/STG/ - Star Trek General

Was the Sword of Kahless class not enough?

But then again, I've heard it suggested that that particular class of ship was not well received by the High Council, who deemed them too expensive, which is perhaps why only two were said to have been built.

The concept of an extremely expensive ship in the Klingon military surprises me given I've always thought their ships were cheap, from fighters to dreadnoughts.

I mean, what's really going into a Klingon ship to make it expensive anyway?

>Virgh'cha vs Chad'var

...

>I mean, what's really going into a Klingon ship to make it expensive anyway?
Bottles of 2309

>Was the Sword of Kahless class not enough?
Since the Sword of Kahless wasn't built until the 2370s, no, it's not enough. The L-24 in pic related is probably the best designed ship in the Klink fleet in the 23rd Century.

>2370s

Not the ship.

There is a class of ship termed the "Sword of Kahless" that were built in the 2290s era.

Their staggering cost is one reason why they weren't built in abundance.

Please provide pic as proof. I'm unfamiliar with this ship class and would like to be educated about it.

Fine, it didn't exist when the FASA book was printed in 1985.

memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/QeylIS_BetleH_class

Apparently it's a ship with the fire power to break starbase shields if used correctly.

Looks something like this image apparently.

To be fair, it's from the Klingon Academy game, so it might not even exist in the continuity of those books.

Ah, Klingon Academy, that'd be why I don't know it, never played that one.

I thought about playing it or trying to find a way to get it running.

STO got me interested in a lot of the older Startrek games.

Encounters was the only one I ever really played when I was younger.

Had some really nice music.

Unfortunately, the vs waves mode has some bugs, the prime one being you could go on for so long, the game starts malfunctioning with ships you can't target or hit with weapons.

I played the Elite Force and Armada games as a kid. They were pretty sweet honestly. 8472 as a faction in Armada 2 was crazy fun to play, the standard bioship was really good. The modding scene was surprisingly solid and had a lot going on, giving me my first taste of modding games. Pretty great times, I wish I could go back to them, but the magic is kinda gone now that I'm older.

Armada and Armada II are on my "to play" list.

I heard their a trip as far as the story line goes and has some relatively solid RTS mechanics.

I also heard it has some wonky things in it.

Like the Klingons and Romulans both apparently have ships that intentionally blow up and cause sub space tears, despite sub space weaponry apparently being outlawed.

I heard they also venture into Fludic Space to confront Species 8742, setting the trend that established that Species 8742 was not done with the Galaxy as far as video game continuities go.

Yeah, the plots are pretty wonky, I wouldn't think too hard about them.

The Klinks and Roms do both have subspace explosion ships in Armada 2 (maybe Armada 1, it's been a seriously long time since I played it and I always focused on A2 anyway). They're the superweapon ships that each faction gets (the Cardies get that missile ship, the Feds get... a time slow facility, 8472 gets a planet cracker ship like that one episode, and the Borg get the fusion cubes). The gameplay was pretty solid though, you should have a good time with it.

As for Fluidic Space, yeah, that happens in A2 (A1 didn't have 8472). It takes place after the Dominion War but before Voyager shows up (I think it comes back during the game), so 8472 attacks somewhere in that time period in the game continuity apparently.

I remember this thing. I always wanted to go back and finish Klingon Academy but I've lost my box and discs since then. Did it have multiple CDs? It's been a long time.

Yes it had more than one CD I believe.

I think you can find it for download online however.

Curious, but how large was the Fesarius?

I saw it in Shattered Universe then took a look at it in TOS.

The thing looks like it's almost planetoid sized and easily puts a Borg Cube to shame.

Mind-boggingly big. Spock guesses it was a mile in diameter, but given the scale compared to the Enterprise, it has to be ridiculously larger than that. We know basically nothing about the First Federation though, beyond that they exist, so anything about the Fesarius is cold hard speculation.

