What has been worse for D&D

They lost me with ascending armor class. Fuck that new school shit.

>Tieflings were at least cool in planescape.
As someone who ran a lot of Planescape in the 1990s, it was a shock to see them included as a core race in 3rd edition. They absolutely do not fit into a setting that isn't Planescape. It would be like if WotC made thri-kreen a core race and released a bunch of adventure modules set in a typical medieval fantasy simulation where you had to rescue a thri-kreen princess of a human kingdom from an evil thri-kreen wizard and his legion of orcs and every fourth merchant was also a thri-kreen and nobody mentioned how their favorite food is elves.

Dragonborn, because you people have never stopped complaining about them despite no one even playing them.

>tiefling
>core in 3rd edition
...

>le D&D is medieval fantasy Europe meme
Never ever was D&D medieval fantasy Europe, it had mongols, it had native Americans, it had all kinds of shit since day 1

fpbp

>D&D is medieval fantasy Europe meme
Oh for fuck's sake, don't start this argument up again.

The DM is responsible for the entire setting. There's terrible, implausible ways of making a Thri-Kreen princess of a human kingdom and there are also good plausible ways of doing it.

They aren't a core race in 3rd edition. In none of the 3.PF books are tieflings core. They are all introduced in later additional books. Tieflings are core in 4e and 5e.

And they fit well within any setting that isnt just a simulation of medieval times. Like most of D&D, which is explicitly not medieval simulation, but medieval inspired with its own weird demographics and technologies that are roughly equivalent to medieval times.

After all the mixing of demonic taint into bloodlines is an old bit of storytelling tracing back forever as a means of describing birth defects. It just so happens that in D&D worlds, that demonic taint is an actual thing and causes specific inhuman alterations to children and teenagers. And before you go off and say that such children would always be killed, sometimes the love of a mother can be a rather strong and such children were raised as normally as they could be.

Laser guns, lightsabers, jetpacks, and a whole host of other anachronisms and non medieval shit too.

Tiefling tend to attract GURL GAMERS XD and mary sues.

Dragonborn are ok and make it a little harder for sorcerers to act like just because a dragon fucked their slut mom suddenly they're special.

Adding humans. That opened the door for hordes of male human fighter fags.

MM1 isn't core now?

A core race is a race within the PHB. Ya know, the book for player characters, with player options and all that. Ifs its in the MM1 it's a DM monster to be used, even if it has player character stats. This indicates it's a DM permission type race, and thus not "core".

You'd know this if you actually played D&D.

Core is PHB, DMG, MM. Always was. But of course, you're completely, utterly missing the point of what said. Not that they're a PC race, but that they exist at all in the core default.

Why are you ignoring the rest of my post to try and sophist your way to victory by trying to claim the race is core despite it not fitting the common idea of a core race? What he said was ridiculous and stupid. As iIl reiterate in my post, they make perfect sense for a medieval inspired world, as the stories of demonic taint are common, and were done so as simplistic explanations for birth defects.

Hell, fuckign Merlin is said to be the son or grandson of the Devil, and could either be a half fiend or tiefling himself.

This.

Well sex with dragon is racemixing and bestiality so i say its bad.
Tieflings\aasimar is another thing. Gods\demons technically not a race + they look alot like humans so having halfdemon\half angel id say neither good nor bad since... well you fucked some random dude from "state" higher\lower that yours. Its like different social classes irl.
Genasi are totaly other things. You cant fuck fire or water, even you had intercourse with something that something not completely sapient. More like a tool. Id say genasi is purest form of life since they have less "life" in them and more of that primordial creation force.
Dont even ask me about halfelves. Dont.

Neither cause they're both terrible
I'll take tieflings over Dragonborn though. There was a player in the TTRPG club of my uni who insisted on playing a dragonborn in every game. They would throw a fit if they weren't given wings as well because "user dragons have wings so I should as well".

Well whatever, I played 3rd edition and tieflings and aasimar were listed in the book so I assumed they were core races. I only played 3rd edition a handful of times.

You mean in 5e? In 5e the Core Tiefling and the Aasimar aren't similar, one is a race created by a pact made loooong ago that perdures in the families of those who made it. The other has in his family three a Good outsider.

For example, tiefling + human = tiefling always now. While Aasimar + human = human or aasimar

Maybe you should read up on their lore and not speculate from deep ignorance and stupidity.
Dragonborn are a race just like humans, created in ages past as a divine act by gods. which holds true despite any edition or form of them, yes even the weird template version from 3.5

Tieflings and aasimar are not half anything but descendents of them who can be several generations down the line who spontaneously evince the demonic taint that hides within their bloodline. And aasimar aren't descended of gods, but celestial creatures such as angels.

