/STG/ - Star Trek General

Not Up to Code Edition

Previous Thread: A thread for discussing the 'Star Trek' franchise and its various tabletop adaptations.

Possible topics include Modiphius' new rpg 'Star Trek Adventures', WizKids miniatures game 'Star Trek: Attack Wing', and Gale Force Nine's board game 'Star Trek: Ascendancy', as well as the previous rpgs produced by FASA, Last Unicorn Games and Decipher, the Starfleet Battles Universe, and the Star Trek universe in general.


Game Resources

Star Trek Adventures
-Official Modiphius Page (Rules, FAQ and Player Resources)
>modiphius.com/star-trek.html
-PDF Collection
>mediafire.com/folder/0w33ywljd1pdt/Star_Trek_Adventures

Older Licensed RPGs (FASA, Last Unicorn Games and Decipher)
>pastebin.com/ndCz650p

Other (Unlicensed) RPGS (Far Trek + Lasers and Feelings)
>pastebin.com/uzW5tPwS

Star Trek: Attack Wing
-Official WizKids Page (Rules, FAQ and Player Resources)
>wizkids.com/attackwing/star-trek-attack-wing/

Star Trek: Ascendancy (Rules and Player Resources)
-Official Gale Force Nine Page
>startrek.gf9games.com/


Lore Resources

Memory Alpha - Canon wiki
>en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Portal:Main

Memory Beta - Noncanon wiki for licensed Star Trek works
>memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Fan Sites - Analysis of episodes, information on ships, technobabble and more
>pastebin.com/mxLWAPXF

Star Trek Maps - Based on the Star Trek Star Charts, updated and corrected
>startrekmap.com/index.html

/stg/ Homebrew Content
>pastebin.com/H1FL1UyP

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=8x38EH0PcxQ
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Who did you agree with? Captain Picard (prime directive) or Dr. Crusher (hippocratic oath)?

I don't usually side with Picard, but in this instance, he's correct. They need to solve their own problems, and not helping them is a better solution than getting involved and telling them (or forcing them) to change.

It sucks, people will be hurt by it, but in the long run, both societies will recover and one of them will no longer be exploited addicts.

His solution was to somehow make it so the drug dealers couldn't ship to the addict planet anymore, right?

The addicts were taking their payment to the dealer planet in their last working interstellar craft. Picard just refused to give them the repair parts to keep it working.

This. Picard realized that informing those people about their addiction and aiding them violated the prime directive, but so did giving them the proper parts to repair their freighters that carried the medicine to them, so he did neither. The people of that planet would have to figure it out themselves and the federation would not have interfered.

Picard was right in this instance. The whole affair was not his or the Federations business and he was under no obligation to supply the part they needed either. This is a prime directive issue. Saving them from their exploding ship is the limit of what he should (and did) do.
These are not Federation citizens, they are not Federation allies and in their current state, wouldn't be allowed to join if they asked.

>wouldn't be allowed to join if they asked
I think the Federation protects and aids literally anyone who asks though.

Yes but I assume non federation worlds and vessels rarely call on the federation for help unless they happen to be in range of them.

Would Liberated Borg be slightly more resistant to nano probes than regular beings?

Come to think of it, how is the nano probe thing handled when you're un-assimilated?

Are they still in contact with the Collective and what is stopping the Borg from re-activating them at an inopportune time?

Given how susceptible Seven was to various bullshit I'd think that liberated Borg are far less resistant to nano probes than regular dudes.

Does cloaking work at all against the Borg?

Or are their sensors so advanced they'll always know you're there?

Off the top of my head I don't recall a single Borg episode that involved somebody cloaking so from hard canon we wouldn't know. Since we've seen assimilated Klingons and Romulans they almost assuredly have knowledge of the tech which means they've probably developed countermeasures, although knowing the Borg it's probably a case of not bothering to actively use it until a ship becomes a threat.

In vidya cloaking works against Borg but that's mostly for game balance and programming reasons. No idea what the novels say while the Borg are still around.

In all fairness, the part was fairly simple to replicate and Picard likely would have given it to them if they showed they knew how to fix it and install it because that’s just giving them something they already have and already know how to use in an emergency.
But since their whole planet was addicted their functionality was near zero due to being a culture of addicts, so he could argue that it was against the Prime Directive to help them by giving them technology they couldn’t operate or understand.

In both the Shatnerverse and at least one comic, I notice they make mention of the Borg construction massive ships and or stations that are basically Hypercubes.

If those were to actually exist, could one ever actually exist in realspace?

Or would the entire ship-structure collapse or cease to be the second it made the translation to realspace because physics doesn't support it?

Even if we don't factor in the fact that the Borg have assimilated Romulans and Klingons like said, I would assume that the cloaking tech used by Alpha Quadrant powers would be as useless against the Borg as the D's shields were at stopping the Borg from transporting aboard the ship. The Borg are just too advanced and they've probably encountered (and assimilated) species with that kind of tech before.

