THE BEST ROLE PLAYING SYSTEM???

What system you rather use?

Elaborate

new combat system too?

Sure, but being able to gank really powerful enemies just because there are more PCs isn't. Or being able to 1v1 a giant on a horse as long as you have enough throwing weapons

Also this WFRP 2e's a fun game with some great fluff but as a system it's just okay.

Pathfinder>>>>all

...

tru

Not much to elaborate. The powerlevel and structure are similar enough to just pop out one ruleset and replace it with another. Use Renaissance if you just want to play, or Mythras for the extra oomph.
The careers will have to go, though. And you'll probably be stuck in the lower end of heroics.

>Says pathfinder is not the best >can't say a system that is better

Yep.

Mythras has careers, just not a structured level of power to the career it just determines your starting skill values just like culture.

It's not highly lethal. I am not sure where WFRP combat gained a reputation as being particularly lethal at all.

WFRP fighting is rough-and-tumble but there are many safeguards against your death that you can employ. There are two different saves, dodge and parry, that can outright cancel a hit on you.
If you are hit, your armour and inherent toughness will reduce the damage, sometimes down to nothing.
Even if you are hit enough to be on zero wounds, you still need to be hurt some more before you're threatened with death.
When you are critically hit, outright death is far from guaranteed. Mild to severe injuries are also possible (and make for good roleplaying fun in my experience).
When you are killed, if you have any fate points then your death is cancelled and replaced with surviving by the skin of your teeth, often with some terrible cost or inconvenience.

WFRP combat is great fun and quite savage but it is not some kind of character grinder. Especially not compared to pre-2000 D&D where a hit was a hit, damage was damage and zero HP was death.

YES

Fucking 5e is better than pathfinder. Think about that

Pathfinder is on the same level as FATAL

Second best.

Best system is *coughZweihandercough

I wish Zweihander was more popular. It's like WFRP 2e but better.

I wouldn't mind if they made up a setting for it though. Nothing too deep is needed, just something I can use of the fly. Making my own Not!Europe is time consuming.

Fuck off Daniel

I just use it in place of WFRP 2e, keeping all the fluff. Warhammer RPG but with Zweihander as the system.

Is this really better than Myhtras? Can you convince me?

Yeah, but Warhammer's careers are half the fun.

I've never played Mythras. But Zweihander has a character creation very similar to WHFRPG 2, but with better rules. It's monsters feel like folktales, & it has a feeling of grimdark fantasy without feeling like it's hopeless.

>WFRP combat is great fun
>doing the standard attack over and over
>great fun

Hi there Jeff. See I can pull names out of my ass too.

If you want a high lethality combat system that actually has substance to it, look up Song of Swords.

Daniel sounds like a cool guy

Zweihander is just a better version of WFRP

One question regarding warhammer 2e, are ratcatchers really OP or is that a meme?

It's a meme. Most GMs don't even rule the small dog as a combatant.

They were nerfed. You should check them out in 1e. Massively OP.

>spears are better than hand weapons in every conceivable way
>two-handed weapons are worse than having a shield or even a second weapon because it provides free parries
>guns are irredeemable trash
>skills are worthless and the rules for them are vague and nonexistent
Good game op.

It not that they are powerful in the traditional sense. They are versatile & are more "in the know" about some stuff like skaven & have a better chance of not getting disease which can really fuck you up. Plus you have a small but vicious dog. Which has game stats. Some GM's are assholes & won't let you use it sometimes, but they are wrong.

What's combat like?

The small dog has no way to defend itself, it'll die in the first combat.

In 3e they were so powerful they needed their own splatbook.

It has teeth & fur & legs to dodge. Do you not think an English pit bull terrier can't defend itself? Micheal Vick begs to differ

You literally use the stats for a dog in the book user

Dodging is a skill that it does not have.

No.

Punchy. You don't have HP, you have a condition bar that goes from being fine to having light scratches to being truly fucked up. Armor reduces damage & weapons are a bunch of traits much like WHFRPG but it has more options than just attacking. You get a few Action Points that are used to dodge/parry/attack/maneuver, spend them wisely or you'll not have enough to protect youself.

is 3rd edition good?

can you use Zweihander for fantasy? or is it just for historical.

The best roleplay involves ropes and whips.

I mean MYFAROG is the best one.

It's default is fantasy. It has clerics & wizards & monsters

3rd Edition is cancer

I use BGC to run a high fantasy game where the mech rules are used to symbolise a player's divine mode. Does that count?

This right here.

WFRP1e and 2e have amazing fluff and great ideas in careers and skills, but the execution of skills and combat overall are pretty awful.

>wfrp has awful combat
>zweihander has awful combat
You'd think an RPG based around a wargame would have a good combat system.

You clearly never played he wargame!

Close, but really you need to play a modified updated modern 2e system.

Like Zweihander.

>I wouldn't mind if they made up a setting for it though. Nothing too deep is needed, just something I can use of the fly. Making my own Not!Europe is time consuming.

I just invented a Warhammeresque city, a few hours of work, just throw in the normal European medieval tropes, and the players are adventuring there for at least the first few months.

