Weekend Warcraft Lore General

>4) is malf finally gonna do something in WoW, is he gonna go treebeard on their asses?
By Isengard'd I meant mined out and militarized into a rapidly growing resurgence of the Black Empire. You'll have some giant magic sandstorm happen and you'll have massive citadels come up and horns of doom going off as suddenly the desert gives way to a vision of the past reborn.

There's a reason the Nelfs get nuked.

>inb4 larp

I can see this happening, as Blizz has been hinting at old god stuff for a while, I am disappointed that lel greatest druid of all time is reportedly down there and doing nothing about it again

No. I just said that Karl Franz' Voice Acting is just as iconic as Arthas'

Also, who is the closest character in current WoW to the PRINCE and EMPEROR

>5. Sylvanas dies again.
and stay dead?

She'll get better in the next expansion.

There's also a ton of undead Scarlet paladins

Also Forsaken Priests can canonically use the Light, it just hurts like a motherfucker each and every single time.

So it's going to look like that one picture with all the slaves being forced to build temples at the base of Cthun by his tentacle and crab clawed minions.

Manduin

priests and paladins use the light differently, canonically Priests "wield" the light Paladin's embrace it becoming vessels of the light

One of the arguments against undead paladins after Zeliak and the like gets brought up is that they would be in extreme pain whenever they fought, but honestly, we have a class now(Demon Hunter) that literally is fueled by their own pain and suffering.

Not to mention that while saying the player as said iron willed undead would be a massive snowflake used to be valid, it kind of loses its bite when in current WoW the player is treated like the most speshul hero ever and wielding the goddamn Ashbringer in the first place.

The Light can get awfully rapey.

youtube.com/watch?v=9HOtDMWu0SU

*Naaru can get aweful rapy*
the light is just a power source the Naaru are creatures of the light, just as old gods are creatures of the shadow

That too. If we have have a holy dread-fucking-lord of all things, undead using the light seems a lot less farfetched.

>that they would be in extreme pain whenever they fought

That actually does, legitimately, happen. That is canon. All Undead feel pain when they wield/are healed by the Light. It's explicitly mentioned that this is the reason why player Undead Priests are so heroic. Also that you should respect your undead tanks more

I honestly wouldn't mind this if only because I'm sick of Blizzard killing off my faction leaders. The Horde getting someone who actually improves and develops into a character instead of either 1)fucking off to do nothing, 2) dying, or 3) becoming a raid boss is long overdo.

nah Kill sylvanas mid expansion, she deserves to die after everything she's done, Give the horde Saurfang as the new warchief and flesh out the other racial leaders, characters like Bane, and Galywix could be really interesting if they ever got screentime

Theres a theory that the most hard soyboys of sylvanas are trying to accept it lately, and that it makes sense in the great source of things

>when sylvanas threw herself at the top of ICC, the Saronite/Old God's Blood cut her soul's connection to the light and the shadowlands itself, forcing her soul to be dragged into the void itself as arthas, and making her lose sanity since she's trying to evade that fate, since the Shadowmourne itself was a weapon primarily made by Saronite, we may had doomed Arthas to the same void afterlife where he's being tortured by the void lords themselves

>she deserves to die after everything she's done
>summarily killing off interesting characters because they do shady things

This is the other reason I want her to stick around. Yeah, Sylvanas has done quite a few shitty things but I'd rather see her get better and develop than just be Garrosh 2.0. Just cuz you guys get your KING VARIAN LION OF AZEROTH and King Weaboo Jr., doesn't mean you can dictate to us who our faction leaders should be.

Anduin from BfA trailer looks like a child of Arthas and Karl Franz

>Galywix
>interesting
I can tell you never played the goblin intro zone

>The based EBDP and the scourge keeps on the good fight
>/ourguy/ KT is back
Please let us have supreme commissioner Kel'thuzad.

Fucking this. Sylvanas is the second most effective military leader the Horde has ever had. Of course the Alliance wants her to die.

Is Legion worth getting into for the Draenei story? Draenei have been my favorite race since BC, so I really just want to finish it up, and see where it ends.

Undead are pretty much immune to old god corruption m8, they're already in permanent agony so they don't give a fuck about the whispers.

