/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls General

How many people each town in Skyrim SHOULD have? Can we estimate using historical knowledge?

At least 3 more people each.

But seriously, the town's populations should number in the hundreds if not thousands for most major cities, and the smaller settlements should have several dozen at least.

...

Have you heard of the High Elves?

Yes, unfortunately.

A good set of rules and how to balance the flavors of lore.

Other than that! Glad to see another comfy TES weekend! Y'all are aces!

Depends on what era of Skyrim.

Don't think there was too many when Ysgramor had to sail back to Atmora.

I was thinking about by the time of TES V: Skyrim

>420 blaze it whitetower elves

These are almost as bad as those cat-people on skooma.

Most people would living in scattered farms with the core 10 or so family members and some 10-20 farmworkers who work for the family head.

Villages should consist out of 10 or so joined farmsteads each with around 20-30 people living and working on them.

Smaller towns would have around 1k citizens.

Each capitol city of a county/hold should have around 5k people.

Each capitol of a duchy or imperial province in this case around 10k.

And the imperial capitol should have a population of 100 k people barring any recent wars that would Havana ravaged it.

So, is the kingdom of Daggerfall canonically seven thousand times larger than the entire province of Skyrim, or what? I get that this is probably a noob question, but what's the official take on the preposterously massive scale differences between the games?

...

Fuck off Vivec, go pester out Slaanesh or Sargeras

Canon nirn is slightly smaller than earth

Does unified High Rock irredentists consider both sides of the Iliac bay to be rightfully Breton?

>doesn't even mention the widespread jungles

>Canon nirn is slightly smaller than earth
That doesn't give me much to go on, Tbh. Especially considering all the "geographic time" horseshit. How big is Tamriel?

>A good set of rules
Didn't Tamriel start out as the setting some Bethesda devs were using for the GURPS game they played during lunch, or some shit? I thought I remembered hearing that they originally wanted to license GURPS for the TES games but realized it was too shit to actually work in a computer game, where there's nobody around to fudge everything.

No, this is completely wrong.
Interplay wanted to use GURPS for the original Fallout, but ended up having a disagreement with Steve Jackson and came up with SPECIAL instead.

>/tgwowg/ Here
since i can't ask on the lore thread

How Jaina, Dadgar and some of the well known mages of azeroth would fare on Tamriel? what it would be their views on Magic on that place since you can learn how to use the weakest spell of any school in a matter of days? the Organizations like the Psijic Order, Former Mages Guild now Synrod and the College and whispers, and places like the College of Winterhold, their views on politics or even the nature of magic itself in Nirn?

You shouldn't assume any of the sizes in any of the games to be canon.
A text from Daggerfall states that the city has over 110 000 inhabitants, which is much larger than the city in the actual game.

Personally, I've never really had an issue with the exact size of Tamriel being vague.

You're a faggot with wrong information. has it right.

>This is the IQ of a WoW lore nerd

im more a TES Loreret than Warcraft itself, since the company is more akin to retcon shit for the rule of 90's awesome

well in the arena the distances between cities are given and iirc the distance between narsis and rihad is about 3500km, i worked out that tamriel is about 5700 km wide, and 3200 km north to south

games=/=lore

Not quite sure, user! But I'm just trying to figure how to make something that will let players gave fun in Tamriel without overpowering them.

Far more, as the game engine limitations (lol) reduce the amount of NPC's per town to aid processing. In lore, at least what is referenced in TES:III Morrowind's era, is that Skyrim was sparsely populated outside of major cities, but places like Windhelm - the coldest place in all of Tamriel - had many citizens without count. Now, either nobody counted because they were freezing their asses off or there were a lot of people.

That said, "Blood on the Ice" was far more personal once you understood that the victims were likely very close friends in the community of twenty other full-dialogue characters.

10

Daggerfall sizes are most accurate to how the lore implies Tamriel is.
Everything's just compressed for player's benefit.
When you walk from Riverwood to Whiterun in Skyrim, that trek should be seen as less "a quick ten minute jog through the woods" and more like "a few days travel, with occasional stops to camp for the night"

There's much debate over whether this was a good move or not.

That's sounds fairly reasonable.

While I like the idea of trecking through a vast wilderness, as it's immersive, it doesn't exactly make for good game play.

I want an Elder Scrolls game that's also a hiking simulator, but at the same time I also want to dick around and complete quests without having to rely on fast travel or taking an hour's worth of play time to travel half way across the map.

Personally I think a different scale is all we need.
I think Oblivion should have been entirely set on the City Isle, with the City Isle being as large as the Cyrodiil we got. Could have been really cool.

I've actually thought about that too. I'd like a game focused within the Imperial City itself. Say it's like, a thieves guild focus or something. You have this massive city to explore, fences to hock shit, cashes of tools around the city so you don't have to carry shit on you all the time to get fleeced by guards. Something like that sounds awesome.

My ideal Cyrodiil game would be set entirely on the Isle. The City would be scaled up quite a bit so that each district is atleast the size of a city in Skyrim.
There'd definitely be suburbs outside the city, and since the Isle is supposed to be like the size of Ireland or something, I'd also expect to be able to travel to other towns that would reasonably also be on the Isle.

