Weekend Warcraft Lore General

Turns out they were both assholes, just one is willing to work with mortals.

They're still cunts. They just have a better power source that doesn't get them hateful sneers.

Hey, I'm a Darkspear. I'm just trying to make the best of things.

Here's a Blizzard lore question. Was Metzen forced to seppuku over MoP?

A power source they only got because the draenei pulled a fast one on them and redeemed them by reigniting the Sunwell (in the process of stopping Kil'jaeden's arrival, no less).

Y-YOU in SPECIFIC are forgiven

everyday I miss whfb's high elves a little bit more
There are simply no replacements for style

>when your mere existence causes eternal butthurt and strife across both factions and all races

Reminder that you live on stolen Troll land and Zul did nothing wrong.

>not just killing undead monsters to level

The naaru and the draenei redeeming an entire edgy emo race just about to give in to legion corrruption is still one of the best storylines in the game yet everyone forgot about it because they were busy screeching about a single line in the WC3 manual getting retconned.

Well, Blood Elves were a nice subversion of them.
Who could imagine GW going full retard and destroying the WHFB lore?

Honestly trolls and tauren haven't done anything bad. The orc and the forsaken are the crazy ones.

What got retconned?

yeah, gee that sure would suck for the fans
maybe even make a spin off of them with space marines

But seriously I'd take tragic heroic elves dying like the fall of gondolin route GW did than the monsters Warcrafts blood elves became

Blood elves aren't noble anymore. And that is the first rule of being an elf that isn't a hillbilly

Blood Elves in TBC were portrayed as being cruel, horrible mana vampires.

>the eredar and the nathrezim corrupted Sargeras
>the nathrezim corrupted sargeras

This.
It baffles me why they tauren don't get along with NE and side with the slayers of cenarious

He was their god too, at least for highmountain

Blood elves as a whole were assholes, yes. All they cared about was kicking their fel habit and rebuilding their power, and they didn't care who they pissed off in the process.

One could argue that they got the "cruel asshole" part left out from the Drow when the Night Elves were conceived, but yeah, not a fan.
Happy to see High Elves in the game time to time. So rare...
BTW how can HE even exist? They live like NE?

Because Thrall and his orcs saved the tauren from the centaurs, and Cairne Bloodhoof said "we're blood brothers now."

High elves get by with lots of meditation and self-restraint. They didn't go the way of the blood elves and get that fel cocaine to get their magic fix.

With Lordaeron in Human hands and Teldrassil burning, what does this mean for the Exodar and especially Quel'Thalas? Exodar can fly away, but the Blood Elves joined the Horde so they wouldn't get wiped, and were getting pretty close to joining the Alliance before.

Honestly I'm past the point of caring about Blizzard's shitty writing and Alliancefags memeing about dindus. If Blizz wants to treat us like bad guys and the Blues wanna pretend theirs isn't the favored faction that's fine. I picked Horde because they look cool, and no Make Human Paladin shouting about how we should just gas the green niggers is gonna change that. Alliance are just fantasy space marines and have all the personality of such. Stay out of my yurt.

Lok'tar Ogar motherfucker.

> be me
> just finished warcraft 3 and decided to get wow
> love the scourge total badassess
> oh shit I can play as them if I join the horde
> hype.jpg
> instead of being a literal personification of death brought forth by Satan to destroy all life I follow Sylvanas
> Sylvanas
>a bitch elf female who thinks way to highly of herself that Arthas killed in like 10 seconds
>I get her instead if Arthas
> just thinking of Arthas increases my man-crush on him
Is Arthas the peak of character development?

Cause the tauren were only a tiny tribe of bullmen who nearly got genocided by the centaur before the orcs helped him out. Then blizzard decided to pile retcons over retcons.

Nah, fuck that shit. Something about warhammer elves and like 99% of the fantasy elves just makes them look like absolute trash to me. They are so painfully derivative, one dimensional and banal, both storywise and visually.

I really like how "cartoony" and stylized blizzard made elves. Their color palettes, armor, weapons, etcs are so instantly recognizable and aesthetically pleasing. If you'd show someone an image of a drow, he couldnt tell which one of the gorillion settings and its derivatives it came from but everyone would instantly recognize a night elf.