From last thread:
>For instance, didn't they infiltrate the Tal Shiar
If you mean the DS9 episode, Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges (sic? I don't know Latin), then sort of.

Technically, they didn't infiltrate the Tal'Shiar, he was a mole though (and from the way it was portrayed, it seemed like he was leaking information to the federation via section 31, for his benefit, the federation benefitting as well was just a side-effect as far as Koval was concerned-- at least, that was the way it came off to me. Excellent episode though, nearly as good as
Treachery, Faith and the Great River (great character exposition for the "defective" Weyoun clone, very revealing into Vorta psychologically), or the even better episode, In the Pale Moonlight.

In general, I like episodes which show how strong the federation ideals are, but portrays the federation, and its members, idealistic and admirable people, yet still with some flaws, because there will never be a society, no matter how advanced, in which individuality and perfection can co-exist.

>and ,before that, turn a blind eye to the Tal-Shiarr and Obsidian Order sneak attack on the Founder's homeworld?
Essentially, yes, they did. That was a 2-part episode for DS9, starting with "Improbable Cause".

Another awesome episode, mainly because of Garak. Garak, hands down, was the best DS9 character. To be fair, given the federations encounters with the dominion to that point, I kinda understand why they basically say "fuck it, if the Tal'shiar/Obsidian Order wanna try to take em out, let em", despite the fact that the federation would normally in principle find such an act (which is essentially genocide) to be morally abhorrent, and attempt to stop it.

>Though to be fair, shield technology seems like it offensive techology has far outranged defensive technology.
If you're referring to federation shields, one of the major tactical advantages the dominion has in early combat encounters with the UFP vessels, is that for some reason, federation shields are ineffective (ie. do basically nothing) against dominion weapons.

This changes when Dukat and Weyoun spearhead an offensive against DS9 later in the series, after Sisko mines the wormhole.

On a digression, I know we all have our preferences and are looking for different things in Star Trek, but DS9 is probably my favorite series. I love
a) The portrayal of the federation as admirable, idealistic and well-meaning, but still flawed (whereas in TNG for example, they're pretty much the mary sue faction)
b) Space politics, and they're portrayed in a (semi) realistic manner
c) Garak. Easily best character.

Everything in TOS seems kind of massive.

I took at look at the Space Amoeba and if what I'm seeing is correct, it's also incredibly massive.

I'm curious though, could one, in theory, hijack the space amoeba and use it for their own ends?

>I kinda understand why they basically say "fuck it, if the Tal'shiar/Obsidian Order wanna try to take em out, let em",

On the other hand, what the fuck could they have done? Filed a formal protest with the respective agency's governments for all it's worth aka nothing?

True. I guess they could have sent a vessel through the wormhole, and made contact with a dominion vessel to warn them, though depending on the time it takes for the federation to find a dominion vessel, and depending on how fast communications are compared to whatever warp speed the Tal'Shiar/Obsidian Order fleet is, it may be too late.

On that note, exactly how fast is Federation communications in general? I know they aren't instantaneous, and I'd assume they're faster than your average warp speed (say, warp 5), but I don't know any more than that.

Communications goes at the speed of plot unfortunately.

Oh. Fair enough.

I'd say I wish Star Trek would use internally consistent rules, but now with STD (aptly named) and JJ-Trek movies, its only going to go the other way.

>I wish Star Trek would use internally consistent rules
I agree and beta canon does its best but Star Trek has never been written by a team that was particularly consistent with this sort of thing. Best to just let that impulse go, you'll never be happy with Trek's lack of clear consistency.

Anyone think that opening of the Klingon mission in STO where the Galaxy class comes out of no where and starts firing torpedoes is kind of funny?

Like 7 disks, my man. GoG has a copy I think, I've been trying to get a clean torrent of it off and on for the last 5 ish years. I suppose if I really wanted to i could buy it.

Nope. They've got Starfleet Academy but not Klingon. Steam doesn't have it either.