There's enough fluff in the book to do the rest.

They are releasing a setting called Kahabro next year.

>fists do as much damage as a basic sword
>diverse weapons unlike WFRP but like WFRP some are objectively better
>a composite or longbow for less than 10gc are objectively superior in every way to an 82gc musket
>nothing even has health, just an intentionally vague RAW damage threshold

Love the art and the team is full of great guys, but the item and weapon balancing, and combat are all just as fucked, if not moreso, than WFRP 2e.

>fists do as much damage as a basic sword

I dislike that but nothing a houserule can't fix.

>diverse weapons unlike WFRP but like WFRP some are objectively better

But some weapons are objectively better than others.

>a composite or longbow for less than 10gc are objectively superior in every way to an 82gc musket

Thematically its fluff is set at the time of the early gunpowder revolution. Guns are expensive and hard to make.

However, they are objectively SUPERIOR to non guns. They cannot be dodged or parried, unlike every other ranged weapon and they can be used in melee unlike your composite bow.

Also the musket is 67gc and the second most expensive gun.

>nothing even has health, just an intentionally vague RAW damage threshold

Yes its a better system. Do you want D&D, where mechanically 1hp is the same as 200hp ability wise.

You have levels of injured up to Slain! instead. You know exactly how seriously wounded you are. It also combos perfectly with the peril system which adds mechanical penalties to various injuries/life threatening situations.

>They cannot be dodged or parried
This is such a minor fucking thing though compared to its 4 AP reload and 0 mechanical bonus over bows aside from enemies not being able to dodge them. And using them in melee? Sure, if you have a blunderbuss or pistol. That doesn't benefit a musket at all.

>That doesn't benefit a musket at all.

RAW there's no difference. It has the Gunpowder quality.

I mean that it doesn't benefit it in play. If you're toting a musket you're probably a distance shooter, not a melee frontliner, so being able to use it in melee is pointless.

Do you know what happens to archers in melee user?

Its guaranteed damage user. That's pretty important

can someone provide a link for the best/current zweihander rulebook? I want to flip around it.

Are the rules light? I am much more concerned with the actual role playing aspect and getting into character. this versus the mechanics.

If you have a high enough skill it doesn't even matter. At the very least they should've given guns Vicious or something, but they didn't, so hitting someone with a club is the same as shooting them in the face, and I get where they're going. An injury is an injury, and a bow will kill a human just like a gun, but in a world with fucking orcs and giants and dragons, there's a world of difference between the damage a metal-tipped arrow and a .78 calibre ball of lead will do to them, and Zweihander doesn't represent this at all. You have no motivation to seek out any different weapons once you get one of a certain quality, and you have no reason to aspire to anything ranged-wise except at most a longbow.

And yes, weapons in other systems are often unbalanced and yes some weapons are realistically better than others, yet to fix that they've just made everything the same based on an incredibly abstract system that falls apart once you throw in non-human enemies, and they've still fucked up the weapon balance anyway.

My problems are:
1 - d00 and skill system here mean that anything you attempt that lies outside of your core skills is basically impossible, and your starting skills a few and far between and even trained skills aste shit at low levels. So everyone is a barely functioning one trick pony and if your team composition is not ideal, you are always stuck.

2 - Compound issue n1 with combat mechanics of roll to hit, see if parry/dodge, reduce damage by armor, it means that most of the time you swing to miss, and it’s just a fucking slog.

Admittedly I do t have much experience with the system, but it’s kinda bugging me already.

Pic related.

The lethality comes from the fact, that many attacks are poisoned or infected, and many critical hits result in infection, which is hard to cure in grimdark late medieval times, or in loss of fingers/limbs or mental disorders which reduce your stats severely.

You don't die immiedately, you just become a sick, deranged, amputee wreck.

Quick!! I'm a new DM (although I have played D&D for 3 years) and have a new group of players. I don't want to lead them down the path of despair laid out for us by the wizards of the coast. How do I run WARHAMMER FANTASY ROLEPLAY!?

You go and get the free version of the Zweihander and the rules summary. Once you ease your group into it then you get the full version.

grimandperilous.com/play-aids/

Alternatively, you could play Myhtras and live a successful, fulfilling life.

Aye, that's a problem for folk in those times. It's hardly combat lethality, though, as was the topic of , and associated posts.

Also, not that many attacks are infectious iirc. There's a few. I can't remember any infection results on the critical hit charts either, those tend to be very direct. Maybe you're adding extra infecting that isn't part and parcel of the rules, and that's alright, but my thoughts on combat lethality can't account for that.

Even with that, life expectancy of newly-rolled adventuring sorts under WFRP rules is still longer than those under pre-millenial D&D, even assuming all concerned have a gung-ho approach to battle.

Fuck off shil and help me do the thing I'm trying to do. We all know D&D is trash, let the enemy of your enemy be your friend, I need help!

Disregard folk in here moaning about the mechanics. I really love them and urge you to give them a go.

My advice is thus: encourage your players to attept unconventional fighting techniques, to fight dirty, and basically do anything they can to win. Gang up on the enemy every chance you get.

