/STG/ - Star Trek General

Is it? This seems about the usual pace of things. Especially for a new thread.

>That being said, what is it with the Klingons and their frequent dishonorable activity?
>From their attempt to frame Worf, to cloaked ships ramming a ship after a cease fire, to the attempt at deception to conquer Cardassia.
>These are not the actions of an honorable state.
What you need to understand about the Klingons is that when Worf says "Nothing is more honorable than victory" he isn't kidding. The Klingons view triumphing over their opponents as absolutely honorable. The means only matter if you lose or get caught. If you win, you get to write the history, and the history's gonna show that you were honorable as fuck because no shit it will.

Worf is a Klingaboo, just like weebs are weeaboos and the noble samurai can do do nothing wrong, the noble honrable klingon can do nothing wrong.

Remember, worf was raised by Russian humans... and learned about Klingon Society from the outside, and idealized version.

That's why Klingons are always letting him down.

>having gone as far as irradiating Romulus's surface and blowing up a Sun (Ferenginar's at that) and executing all Slaves in the Empire wholesale (though a good move given what happened to the Cardassian Union at the time).
When did all that happen?

Mirror Universe.
Try to keep up.

Ah, I remember. I kinda prefer the MC esher walk-in wardrobe anyways.

>That being said, what is it with the Klingons and their frequent dishonorable activity?
In literally every example of ideological doctrine in human history, there are countless examples of people bending the doctrine so far they end up acting the opposite of what that doctrine is supposed to mean while simultaneously twisting reality to justify it.

In the Mirror Universe, the events happened as followed:

The Alliance managed to obtain a Thalloran device, constructed on Romulus.

In an ensuing debacle with the Rebellion and Romulans, it was detonated, irradiating Romulus's entire surface with all of the predicable results.

Though not intended, it was a victory as it only cost the Alliance a single warship, which was destroyed by the mirror universe counterpart to Excalibur. The Alliance apparently went on to annex parts of the former Romulan state.

Sometime later, the Rebellion formed a new state called the "Galactic Commonwealth", which the Ferengi recognized immediately.

This angered the Klingon Regent (Klag, who defeated Martok for the position sometime before) and he proceeded to take his 9th Fleet and start blowing up stars, beginning with Ferenginar's.

The method of destruction was a Trilithium device, much like Dr Sorian's from Generations.

I know. I’m asking when that ever came up. Or is this from some spurious novel series.

If you don't know, you clearly have not watched enough Star Trek, kindly remove yourself back to a 40k lols thread.

Everybody is a turbo-asshole in the MU. Besides Brunt, that is. So I’m not sure that a direct comparison works.
You could look at something like the alternate reality from Yesterday’s Enterprise and draw similar conclusions though. Without the treaty ever being finalized, the Klingons never left the old ways and went full murder-hobo across the Alpha Quadrant.

It was from the Mirror Universe Anthologies.

Specifically, Shards and Shadows and Rise Like Lions.

It was from a fucking book series, you mongoloid moron. That's deep in beta canon and well outside the range of something someone should be expected to know to join a community. Please remove yourself both from /stg/ and the gene pool.

From the post above yours looks like STO shit

>Klingons never left the old ways and went full murder-hobo across the Alpha Quadrant.

Now how'd they even accomplish that?

I thought their fleet was smaller than the Federations?

I've also suspected their economy might suffer for it as well, thought this could be speculation.

You know that Memory Beta exists and can answer this question, right? If you ever have this kind of query in the future, give MB a try and see if you can find the source yourself, it's pretty well curated for a fan wiki.

memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Portal:Main

It’s never explained. But my money is on the Romulans supporting the Klingons and planning to betray them one the Federation is destroyed.

STO blamed the Tholians, but I thought their whole “multi-dimensional Tholian Time Empire” thing was just a bit dumb.

No actually in STO, things progressed much differently.

SOMEHOW the Terran Rebellion defeated and possibly destroyed the Alliance, resuming their place as the dominant power in the Mirror Universe's Alpha Quadrant.

Apparently Miles Obrien in that universe met his end at the hands of his son, whom is encountered, fought and defeated along with his Typhoon class I.S.S Molly in STO.

Leeta has also apparently gone off the deep end, commanding the Odyssey class I.S.S Enterprise and using strength gained from the Pah Wraiths to mount a campaign of insurrection aimed at overthrowing the current Emperor.

She also goes as far as aiding the True Way in the Federation's universe to further hers or the Empire's aims.