I see.

I wonder, if you get past the fact it's an abomination, would the Scimitar's Thalaron Radiation Array be of use against the Borg?

I've heard shields are of no effect against it.

For that matter, would the Son'a's Subpsace weapons be of use against them as well?

I'm not sure any type of shield can stop that effectively.

>Scimitar's Thalaron Radiation Array be of use against the Borg?
Yes, Thalaron radiation seems to be something the Borg have never seen before, and wipes out elements of the Collective fast enough they can't adapt in time. During the Beta canon war against the Borg, Picard goes full Ahab and demands that Geordi make a shitload of Thalaron torpedoes to kill Borg ships.

>Son'a's Subpsace weapons
Subspace gimmicks are probably pretty common, but there's not any material discussing what use it would be against the Borg.

To be honest, I'm not sure Subspace Weapons are a viable idea.

I may be wrong, but isn't the damage that weaponry does irreparable?

The damaged areas do repair themselves over time, but you're still fucking yourself over for a minor bonus.

I wonder how great of a weapon the Cardassian Kulinor from Armada II would be against the Borg given it can draw in Species 8742 bio-ships.

I figure that's probably lunacy and or not practical given Species 8742 is likely to respond very poorly to what amounts to kidnapping.

So /STG/, I’ve got a question about the Miranda-class ship.
You see older stuff of the Miranda-class in TOS-era shit so it seems like one of their older “holdover” ships like the Excelsior-class, but a lot of Beta-canon and other shit, even STA, says it only got fully completed in the 2370’s, a decade after TNG begins.
What gives?

There’s basically two versions of the Miranda-class, which mostly is caused by people reusing the model for TOS for the sake of cost-efficiency.
The later refit Miranda from the 2370’s is supposed to be internally up to snuff with most Federation ships of the era due to the model being really easy to modify, and actually the phase cannons on it’s roll-bar above the saucer are fairly unusually powerful for Starfleet who tends to prefer phaser arrays and banks mostly.

It tends to get destroyed a lot in battle scenes, which is easily explained by the Miranda-class being fairly small (and thus vulnerable) for a Starfleet ship, being only a little bit bigger then the Defiant and not being an overpowered little monster of a ship like the Defiant was built to be, so it takes some serious casualties in real fights in addition to not having proteagonist-powered force fields.

Basically, from a tactical standpoint the later Miranda-class is a corvette; faster, nimbler, with solid firepower, but against a proper full-sized warship it’ll fold up pretty fast.

Also it seems there is more Mirandas around in various configurations than there are of any other ship in Starfleet in 2370s.

So in Star Trek, would you prefer a fleet of smaller ships or one big warship?

Depends on how big the warship. But generally, Trek ships don't do well when outnumbered, when they can't just swat the enemy ships down in one or two hits.

>visit /STG/ one day
>Hurr Durr The Star Trek ship can have it's phasers lock on multiple targets and wipe them out with eas.
>Watches every fight that the Star Trek ship have against multiple smaller ships usually end up with the Star Trek ship getting it ass whooped unless it launch a torpedo when they all cluster tight together with for some reason
>Even the Enterprise was getting it's ass whoop against a very small and fast ship

That's because they have like one guy controlling 20 something banks and turrets and won't even give him a chair.

Depens on the fight really. IRL warships can track and target several targets at the same time, the problem comes when there are more targets than the ship computers and crew can handle. Same seems to apply to ships in Star Trek. When you have several smaller ships attacking from different directions it seems to cause problems to the otherwise formidable shields most ships have, probably due to the fact that the tactical can't weaken one shield facing and dumb the excess energy to the facing being attacked.

Then there is the tech involved. We have seen Ent-D take out several smaller ships that where quite far behind it technologically. And then there is the example of Galaxy getting seriously damaged when it faced weapon tech on small ships it's shields could not block, eventually getting blown up by a ramming.

This. Even with computers it's hard to calculate spatial vector variables when your legs are cramping up

Reminder to all captains, tomorrow starts Qs winter wonderland, just remember to KILL THE SNOW MAN INVADER! DEFEND THE GINGERBREAD MOTHERLAND FROM SNOWBORG SCUM! ONE MAN GETS PHASER RIFLE AND ONE MAN GETS ENERGY CLIP, WHEN FIRST MAN IS KILLED THE SECOND TAKES THE RIFLE AND KEEPS ON FIGHTING!

So in what way is Q going to be bugged for this event? Through the floor? Hovering? Standing on a thing he should be sitting on?

Bugger if i know, but if he sits, then i shall sit on his lap.

Q looks intensely uncomfortable at the erection he undoubtedly has.

You're a week early.

Well holy shit you are right.
My bad.

What are the odds that the Tal Shiar, Section 31, Obsidian Order (or what's left post-war), etc are experimenting with psionics or Borg tech?