The Forsaken always bug the shit out of me, even in Legion still "Hey Archdruid, why don't you come shoot toxic shit at people in our boat? Oh, guess it crashed and now the whole place is infected with this shit, oops!".

They need to be purged.

I saw you posting this in the last thread and I'm interested too, hope you get an answer.

Not necessarily, but the story of Arthas was one of the most central plotlines in all of Warcraft III. It's why Wrath was such a big deal for so many people and why the final fight at the summit of ICC wasn't bugtested on the PTR.

>With Lordaeron in Human hands
It's completely indefensible and in the middle of Forsaken land, it won't stay in human hands when a) Lordaeron citizens are all Forsaken and b) literally right above their new capital

It means snapping back to the status quo, what else? Like Orgrimmar getting occupied by the Alliance, telling them to play nice kids, then fucking back home.

And why people were so let down how ICC was just blue corridors all day, every day for a year.

Okay. I need to say something. Void Elves... slightly make sense. They have a slight justification. A very slight one. Lor'themar started having the ranks of the spellbreakers filled out again. Given a bit too much zealousness, they're effectively the SS to root out users of corruptive magics.

I can't justify the void elves as a SUB-RACE, but the existence of exiles and refugees is legit.

So, blood elves decided to be addicted.
The existence of HE shows that another way was possible...

The irony, of course, being that the Light itself is a corruptive magic.

They're stuck in Burning Crusade, why they don't allow flying. When Blizzard decides to update it, they're untouchable.

what magic isn't corruptive?

The Night Elves historically hated the Tauren and wanted them out of their forests. They still maintain that attitude with the exception of a few druids. That's where this meme about Tauren being cow elves comes from: Alliance players whose only encounter with Tauren are the ones they meet in Cenarion areas. Which is like judging all Forsaken by that one guy in the Argent Dawn.

Most Tauren are just as fucking brutal and confrontational as the Orcs and Trolls. They have no problem raiding Ashenvale. They have every reason to remain loyal to the Horde. People forget the very concept of Tauren druids is a comparatively recent development. They learned it from an enclave of Night Elves who are themselves not indicative of their faction's leadership.

>wanna pretend theirs isn't the favored faction
Golly this is big
>Alliance are just fantasy space marines
Humans and Draenei MAYBE are.
>If Blizz wants to treat us like bad guys
Is not that. I would welcome that. The problems is Blizz having the horde doing the same outrageous shit the main villain do, but somehow we should feel empathy for these misunderstood anti-heroes.
The Horde, in its current incarnation, is pure shit (Tauren excluded as always).

None of them. There isn't a source of magic that isn't corruptive. To not be corrupted you need to understand the importance of discipline and put it into practice, otherwise the deeper you go the more likely you are to go insane.

Shaman and druid magic, basically. The elements and spirits are willing to play ball if you're willing to work with them, and when the Emerald Nightmare isn't out of control, druidism doesn't put you at risk of much of anything.

I'm pro Thrall and peace with the Alliance

You.

I like how.

Fuck all the Alliance whiners bitching when they haven't even followed lore beyond the quests made to suck them off.

Actually, High Elves just didn't want to feed off of magic sources they thought weren't good enough for them. Hence why they got kicked out of SMC, Blizz forgot all about magic addiction post BC, but the HE were just those who said "no fel for me, only high quality pure magic artifacts and a six course meal".

The HEs are pieces of shit because they decided feeling good about themselves was more important than making sure SMC didn't turn into withered.

Shamanistic magic and druidic magic are corruptive, though. You have shit like the elementalkin and the druids of the pack. Not to mention the big thing shoved into WoD that established that primal nature basically takes away the individuality of creatures in favor of a hivemind.

Gameplay wise? Nothing is happening with them this expansion

Lorewise the Alliance is still trying diplomacy with the blood elves so they ate hesitant to march o n them. Plus blood elves got the bluprints for anima golems and immediately put it into mass production so they have a huge golem army that doesnt require fucktons of mana to sustain. They also have a good defensible location. Conquring them would cost more than its worth currently

>The Scarlet Crusade specifically wants to destroy all undead and Forsaken
So, tell me, why were bad guys again?

The concept of the tauren druids is a retcon, just because they didnt want druids to be alliance-only too. A big mistake in retrospect. They should have kept warlocks horde only instead.

