Equal effectiveness at any range until suddenly zero effectiveness.
David Long
I'm just glad I prompted a discussion so I didn't have to keep bumping the thread.
Adrian Bailey
Counterpoint: There's a minimum "time to acquire" for any given CAW depending on its exact qualities, and at a time greater than or equal to it, PD will destroy it. At a distance less than that, PD will only be able acquire and destroy some proportion of CAW, and this is what the (usually) variable amount of attacks represent; how many volleys actually get close enough to potentially damage, if not destroyed by close in PD.
The abstraction in this case is that it's equally effective at 0" to scan, not that it suddenly becomes ineffective at scan+.
Matthew Ortiz
>The abstraction in this case is that it's equally effective at 0" to scan, not that it suddenly becomes ineffective at scan+.
That's *why* it suddenly becomes ineffective.
And the range is the same against all targets
Evan Young
>And the range is the same against all targets Exactly, which is why I said there's a minimum time to acquire. It doesn't matter how much PD a ship has, it's not going to be able to shoot down all CAW without a chance of a failure if they're close enough; more PD just makes it more likely that they'll get it all at that range.
However, at scan+ range, CAW is always shot down by PD, whether it be by the ship it's targeting or by others in the area.
Gabriel Rogers
The autism can only sustain itself for so long, user.
Hunter King
...
Dylan Thompson
Yes, because all ships across all factions have PD systems with identical range, sensors, acquisition times, and effectiveness against different types of weapons. Not an abstraction at all.
Chase Reyes
It doesn't matter what the actual numbers are; that's what the fluff is, and it's represented in the game.
Cooper Phillips
That is how it's represented in the game, but it is not what the fluff is.
Logan Nguyen
The fluff doesn't say otherwise or anything contradictory, so no, you're wrong.
Austin Thomas
Thinking about getting into some sort of wargame. I know this ones dead but is there any way to play this online or getting other dudes into it? It's still cheaper to play this then wh40k?
Anthony Nelson
>I know this ones dead It's not, at least not the community. The company itself is in a state of transitional undeath, but God willing, it'll hopefully get back to normal. At the very least there won't be a drop in quality for at least a half year
>but is there any way to play this online Not as far as I know, unless there's a tabletop simulator module for it.
>or getting other dudes into it? Yeah; get the starter set, build the fleets up, and run some demo games. Figure out what people want to play from that and go from there.
>It's still cheaper to play this then wh40k? You can build a competitive tournament list in either game for around 200 dollars, give or take 50.
Leo Lewis
So then the combat is turn-based in the setting as well as the game
Sebastian Morgan
user, are you purposefully being difficult? What are we even arguing at this point? I've completely lost the direction of the discussion.
Jackson Rivera
It ain't dead yet. The long term future is just looking rather shaky.
Asher Sullivan
How do we fix the Akumalisk?
James Howard
Redo cloak
Kayden Wilson
How do we redo cloak?
Kevin Morris
Here's some ideas that have been proposed
>Spike Reduction Partial Cloak reduces minor/major spikes to +4"/8", and Full Cloak reduces them to +2"/4" Pros: Simple, still heavily mitigates the penalties of spikes while still having some penalty Cons: A tad boring; penalties are almost negligible anyways for Full Cloak
>Charge System Ships with Cloak of some number of charges they can use, with each charge removing a single spike. For example, Partial gets 3 charges, and Full gets 6. Any number of charges can be used per turn Pros: Allows for cloak ships to outright negate going weapons free as they had, more utility Cons: Adds yet another variable to record and track in game; no reason to have Partial or Full rather than Cloak(X)
>Passive Energy Management Ships with cloak remove either a minor spike or a major spike at the end of their activation for partial/full cloak Pros: Keeps cloaked ships as they otherwise are, except they can now be pinged by flash effects and the like Cons: Cloaked ships are almost nearly as powerful as they are now
>Sensor Jamming Ships targeting cloaked ships have their scan values reduced by 33%/66%, rounded down, for partial/fully cloaked ships. Pros: Significantly reduces the effectiveness of CAW ships, as well as Shaltari and PHR. Cons: Doesn't really do much against UCM and Scourge; a fully cloaked ship with a major spike will only lose 4" from its taregtable range against, say, a Moscow.
Christian Gonzalez
>The guy who insists the rules are not an abstraction is confused
Astonishing
Julian Jenkins
Increase cost
Jaxon Roberts
>thinking one particular part of the rules are not significantly abstracted means thinking all the rules are not abstractions top projection there, user
Josiah Barnes
>thinking any of the rules are not abstractions Are you serious?
Bentley Lee
>because they're rules they HAVE to be completely abstracted with no basis in the setting >gameplay rules to do with distances are equally abstracted as gameplay rules to do with the structure of the game itself Please, I beg you, actually POST something besides single line smug bullshit. You obviously have some position on this, but you haven't said anything.