You meet the "Lighforged Draenei" who are basically just brainwashed stormtroopers fighting a Forever War for an autistic Naaru.

actually, no

Sylvanas gave so much fuck about whispers she tried to enslave a titanic watcher

>doesn't have this chin

inb4 he and Scourge elements join the fight with the inseparable Horde & Alliance against whatever god menace is next

>implying I play alliance
fuck the nu horde, give me back my orc horde.
> 40% elf faction bowing to the new lich king

>tfw KT is the nu-Khadgar in the fight against the Black Empire

She cares about what happens after she dies you low IQ monkey. Not the whispers, the whispers don't tell her
>Oi cunt go get dis
she dies, goes to superhell and decides NOT going to superhell void is like, really cool.

she jumped off ICC and got impaled on a spike of old god blood, then the Valkir just offer themselves to her service
>clearly not insane or under the influence of oldgods

Go read chronicles you fucking mongoloid. It's stated there.

There's no mention of Sylvanas in the Chronicles.

> second most effective military leader
when did this meme start? She has been incompetent on the battlefield since WC3
-looses to Arthas while alive
-gets free turns to the human resistance to kick the dreadlords out of lordaeron
- abandons said allies killing them and raising them from the dead (somehow they just accept this and dont fight her again)
-needs the orcs and the argent crusade to start fighting Arthas in northrend and still looses her capital due to her own incompetence as a leader
-fails the invasion of Gilneas even though she had more troops, better equipement, and they had just lost most of their people to the worgen curse
-fails to hold the line at the broken shore, resulting in the death of much of the horde strikeforce + the warchief
- gets BTFO all over stormheim, from loosing her fleet, to loosing her shiny lamp

How is she the second most effective military leader again?

see
sylvanas isn't mentioned in the Chronicles, as far as I remember they havent even got to WC2 yet in that series (that they are retconning faster than you can say "warcraft lore has made no sense after wc3")

Boobs?

>How is she the second most effective military leader again?
Process of elimination. Everyone else is either a rookie, fucked off to be by themselves, or dead.

Also holding the Broken Shore against her is pretty fucking dumb.

shit you got me

voljin got killed by a trash mob, atleast Tirion got fell BBQed

And Varian got his epic heroic sacrifice.

Broken Shore is living proof "Horde Bias" is just a meme

>Loses to Arthas while still alive
So did literally everyone else
>Turns to the human resistance to kick the dreadlords out of Lordaeron
A battle she won, and then was able to remove Garithos from the gene pool, a boon to pretty much everyone
>Needs the orcs and Argent Crusade to start fighting Arthas in Northrend
Except the Forsaken's campaign in Northrend was practically a solo campaign and actually had less issues than the rest of the Horde.
>Fails the invasion of Gilneas
Because she was following Garrosh's battle plan and he's braindead retarded
>Fails to hold the line at the Broken Shore
Vol'jin was in command, that's on him
>Gets BTFO all over Stormheim
This is basically your only legitimate point. Still, Sylvanas is the only one aside from Garrosh who's willing to make military decisions at all.

>Garrosh could lived through Warlords until the Legion came
> He sacrafices himself trying to down Archimonde in similar fashion to daddy Hellscream
>instead neutered Thrall puts him down like a punk

What do you all think about the idea of the timeways being corrupted?

Unpopular opinions?

I thought WoD was average. Shit ending at Hellfire Citadel though. DRAENOR WUZ FREEEEE

MoP was great.

I don't want Arthas to come back. He's had his time and they'd redeem him if he came back to slap Sylvanas.

Sylvanas is a great villain, much better than Garrosh because she's always been a fucking bitch compared with Garrosh whos personality changed with every patch. It only sucks that her villainy comes at the expense of a playable faction.

If I turn off my brain I can enjoy the story except I feel like an idiot for doing that in the first place.

>Loses to Arthas while still alive
>So did literally everyone else

Yeah I got no idea what the fuck he's going on about with this. If "dying to Arthas" is all it takes to count as a shit military leader then the Bluecucks' beloved Lordaeron is the most incompetent faction in the entire game.

>If I turn off my brain I can enjoy the story except I feel like an idiot for doing that in the first place.

Don't. Warcraft lore is fucking retarded. It's almost as bad as the Star Wars expanded universe.

Enjoy the stuff you like, ignore what you don't. The only people who'll bitch at you for not caring about Void Lords or the Army of the Light or Illidan for the Fedoratrayer are the hardcore RP spergs.

WoD started out good. I was massively disappointed with the ending as well.

MoP was top-tier and the best expansion since Wrath.