Genasi are generally the children of mortals and genies, of the four elementally aligned genie types, the dao, djinn, efreet, and marid. These types can breed true as their own race due to the effects of genie blood upon mortal bodies.

Half elves are just the mixing of an elf and a human, which is pretty simple since they are both mortal races which often mix together in more ways than one.

>Well sex with dragon is racemixing and bestiality so i say its bad.
Dragon borns had nothing to do with humans having sex with dragons though, they are 0% human btw, if we go by the current lore.

Genasies aren't descendants from fire and water, they're decendants from Genies (Djinni= Air, Eefriti= Fire, etc) for example, they have affinity to elements and this shows in their descendants.

>I never played D&D and I only speak from things I overheard from 1km away one sunday I had a killer hangover: The post

Dragonborn. At least tieflings have a mythical/literary precedent and aren't a pure D&Dism invented by closeted scalies.

Ascending AC? What is that?
The reverse of THAC0?

Tiefling as they're almost always edgelords

Dragons makes sense as it's called dungeons and dragons, seems dumb you can't play a dragon really.

>tfw no dungeonborn
I want to play as a dungeon damn it!

>tfw no dungeon gf who challenges you to plunder her treasuries

I've played with tiefling twice and they turned out alright, and a dragon born once, also turned out alright. Maybe user need better players?

Basically. It's some weird shit.

We'll that's just a given.

Both are shit that attract special snowflakes, but dragonborn are worse because they attract furfag special snowflakes

You try-hard trolls realize that that post makes no sense, right?

Imagine being so upset about people discussing D&D that you need to shitpost this badly.

Chinese dragon kings?

>And they fit well within any setting that isnt just a simulation of medieval times.

That and the Teiflings are, in 4e, a very old race that are heavily tied to their glory days with a very, very strong roman feel. You don't rescue a tiefling princess, you rescue a heir to one of the old houses who was a member of the senate when the empire was strong. You don't encounter a tiefling knight, you encounter a member of the Crimson Legion, descended from the last remaining Tiefling legions when they dominated the lands.

'Modern' Tieflings are basically how the Italians look back at Rome and go 'Wasn't it the greatest empire ever?' and quietly ignore all the horrible parts of it.

But muh edge demon race

Gnomes!

Putting gnomes in the books as a player race option back in the day opened the gates for it to be okay to have bland-shit races that are barely different from other options (gnomes used to basically just be dwarves with minor differences - same with halflings, but to a lesser degree because at least those little bastards were trying to ape hobbits, where gnomes were just being slightly-shorter dwarves for no fucking reason) - and thus people thought it was totally fine to have this super-huge list of options that were all barely any different from each other, leading to the shitshow that is how many types of elves there are (and other races with variants being not to far behind).

Tieflings and dragonborn are both a breath of fresh air by comparison - even with them being latched onto by both the shitbags that think they need to play those races in irritating edgelord fashion, and by the incompetence-masquerading-as-refined-taste DMs that feel like banning them for being "snowflake" races (blinded by the bland-parade of all the countless damn near identical races) or because they are so deluded as to think that muh setting purity is a better thing to aim for than actually having players at their table not wish the DM would unclench and let them try more shit that sounds cool.

Making tieflings a common race in the more traditional settings was a poor choice of 4e's, but there's still ways that tieflings can be used that aren't shit. Dragonborn are always shit

>What has been worse for D&D

3rd edition.

>A +Str +Cha race of speshul furfag self inserts
>Not cancer

Pick one

I hate aasimar more than either, fight me.

Watch the scalies samefag frantically.

Edgy players prefer evil Aasimar anyway. Dark Angels are way, way edgier than demonfolk.

Tieflings: Shit AD&D's Planescape creature. Shitty +1 level 3.5 race. Core in 4th-5th. Makes no sense without the Aasimar. Who they managed to make just because they had added the fucking Tiefling as motherfucking core.
Dragonborn: Shit racial modification from the Races of Dragon from 3.5. Core in 4th-5th.
Both races are stupid, look monstrous, which make the question of why the fuck not gnolls, orcs, kobolds, and wtf else you got, since they are already on the fucking monster core books. They tried to pander to this fucking logic on the fucking Volo book, but they fucked up.
The bottonline is, both races are out of place, especially the Dragonborn "showing up" in the forgotten realms and only pander to the worst playerbase that exists and 9 in them are the That Guys of the group.

Dragonborn players roleplay being a weird lizard man which is annoying, but tiefling players roleplay an edgy pompous asshole, so teiflings are worse.