Landon Gonzalez
>strawman shit There's a big space between "how it would really work" and "no basis in the setting"
Gabriel Brown
>I don't know what a strawman is >t. user Alright then, point me to some fluff on how it would really work in the setting, because everything I've said is supported in the fluff, with explanatory numbers and relations drawn from the game. Even if it's not perfectly 1-to-1 with the setting, whatever it may be in the setting, it's reasonable to assume it's close.
Lincoln Scott
No one said it has no basis in the setting, so it was a strawman argument
Matthew Gonzalez
Then what's the fucking point of saying "It's just an abstraction!!!!" if you're going to reverse yourself two posts later. Either it's an abstraction and isn't useful for talking about stuff in the setting, or it's not an abstraction (or not abstracted all that much) and is useful for talking about the setting.
Joseph Gray
Post your armies. I'd start, but I have no camera.
Josiah Davis
RESISTANCE IN SPACE WHEN?!
Juan Nelson
Reminder that max-launch PHR is pretty much too stronk
>Bells are pretty much Berlins on their own, so good firepower >Priam have decent firepower and can deal with frigates, leaving bombers for bigger targets >Ikarus have acceptable firepower for their cost >Andromeda are cheap and easily hidden
>a full wing of 15 PHR bombers will likely outright delete ANYTHING on the field, with the exception of a PHR battleship or shielded Shaltari battleship, but they will be crippled. >Other battleships will likely be destroyed from crippling damage
>literally only need 2-3 bombers to destroy any frigate on the field; can destroy up to 7 per turn this way >8 bombers will destroy or cripple and heavily damage anything from a light cruiser to a battlecruiser
>even with 15 enemy PHR fighters stacked up on a battleship, a full 15 bombers will still do, on average, 6-7 damage
Why aren't you running a max launch list for supreme cheese?
John Young
Because PHR is scum that must be wiped from existence.
Mason Rivera
I actually enjoy using broadsides too much to cheese it with max launch. I do generally run two Bells in every list, though. The Indomitable and the Resolute. They look awesome and they're highly effective, so why not?
Robert Parker
My desk is completely covered in Kingdom Death sprues right now. Including my light booth.
I plan on painting tomorrow though, so I should be forced to reorganize and will thus be able take pics.
Kayden Barnes
Idea: UCM bombers become 4+ lock with 3 attcks. Shaltari bombers become 2+ lock with 1 attack, 1 damage, and a special rule that every successful hit is a critical hit (similar to but subtly different from Particle)
Dominic Peterson
So with the franchise under new ownership, will this game finally get prepainted models?
Evan Baker
Probably not. That's part of the hobby. You could do a tiny bit of research to find that Carnivale and Rumbleslam (TTCombat's own original games) are also unpainted.
I tried various things for the recovery rule, but they're all pretty shit desu >units with multiple DP can be picked up to repair them to full health >units it can pick up don't disappear when destroyed and have a chance to be repaired to 1DP by being picked up >units it can pick up don't disappear and may subtract their kill points from the opponent's score >literally does nothing in game and is only useful strategically
Alexander Cooper
Plus it really doesn't make sense for repairs like that to happen in the timescale of a game.
Colton Barnes
What if you have easily swappable modules?
Benjamin Bell
Would make more sense with the PHR. Battlefield quick-fixes sound like a nightmare. Also, there's the card "field repairs" that essentially covers this topic.
Landon Parker
I want drop pods for PHR and I want them now
Bonus: they can Fulton air recover objectives onto any drophip that passes over them
Jackson Jackson
>drop in with AI-operated fully equipped one way pod that morphs into some sort of crab tank once everyone’s out >pop balloon drones and call for evac, get skyhooked by an Athena two seconds later >Athena drags you back to their Medea to get treatment for catastrophic whiplash Think of the sheer inefficiency of it all. The PHR is all about that wacky shit, step it up Dave!
Thomas Price
>>drop in with AI-operated fully equipped one way pod that morphs into some sort of crab tank once everyone’s out That would definitely be something they do
>PHR drop pod lands >deploys into semi-mobile cover for a squad of immortals, completely with emplaced heavy weaponry
Charles Cooper
...
Oliver Reed
I dont think theyd actually get whiplash, according to the DFC rulebook they have some sort of inertial dampening systems they use on their ships, im sure the PHR could make it small enough to fit on a drop pod sized object. Only problem is that seems kinda counter PHR operating procedure given they are low on manpower i dont think theyd be inclined to send down troops on what could be a potential one way ticket
Brayden Anderson
>I dont think theyd actually get whiplash Did you miss the "getting snagged by an Athena" part?