I still find it hard to believe the Orions were once interstellar contemporaries of the First Federation.

I find it even harder to believe there was once a grand Orion space faring civilization.

They're kind of dumpy and meager in the shows and books most of the time, to the point it just seems like they're scraping by.

What happened exactly?

I remember now, they always got stuck in the cardboard slots.

I found most of my FF7 PC disks in one of those and my copy of Earthsiege 2. I keep thinking if I dig deeper I'll find them somewhere.

Later in the TNG era they had advanced enough shields to hug the form of the ships rather than just a bubble that protects mostly empty space.

But also

Well, bugger. Guess I'll give it another try, /stg/ needs more trek games.

>Later in the TNG era they had advanced enough shields to hug the form of the ships rather than just a bubble that protects mostly empty space.
In STVI the shields were hugging the hull of the "A" while in generations "D" still had Bubble.

>But also
Yep.

Agreed.

Also, have any Star Trek games reached high acclaim?

So I found an iso of disk one, and compatibility patches. I am uploading it now. One minor issue is that it's apparently in german, with kraut voice actors. Runs like a charm though.

Fair enough.

I'd be happy if I just got to see more space politics akin to what was shown late in DS9.

Its a shame thats not going to happen with STD, which I refused to initially watch on principle... and when I finally started getting curious, and asked about it, I heard it was exactly as bad as I presumed it to be.

The whole situation pisses me off. I'm a pretty cynical person by nature, but it still annoys me to all hell, seeing the Star Trek franchise get co-opted to use its namesake as an easy way to get cheap ratings, while completely shitting on established lore, and the fans who supported it. I shouldn't get pissed, but I do.

Is there any TV series with political intrigue like that? Preferably Sci-fi, but anything will do, to be honest.

I’m inclined to believe (given the flexibility of shield dimensions) that a shield’s “standard” shape is largely dependent upon ship class and mostly preference of the Captain and Chief engineer for personal reasons.
Picard spends a lot of time extending his shields (or trying to) around smaller vessels, so he has Geordi keep it in a ovoid shape for ease of configuration for example.

I have a download link now. I forget if this is the sort of thing it's against board rules to post, and I don't know if there's a better way to get it to people.
In the meantime, I destroyed a fed listening post and its two defense shuttles, but a Miranda was in the neighborhood and started hunting me. So I blew that up, too.

That was one of my favourite ships in the game.

I remember taking down two Mirandas with a B'rel once by diving into planet's rings and flying between the larger pieces of debris until they struck them.

It's completely overpowered for it's size, yeah. That shield pen torpedo is capable of taking down anything short of a starbase, if you're fast enough.

I think it may have just been that the federation was (relatively) weak and small at the time, and as the federation grew in power, it would logically try to fight some of the Orions sources of influence (slavery, black marketeering, etc).

I haven't read any novels, but from what I understand, the Orions have been around longer than the federation (how much though, I don't know).

The question that really bugs me, is how Romulans became an interstellar power at roughly the same time Vulcans were pushing out into space. I read from one of the memory websites (too long to remember which) that the Romulans were essentially diaspora from Vulcan, pre-Surak. If this were the case, then logically they'd be far less numerous than the Vulcans, and consequently develop technology at a far lesser pace, especially seeing as I vaguely remember they'd been afflicted by a plague or two which apparently caused some of the physical discrepancies between Romulans and Vulcans.

>I’m inclined to believe (given the flexibility of shield dimensions) that a shield’s “standard” shape is largely dependent upon ship class and mostly preference of the Captain and Chief engineer for personal reasons.
I was about to write a post about how IRL it'd be standardized amongst a class of vessels, but then again, this is Star Trek.

Still, it makes sense for all vessels of a given class, to use the same size/shape, except when they need to extend them around other vessels.

You'd think it'd be able to focus the shield intensity dynamically during fights, so that if enemies were in front, shield strength would be focused there, etc, but again, theres not much point debating this since its soft Sci-fi / Star Trek.