>Both races are stupid, look monstrous, which make the question of why the fuck not gnolls, orcs, kobolds, and wtf else you got, since they are already on the fucking monster core books.
Well, why not, faggot?

Fucking hell yeah.

Sometimes I forget gnomes even exist. Why the fuck did they bring them back? Fucking why? Who the fuck plays gnomes?

youtube.com/watch?v=5KqjOGdOMtA

All of the responses to this thread seem to be coming from the perspective of players and not DMs. Using these snowflake races as NPCs can alter what your PCs think about a certain NPC. You can use it to make them trust the intentions and abilities of an NPC...or to lure them into mistrusting an NPC.

>Your final opponent emerges from the pit to the roar of the crowd. A human clad a steel breastplate wielding a greatsword lumbers across the arena towards you.
vs
>Your final opponent emerges from the pit to the roar of the crowd. A dragonborn clad a steel breastplate wielding a greatsword lumbers across the arena towards you.
Which one of these is more intimidating?

>A human woman beckons you to come downstairs to the basement of the Inn.
vs
>A tiefling woman beckons you to come downstairs to the basement of the Inn.
What do you expect to happen when you go downstairs in each scenario?

Maybe it's just because my players are racist, but they don't trust any NPC that isn't a human, an elf, or one of the midget races.

Of course it's from the perspective of players you dumb fuck. They're CORE PLAYER races, not creatures or characters from the MM.

Magic being OP

That's what I asked faggot. Why not the fucking gnoll who is a fucking monstrous asshole since 2nd edition, and instead make the tiefling who was just some human guy with horns, into a fucking monster, when you already had monsters. And I don't even like the fucking gnolls.

Did I say that them being PC races was unimportant and shouldn't be discussed? ...No...I didn't you fucking retard.

My point is that they have an ADDED benefit to the system/world in that there are NPCs running around as these races. As a DM, I can throw in a Tiefling NPC and the players don't have to ask about the traits and history of the race or wonder why this 1 in a million race is some random thug in an alley.

If you think they should be relegated to NPC only races, then make that point like an intelligent person and stop mindlessly blasting insults.

>>A human woman beckons you to come downstairs to the basement of the Inn.
>vs
>>A tiefling woman beckons you to come downstairs to the basement of the Inn.
>What do you expect to happen when you go downstairs in each scenario?
Probably "possibly sex, possibly robbery or assassination" either way, honestly.

Simple. There's more demand for tieflings than gnolls. It has nothing to do with what race has been around longer.

Plus gnolls have always been depicted as a monstrously evil race, whereas the entire point of tieflings is that despite their bloodlines they can be any given alignment.

I mean, we can be pretty sure the teifling doesn't need to sacrifice us for devilish power. She's already got it.

>What has been worse for D&D
technically neither, I doubt the addition of either race has caused a significant amount of people to not buy the game. but to answer your question, I personally don't like tieflings because they have the same problem as drow PCs, you need to have a good reason for a half-demon to want to work with the party instead of just sacrificing them all in their sleep to their demonic masters.

Shit mechanics, shit ideas, shit decision. Not planar races anymore, making them mundane and dumb.

Your "added benefit" for them being core in the PHB is that... you can add them into your game as typical NPCs.

What the fuck?

Their entire existence is unnecessary. They don't fit with the other core races; they should be relegated to splats like the rest of the monstrous races.

And like said, your example can be taken any way. You don't need a Tiefling to evoke feelings of mistrust, and you sure as hell don't need Dragonborn to create an intimidating foe.

But see user, the tiefling is lawlful good, despite 9 out of 10 times it being a rogue or warlock!
He is his own hero, trying to prove to everyone around him that he is not a bad guy, despite the fact that he bleeds bad when he gets hit. It is all about an arc that will never happen, because this ain't a fucking book.

And the fact is you can't. They are core races, and mundane as that makes them.
The stableboy? tiefling. That peasant plowing the fields? dragonborn. The town drunk? drangoborn. NPC running away to not get eaten by a dire badger? tiefling. Hillbilly that wants to hire you over a fishing dispute? tiefling. Tavern wench? dragonborn.
They are ugly as am otherfucker and you can see them everywhere now, like the core mundane shit they had become.

I play gnomes in 4e, because 4e gnomes are actually a distinct race

And not good at being that, you have to add.

>Their entire existence is unnecessary. They don't fit with the other core races; they should be relegated to splats like the rest of the monstrous races.

How do they 'not fit' in a setting where they are a core part of the history?

