think would be cool. Like
>Jaina and co. settling further north instead of in Dustwallow
>mostly because mage-sheriffs and gun paladins are a pretty swell idea, and I feel like the dusty expanse of the Barrens provides an opportunity for just that
or
>The Exodar crashes in Un'Goro
>unleashing Bloodmyst-like conditions on that place seems like a great potential for horrible things to happen, and I love it

>She and Arthas were in their 30's in WCIII
IIRC Arthas was early 20's in Warcraft 3, as stated in the lore handbook that came with the Battle Chest.

Still making this up as I go, things get even dumber from here.

>GUL'DAN OPEN A PORTAL SO I CAN KILL AND REANIMATE DEMONS
>okay.crossedfingers
>AND FLUNG HIM INTO THE NETHER, WHERE MY EVIL IS LAW
>curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal
>Gul'dan: [laughs in Eredun]
>KT has phylactery somewhere safe, but very annoyed now and wondering what happens if KJ finds him

>Gul'dan headed back for Tomb
>Alliance and Horde take a breather

>Kalimdor
>Zul'Farrak fully rebuilt
>Goblins still not good at nature, but getting there
>Zul's Zandalari in trouble after Lei Shen war, considering joining Horde out of desperation
>Vol'jin: [laughs in Zandali]
>Cairne finally gets rid of Magatha, lets Baine get the killing blow

>meanwhile at Stormwind, Varian slowly remembering, Anduin getting better at telling people what to do
>father-son bonding all around, really
>Vanessa picks now for REVENGE, and fails, and dies
>oops

>Wrathion new Black aspect, everything is definitely fine and nothing bad is going to happen
>N'zoth: [laughs in Sath'yar]

>skirmishes on the high seas as Alliance and Horde compete for trade routes
>privateers everywhere
>Azshara: [laughs in Nazja]

>about a year of this later
>ground shakes and Khadgar feels Bad Stuff about to happen
>Gul'dan: [LAUGHS EVEN HARDER IN EREDUN]
>Kil'jaeden: [laughs in Eredun]
>Archimonde: [laughs in Eredun]
>Mannoroth: [laughs in Eredun]
>Xavius: [laughs in Nightmare]

>everyone: [screaming in Common/Orcish]
>Legion goes mostly as normal, but Tomb and Argus include Archimonde, no Xe'ra-Illidan tomfoolery, no wasted return for Turalyon and Alleria
>they still get found, though - both in suspended animation
>Khadgar takes them to Dalaran to wake them up

>Legion leadership broken, Archy and KJ dead, but Sargeras still out there and no Titans to stop him
>well now what
>N'Zoth: [LAUGHS EVEN HARDER IN SATH'YAR]
>oh right, Old God
>time to go kill that

So I've been thinking about Stormwind's outposts in Northrend. They have an awful lot of farmland and generally seem a lot more civilian than you'd think a military operation would need to be. I think they've got long-term colonial aspirations up there.

I could see a plotline where Anduin ends up hitched to the daughter of a fairly influential member of the House of Nobles in order to ensure their continued support in the face of the society-shaking crises that Stormwind keeps facing. Maybe throw in some shit about that family pressuring Anduin to retake some land they have distant and dubious claims to, I dunno.

Just throw in some feudal spice, is what I'm saying.

>pick a fight

Remember, the Horde didn't declare the war in Cata, the Alliance declared it because the person they appointed as High King attacked someone trying to help him screaming about how he wanted to do nothing but kill every orc as well as all the other Horde races.

Even if we go back to WC3, the orcs just want to leave the EK and Daelin is the one who comes to them and is willing to conquer other humans to carry out petty revenge.

Orcs don't become savages and humans don't become white knights until we get Kosak in Cata.
>Camp Taraujo
>gave the populace time to escape

But...they didn't...

That was the whole thing with Camp Taraujo, the Alliance went in and slaughtered an entire village of civilians without any justification or reason and even people within the zone comment that the Alliance did this without cause, it even comes up in the aftermath of MoP.