Zachary Nguyen
I don't think even the advanced medical facilities of a Medea can cure having parts of your body spread over several kilometres. They'd need a bucket to catch all the stuff that fell off on the trip there, so they could put it all back together.
Nathaniel Carter
Reminder that, including immediate crippling damage, the Particle Triad does a little over 6.5 damage per firing. I.E: very likely to cripple a heavy cruiser in one hit. Funnily enough, before the change that made it so that particle weapons didn't auto-crit for the purposes of rules interactions, its average damage was only around 6.75.
Jaxon Ross
This, basically. You're talking about a setting with inertial dampening and gravity nullifiers. Drop pods are completely feasible with that kind of tech. You can do a lot of funky stuff when you can handwave away laws of physics.
Parker Reed
...
Charles Gray
anyone can tell me when the 2nd edition of dzc comes out?
Logan Ward
at this juncture we have no idea, some time next year Id hope, but given the fuckery going on who knows
Cameron Carter
Official ETA is April 2018
Andrew Morgan
Bump
Caleb Reed
>tfw thread is kill :^(
Daniel Moore
couldn't resist holiday sales and ended up getting a bunch of dropzone shit i originally intended on waiting until i finished my painting queue to pick up
was so close too
Lucas Allen
Where from? I grabbed a Nemesis walker from WarStore, but figured anything more ought to wait until we see the state of 2.0.
i didn't go crazy considering 2.0 coming up but got the models i wanted just because i like how they look
Nathaniel Wright
...
Kevin Ramirez
...
Adrian Sanders
Bump
Juan Cox
Fuck, my enthusiasm for this game and general really has just died near completely. And if recent activity is any indication others are feeling similarly. Fuck TTC.
Thread's gonna be running on fumes until at least April, methinks.
Grayson Garcia
What about Sheltari traffic james, will those be fixed?
Elijah Long
Same. I'm willing to be okay with TTC if they can somehow find a good dev team to work with Dave ,yknow, like the ones they fired :^), or get their own guys up to speed, but the bullshit way they handled the situation is going to mark them for a long, long time.
Elijah Turner
>literally first and only post by TT on the Hawk Forums is a reply just now to a thread titled "Hawk is dead, long live TT" from a month ago with no replies otherwise top wew
Aiden Edwards
UCM I'm working on, c&c welcome
Leo Nguyen
Here's the top
Justin Gonzalez
i know your feel man, and its not a feel i want, someone hype me up
Leo Wood
Sad thing is, my enthusiasm has been restored with the influx of a new addition to my UCM fleet, bringing it up to strength with my scourge. That, and recruiting another player in the area. But he wants to get stuff and can't right now, unless somebody knows where I can snag dropfleet shit while hawk is down.
Christian Sanchez
We know that the PHR are probably/possibly going to be getting a proper gunship in 2.0.
Eli Howard
what other colors are you considering? Also UCM really likes having panel edge highlighting done on them, usually looks nice if done cleanly
Owen Jenkins
Considering edge highlighting the panels, but I don't know if I'll be able to keep my hands steady enough for that. I was thinking blue grey 2 or blue grey 3 from warcolours as the final highlight.
Landon Wright
dont have to worry too much about steadyness, its pretty easy to fix highlighting mistakes as long as you apply thin coats
I wonder how big ship-based Scourge plasma cannons are. Atleast Ahhnihilator sized, right? Do you think it's a bunch of "small" cannons, or a variety of many sizes?
Ryder Murphy
May be a variety of sizes, but they are all larger than the ground based versions including the annihilator, they are the grey triangle protrusions on some of the scourge ships, like the wyvern.
Caleb Butler
Are they the actual triangles, or are those just bays for all the cannons? The Djinn has the same level of CAW as, say, the Sphinx, so they Sphinx has got to have some hidden around that aren't in the normal CAW locations.
Tyler James
Those are absolutely based ship names.
Jack Long
I dont think its been established, Im sure dave could explain the specifics I dont know if those are aperatures or some sort of projector, I know the scourge plasma weapons fire a solid projectile which projects a magnetic bubble around which contains the plasma, how the ships launch these and or whether they have some sort of guidance is not explained
Juan Bell
I'm fairly sure that the plasma guns are just that; big guns; close-in direct fire weaponry, like the smaller guns you see on WW2 era battleships. Obviously, this is opposed to all the missiles and such from the other factions.
It's likely that they've got banks or clusters of plasma cannons hidden all around the ship (probably in places like the nooks on the main wings, under the edges of the dorsal hull, near the prow, etc). The CAW focused ships just have extensive banks and batteries of the things (or larger calibers) mounted in the triangle-like areas.