>Garrosh because she's always been a fucking bitch compared with Garrosh whos personality changed with every patch. It only sucks that her villainy comes at the expense of a playable faction.
Book Garrosh is best Garrosh.

ironically this theory makes sense, the saronite may really had cut arthas and her soul's connection to the light after they were killed

>Was dead for a few months
>Raised into undeath
>Flesh falling off at the bone
>Somehow, all my nerves still work perfectly fine

Somebody end this suffering.

horde bias hasnt been a thing since Metzen stopped with his green jesus storyline.
>So did literally everyone else
she had a completely defensible position, some of the best mages in the world, and one of the best tactical positions ever, think vietcong levels of ambush strats
>A battle she won, and then was able to remove Garithos from the gene pool, a boon to pretty much everyone
betraying your allies is usually not the best tactical decision although I'll agree with killing Garithos
>Except the Forsaken's campaign in Northrend was practically a solo campaign and actually had less issues than the rest of the Horde.
her only motivation prior to ICC was killing Arthas, she sat on her ass for years, doing nothing to push the scourge out of lordaeron, hell she did the Lich kings job for him when it came to poisoning the lands and spreading/advancing the plague
>Because she was following Garrosh's battle plan and he's braindead retarded
Garrosh ordered her to invade, she created the battle plan, furthermore Gilnaes had fallen to the worgen curse, thousands of their people were dead or wounded, even with a brain dead plan she should have won
>Vol'jin was in command, that's on him
at no point do we see Voljin "in command" hell Sulvanas is the one directing the horde zeppelin and leading their strikeforces
>This is basically your only legitimate point. Still, Sylvanas is the only one aside from Garrosh who's willing to make military decisions at all.

this is why I want new horde characters to be fleshed out. She's the only known horde character because all the other ones that Blizz has ever written have either died or have gone awol like Thrall. Give Bane, a new Troll leader, Saurfang or litterally anyone else the spotlight

Best lich coming through

Actually, it's mentioned that Undead feel virtually nothing--until someone heals them with the Light. Then they feel everything again. The pain of their own damaged bodies, the maggots wriggling in their bodies, fucking everything. Tip your undead tanks, kids.

you misspelled Kel'Thuzad

Hopefully blizzard continues to pretend warlords of draenor never happened. But i cant shake how much it ruined the lore by creating massive plotholes, retconned massive amounts of background and ruined established characters. Do you think the story is redeemable or has it fallen too far?

Well whenever they try to flesh out Horde leaders the Alliance bitches and they cut those questlines.

I would rather they give Sylvanas more character and make her more complex than just continue the obnoxious trend of killing our faction leaders. Giving new characters the spotlight is always good but not if it comes at the expense of every single one of our long-established fan favorites.

I was never a huge Sylvanas fan but I want her to stick around, partly because of the above reason and partly because of just how bootybothered she makes Alliance players. They just can't wrap their heads around players who don't want their faction's personality built around some white knight power fantasy.

Saurfang most likely

time travel and/or alternate dimensions just fucking ruins every story ive ever seen it in. That being said I still hold that WC has made no sense since WC3

Broxigar,Varok or Dranosh?

WoD was its own thing user. Anything that affected WoD Draenor doesn't affect Prime Azeroth/Draenor. Outside of WoD Guldan coming to Prime Azeroth.

Greymane broke her only way to come back. If she dies again, she's dead for good and going to the Super Hell beyond the Shadowlands.

Varok, you dumbass.
Dranosh wasn't as much of a badass as his dad while Broxigar is a meme character in a book that should never have been written

Gul'dan was a fun villain. Why don't we have those any more ?

New Dadghar, complete with dozens of bad dad puns for the quests he'll issue you.

>she had a completely defensible position, some of the best mages in the world, one of the best tactical positions ever
So did the guys at Dalaran but they got btfo anyway.
>Betraying your allies is usually not the best tactical decision
This is true, but in this specific case we can agree that it was probably for the best.
>Her only motivation prior to ICC was killing Arthas
And the Forsaken literally contributed as much if not more than the rest of the Horde combined in Northrend, by themselves.
>Garrosh ordered her to invade, she created the battle plan
Except when Garrosh came in and said "no you can't do it that way do it this way instead." There was also a story about how if she didn't come back from Northrend, then Garrosh would have thrown the Forsaken at Gilneas' wall until they were extinct.
>At no point do we see Vol'jin "in command"
He was the fucking Warchief. If he wasn't commanding his own forces then why the fuck is anyone sad that he died?

I agree that they need to flesh out racial leaders more, but considering the Horde has already gone through three mother fucking Warchiefs I'd like Sylvanas to stick around for a while longer and not die. They've been on a corruption kick for so long I'd like to see Sylvanas actually pick up some of the slack and lead the Horde to some legitimate victories and not turn lol evil.