No he's taking about the first First Federation

Following a long period of Orion piracy, colonization and interstellar disputes, Rigel VII and the Orion colonies were united in the Thakolarivaj, the "Great Orion Empire", under Nispavan I, the first Emperor Of All Space, in 200,993 BC
Decipher RPG module: Worlds
Approximately 35,000 years ago (prior to the 24th century), the Second Orion Empire was caught up in a lengthy conflict with the First Federation. Both states interfered with the progress of developing worlds
Last Unicorn RPG module: All Our Yesterdays: The Time Travel Sourcebook

Oh. Oops.

IRL the reason for Nemesis shields being what they where, was due to GCI development . Someone probably showed the animation they could do to Berman and he wanted that into the film. Nemesis had in all sense and purpose the best GCI of any of the Star Trek films, it's just the shame the movie was total load of crap otherwise.

I think they were going for a similar thing in DS9, albeit on a lesser scale. In you can see the closest Vorcha and the Negvar take hits from torpedoes. Rather than using an explosion effect, they seem to fizzle.

I'll argue that Babylon 5 has some of that, but its quite an old show at this point. If you haven't seen it, you should.

Bab5 is decent. Not perfect, by any margin, but at least some of it stands up.

Picked up a Miradorn Heavy Raider last night. My usual slowboat age of sail in space turned into Top Gun instantly. Why was I not flying pilot ships before, jesus.

As I understand the reason DS9 large scale battlescenes did not have shields effects was that the costs of animating a shield effect on all those ships would have made battlescenes so expensive that they wouldn't been able to do them at all. Computer animations where and still are somewhat time consuming and they would had to pay for the extra time needed to add and ender those effects. So I can understand why they opted to drop the shield effects all togetherr in the big fight scenes.

I know that feel, user. I got the Fleet T’varo, with pilot boff, last spring and she goes like stink. Add to that the advanced battle cloak and Romulan rep heavy plasma torpedoes and you have yourself a nightmare to deal with.

TOS was made squarely within the "big spooky space objects" era of scifi, persisting all the way through TMP, STIV, STV, and Encounter at Farpoint. After the 80s that trend cooled off a bit.

That's one thing I do miss, is not having cloak on the Miradorn. Still, it's a surprising amount of fun.

Character it's on is new, however, so it's still running mostly quest gear. I need to figure out how I want to fit it out.

Why was Picard even on the Enterprise? The ship could run itself fine without him being there at all.

That is how rank structure works, yea. If it wasn't for his plot armour he'd have been dead and replaced pretty early. Certainly after his incident with the Borg.

Picard = Archeologist
Sisko = Cook
Janeway = Stellar scientist(?)
Archer = Pilot

What was Kirk's secondary skillset/hobby? Xenosexologist?

Judo?
Chemistry? (building a bamboo cannon and black powder)

XO is in charge of making sure the ship runs smoothly. CO decides what to do with the ship.

James 'i'm a soldier noT a diplomat' Kirk?

I think Sisko and Kirk were both command track from the get go. So they were probably con or tactical officers.

I think he was a farmer in his youth. He liked horses, anyway.

He was born and raised in Iowa.

he was a history nerd, right?

Man, I want an Enterprise spoon that glows.

Prime timeline: mountaineering
Kelvin timeline: being a douche and fucking bitches
Mirror timeline: being a psycho douche and fucking bitches

>"big spooky space objects"

It'd be funny if part of the Prime Directive said to literally poke such objects till they responded.

Still, it is interesting to think about how some of that works.

Like the aforementioned amoeba, which is longer than Europe and Russia combined according to someone.

Most Pilot builds are DPS heavy. So maybe hard spec into tactical and go full glass cannon.

Is that a redesign of the bird of prey-warbird seen in Enterprise's era?

Two hundred thousand years ago?