>when they haven't even followed lore beyond the quests made to suck them off.
lmao what

>learned it from an enclave of Night Elves
>laughing Tauren.smug

Check Chronicle, Tauren knew druidic magic before the Night Elves did, they just weren't called druids because Metzen had to make sure that Malfurion was a special snowflake.

>Horde doing outrageous shit the main villain do

Like declaring war with the intent to genocide, killing civilians out of spite, installing puppet governments after pulling a coup, and attacking their own allies?

Oh no wait, that was the Alliance.

Adding to this, I think there's evidence that the Old Gods and the Madness/Nightmare may be corrupted Primal Nature entities.

The Alliance has been as much if not more of a piece of shit than the Horde has been over the course of WoW, but Alliance quests never like to mention that.

The Defias brotherhood got practically retconned out of lore in Cata so they could jack off how great Varian was supposed to be right after an opening questing zone that calls the player the hero of the land and tells you how great you are.

That's not even covering how hilariously bad Alliance quests are at being neutral when you get into later expacs.

>They should have kept warlocks horde only instead.
Humans being warlocks has been a thing before WoW. Gnomes being warlocks makes perfect sense

Was just rewatching some Warcraft III gameplay. I love how they animated Illidan running in this, he's basically narutorunning on the tip of his toes it's absolutely ridiculous

Illidan has always been a fuckin' clown, even his last letter to TYRANDUH and MALFURIOOOOOOOOON is beta as fuck.

>The HEs are pieces of shit because they decided feeling good about themselves was more important than making sure SMC didn't turn into withered.
>Blues wanna pretend theirs isn't the favored faction that's fine
>Like declaring war with the intent to genocide, killing civilians out of spite, installing puppet governments after pulling a coup, and attacking their own allies?
"at which level of denial you operate at, Orc"
"like, 5 or 6 my Blood Elf"
"you are a little kid, watch this"

Aren't warlocks people who gain their power through demon juice?

>So, tell me, why were bad guys again?
The Scarlet Crusade was an organization run by a Dreadlord, user. They were corrupted through a mix of their zeal turning them into mindless tools of the Light and that zeal being manipulated by the whispers of a Nathrezim wearing one of their number as a suit.

Hence why the Scarlet Crusade attacks everyone and not just undead. Everyone is corrupt in their eyes.

No

There is nowhere near enough detail here to consider it a proper answer

They were played like idiots by a dreadlord the entire time. Beyond that, their zealousness made them irrational and untrustworthy even to the Alliance's ranks. Scarlets trust no one but other Scarlets, and that's not how you play ball as a holy order.

>Humans being warlocks has been a thing before WoW.

Nope.

>Gnomes being warlocks makes perfect sense

Get the fuck out.

It made zero sense for anyone but undead to be warlocks. The orcs have just magnaged to escape their corruption and the humans were suspicious of even regular mages,

Human warlocks are just pretty characteristic. Tauren needs more classes and druid fits them. (although hunter + shamans are more appropriate classes).

>Alliance never has any actual arguments when confronted with lore
>instead resort to whining on the story forum about how unfair it is that they don't get a fourth expac in a row to suck them off

Keep crying

>tfw no large scale warcraft game ever

Speaking of which, apart from the troll wars where the quel'dorei used the humans as meatshields, did they ever do something like the asur did?
Like did they have extensive trade contacts and a seafaring tradition?

Then why in Warcraft 3 orc shaman turn into warlocks only when they get high on demon blood again?

>humans were suspicious of even regular mages
What kind of arse do you pull your knowledge from

Was it said in vanilla that C'thun or anyone was influencing them, or did this come during Cata when they did that Firelands raid?

Just say you don't have any rebuttal instead of weakly trying to save face.

>The concept of the tauren druids is a retcon, just because they didnt want druids to be alliance-only too. A big mistake in retrospect. They should have kept warlocks horde only instead.

Much as I love both classes, an easier solution would have been to just merge shamans and druids. Horde guys would be shamans, alliance guys would be druids, but the mechanics would be the same.

Though personally I always loved Moonglade and all that druid secret club stuff so I'm fine with tauren just being druids.

You know, the original WC3 and WoW lore.

Anyone would have KILLED someone even attempting to be a warlock, especially the orcs and humans.