>Khadgar casually reveals he was a mentor for Khadgar for a while and instilled in him a love of puns and dadjokes

>Broxigar is a meme character in a book that should never have been written

Hoo boy ain't that the truth. How much you wanna bet Knaak typed all of Azshara's scenes one-handed?

>Khadgar was a mentor for Khadgar

DEEPEST LORE

>Khadgar mentored Khadgar

Khadgar impregnates Jaina and the tainted child is taken back in time and raised only to become Medivh.

God beinf Varok must be suffering. Lose the war when you were the Warchief's right hand man, your brother died ten thousand years ago, you get to reunite with your son but he gets turned into a death knight and you have to watch murder hobos kill him and last but certainly not least you get to watch the kid you mentored make all the same mistakes the old Horde made.

Why hasn't he killed himself?

there's plenty of character archetypes between white knight and Lich Queen, with Blizz bringing Voljin back as a spirit I wouldn't be suprised to see a story about how either Sylvanas herself or the old gods used spirits to convince Voljin to give warchief to Sylvanas for any number of evil reasons. Then the horde could dispose of her rather than being bodies between her enemies and her own personal hell.
>He was the fucking Warchief. If he wasn't commanding his own forces then why the fuck is anyone sad that he died?
you dont seem to know how the chain of command works, ( not that blizzard does either but thats another problem) If someone is given command of an army/brigade/squadron whatever THEY have command unless they are relieved of duty. This is seen throughout history as Kings have followed their Generals into battle. Hell durring the civil war as Grant tried to pin down Lee around Richmond, Meade technically had command of the army itself, Grant gave Meade orders and Meade ordered the men

wtf War of the Ancients was my childhood

Because he's punishing himself for being part of the old Horde in the first place.

I remember reading the shit out of the WC3 manual with all the story stuff. When I heard they were making a War of the Ancients book I was excited, little did I know how bad it was going to be

>Why hasn't he killed himself?

He's incapable of death. He's the only faction leader the Alliance literally can't kill.

I'm glad there are people that recognize how shitty Brox was. Everybody used to cum over him for one of the worst scenes in a Warcraft book.

Sylvanas was in charge of the forward strike force and the anti-air, which she did perfectly fine. Thrall, Baine, and Vol'jin managed to fuck up the rearguard, and Vol'jin literally gets ganked by a felguard as he's giving orders to cover the flank. It's Vol'jin's failure.

He doesn't eat pork

It was an awful trilogy that ruined the mythos of the War of the Ancients and turned Rhonin into the character he ended up becoming. Knaack somehow managed to turn it into a "OC DONUT STEEL and his adventures into time and saving the world. Also he taught Illidan magic, how cool is that?!"

Even more reason to kill himself

>Then the horde could dispose of her rather than being bodies between her enemies and her own personal hell
I don't think you understand: many Horde players don't want this to fucking happen. We don't want to "dispose" of yet another major character. We're tired of every aspect of our faction development coming with the death or betrayal of our fan favorites. We want our characters to have long, interesting plot lines, not just get raid-bossed because lolevil. Of course I don't know why I expect the Alliance to understand this. The closest you ever got to this was Varian's heroic sacrifice.

By the way I hope you guys enjoy that massive monument to the Lion of Stormwind you got, because Vol'jin didn't even get a fucking headstone.

I really don't remember any soul-crushingly bad things about the books.
If I reread 'em today I think I'd still love 'em, especially any detail related to night elf civilization and its families, orders, architecture, dominance of the continent, etc.

I guess I'm just not bothered by "Mary Sues" and certain character developments as others are. The most interesting bit of that whole ordeal for me was the dichotomy of a mage drawing power from seemingly nothing vs. a brigade of sorcerers needing to draw purely from the Well.

>imply Kossak and Alliance wouldn't be at full mast at the thought of Saurfang dying like a bitch to Greymane or some shit

Blaming any one person for the Broken Shore is pretty asinine. The entire bi-faction force got routed from basically the beginning.

>Then the Horde could dispose of her
You can dispose of Sylvanas when the Alliance loses four fucking racial leaders at once.

Alliance doesn't have any leaders that were turbocunt female Hitlers for 10 years and then told we were supposed to accept them as out saviors because the developers liked to masturbate to her.

I wish the saurok and mantids would join the playable roster, allied races was such a missed chance