Thieves Guild would be a lot cooler to me with that increased urban element. The Imperial City sewers would probably be a lot more intricate and varied, as well.

All around I think if we just had a more detailed scale, we could really have a gem of a game.

In Redguard the map has latitude and Tamriel is 15°n to 45°n, it could be a slightly smaller continent.

I agree. IMO even Vivec in Morrowind is laughably too small. It's the size of a village, kills my immersion. (At least out in the wilderness they've got the right amount of population, i.e. none or some random weirdos in a small fort)

That would be pretty fucking dope.

You could probably expand that for all the Guilds too, give them all intertwining or seperate quest lines.

The Fighters Guild could start off as some sort of escort/bodyguard type of deal that turns into a sort of Taken/Man on Fire scenario, where you're cracking skulls and throat punching baddies to find your charge after they get kidnapped. Busting shit up in the lowest slum and working your way up the food chain until you're infiltrating a dinner party in the richest suburb to uncover a slave ring.

An Inqusitor-esque Mages Guild would be pretty neat. Working for the Imperial Cult and investigating robbed graves, reports of missing persons and arcane rituals. Rubbing elbows with cultist, thieves and murderers to get the low down on happenings. Work in some eldritch-type things and follow a conspiracy that runs all the way to the Imperial Council and involves the King of Worms.

Don't know about the DB, possibly an ever advancing string of assassinations that ends in a double cross by your employer, a power hungry politician/merchant who uses you to wipe out all of his opposition and then turned your guild in. Have the latter part of the line be dodging the Watch, interrogating associates of your former employer, following leads to find the bastard after he goes to ground. Culminating in a huge infiltrate and destroy mission where you crush his orginization before slitting his throat.

An IC based game could have a ton of potential.

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about an IC only Oblivion, I have fond memories and nostalgia of wandering around in that game but actually having a city worth exploring does sound nice. I think that last bit about how you'd do stories in it would be good for an RPG group.

Personally, I think Cyrodiil just needs the most work done in terms of cities/environment/culture, it should look like the melting pot that it is supposed to be.

Bumping this thread to ask about your favorite personal canons.

Mine?

The official story of Tiber Septim/Talos is the true one, everything else is an elaborate attempt to try and explain someone people think surely couldn't have existed.

I just like a setting having someone who was just the best of the best and the idea that someone did something so unbelievable that everyone tries to make explanations for what "really" happened.

Hjaltifags are truly the worst.

Kinda missed me with that one there, user. Don't know what "Hjaltifags" refers to beyond the name itself? Are you talking people who go with the Early-Beard story and version of events?

Nirnroot has some greater metaphysical attributes, maybe as a species competitor to the hist.

Oh! I like that one, would be a good way to explain why Hist doesn't really spread outside of the Black Marsh.

>I just like a setting having someone who was just the best of the bestidea that someone did something so unbelievable that everyone tries to make explanations for what "really" happened.
Why yes user, and his name is Reman Cyrodiil!

Reman is gucci, ain't gonna lie about that. But something about Tiber being someone who came out of nowhere and became a god in the most Plutarch-y "Great Man" sense just really gets to me, you feel?

What are some obscure enantiomorphic events you guys have heard of? Everyone knows the formation of Talos, Skyrim civil war, etc but what are some others that might be enantiomorphic.

Bump

I have a question I've been rolling around in my head for a while.

Lore wise, does the Wabbajack have an infinite number of possible effects or does it pull from a set list like it does in game?

And if it does have infinite possible effects... Is there a chance that it hitting something could cause it to achieve CHIM?

Lorewise I'm not sure if it's really confirmed, though I would says its powers are confined to mostly what Sheo can do...

...which isn't inconsiderable, but in TES you really can't make something more powerful than you are without outside help, as far as I know.

Jumping on that, DAEDRIC CULTS.

How do you involve them in your personal stories/tabletop games?

Daedric cults are there to work with the cultists, not the daedra.
Too often people use cults as means of communing with the princes, as if they give a damn about you. Makes the cultists themselves completely pointless outside of maid services.

Hist stick to Black Marsh because everything else got burned by ancient elves.

Redguards are the worst.

That's a funny way to spell "Altmer".

Altmer are second.

That's a good idea of it, user.

I like your moxie!

I would love to play through a game where you have to actually spend a day or two of in game time to get from one major city to another, frankly I can accept it for gameplay reasons. I would much rather have a well crafted, condensed world rather than either A) A world that isn't as well landscaped or B) a randomly generated one. Maybe one day the tech will be good enough but not today.

That said, I do think it is important to make a fine balance between civilized areas and Wilderness areas, you should be able to spend a day or two in the wilds if you clear dungeons and don't make an effort to actually walk towards the big cities without actually seeing a big city nearby.

I feel you. I do think there is something nice about that once in an era or two figure who came in and just changed the whole world.

How do you feel about Beyond Skyrim?

Haven't tried it yet, honestly!