Over all, it seems Terrans learned little in the decades of their subjugation, apparently attempting an invasion of the Federation (Why do they always try that in the games and media? That is getting a bit played out as an idea for them).

>Romulans supporting the Klingons and planning to betray them one the Federation is destroyed.

Now that I think about it, it seemed like either the Klingons or Romulans would betray one another once their dual goal of defeating the Federation had been accomplished.

In fact, in theory, could the Romulans have capitalized on the Praxis disaster to push territorial gains against the Klingons were they not in an alliance at the time?

Romulans. It’s always Romulans.

Watching with a quasi-critical eye,I simply cannot take the concept of the Holodeck seriously anymore. At first I started making my Holodeck posts as a joke ("Why don't they call it X instead of a Holodeck? The name is misleading") but I'm starting to get annoyed whenever anyone uses the Holodeck. I just can't stop thinking about all the plot holes, the unbelievable decisions that people make, the fact that it's possible for the technology to work flawlessly while not responding to controls because of some major spatial anomaly, there's so much about the Holodeck that doesn't make even a little bit of sense. And then there's the fucking Doctor. They put a bunch of EMHs in a cave system to mine dilithium or something, but they can't set up holoprojectors around Voyager? Actually, we know that they CAN and DO do this--in that episode with the Hirogen, we see it done, it's the entire plot--and no amount of handwaving can make me believe that there is some reason that makes sense diegetically NOT to have done this before. And the mobile emitter almost never malfunctions; when it does, they can fix it, no problem. It's even more unbelievable than Geordi's ability to operate on Data's positronic brain without actually being a cybernetics genius like Singh was. Why the fuck can't they make more Datas? Why the fuck can't Data experience emotions but Moriarty can? If a Holodeck replicates matter on demand, why can't the replicate and android? Why does that replicated matter lose cohesion when it leaves the Holodeck if it's replicated, rather than projected? Who decided that the Holodeck was a good idea?

...

>it's possible for the technology to work flawlessly while not responding to controls because of some major spatial anomaly,

Plot Contrivance>They put a bunch of EMHs in a cave system to mine dilithium or something, but they can't set up holoprojectors around Voyager?

Holoprojector Technology is expensive in terms of its energy use, and may not be 100% replicateable. Voyager always seemed to be running at an energy deficit. Still I agree, I think putting some holoprojectors in key places would have solved a lot of problems. Bridge, Engineering, etc.

>. It's even more unbelievable than Geordi's ability to operate on Data's positronic brain without actually being a cybernetics genius like Singh was. Why the fuck can't they make more Datas?

Geordi was only ever doing basic maintenance, never altering systems whole cloth, It was mostly all scans and minor repairs when needed. Also in "The Measure of a Man" Data is a living being with full rights, You don't build a slave race.. Also as a whole, like genetic modification The Federation doesn't seem to keen on smart A.I. in its borders.

>Why the fuck can't Data experience emotions but Moriarty can? If a Holodeck replicates matter on demand, why can't the replicate and android? Why does that replicated matter lose cohesion when it leaves the Holodeck if it's replicated, rather than projected? Who decided that the Holodeck was a good idea?

Data can, with a chip upgrade, and Moriarty can because hes a different kind of A.I. Also there is nothing to say that his Emotions are anything like human emotions. Moriarty is also a holodeck fluke that likely came about because of the Binar's upgrades at the time.

Some Matter loses cohesion, some does not because somethings are replicated props, the famous snowball, paper, items that people are likely to handle in a program are replicated, but static things are not, if a person does touch a static object,

But why is it on the ship? It makes even less sense than the families.

And why don't they call it a smart-matter chamber? Clearly it's not just holograms. The name is misleading.

touch a static object its simulated with forcefields at first and later a "prop" is made if the computer things you are going to interact with it more....

A weird thing, if the computer thinks you are going to touch a person in a holodeck, it actually makes a puppet that it controls with force fields etc, but if it doesn't expect you to touch it, its just a holoprojection with a force field.

So if you tossed 2 people out, 1 puppet and 1 holo projection, the puppet will exist outside of the holodeck, but its strings would be effectively cut.

In short the Holodeck can make sex puppets.

The Same reason for families, humans work better with families around, and they work better when you give them better recreation facilities.

A lot of things are misnamed in life user, you park in a drive way and drive in a parkway.

Also Early Holodecks were just big pleasant environment chambers. Just holograms and sound effects.

