Best way to do epic and high level warriors that don't turn them into anime characters, super heroes, or loony tunes characters? So far I've come up with...
>Monster Transformation
>Warrior/Mage hybrid
>Giant form.
>Herculean or Guts like display of power. Superhuman, but not cartoony in demonstration.
>Monster mount
>Magic Weapon or armor
>Mech
>Mutation, becoming ghost like or eldritch in nature.
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>Best way to do epic and high level warriors that don't turn them into anime characters
>>Herculean or Guts like display of power
user, Berserk an anime
>Best way to do epic and high level warriors that don't turn them into anime characters
>Posts a Final fantasy boss
You can't get more anime than Finaru Fanatasee.
>user, Berserk an anime
It's a comic, but I wouldn't call any adaptions of it on screen an "anime."
>First series has less than 3 minutes of animation an episode. More like a slide show.
>Movies were CG
>Next show was terrible CG.
I'm talking about Guts specific portrayal in the manga, which always showed fairly solid physics.
Except his portrayal in FF7 was far from "anime." It was much closer to a mythical representation of the wild hunt found in ye old tall yarn.
If you'd read actual epic stories about epic warriors, you'd find that they basically are super anime looney tunes characters.
>Be a man who runs around being such a badass the gods make a beast man to stop you
>Fight him for days
>Decide to become bros because he's a worthy opponent
>Fuck up giants for fun
>Gods send a divine beast to kill you
>Kill it
>The only way to hurt you is to kill the people you care about and cause you to have an existential crisis that cannot be resolved through physical strength, forcing you to accept true happiness and immortality comes from the fleeting beauty of life and the mark you leave
Beowulf fought his enemy naked then ripped their arm off and beat them over the head with it.
Heracles choked stuff to death whenever its skin was impervious to being pierced and once shot down a whole flock of birds in one go.
Arthur was the chosen one, spirited away and raised by a wise master until he could fulfill the prophecy, married his waifu, and had a magic kata... sword.
Sorry, as evidence by the other posts I wasn't being very clear. I'm talking about having a character keep gritty "realistic" esque physics feel to them, despite being able to flip over cars and overpower a bear. I'm asking how do you scale up a character and have the still feel realistic and relatable without getting into obvious physical anomalies.
Work out the setting so you don't need to have high flying DBZ fights to beat enemies.
It doesn't necessarily have to be flashy, you know. Why not have a guy who is completely unassuming, but a terrifying opponent in combat? No one really thinks he's a legendary sword saint until he carves up a whole mob by himself.
>Warrior/Mage hybrid
an option for players, but not really the answer to your question
>Herculean or Guts like display of power.
don't they have this already? especially with stat-boosters and such
>Magic Weapon or armor
this helps, sure
The best answer is to reign in magic a bit. I use a homebrew magic system for 3.5 that some guy on giantitp made that basically uses the psionic system. Spell points, augments, magical focus, the best spells only belonging to relevant specialists, and it really works. Every caster is spontaneous from a list of known spells (typically they gain 1 or 2 each level). However, in this system, rangers and paladins definitely outshine rogues and fighters. I'm not sure what to do about it.
I prefer if anybody can make magic items, as long as they have the skill and materials needed. I also tend not to use monsters larger than huge, with a few exceptions (rocs, krakens, purple worms, maybe other sea monsters)
What is your actual problem here? Fighters flying?
Guts' berserker armour lets him bounce all over the place
Cú Chulainn goes full incredible hulk, monstrous transformation.
>>Monster Transformation
>>Warrior/Mage hybrid
>>Giant form.
>>Herculean or Guts like display of power. Superhuman, but not cartoony in demonstration.
>>Monster mount
>>Magic Weapon or armor
>>Mech
>>Mutation, becoming ghost like or eldritch in nature.
Are these what's supposed to be NOT anime or super heroes?
>epic and high level warriors
>not anime
cant be done, look at the Indian myths- thats DBZ levels of stupid, just because it wasnt cell shaded doesent make it not "anime" in the sense you mean
epic level fighters are the stuff of mythology, and mythology is pretty anime
>feel realistic
you dont, at high/epic levels you're all demigods of war and destruction, realism went out the window 13 levels ago
>relateable
being powerful=/= being fulfilled or impervious as a person, look to myth
It's a manga, like most Anime started as.
You do realize 90% of Anime is just a long ad for the comic said Anime is based on right?
That's why nothing ever concludes, they just stop making new episodes. The anime served or failed to serve it's purpose and the sales of the manga are affected or not.
>guts isn't cartoony
Truly a super serial sword. Berserk is so realistic I sometimes forget that it's a fucking Japanese comic book.