So if that is true, what were looking at in the modern era of Startrek is the scraps, remnants and dregs of that once mighty civilization?

What crew positions would you guys feel makes for the most entertaining party in STA?

Well, the Tac officer who has it is pretty dakka-heavy as it is. I'm just wondering how best to take advantage of its specialist bridge seating - Intel I got down, it's getting Override Subsystem Safeties at the least, but it's the pilot seat I'm sketchy on. I never dealt much with it.

The rest is just the gear and rep grind. Gonna grab the Terran space set, since it's tanky as fuck, and then start snagging fleet consoles. Still, it's putting out decent damage with just the dumpy MkXII gear as it is, so the future is bright.

Waste processing engineer, transporter officer, holodeck maintenance engineer, astrogation officer and the daycare center worker.

This is set in next generation era, right?

Superman, amazon, pretzel, pile-driver.

Sisko was a ship designer before he got on the command track.

Just the selfsame T’varo under harsh lighting. There is a redesign, the Malem Class, but I’m not as keen on that.

Cardassian labor camp guards

since there isn't one in the folder, where can I find a pdf of the Core Rulebook?

Yep, same thing happened to the Gorn, that's why they where bit miffed when Federation started expanding into empty space that was once theirs, it is a pride thing you see it in IRL history with empires that where once huge but are in serious decline, but still have some of their military might left.

Modiphius are judicious in taking links down, so we operateunder the good faith rule that we share about the core rulebook and most of us buy it after.
Drop a Discord name and I'll sort you out.

i see. hmmm...how do I do that without it lingering?
does the delete function work?

Discord is just a messenger, mo chara. Download it, set up an account and then post your name on here and I can give you a link to a proper download. As to it "lingering", you an just delete it off your computer and you'll never hear from it again.

RdV

should be a number on the end of that. Should look like RdV#XXXX

If it wasn't for plot armor every human in the Federation would be dead.

Crazy circus wrestling

>Orion had a great space empire that collapsed thousands of years ago
>Gorn had a great space empire that collapsed thousands of years ago
>Bajorans had a super culturally and scientifically advanced civilization that collapsed thousands of years ago
>Tholians rules a fucking galaxy before getting kicked out if we really want to push beta canon
>Romulans claim every world they passed by two thousand years ago
>Voth are literally Earth dinosaurs that developed space travel and then did fucking nothing for 65 million years
>Not to mention all the races that claim to have been former slaves to the Iconians, the T'kon, etc, and heirs to their empires

>WE
>WUZ
>SPACE

So, I've been trying to craft a series of one-shots set in Star Trek to run w/ a few friends since I've gotten heavily into Trek over the last few months (binged TNG, currently mid S5 of DS9) and am hoping to get them at least somewhat more interested in the series.

Idea for one session was going to have the crew aboard either a Nebula-class or an Excelsior-class ship, and that they'd come across an adrift Klingon warbird and encounter a few crazed warriors who either die of their own wounds or (potentially die) attacking the party, or more specifically trying to kill a child that the away team will find on the adrift ship. Would eventually get revealed one way or another that the child is actually a coalescent organism a'la the Aquiel episode of TNG, and the session from there will basically be "The Thing" in space on a warship full of several hundred people including civilians.

First off, does this sound like a decent idea for a one-shot?

And second, what other horror movies like "The Thing" could be decently adapted into a Star Trek adventure?

Aliens, easily, the Forbidden Zone, Avatar (the movie, yes it is god damn horror movie), IT, basically you can do all horror genres even slashers when one of the crew stares way too long into empty space and goes into amok mode.

Agreed on Aliens totally making sense, never heard of the Forbidden Zone, Avatar works too and agreed on it being a horror, and IT might need some tweaking but the villian's concept could work.

If one was gonna for having crew be stir crazy, maybe it could be a freak phenomena causing transporter psychosis, resulting in at least one crew member going bonkers on the ship.