It's one of those things where I hope the Star Trek predictions will turn out to be true. Early Holodecks being VR walking simulators as a half-step but then we get the good shit.

>SOMEHOW the Terran Rebellion defeated and possibly destroyed the Alliance, resuming their place as the dominant power in the Mirror Universe's Alpha Quadrant.

To clarify, the SOMEHOW is using future tech. Having conquered their galaxy, the 29th century Terran Empire sends a ship back in time to give future weapons to the early 25th century Terran Empire so that they can conquer their galaxy and, 400 years later, send a ship back in time to etc. etc.

The Imperial Starfleet didn't seem anymore advanced than the Federation's though.

In fact, they're using a lot of the same stuff unless there is something I am yet unaware of.

Imagine admiral Miles O'Brien commanding a war against Cardassians.

>O'Brien
>ever giving up the carefree life of a happy noncom

You and I must fight now IRL.

Mirror O'Brien was already a captain.

Can't be comfy nerd if spoonheads keep enslaving you. The only way to do that is to shoot them in the face.

Well sure, can't have all the riffraff getting their hands on advanced tech, the last time that happened an ensign got a warship from 100 years in the future and made herself Empress.

You'll run into some admirals flying around in mirror universe versions of the Wells from that one Voyager ep and other similar designs occasionally though.

Well it IS the mirror universe. It's supposed to be wacky.

I'm starting to regret making one of the major NPCs in my STA game a Caitian. Finding art of them that isn't either fetish bait or terrible shops of cats is suffering. I have the same problem with Tellarites, albeit with far less fetishes.

Catians were always fetish bait.

Don't need no fancy academy diploma to shoot bloody Cardies in the face.

Here you go. No need to thank me.

...

...

I mean, we already know there were dolphins on the Enterprise. Why not cat engineers too?

The NSFW edit is better imo

>The NSFW edit is better imo
WHERE

>NSFW edit
WHERE

Go to the biggest furry booru that begins with an e. Type in M'Ress. ??? Profit.

shit didn't think of that. my ragin man meat is depraving my brain of oxygen

>plague of gripes
Figures.

Happy Armenian Holiday to you aswell. Check your turkeys aswell they might be Chicken

> could the Romulans have capitalized on the Praxis disaster to push territorial gains against the Klingons were they not in an alliance at the time?
That was probably their plan. Ferment a conflict between the Klingons and the Federation, wait for the casualties to pile up and then start claiming systems left and right "in the interest of galactic stability". Unfortunately their master plan relied on the Klingons to act with an amount of subtlety. And, seeing as they were being headed up by a man that literally screams Shakespeare quotes over an open comm channel during battles, you can imagine how well that was ever going to end.

To be fair, just seeing the Klingons and Feds go at it was probably in the Romulan plans aswell, bonus points for removing the most hawkish Starfleet and Klingons at the same.

Yesterday I was thankful that sisko and his war crimes are just fiction. We don't need another Hitler.

You're incorrigible. I need to make more Sisko reaction images, but there's so little time between work and holidays I haven't even been bothering to post of late.

Until I can handcraft some new ones, the old one will have to suffice. Power on, Warcrimes user.

Never change, dude. I need more consistency in my life.

...

Yay!

That's a pretty good sized book, I bet I could knock out an asshole player with just one swing with that thing.

It’s good and thick but with a nice uniform height for an RPG rulebook. Sadly the command color bookmark just pulled right out but I can fix that.

>Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma Quadrants.

I know both Delta and Gamma are way off and only feature because of space anomolies but why is there no Charlie quadrant fluffwise (I know the name is shit). Is that ever explained.

There must already be a Charlie Quadrant or they wouldn't have named the Delta Quadrant Delta right?

It's the Greek alphabet, not the English one, idiot
Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma

Ah ok cool. Thanks bro.

In order, alphabetically, it's Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta.

Which brings up 2 things that have always bugged the autist in me. The Quadrants aren't aligned alphabetically. If you were to go clockwise from the alpha Quadrant you'd get it in the order of Alpha, Gamma, Delta, Beta. So it's like they're stacked in a weird, ascending-reading order.
And then there's the fact that half the "Alpha Quadrant Races" aren't even in the Alpha Quadrant. The Klingon an Romulan Empires are shown to be entirely in the Beta Quadrant. All because Earth has to be sector 001.

>And then there's the fact that half the "Alpha Quadrant Races" aren't even in the Alpha Quadrant. The Klingon an Romulan Empires are shown to be entirely in the Beta Quadrant. All because Earth has to be sector 001.
Yeah and a lot of the "western countries" are located east of the prime meridian.