It's a pretty popular idea that comic books and such are just a modern version of the story telling that became 'myth'. We just know Cyclopes and Wolverine are in fact not real and Stan Lee never claimed these where super serious real stories of the past age when the totally real God's hung out in New York City.
Sounds boring senpai. Go jerk off to fencing manuals or something
the greeks also knew, myths underwent purposeful changes to reflect the authors view and outlook, with characters having multiple versions and being created/altered to push political agenda
>That's why nothing ever concludes, they just stop making new episodes. The anime served or failed to serve it's purpose and the sales of the manga are affected or not.
I didn't actually know that. That's interesting. It's weird to see a print media industry slaving a live production industry to it. As it's the opposite here in the states.
>Best way to do epic and high level warriors that don't turn them into anime characters, super heroes, or loony tunes characters?
Doesn't exist. All the epic heroes/warriors from actual myth did shit that would make goku blush with how over the top it is.
Hindu myth was such a shounen anime that when they adapted it into a video game with asuras wrath they literally stylized it as an interactive anime series
It's not as cartoony as, say One Piece. The characters are legitimately impressed when someone starts doing crazy acrobatics and other bullshit during a fight. It's generally expected by other characters that people are going to move around like ordinary humans, and it causes surprise when they don't. And, even when people do move around in super human ways, it's still "grounded," much like how a wild beast or machine would move in our own world.
Just play anima: beyond fantasy. The game where a sword to the chest is almost as fatal at level 1 as it is at level 10
thats because its a relativley low powerlevel universe, while a high magic one like dnd isnt
Some anime do end, usually the ones that aren't based on manga.
>The game where a sword to the chest is almost as fatal at level 1 as it is at level 10
Just put DPs into Life Multiples my dude.
It is literally an anime by fucking definition. Anime does not mean "thing I don't like" you fucking retard.
Also all of those are anime ways of giving power. Hercule's is cartoony as fuck too.
See, that's what I'm looking for. How do you high fantasy, yet keep the appeal of low powered?
In order to have enough hp to tank an average hit from a longsword, someone with 10 con (the highest a regular human is expected to have) every class besides weapon master needs to spend 75-100DP
anima doesn't really suffer from hp bloat, it's all about avoiding attacks instead
>It is literally an anime by fucking definition. Anime does not mean "thing I don't like" you fucking retard.
No, it isn't. There's a world of difference between productions that had two dollars put into them and others that had millions funding them. Berserk has never had a quality live action production and I'm hesitant to call any of them anime. As two of them aren't, and other other one barely qualifies as a slide show. When I used the term anime I was talking more about how movement and action are shown. How close they are too honoring physics vs the laws of reality becoming unglued as stuff happens on the screen. There's a world of difference between supernatural and inhuman action vs spider man bending materials that can't be bent or changing his mass as he pleases.
>Also all of those are anime ways of giving power. Hercule's is cartoony as fuck too.
Yes, they show up in anime as well, but there's a method of having something "fit" in a more grounded setting than a looser cartoony one.
fantasycraft, I guess
You forget that you also get some LP each level.
Take their example character: First-level Acrobatic Warrior, 85 LP. Without armour, the attacker needs to beat her defence roll by 170 to one-shot her.
Explain, plz.
>high fantasy
but berzerk wasn't really high fantasy
sure you got the godhand/apostles, but they are 1. the enemy and 2.are/were very fucking rare
as to how? remove magic as a playable thing
or just do WFBRP
The way I did mine was "competence".
No rushing in, no "lol so imba", no power levels, just overwhelming competence.
He had a bag of holding fluffed as a weapon pouch. He reaches into the bag, and pulls out whichever sword he's selected to be appropriate to the fight. The right tool for the job.
While he didn't do any real "epic" things, during one scenario, he did pull off something kinda cool:
>out with the party, driving a cart with all their stuff
>bandits show up
>you keep poking that spear at me, boy, and I'mma jam it up your ass
>fight begins
>jams the spear up the bandit's ass
>picks up a bandit's horse and throws it across the road, crushing another
>rest of the party dispatches the other bandits. most of which are running away because he threw a fucking horse at them.
Sure, which is why I said it's almost as deadly, not exactly the same
You're forgetting that taking more than 50% of your current HP in one hit is a crit too, so you don't need to one shot that character to seriously fuck them up with one good hit
Someone with 10 CON starts with 185 LP.
google fantasycraft
it's a D&D based game that does a bunch of things better than 3.5, but some things worse IMO
most importantly, casters don't overshadow martials, and martials have a butt ton of options, both passive and active, and there's tons of variety
it's basically D&D: meta martial storytelling edition
>185
135
> I'm hesitant to call any of them anime
Then you're legitimately in denial
Berserk is very much high fantasy, dude and so is Warhammer Fantasy.