But I'm not sure how much I want to go back to Cyrodiil with the lore of Skyrim in mind. The Aldmeri/Empire conflict...doesn't interest me as much as the shattered peace of Oblivion.

I know nothing about it, but I'm not in any hurry to go back to Cyrodiil.

Everyone does daedric cults. Do cults that don't worship daedra.

Well, it's not like it's just Cyrodiil. Illiac Bay is pretty far along, about as far along as Cyrodiil IIRC as is Roscrea. Morrowind and Elsweyr are also active I'm pretty sure.

I quite liked my intial runthrough of Bruma with a new character. Quests were pretty good, and I quite liked some of their in house lore, everything felt pretty high quality which was nice. I did like the theming of Cyrodiil as very much in a kind of depression and all in all at a low point, with Thalmor officers walking around Bruma and a lot of the music carrying simmilar themes to Oblivion's track while being a bit sadder and more somber. I'd definitely reccomend it personally.

>Thalmor officers walking around Bruma

I dunno, user. That's sorta iffy to me. Just because I liked the implication in Skyrim that the only reason the Thalmor were there was because the Stormcloaks pushed the issue. I'd figure Cyrodiil would be downright inhospitable to Thalmor agents.

I'll give it a whirl, though!

Trainwiz, you gotta start somewhere with your friends. They like Daedra? I'll give them a Daedric cult, they want to branch out? We can branch out.

But we all gotta start somewhere!

Well yeah, no one likes the Thalmor of course, but it isn't like there are armed officers walking around as widespread guards locking people up, just I think two Justiciars who are investigating Bruma's church as The Cathedral in Bruma is dedicated to St. Martin now, and they are unsure of whether that violates the concordat or not. .

To hell with that, drop em in the deep end and let em learn to tread water. Make em face down time ghosts and mananauts driven mad by the unsounds of the void. Let em fight giant evil books or roll to seduce an actual hurricane.

>roll to seduce an actual hurricane.
I see you've been reading my DM's notes again.

Trainwiz, I have actual friends that I want to enjoy themselves. I'm not going to go full 2deep4u on the onset of a game with them because to me, the best deepest lore is hidden in plain sight or just under the surface. They can follow a plot as they please, exploring the mundane or the spiritual as it fits them.

Because I want them to have fun! If they don't like all of Kirkbride's expanded stuff, that's okay, as long as they like the world of TES.

>St. Martin

I like that

I imagine the Thalmor would be iffy on that, as he did turn into a dragon and what-not. But the Thalmor could say "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEH, NOT STRIIIIIICTLY TALOS" or something.

Learn to mantle Tholastra, Demiprince of Sex With Things You Should Not Have Sex With

What system is best for Elder scrolls tabletop?

Plz no 3.pf

That's what the priest is telling them.
>What does the Concordant say?
>Well...
>What does it say?
>Look...
>I'll tell you what it says: No worship of Talos or Tiber Septim. It doesn't say anything about having a chapel honor a hero.
>*angry elf noises*

kek, sounds good to me!

I'll give it a try then, thanks!

I just gotta actually do a full on mega-mod playthrough of Skyrim and Oblivion soon! Just gotta figure out how to set them up.

Unironically go to /tesg/, they know their shit and have a pretty decent website set up. They get really helpful and nostalgic about modding Oblivion too.

Learn MO for Skyrim, it will save you a ton of headaches.

MO, user?

You might have noticed I'm a little bit out of the loop here.

tesgeneral.com/

Thanks for the help! I'll try and piece this together when I have some time in my life to do so.

I want skyrimfags to leave.

Anyone else get super bummed and depressed when they realize the devs will never ever care enough about the lore to put it in any new games?

Are you bummed by the Skyrim mod talk, user?

Sorry if we got a bit off track from lore/tabletop. What do you want to do talk about?

Yeah, sometimes. But then I also figure that the lore is still there for someone else to use and then rip it off shamelessly for games!

You're about a decade late with this realization.
>What do you want to do talk about?
What other cool and unique creatures could be found in High Rock?

What races do you want to see in the next Elder Scrolls that aren't currently playable? Can be Tamrialic (Imga, Naga, even Lilmothit etc.) or foreign (Tsaeci, Sload, Maomer etc.)

>What races do you want to see in the next Elder Scrolls
I don't want to see the next ES at all.
That said I was always interested in Dreugh and Maormer.

>tfw no game set entirely in a dreugh underwater metropolis

>tfw no game where you randomly morph into a land-bound, non-sapient crab then violently mate with others until you get bored and vomit out your genitals before heading back to the sea as a squid again.

I think for High Rock it might be good to go digging through old Medieval manuscripts and illuminated texts. All the weird creatures that monks drew up would make for a fun cross between monstrous and fae.

Akaviri.

Which? There are four known Akaviri races.

None of the four- the original people. Maybe they survived in some hidden valley or underground or wherever.

The Men of Akiviri might just be a literary device. It's also possible to interpret it as meaning they transformed into the Tsaeci, possibly by fusing with some kind of snake monsters.

Horrible creatures. I avoid them whenever I can.

>tfw no celt styled nords