Didn't the Alliance complain so hard that it killed off Vol'jin and banished Baine from Highmountain?

If you click on Baine he talks about how we can learn from the Highmountain tauren, but never shows up in the zone.

But they hunt down undead. How is that not a good thing

Warlocks, as you'd expect, are people who make pacts with the powers of the Fel to control demons and wield their newfound power. Warlocks are also the most fragile of playable class to play, as there is an extremely slim margin of error as a warlock before you're lost to the temptations of the fel. Being a successful warlock demands incredible discipline and self-control and willpower, things the player character has in spades. Without those, you end up no better than the demons in your employ.

Warlocks are just there to be an edgelord class. If a warlock was caught by ANY faction in-universe, they'd be tortured for days/weeks before being killed.

Warlocks in WoW are a sort of hybrid of a demon summoner, a necromancer, and a general occultist. They don't just summon demons. They also violate everything held sacred by every faction.

Dunno about Vo'jin but yeah I've heard a LOT that Baine got removed from Highmountain because of Alliance bitching

Yeah, but they left in half of Val'sharah being about Tyrande and Malfurion and having her follow the player around belittling them if they're Horde because Horde bias is super real :^)

Why does a conquering and enslaving force have to be labeled as "evil"?

Because they also torture normal people, including killing other races not human.

>inb4 garithosposting

>The Defias brotherhood got practically retconned out of lore in Cata
My name is Vanessa Van Cleef. You killed my father. Prepare to trip balls on my poisons before you die.

I am not crying, I have just contempt.
Blizzard completely destroyed the horde and made it yet another villain faction.
The Forsaken were pumped sky high to the point that many former Ally territories were destroyed, part of the storyline was centered always on one of their warchief, and still I have to read bullshit like "Blue is the favourite faction".
Come on
>Like declaring war with the intent to genocide, killing civilians out of spite, installing puppet governments after pulling a coup, and attacking their own allies?
Explain this. Let's hear your bullshit.

And yet Kel'thuzad managed to become a lich and one of the leaders of a world-ending cult. Again, what kind of arse are you pulling your knowledge from?

Are there any worthwhile warcraft PnP systems out there?

Vol'jin in the beta for Legion survives Broken Shore and mentioned needing to go find someone who was around when the Legion last came.

Considering his connection to Bwomsamdi, people expected some loa shit. Alliance players lost their fucking minds and demanded that he be killed off to "balance" Varian's death. So Varian got a giant send off and an in-game and out of game memorial with media constantly depicting a giant tragedy and Vol'jin got stabbed by some random demon. Varian got a revamp of Stormwind with a new OST for a grave and Vol'jin got some rocks.

And then the Alliance bitched that Varian died.

>Much as I love both classes, an easier solution would have been to just merge shamans and druids. Horde guys would be shamans, alliance guys would be druids, but the mechanics would be the same.

Are you really this retarded? Vanilla already had separate classes for the factions. Instead of bitching out and homogenizing they should have added even more, possibly an unique class for every race. In very early testing even shadow priests were undead only.

Blizzard bitched out from having a zealous and paranoid holy order as the enemy so they quickly put in a dreadlord(that every paladin should have been able to detect) and called it a day. Later they even shamelessly repeated the whole with with a SECOND dreadlord who convinced them into becoming scarlet shadow priests and warlocks and how its all the lights doing.

So i was right, only people who consort with demons can be warlocks.
Why would a class like this be available to Alliance players?

>That's not even covering how hilariously bad Alliance quests are at being neutral
This. What the fuck this even means?
How can you pretend that people can take you seriously.
And the Defias? Really? You can compare what happened with the defias with the shit the Forsaken pulled? Are you for real?

>If a warlock was caught by ANY faction in-universe, they'd be tortured for days/weeks before being killed.

It's hammered home in all the warlock starting quests that they are tolerated because they have the best knowledge of demons and are good at fighting them. Like rogues, they might be technically criminals but they're too useful not to use.

Jesus christ.

Kel'thuzad and the Cult Of The Damned took advantage of a period when the Alliance was basically falling apart due to internal politics to seize land and expand their operations and holdings. They were aided by demons that came from the Legion directly.

Kel'thuzad became a Lich after he had been killed and then dumped in the fucking Sunwell.

How much do you enjoy 3.0 DnD?