E6 or E8.
I liked one of the things they did in Moana with Maui as far as epic heroes go.
In most ancient myths, their heroes were generically better in every way: stronger, faster, more skilled, more cunning... but in The Odyssey, there's a part where Odysseus is telling his story to a king, and whether by Athena's influence or his own power, everyone is completely engrossed in his story.
So in an ancient culture, the ability to tell a story well would be considered a mighty, heroic ability.
And in Moana, Maui uses his storytelling as a weapon, putting together a musical number so enthralling that Moana can see what he's singing, almost like an acid trip, mistaking rocks and sticks for fruit and stuff. This lets him get away with her boat.
So that's one power I think is underrepresented, but is pretty heroic while also being low-key.
(relevant part at 2:06 on, by the way)
>Then you're legitimately in denial
I mean, I realize that it's "animated." But you have to realize that if you have no standards than technically Ego Raptor's videos are "animated," as well. I'm talking about Japanese hand drawn animation with more than a shoe string budget. That's what I talk about when I say "anime."
so FSN 2007 isnt anime? interesting
>but berzerk wasn't really high fantasy
After Griffith pulled off his reincarnation, it was very much high fantasy.
I meant before
What is that?
Studio DEEN's Fate Stay Night non-anime adaptation
i don't think there's any one comment that can be written that can make you realize what you're saying is an ouroboros of self-service where what you like is right and what you don't is wrong when the world itself hasn't crushed that childlike mentality out of you already
berserk, the manga, has an animated adaptation. it has an anime. that's it, isn't it?
granted, it's shit, it's god-awful, but it happened. and shit-taste people liked it.
it has no bearing on this conversation, though. this conversation is about how OP has shit taste and can't understand that human mythology has, since inception, been about the same wells of inspiration that modern anime draws from as well as other things. being larger than life, exaggerated, and outlandish, are all staples listed, and a major philosophy in animation is to exaggerate reality to convey feeling, and that philosophy exists in all ethnicity of the topic.
what i'm saying is, if OP thinks anime heroism is shit in representing high mythology, he's the outlier who needs to rethink how he's viewing things. We don't have to give him fodder to find excuses to avoid facing his own reality denial.
>DEENviantArt
...
why are you guys pretending that an adaption of a VN with terriible art looking bad is somehow surprising? Seeing as how fights like in the VN consisted of "shake the screen and blare sound effects, maybe put a speedline over the action" it's still a huge improvement
I guess it doesn't have super fancy computer graphic effects playing over the screen every second like the ufotable series, but 2007 was back when type moon wasn't a souless husk used to make massive corporations money
the Deen adaptation manages to look WORSE than the VN
and considering fucking carnival phantasm has better visuals it deserves the mockery
>i don't think there's any one comment that can be written that can make you realize what you're saying is an ouroboros of self-service where what you like is right and what you don't is wrong when the world itself hasn't crushed that childlike mentality out of you already
I'm talking semantics, not quality here. There's a ton of "anime" going by my definition that you couldn't pay me to watch. Still, that doesn't change the fact that we have terminology to help differentiate things so we know what we are talking about. There's "web toons" there's "western cartoons" there's "animated movies" "there's anime" there's "korean cartoons." I mean, that's an established way to call it what it is. I just don't find that some things fit that definition. Record of Lodoss war for instance, doesn't qualify as anime in my opinion because there's hardly any animation to it. If the show mentioned above was made purely with CG, that also wouldn't qualify as an anime. It would be a CG show similar to Reboot, but from a Japanese production house. If it's a hybrid of animation and CG, then I'd define it as the medium it most closely resembles. Again, this more semantics and not a determiner of quality (outside of a bare standard to meet the very definition).
>berserk, the manga, has an animated adaptation. it has an anime. that's it, isn't it?
It has two CG productions, one of which is terrible, and it had a very, VERY low budget anime. Something I personally wouldn't qualify as an anime.
>granted, it's shit, it's god-awful, but it happened. and shit-taste people liked it.
May the burn in hell!
>it has no bearing on this conversation, though. this conversation is about how OP has shit taste and can't understand that human mythology has, since inception, been about the same wells of inspiration that modern anime draws from as well as other things. being larger than life, exaggerated, and outlandish, are all staples listed, and a major philosophy in animation is to exaggerate reality to convey feeling, and that philosophy exists in all ethnicity of the topic.