Also, what makes fighting in WFRP kinda dangerous is how scarce healing is. Try not to have adventures with too many time-sensitive elements. Always allow and encourage your players to try to avoid combat - always! There is no experience reward for combat after all. They'll be drawn into deadly conflict more than enough by way of their own mores and folly without having to be involved into too many compulsory battles. There IS going to be fighting aplenty have no fear.

Another jot of advice regarding fighting is to eventually use sudden death rules regarding fighting is to eventually start using the sudden death critical hit rules against non-memorable foes (goblins, etc.) but not to do it right away. Your players will have a completely different expectation of what a 'critical hit' is coming from D&D. Use the full rules for all foes at first to let the concept bake into their noggins. Encourage bloody descriptions from them. Later, scale back to sudden death and reserve that action to more memorable foes.

I already helped you on your way. I personally think Zweihander is a great successor to WFRP in many ways. You should really check it.

Regarding not-fighting. Remember to try and cleave to the atmosphere of the old world. Every human the players meet in imperial lands ought to be a rough lot. One way is to give everyone they meet at least one repulsive feature. Bad teeth. Gnarly scar. Woeful odour. When they encounter someone beautiful they should be suspicious of it, at least a little. Even if its an elf.
In fact, especially if its an elf. The non-human races aren't well liked by Empire folk, save maybe dwarfs, and even then they'll be wary.
The players, no matter who or what they are, should be treated as a disreputable lot; which they are. Adventuring is a disdainful profession that brings all sorts of trouble to beleaguered settlements everywhere. Bunch of wandering busybodies flashing money about, not contributing to the community, and generally carting off treasure that rightly belongs to the folk of the land. Who cares if they kill a few beastmen? Our lads would have done that anyway ere they came within spitting distance of the village wall. Tell you what, fancy boy, you take you polished sword and you nice codpiece and march yourself back out the east gate where you came. Them plonkers from Hemsbirch or Untergriff might not mind you drinking all their grog and woo'in all their women but round here that'll get your mug re-arranged at least. Got it?

Thank you so much for the help!

Your houserules don't matter.

Cubicle 7 is releasing WFRP 4e, which looks to be the ACTUAL successor of WFRP 2e. This is one of the few RPG releases that I'm incredibly excited about.

I'm hoping they streamline the mechanics a fair bit. d100 works well as a skill-based system, not one with ability scores. SB/TB in 2e were a bit...not good.

Zweihänder beat them at the Warhammer game almost a year ago. A ton of people are playing it now (they reported sales numbers in 21k physical books sold to-date).

Not only that, C7 is severely late to the party and won't be delivering WFRP 4 until next summer: grimandperilous.com/warhammer-fantasy-roleplay-4th-edition-news-emerges-from-pax-unplugged/

My guess is that Zweihander scared them this year, and went back to the drawing board once they took at the gander of material Zweihander offered with respect to the 'quick start' rules C7 had planned in 2017.

Agreed. Jonathan Hicks of Fighting Fantasy fame even agrees with this notion: farsightblogger.blogspot.com/2017/11/rpg-review-zweihander-grim-perilous-rpg.html

Love or hate Zweihänder, WFRP4 will have it beat because of one fatal flaw: it's a 700-page, poorly edited heartbreaker. if C7 manages to put out a consise and focused Warhammer (and reins in the retardation of GW) they'll probably break even.

WFRP 2e descends into Swift Attack spam by second Career. That's where the game loses me, and why I like Zweihander's approach with action points and perilous stunts better.

GURPS

>poorly edited
Without a doubt, but the guys said they're going to address this in their next print run. That being said 700 pages is a feature, not a bug. It has a PHB, GM guide and Bestiary all baked into one book. It's massive (i have the POD from DTrpg and the Kickstarter version), and could do with being split in half honestly.

I have plenty of games that manage to pack the equivalent of a PHB, DMG and MM + setting into significantly less than 700 pages.

>into significantly less than 700 pages
But Zweihander has over 120 classes and 150 monsters and a literal fuck tonne of options.Oh and every class and monster is illustrated (i counted 455 illustrations in the book).

its a feature of the work, and apologetically so. it is a bit overwritten, but i do like that i can read it in low light conditions due to the font size.

Sure. And I did get it for free, so who am I to complain?

I have hard time naming a system that's NOT better short of FATAL-tier memes, and even those are just barely worse.

No, but it's good for certain types of campaigns. Gritty ones, mostly.

OSR proves that you don't need many attack options.

>What combat system you guys rather use?
If I want more medieval realism, Harnmaster. If I want more High Fantasy, Probably MERP with some Rolemaster mixed in. If I want narrative, probably TOR.

Finally, if I want SIMPLE hack and slash, level and loot campaigns, D&D 5E.

THIS THIS THIS

I accept everything you said except 5E fuck 5E

Setting? Maybe. Mechanics? Lord no.

This meme is old, friend.

A good 50% of this thread is Zweihanderposting. Daniel, please go away, you transparent hack.

Eat a bag of dicks. Not Daniel. Despite your lamentations, Zweihander is fucking platinum. Get over it: drivethrurpg.com/metal.php

None of that money is going to make people like you, Daniel.