Another confusing thing is the inconsistency in maps. There that one is a whole galaxy while others (which I prefer about 30% of the Milkyway).

Alpha quadrant isn't used as an economic/political identifier though. The Cardassians, Bajorans and Federation are all treated just as much like Alpha Quadrant empires as the Klingons, Romulans and Gorn.
The easiest solution would be to just rotate the quadrant by about 5-10 degrees (maybe to line up with Iconia as the delineator) and place all of the Alpha Quadrant empires actually in the Alpha Quadrant.

Don't think I've ever seen that one. Not bothered by the show taking place across the entirety of the Galaxy, seeing as they make it apparent in DS9 and Voyager that, without wormholes/advanced race fuckery, it takes a long, long time to get anywhere out of your local region.

>whole “multi-dimensional Tholian Time Empire” thing was just a bit dumb
How can single post be this pleb. The concept alone is worth, even if STo excecution is as far from the aim as possible

I like how obvious the map makers agenda is. Only the Korean and Israeli borders can be described as "heavily guarded" (by global standards) while the U.S-Mexico border is relatively well guarded. The Polish-German and Finnish-Russian borders are barely guarded at all. Even the map name sounds like some retarded dystopian sci-fi novel.

>Alpha quadrant isn't used as an economic/political identifier though.
Seems pretty clear it's used that way many times in the show. For geographical purposes there's the split, but when talking politically "alpha quadrant" seems to encompass whoever's close enough to the Federation. Again, just like how geographically "western" would refer to everything in the western hemisphere, but politically it's North America, western Europe, Australia+New Zealand, and sometimes Japan+South Korea depending on who you're talking to and the context.

>Finnish-Russian border is barely guarded at all
Those are some hot opinions there.

yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/border_guards_intercept_cheese_smuggler_on_finnish-russian_frontier/9767692

That's a reach. Plenty of empires that are directly hostile to the Federation get included as Alpha Quadrant races. It seems fairly clear that the writers thought that splitting it straight down the middle was a pain in the ass, narratively.

The larger scale (not full galaxy) Star Map is better because it really preserves the wonder of the immensity of space that even in our wildest dreams of Stellar travel even the Milkyway alone is barely explored.

>Plenty of empires that are directly hostile to the Federation get included as Alpha Quadrant races.
Yes, because they're physically close enough to the Federation to come under constant contact with them, therefore they are included as "Alpha Quadrant" whenever some smug Jeffrey Combs clone from the Gamma Quadrant wants to let them know how much their planets will burn.

It's not quite that simple. The Tzenkethi are one of the most mysterious races in the canon and they're in the Alpha Quadrant.

There's a difference between not fleshed out at all and mysterious.

Not really. It's literally stated Starfleet knows jackshit about them because they make sure it stays that why.

Sure in reality you're right and my argument is retcon but it's still canon.

The Breen, Tholians, Talarians, Sheliak. There is a decent list.

The Galaxy wide mad is also vastly unexplored. That white dot on is most of the Federation and the Empires adjoining it. Not to mention the hige areas of the map that are effectively left blank because nobody from Starfleet has been there.

Siege mentality is fairly commonplace. And a reductive, over-simplified map like that is really only ever going to play into that mindset.

Honestly this just makes me gag because all I can think about is wet fur.

Is it just me or is the sscale completely wrong on this?

I actually own one of those, it's a lovely ship to fly.
All the goodness of a Dreadnought and a Science Vessel.

Yeah, when was this map even produced? Cause the last few years have shown that, for example, the EU maritime borders don't have even token guards.

>Sheliak

Man, why have these guys never shown up in either STO or novels yet?

I know you're making a joke but having customs checks isn't "heavy guarding". And it's still the wrong way around. That's the Russians wanting to keep Finns out. The map is obviously trying to convey an "evil west is keeping everyone out" picture.

Does that map show a quasar? Inside a galaxy?

>trek writers know fuck all about science
Must be a day with a vowel in it, so

Because they were a 1-episode villain, they might be owned by a third party. (The writer that created them or the designer that made their look)
In which case, cryptic would have to pay royalties for their use. So they’re basically the Nick Locarno of aliens.

>I've also suspected their economy might suffer for it as well, thought this could be speculation.
I get the impression that their economy follows the Roman model. They'll probably be fine until they run out of neighbors to pillage.

...