>genocide folks
Nothing that the Horde did indicated genocide even up until MoP in which the Alliance had already declared a war of genocide and used slaves to fund it own war effort.

While Westfall was a giant CSI meme in Cata, had it not been that, it could have been a great zone about how the Alliance's rigid autism on "ONLY WE ARE THE CIVILIZED RACES" impoverished its own people because they kept fighting anyone who's land they wanted/they didn't like.

>in order to ensure their continued support in the face of the society-shaking crises that Stormwind keeps facing
If Stormwind is actually facing such a crisis, the game doesn't show it well. Every expansion, Stormwind's superpower status becomes more and more noticeable. They have an entire fleet of Avengers-style flying aircraft carriers now.

So does anyone here actually play tabletop games based on Warcraft? Or do you just get off on discussing the lore of a series that stopped being relevant a few years ago? I don't understand the point of this general otherwise.

yea we get off on it hardcore--it was my childhood afterall

Kinda thought you were going towards a "KT has funtime Scourge adventures in alt-Draenor, also Gul'Dan" expansion for the WoD equivalent.

Actually gonna build off of this.

The Alliance in their time on WoW and in general has...

-Attacked civilians
-Violated neutrality to create bases
-Violated neutrality to kill civilians
-Killed civilians outright and then loot the remains
-Declare war with intent to genocide
-Violently suppress internal movements with the intent to install puppet governments
-Impoverished its own people to pay for war efforts.
-Antagonized allies
-Refused to aid in stopping an Old God with the hopes that it will kill people they don't like.
-Attacked allies outright with the intent on killing those they don't like
-Refused to hold themselves accountable and demand that others match their standards

Basically, you can't ever really act like WoW's cancer stems from the treatment of the Horde, remember that the Alliance got someone who wanted a return to WC2 in charge of story telling and got away with everything listed above.

Had a few drinks so I don't care if this thread goes down the shitter right now, people always bitch about "those Horde dindus" without playing through Wrath/Cata and remembering how much shit the Alliance pulled and got excused for without a Siege of Stormwind.

Now hold the fuck up because that is blatant bullshit you're spewing.

The whole thing with Camp Taraujo is that it was (incorrectly) believed to be a military post and training facility, that it was a dicey decision among Alliance leadership to attack it but that they couldn't ignore it due to its strategic position and use in Horde supply lines, that the general in question did leave an opening for civilians to leave for just that ethical dilemma, that due to lack of knowledge of the local area that opening lead directly into a quillboar nest, that deserters from Stormwind (their policy of conscripting from the Stockades appears to have severely backfired) began looting, that the general ordered those deserters hunted down, and that a Tauren who lost people in the attack got understandably platinum mad about the whole thing and had the sole dwarven settlement on the continent blown up for it. You double nigger it's a fucking complex situation with poor intel and planning creating a major fuckup for the Alliance, but it is by no means as you've made it out to be.

ALSO:
>pretty much everything the Orcs and Forsaken, and mainly the Forsaken, did in Cata could be considered fairly genocidal
>Cataclysm showed that the Alliance was nigh-universally on the defensive in the war, with the sole exception being in the Southern Barrens in an attempt to relieve their allies in Ashenvale who were, gasp, fighting to defend themselves against a nation that quite literally "impoverished its own people because they kept fighting anyone who's land the wanted/didn't like"

Might want to clarify on those, if only so people can remember which events you're talking about.

I know one of them involved Ulduar.

>attacked civilians
>violated neutrality to create bases
>violated neutrality to kill civilians
>killed civilians outright and then loot the remains
>declare war with intent to genocide
snarling_gilneans.mp3

>You double nigger it's a fucking complex situation with poor intel and planning creating a major fuckup for the Alliance, but it is by no means as you've made it out to be.

I mean, why would it be made clear cut? If the Alliance do something morally questionable, their massive knight in shining armor complex immediately has to be soothed to the extent of even the Horde leader whose camp it was shilling and defending them, lmao.