MTG Ask a Judge thread

Yep, you can grab the thing that made it! Your dudes hits the field and triggers during the resolution of the spell, but it's trigger won't go onto the stack until the spell resolves, by which time it's a legal target in the grave.

Nope. When something change zones it "forgets", so if you flicker it you can, but the battlefield is one big zone.
>602.5b If an activated ability has a restriction on its use (for example, “Activate this ability only once each turn”), the restriction continues to apply to that object even if its controller changes.

This is correct. No spells for you.

I'll get back to this.

It's their store, they can legally make you leave for any, or no reason at all. It's private property.

>It's their store, they can legally make you leave for any, or no reason at all. It's private property.

Even after I paid the entry fee and they kick me during the first game?

Something that triggers during resolution doesn’t require targets until it has fully resolved?

So what about overloaded Mizzix’s Mastery, I’ve been making people declare targets during its resolution, is that wrong?

ALRIGHT, so, priority and the stack. We'll start with the stack and work our way into priority, as both are linked to each other.

The stack is a gamezone, just one that's not always represented with a physical place. This is where objects (spells and abilities) go to resolve. Objects are "stacked" on top of each other, hence the name, with the oldest object on the bottom and the most recent one on top. Whenever you cast a spell, activate an ability or an ability triggers it goes onto the stack. Then we have a round of priority. Priority is a system of determining who can act, if we didn't have it we'd basically be playing snap. During your turn, when the stack is empty, you have priority. If there is an object on the stack, everyone, starting from whoever caused it to be put there (usually whoever cast the spell/activated the ability) and going around the table in turn order, has the option of responding by casting their own spells or activating abilities. If somebody does, the round of priority starts again from whoever cast/activated the object. Once everyone declines to act (passes priority), the topmost object resolves, and the AP gets priority again. This repeats until the stack is empty, where there is another round of priority. If everybody passes while the stack is empty, the game moves to the next phase (eg, passing in main phase moves to combat phase). There are a few things you can only do while the stack is empty, such as casting creatures, activating planeswalker abilities and playing lands.

Is that understandable enough? I've tried to explain it as precisely as possible, I can give a simpler tl;dr if you want.

Yes. You probably can go back and complain, especially if the manager wasn't there, you might get your money back, but you don't have any legal grounds (not that I know all that much about law, I'm the wrong kinda judge for that). Go back and talk to them, tell them you don't think it was fair what happened. It's worth a shot. Otherwise, I guess just turn up next week without the hat?

It requires targets when it goes onto the stack. A common misconception (which I only learned during one of my practicals) is that abilities triggering != abilities being put onto the stack. Abilities will trigger whenever they damn well please, including the resolution of another object, but they wait until it's finished before moving onto the stack. You have to declare a target once they're on there, before anyone gets priority.

Mizzix's mastery doesn't target anything when it's overloaded. It exiles every instant and sorcery in the yard, then they may cast any number of them (kinda similar to above, they are cast but don't go onto the stack till mastery is done). This all happens during resolution, so you've been doing it right.

Arc Lightning
Sorcery, 2R (3)
Arc Lightning deals 3 damage divided as you choose among one, two, or three target creatures and/or players.

And then

"9/20/2014: If some of the creatures are illegal targets as Arc Lightning tries to resolve, the original division of damage still applies but no damage is dealt to the illegal targets. If all targets are illegal, Arc Lightning is countered."

Why doesnt the whole spell fizzle? I thought if a spell with multiple targets suddenly have 1 target illegal, then the whole spell fizzles, or am I wrong in this? If not, why does arc lightning get a pass, because you choose target and divide?

a targeted spell only fizzles if all the targets are illegal, not just Arc Lightning.

Not quite, a spell needs all it's targets to be illegal before it fizzles:
608.2b: "The spell or ability is countered if all its targets, for every instance of the word “target,” are now illegal."

I certainly agree that it's sorta strange that it works like this, but it works best for playability.

Thx

A player controls Lathnu Hellion and has 2 energy counters. At the end of his turn, he says: "Go. Oh, and pay 2 for the Hellion". Does he have to sacrifice the Hellion?

Maybe at a competitive event, L1's are only required to know about casual REL. At an FNM if they remember immediately I would let them keep it. If you've gotten to your draw step I would say that is too late.

Very understandable. Thanks!

No problem! It's hard to tell if I'm being too technical sometime.

If I sac a Prized Amalgam to Victimize, does it come back from seeing the other creatures return to the battlefield?

Yep. The steps on the spell are done one by one, in order. Amalgam hits the bin before your dudes come back, so it sees them.

And with that I'm going to bed. See you all in about 10.5 hours.

complain to WOTC.
laws of the country(not all the countries) might protect shop owners from their stupid behaviour, but the company *should* take discrimination based on political affiliation seriously and stop affiliating with them.