Right, but you can exaggerate reality in a myriad of ways. What I was looking for is a specific "type" of way. A challenging way that's difficult. Like trying to eat something that's both hot and cold. A difficult recipe, hence why I'm on here asking for help.
>what i'm saying is, if OP thinks anime heroism is shit in representing high mythology, he's the outlier who needs to rethink how he's viewing things. We don't have to give him fodder to find excuses to avoid facing his own reality denial.
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying I want specific type of stylistic depiction that avoids certain specific physics wanks that I find distasteful. I've simply done an absolutely shit job in describing what I'm talking about!
>VERY low budget anime. Something I personally wouldn't qualify as an anime.
but it is an anime, it being shit doesent change the fact
also, anime can be CG
>I'm saying I want specific type of stylistic depiction that avoids certain specific physics wanks that I find distasteful.
then remove magic from the setting
I disagree. There two different things.
anime is japanese animation
3d animation is still animation
>but it is an anime, it being shit doesent change the fact
But, when something is so low budget that it barely it qualifies as the definition, then it really isn't that definition anymore.
For example, if I filmed three static pictures and then played music during the filming. Would that be a movie? There's no production qualities or frames or scenes or anything, but it's still film stock recording something with light and sound. I would argue that's it not a movie.
Same thing with the 97 Berserk "anime." Large portions of the show are static images put on screen with no additional changes to the scene or moving images. Just a static picture.
>3d animation is still animation
CG is a different method of production, separate from cartooning or hand drawn animation. Which, can be combined with the other styles. Still, it's a separate thing.
>then it really isn't that definition anymore.
You just said it qualified as the definition. Make up your fucking mind.
Nuh uh.
>it's a separate thing
its made differently, its still anime
just liek how computer drawn is still anime
No, that's because anime is much more expensive to produce than manga.
x amount of people buying a manga is plenty, but x amount of people watching an anime isn't enough to cover production costs.
Also op, most of the things you listed are even more op than what's found the average anime character.
You can give different types of weapons and armors different benefits, and make switching through them easier.
Read
But high level warriors ARE superheroes.
Silly user. Don't you know that a high level fighter shouldn't be capable of anything more than a reasonably trained normal man? That's the opinion of both Monte Cook-stye wizardfags and osr "muh realism" fightfags, so clearly it's what everyone wants, right?
That's debatable. We are dismissive of ancient beliefs and think of their scripture as fairy tale but at the time they probably took it a lot more serious.
We give a book of stories about Zeus and his children to a 12 year old and say these are ancient legends. But thousands of years ago Greeks thought Zeus and his children where real and the average person probably believed Heracles and Odysseus where real dudes once.
>superhuman
>realistic physics
>no obvious physical anomalies
...user I'm afraid you are probably going to have to pick two.
Dude, I forget what the term is actually based on but 'Anime' just means japanese animation. That is the begging and end of the word.
Berserk is an Anime. The one guy is being a bit of an ass but the more you talk the more you prove him right. You're definition is quickly becoming 'things I like' are not "technically" anime and things I don't are.
If it's from Japan it's anime. That's all Anime is. It has nothing to do with technique or production budget.
you forgot
>Always has a retinue of soldiers with him that work in perfect tandem
It's only morning and OP is already the biggest faggot I'll see all day, and I usually look in the mirror when I wake up.
The reality bends to epic characters in my setting. Most epic fighters always end up dueling in the middle of a mass fight due to this, the fighters get magic and curse immunity, mages can't teleport away etc.
>Cu Chulainn goes full incredible hulk
It's worse than that, the descriptions of his wasp spasms are incredible.
>When you enter a battle rage so hot the only way to stop you is to blind you by having all the women in a city bare their breasts at once, then all the men wrestle you into a barrel of ice water.
>The barrel explodes, and they wrestle you into another.
>It starts to boil, and they wrestle you into another.
>And you finally calm the fuck down.
And that's not the worst of it.
they held writing competitions to see who would write the best myths
Medea for example has went through several different versions and retcons (with the defining being euripides's version) and so on
does this mean they didnt believe in ALL of the myths? no, but were they aware that SOME are fake? yes
But Marie the Virgin Witch has realistic physics and an appropriate balance between magic and martial characters! No way that’s some nip toon!
>makes a thread to fix a problem
>is literally the problem himself
tg/ in a nutshell
Faggots derailing a thread.
Yeah, that looks like shit.
>Complaining about DEEN q u a l i t y
yes, yes it is
>magic can freely alter the laws of nature but my fighters have to be reali-
By not playing Dungeons and Dragons.
Also fuck off you twat.
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