>need to have a good reason to... work with the party instead of just sacrificing them all in their sleep to their demonic masters.
It seems more like you're complaining about the Warlock as a core class than the Tiefling as a core race, at least as they are written in the rulebooks.

>I personally don't like tieflings because they have the same problem as drow PCs, you need to have a good reason for a half-demon to want to work with the party instead of just sacrificing them all in their sleep to their demonic masters.

Ah yes...the demonic masters that 99% of Tieflings don't have because they are descended far, far down the tree rather than personally making a pact. You might as well worry about humans sacrificing you to Zarus as he's their master.

Technically the 5th edition is Forgotten Realms, and no they are not part of anything at all, ever, they're not even close at that.
And yes, it is the new D&D update, so yes, the 5th edition is the new global standard, you like it or not.

>Not using Zarus as the default Human deity
>Not turning Humans into an ungodly conquering machine, purging the setting of all other races, like humans would gladly do in any facet of their species, rivalizing with the hobgoblins for the same goal
feels bad, man

>Technically the 5th edition is Forgotten Realms, and no they are not part of anything at all, ever, they're not even close at that.

You clearly missed the Spellplague that happened generations ago then. At this point, they've been around for a long time.

I'm just not that into Warhammer 40k, alright?

I don't know. 5e retconned a lot of things, why not Dragonborn and Tieflings as well?

Logically their existence makes... somewhat sense. Dragonborn stay behind to try and fight for their new homeland rather than return to Abeir, waging battle against the original inhabitants of that land who returned after Second Sundering.

Tieflings meanwhile reproduce like rabbits, since all tieflings are children tieflings. And their appearance is the way it is (rather than superior Planescape version) cause of Asmodeus' rise to Godhood.

But like, fuck. I don't have to like it.

Do you even know what you're talking about? Lol.

Do you mean to say popularity?

No good teifling is the max edge. Nothing edger then a brooding good guy with a dark past full of hurt and angst.

Also for anyone saying tiefling is only bad becasue asimer are not in the game have shit taste. Any thing that has to fuck an outsider to be born should not be so prevalent that it is a core race. Like saying jesus christ is just a bro we hang with from time to time. No big.

>Question: What has been worse for D&D
>Answer: Playing it

Now do you honestly think what you said made sense or was clever in some way?

Neither? Of all the plethora of issues that have plagued D&D over the decades, the race options has been so far down the list that it isn't worth mention. Your question is the equivalent of nitpicking the lawn ornaments in front of a building that is currently on fire.

The premise of a joke is the subversion of expected outcomes for humorous results, so yes I'd say his post was pretty clever.

Maybe the ornaments caused the fire in the first place.

Nitpicking implies a triviality. Naturally if one of the lawn ornaments is a barrel of kerosene there might be a cause for a concern unless the possessed garden gnomes managed to get their hands on a torch and some kindling.

>You might as well worry about humans sacrificing you to Zarus as he's their master.
next time I play D&D again I'm stealing this idea for my character.

It all boil down to the gnomes. I knew it. I agree with you in so many ways.

How is "more=better" weird?

dragon born

tieflings make sense, dragonborn are just lizardfolk except everything that makes lizardfolk lizardfolk, so basically human lizards

That's basically what hanging out with a high level Cleric is like, though.

That's just what I tell everyone. I'm secretly tight with the devil.

>Thinking either of them are worse than half-elves

>It is all about an arc that will never happen, because this ain't a fucking book.

Man, your GM doesn't do character arcs or have interactions in individual scenes that basically force your character to grow and change?

That's just really fuckin' sad, honestly.

Thri-kreen took over a vanilla fantasy world. Bing, every one of those NPCs makes complete sense now.

People that think the problem was ever dragornborn or tieflings and not the awful people that roleplaying (sadly) attracts are severely mistaken. All the 'normie' plp I know who played Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim loved Argonians and Khajit because they found beast-people to be awesome, not because they're deviants. The weird fetishy shit came before any of these races (ever heard of Drow?) and it would still infect DnD without them.

Another reason why I like them is that they're more distinctly non-human than the others. Take elves for example: A Caucasian looks more like your cut-and-dry white elf than he does a black person. If I don't feel like playing as a human, then I'll play as something different, not as an 'almost-human'.

Kender.

>if I give the trolls the negative attention they're desperately seeking, they will surely stop shitposting and go on to lead productive and enjoyable lives!

Do you see where you made the error

adding "advanced" to the name and releasing it

>so yes I'd say my post was pretty clever.

Fixed for you. And, no, it's about as clever as someone asking "What's your favorite color?" and replying "I hate paint."