Those SJW shills...I hardly believe it

theymost likely are not going to respond to a single complaint, but if multiple customers report similar incidents WOTC is supposed to investigate and do something.
if they don't do it then you get to complain on le reddit and if you menage to stay on the top page for enough time you might get a response from WOTC.

if even that fails i suggest throwing a molotov into the shop, but you should first be checking if the law of the state allows customer discrimination based on clothing of certain political affiliation.I don't think it would be legal in my country for example.
Additionally you can spread the word into your town that the shop does this kind of discrimination and try to make as many trumptards MtG player change LGS

How does rebound work with escalate or wear // tear combination cards?

If you cast a card from exile "without paying its mana cost," you can't pay any alternative costs. You may caster either side of a split card. On the other hand fuse only applies to cards in your hand so you can't fuse it.

If I have a "whenever an artifact enter the battlefield do X" and cast a panharmonicon, will I get two triggers or only one?

Kicker Rite of replication on a craterhoof behemoth, does it work the way I think it does and how big do the fuckers get I assume it's massive

Hey there guy, it's voodoo shuffle user again. So the guy who was upset about me putting 7 from the bottom to the top basically bitched enough to where the judge didn't want to deal with it and just let him have his way because I "could potentially cheat" which is a terrible justification at best. I am upset by this.

What if I cast Expedite on an illegal target or a non-existant one, do I still draw a card?

Does Kari Zev's Expertise allow me to cast Fling for free paying the additional cost using the stolen creature?

yes it does, assuming craterhoof is the only thing on your board, 5 of each of your now 6 craterhoofs would give all other creatures +6/+6 and trample for a grand total of +30/+30 and quintrample

you need a legal target to cast the spell in the first place.

and yes on the combo

Don't see any other MTG threads up, so I'll ask here: is magic online worth it? Nobody plays the game where I live.

>Rite of replication
>expedite
if your target becomes invalid after casting it, then yeah man draw a card.

> The rest
Effect is at this point gain control of creature, then you may go ahead and fling it... so yeah

sweet thought so, its my combo of choice to win in momir vig and i've never actually done the math on them my friends just scoop when I cast it

I have one creature with one aura attached to it, I cast sage's reverie, do I draw one card or two cards?

Way too expensive. There are free alternatives like xmage

From gatherer:
Count the number of Auras you control attached to creatures as the enters-the-battlefield ability resolves to determine how many cards to draw. This will include Sage’s Reverie as long as it’s still on the battlefield at that time.

Ggrks

Counter a fireball being cast for 16 with a Plasm capture, do I get 17 mana or 1?

While on the stack, X spells do have the chosen value so you'd get 17 mana (everywhere else the cmc of the spell would have been 1)

How exactly does Infinite Mana work? Is it treated as being just a really really really big number, or is it treated as being well and truly infinite?
Cause, if the latter, then there's a bunch of FUN math that I need to try out.

You can never go actually infinite in actual Magic in terms of mana and life. You have to declare a real number.

I usually just say an obscenely high number to the point where it doesnt really matter anymore

2

So, I just want a clarification on spell countering, copying and redirecting.

So, I play Lava Spike on my opponent. He tries to cast Counterspell. Can I use Shunt to force his Counterspell to counter my Shunt instead of the Lava Spike? Or does that not work because Shunt would have already resolved by then? Can I use Shunt to make his Counterspell counter itself?

Second, similar scenario, I'm trying to cast Spark Elemental, and my opponent is trying to use Counterspell on it. I have Reverberate in my hand. Can I use Reverberate to copy his Counterspell and use the copy to counter his Counterspell?

And yes, my playgroup does a lot of Burn Deck vs Counter-Fucking-Everything deck.

unless somebody has aetherize or aether spouts scooping is generally the correct choice to a craterhoof play.

>then yeah man draw a card

if your target is illegal after casting it you won't draw a card because the spell will fizzle and get countered by game rules.

>then you may go ahead and fling it

this is right though. you do the effects of the card in order, so you gain control of the creature before you cast the spell for 2 or less.

It can't counter itself but it can be redirected to your shunt.

You can also reverberate his counter spell to force your spark elemental to resolve.

Two. I like to think about it like this - Panharmonicon has to be on the field for your ability to trigger, so it can trigger twice.

Oh yeah, your dudes hit bane level of big guy. Each trigger counts all the other hoofs.

I don't know the rest of your story, but there's nothing wrong with a voodoo cut. Just don't be too smug while doing it, anything you do that's upsetting other players can be a problem. I can't say much more without knowing the exact details.

No dice. You can't cast expedite without a legal target. If your target becomes illegal, or leaves the battlefield, expedite fizzles and you get nothing.
Fling won't go onto the stack till Expertise resolves, so yes you can fling your opponent's dude at them.