Ryder Flores
What do you guys think of my 994 point UCM list? Armor battlegroup 6x Sabre 222 3x rapier 135 3x condor 93 no upgrade
Heavy battlegroup 2x gladius 118 2x condor 32 no upgrade
Woops forgot the 3 rapiers in the heavy battlegroup
Zachary Peterson
>2 Bear >4 Legionnaire bases Check out the army builders in the op my dude. No half-empty Bears allowed, it's 3 per APC or nothing
Though you'd be better off just getting Raven-As and forgetting those Bears even exist until you get some mortar or flak teams desu. Light dropships are a big deal.
Otherwise it's a fairly sound concept to start with even if I wouldn't take it to a tourney. There's plenty of things I'd recommend getting afterwards, but first the list has gotta become legal.
David Brooks
You need some more infantry. I would suggest switching to ravens as well so you can search two buildings at once. Three squads in Ravens should be the goal.
Tanks in UCM are a little weak. Gunships are the UCM's strength. Maybe drop 3 sabres and a condor and add in some gunships.
You want to also maximize your battlegroups. If you are short the max amount, that means your opponent can have multiple activations in a row. This can be utterly devastating if someone uses that advantage right.
Kevin Adams
I kinda like the sabers tho, With this setup I get 10 energy 10 shots per turn, so if enemy infantry hole up in a building I cant storm with my infantry I can just take it down from a safe distance. Ucms tanks strengths are their long ass range and and decent numbers. Also if Id have to drop 2/3 of my tanks or 1/2 my AA to get another infantry battlegroup
Mason Hill
I meant to say 2 bear 6 legionaire Also im not looking to turney, just a fun list to play with
Jacob Murphy
The tanks are fine for casual play. That many Sabres alongside Gladii may be a little redundant though, they basically do the exact same thing at this point (though Sabres are better for it imo since the proliferation of high energy weapons mean that 2HP often doesn't help that much)
Raven-As are still good advice. They also have the added benefit of allowing you to split your dudes between two battlegroups, by just having one dropship per group.
Wyatt Smith
>From the hawk forums:
Hello Everyone,
After reading through there seems to be alot of concerns and hopefully i can alleviate some of these for you.
TTCombat is indeed part of the Troll Trader Group, Troll Trader LTD started out as a online retailer for wargaming products and have been going strong in that area for several years now. Due to the high levels of stock we maintain we started receiving requests to stock other stores and set up Kingsley Distribution which is our trade division and have been increasing our network for the past few years. Although we have not got major US distribution it is one of our key goals for 2018 and having been in communication with the network hawk used we have added this to ours and will continue growing this so all our products are easily accessible to everyone.
TTCombat was created as a review site and started branching out into MDF scenery and found that we where better at this and has progressed from there focusing on becoming the design and manufacturing division of the Troll Trader Group. Our primary range has been MDF scenery and have only recently entered the realm of games design. The first game we worked on was our original game Rumbleslam which saw release earlier this year, during this time we where also working on the new version of Carnevale after taking over after the closure of Vesper-on games which has achieved a successful Kickstarter and will see general release in 2018. And recently we have gained Relics, Dropzone Commander and Dropfleet Commander and will be working on these alongside our other projects.
>(cont)
Chase Bennett
Although relatively new to the game design scene we have expanded our staff drastically this past year from 13 to 48 and looking to increase to around 100 once our new production facility has finished construction early next year. This has allowed us to increase our manufacturing ability across all our ranged drastically already and bring in several talented members to the team to ensure we are developing well, as a company we have a scary amount of years experience in war gaming and plenty of experience with design, manufacturing, distribution and general business practices and as we continue to grow we will gain even more.
David has been integrated into the TTCombat design team and has been made the project lead for Dropzone and Dropfleet so his work will consist of miniature design and rules development, so the games will continue just the way they did before but with significantly increased production allowing everyone to get the nice new toys. Other members of the hawk team have also been integrated into TTCombat and continuing to work within their respective roles, others unfortunately where let go and although there are reasons for this decision (which was not taken lightly) we have avoided discussion regarding this due to its sensitive nature for those involved.
In order to make sure that V2 is the best it can be we pushed back its release so David could finish his work on it without rushing it, with his time being taken up with business matters these past months he was unable to dedicate enough time to the design aspects, now he is part of the TTCombat design team he can focus solely on those aspects and complete V2 the way he originally envisioned.
>(cont)
Adrian Watson
At the start of 2018 we will be looking to introduce the new Talon Program and go through a new recruitment process for others to join the ranks, at the moment we have our hands tied with the fulfilment of the outstanding webstore and KS orders and repairing the distribution network but are looking to get some plans sorted very soon.
Apologies for the essay but hopefully this clear up a few points we understand many of you are hesitant or unsure about the future of these games but we intend to make them bigger than ever before and for people to be playing them for many more years to come.
Dylan Cox
You a local to Game Kastle? There's lots of people playing DFC and some new DZC players in the bay area.