I enjoy it. I keep it pretty budget, I've probably only put about $150 in and I've got three pauper decks, three 1v1 commander decks and a whole hell of a lot of drafts. I think the drafts are the biggest draw. I can't say if it's worth it for expensive formats.

pretty much lmao,
Follow up to this do commanders work the same way? I mana drain Meren and get 4 mana then if I plasm capture the next cast i get 6?

If pic related is put into the gy by say faithless looting, or griselbrand, do I shuffle it back then draw? Or draw then shuffle back?

How would Griselbrand cause it to go to the graveyard?
In the case of FL, you draw first.

So sorry, I just woke up and my brain wasn't working too well. I meant cathartic reunion
Thank tho

Only if all things that say "target" are illegal. Otherwise just the legal parts are resolved.

Worldpsine Wurm's ability is a triggered ability that will go on the stack when it hits the graveyard. If you discarded it as a part of a card's effect, like say Faithless Looting, the Wurm's ability will go on the stack but you need to finish resolving Looting before anything else happens.

Why are you pretending this happened m8.

The spells CMC is the same, you just had to pay an additional cost. Additional costs do not change CMC, so you would get 4 mana no matter what.

I believe you still draw first for CR. It's a little tricky since it's two different clauses.

Outside of silver border, you can't make infinite mana. You have to stop your loop eventually to continue the game. You can shortcut it and say "I'll do this ten billion times and get ten billion mana", but infinitys are no dice.

First scenario: spells can never target themselves, but you can redirect the counterspell to your shunt. When counterspell tries to resolve, it has no target and fizzles.
Second scenario: the counterspell is still on the stack, so yes, you can copy it and counter it.

aw thats boring thought i might change with the stack like X spells

Worldspine has a triggered ability so we gotta wait till looting has resolved to shuffle. With Cathartic Reunion though, the discard is a cost - you pay the cost, CR goes on the stack, Wurm triggers and shuffles, then the spell resolves and you draw.

No. Commander tax adds to the mana cost you end up paying, but nothing except values of X can alter the converted mana cost.

Can spells cast by goblin dark dwellers be conspired by a wort the raidmother?

Don't have any questions about rules, but as the unofficial rules lawyer of my group, I just want to ask a few questions about your experiences as a judge.

What rules interactions do people mess up most often?

Do you ever get angry when people mess up rules interactions? If so, which ones?

What do you think is the most unintuitive rules interaction? (Besides "bands with others")

Sorry, one more: What is your opinion on regenerate, and WotC's decision to retire it as a vanilla keyword? Personally, I'm with WotC that it's too complex and unintuitive, but at the same time, I feel like indestructible doesn't feel like the perfect replacement.

whats the ruling on modular monstrosity?
when it comes to keywords that are followed by a number, like annihilator or poisonous? is it automatically 1? can i name any number as long as it was printed on a card? or can i just not name them at all?

Yes you can.

Just wait till they are finished with the spoilers. If you want the universal ruling, then it's whatever goes. Silver bordered cards isn't real magic cards.

does this mean you can't prohibit a fireball x=20?

Yes.

Yes. Dank Dwellers let you cast spells without paying their mana cost, but you can still pay additional costs, like Conspire.

I haven't been certified for all that long (only about three months) and I'm not really going to be getting involved with FNM level events until I move in about a month as my store closed down just before i got certified. So I don't have a hell of a lot of experience from observing.

But from playing I can tell you that I see a lot of missed triggers. In casual games people usually just let them put them on the stack later. During the HOU pre-release I had three separate people missing their Ammit Eternal triggers throughout the day. Then there are stack interactions, one of my roommates asked me today if his Ajani's Pridemate had lifelink, would it survive combat with another 2/2 (no). While they're not rules things, people often don't read cards properly and sometimes think of a line then beeline for it, forgetting about other important things.

I don't get angry very much, and I don't think I've ever gotten angry at cardboard. It can get kind of annoying answering the same question over and over, but that usually happens around the release of a new set ("is colourless a colour"), so it's understandable.

Woah, slow down on the banding hate, banding isn't that bad. And I'm not just saying that because I have a Soraya the Falconer EDH deck. I can't think of anything super unintuitive at the moment, I'll get back to you. Trinisphere's kinda weird, until you just give in and realize that nothing can escape the Trinisphere, and cards like Possibility Storm often confuse everybody till they get used to them.

As for regenerate, I agree. It has a lot of rules baggage for an ability that's trying to accomplish something so simple. Indestructible is too powerful to be thrown around as often as regenerate was.

If you're the ruleman of your group, may I recommend checking our JAR? It's a good document for go-to rules guys.

According to the FAQ you have to choose a number that's been printed. So Annihilator 6 is good to go, but Annihilator 500 is a no show. Check out the page on Keyword abilities on the mtg gamepedia for a full list of them.

That's correct. It has a CMC of 21. Keep in mind this only applies to X spells.

Hot damn I just realized you can give it Herald of Leshrac's cumulative upkeep cost. Drafting this set is gonna be rad.

>Jotun Grunt
Or Put 2/4/6 cards on bottom (could be relevant to stop Unhinged-era Gotcha! cards)
>Karplussan Minotaur
Or Flipping Coins (Krark's Thumb combo?)

Casting Saheeli's Artistry targeting your Reckless Fireweaver and your Panharmonicon:
Do both tokens ETB at the same time and influence each other or after one another in the order seen on the card?

Ok not on topic but I would want your opinion on this.
I play delverdeck against merfolk.
I have a delver unflipped, proceed to my upkeep, look at the card (a land), forget to draw it, and play a land right away.
My dick opponent notices, and instead of letting me draw my card yells JUDGE
The judge comes and listen to my opponent, to a totally baffled me and gives me a fucking warning

if thats the case is annihilator 6 considered a different keyword to annihilator 4? can i give it multiple instances of annihilator as long as its a different number thats been printed?

No, they etb in order listed on the card.

If it's a competitive event/tournament, then it's entirely your fault.

In the order listed on the card. If you control both of the original targets you'll still get a bunch of triggers though.

Since he gave you a warning I assume it was comp REL. I believe (again, only L1) that's a Game Rule Violation, which is a Warning in comp REL.
I recommend watching PVDDR's video on "should I call a judge". It's pretty enlightening about the philosophy of judge calls.

No dice. You've already chosen annihilator this day. Check the Unstable FAQ for more info.

I have Xenagod in play with current devotion = 5. I cast and resolve Ulasht, the Hate Seed. Does Ulasht get 2 more +1/+1 counters for Xenagod being a creature, or are the counters, counted before Xenagod would become a creature?

Nope. Ulasht has a replacement effect, like Clones, so won't count things that enter at the same time as him or aren't creatures as he's entering, like gods.

If I supernatural stamina my Relentless dead, will I'll be able to pay the X cost to bring back another zombie right?

Will it allow me to bring back prized amalgam "at the beginning of the next end step" too even if I haven't used the [X] cost ability or not?

Also if Relentless dead dies (without supernatural stamina this time) can I pay [4] to bring back gravedigger, and use the gravedigger's ability to bring back the relentless dead to my hand?

>Q1
Yes, assuming your relentless dead dies from something. Supernatural Stamina won't kill it. Relentless Dead doesn't care where it is when it's ability resolves, as long as it's died it'll work.

>Q2
Yes, if you use Stamina on your Relentless Dead and it dies, it then reenters the battlefield from the graveyard, which is all Amalgam cares about.

>Q3
You sure can. Relentless Dead has to hit the graveyard to trigger, and unless something else takes it out, it'll be in there for Gravedigger to find.

tl:dr - Yes to all.

Thanks! Wasn't sure if the supernatural stamina worked once the monster hit the graveyard or if it just replaced the "goes to the graveyard" with "go back to the battlefield".

It would use the word 'instead' if it was a replacement effect. Look at the wording for Darksteel Colossus vs Emrakul for comparison

Yep! "dies" is a magic term that means "goes from the battlefield to the graveyard".

More X spells questions, does electromancer effects automatically add 1 to any x spell? would firball x 16 give me 17 damage with pic on the field?

Yes.

Kind of. When you're casting a spell with X in its cost, you choose a value for X pretty early on. You can choose any number you want; if you end up not being able to pay for it you rewind the spell-casting process and can try again (and may get a minor penalty in a competitive tournament). When you go to determine costs, you sub the value you chose for X in for any X symbols in the cost, apply any cost increasers (like Sphere of Resistance), apply any cost reducers (like Electromancer), then apply Trinisphere. Now you know how much mana you have to pay for your spell.

So I cant pay {R} and get 1 damage I have to pay at least 1?

You can.
You announce you're going to cast the Fireball at X=1
The total of the spell's mana cost is 1R
Electromancer then decreased the mana cost by 1
Then you pay R

When Lone Rider flips into It that Rides as One (or for any of the flip cards that flip into Eldrazi) does it become colorless? This came up playing EDH the other day and we were pretty 50/50 on the ruling.

yes they become colorless

If my opponent controls a rest in peace and I w chant myself using a wheel of sun and moon, what happens? What if wheel is out first? Does it matter, or is it APNAP resolved?

When you cast Fireball, you announce a value for X (for example, one). Then when you go to determine costs, you sub in the chosen value for X, so you get a cost of 1R. Then you add any cost increases (none here), apply any cost reductions (-1 from Electromancer), then apply Trinisphere (not present, so doesn't matter). You end up with a Fireball that costs R and has X=1.