Basically 100% I imagine.

Ok, added question: what are the different groups doing with them and how might they be excelling/fucking up? Addendum for 31, let's not consider native telepaths except in attempts to push their abilities further.

>For that matter, would the Son'a's Subpsace weapons be of use against them as well?

If anything probably less effective against Borg than anyone else. We don't really know how Transwarp engines work, but they don't seem to interact with subspace the same way standard warp drives do.

Can we at least expect to see the ship we're getting before the event starts?

Isn't the canon background for Nero's ugly spider ship that he raided a Romulan research station doing dodgy experiments with Borg technology?

Psychic abilities are old hat in Star Trek, but also appear to be relatively difficult to replicate; multiple existing species seem to have potential access to them (Humams, Betazoid, Deltans, Vulcans), but the science behind them seems not well understood or perhaps it works differently for each species.
With Vulcans at the very least it actually seems to be a sort of skill you need to practice and get better at rather then something they are born with, which sort of fits in with the whole theme of Vulcans having tons of different forms of highly useful applicable knowledge due to their advanced evolutionary state and whatnot.

>We don't really know how Transwarp engines work, but they don't seem to interact with subspace the same way standard warp drives do.
True, but subspace weaponry doesn't rely on the enemy using subspace engines, it's just blatantly destructive. Sure, the Borg could probably still use transwarp later, but they might not survive the weapon's impact itself.

Kinda. I believe that the Narada was actually intentionally upfitted with Borg tech as a testbed. Nero then nicked it and went on his hilarious funtime adventures.

100%, at least with Borg tech. Psionics seem... dodgy, in Trek. People have them but it seems shaky to rely on and inconsistent at best.

Here's hoping it isn't for some on-screen-for-10-minutes species

>Inb4 it's a kentari battlecruiser.

...

So how much more powerful were these much larger Dominion battleships than the original ones?

By about tree fiddy.

In seriousness, it's probably just the FX department fucking up scales. Again.

Yeah, but that may have also been the Dominion improving on the design.

I'm pretty sure it'll be a T6 Plesh Brek, given that last year's was the T6 Chell Grett.

It's possible, but considering the K'vort is a silly upscale of the B'rel... Eh. It's just something that seems to happen in Trek.

But, in universe, it's probably a beast and considering its size and the usual "biggerer is betterer" attitude in soft scifi, I'd say it can give a Negh'var pause.

This most likely. Which is fine. I wish I hadn't missed the original Plesh Brek (and I'm sorta bummed I missed the Sar Theln).

I love Star Trek, but hate Wiz Kids and the X-Wing doesn't do it for me with larger ships.

Real starship mini game when?

Wish granted, but it's based on STD

What is STD?

It's what you get when you try to force Trek to be a mainstream show and lock it behind a paywall.

I have little interest in seeing STD but I'm curious about if there's any analysis anywhere about how a mainstream show differs from classic Trek.

Not saying your wrong, just saying sometimes doing different things with Trek worked, like DS9

Well, at least 3d printing is getting better so that maybe sooner than later it'll be viable for the less affluent of us to assemble fleets of ships outside of the SFB stuff.

DS9 had "abysmal" viewership compared to TNG. CBS/Paramount has been desperately trying to make the TNG lightning strike twice, often with mixed results.

VOY might have been able to (despite or because of how stupid it is, you decide), but they stuck it on UPN for no goddamn reason.

Is it me or does Gowron wind up being no better than Duras by the time he is dethroned?

Gowron is the embodiment of "lesser of two evils". Robert O'Reilly is a treasure, however.

Nah. the Duras were trying to sell out the Empire to the Romulans for power. Gowron is just so caught up in the warrior culture and victory that he can't see that his actions are wrecking the Empire.

Gowron was always a petty piece of shit. Duras, on the other hand, wanted to be dominated by Romulans.

So how is STD different? Just want someone to give me the gist of how its "not Star Trek" like I hear so I can be forewarned

Funny thing, I don't think Worf, under Picard, would have challenged Gowron. He'd have talked big and maybe gotten up in his face but then Picard would have yanked the leash and given Worf a speech about how being Starfleet meant taking it up the ass sometimes.
Sisko is the one that really taught Worf how to be a real man.

>Duras, on the other hand, wanted to be dominated by Romulans.
5 bucks says half the Klingons in the empire have this fetish.

I thought Duras was planning on dissipating his associations with the Romulans after it stopped being useful?

No Duras in the history of the Empire has ever given up sucking on the Romulan teat. The traitorous taste of betrayal is too sweet.

On the other hand, Picard could have just challenged Gowron himself. Ol' Crazyeyes would have backed down.

It doesn’t “feel” like Star Trek.
Rather then an ensable cast there is a very clear leaning towards two actors as “main” characters.
Starfleet is extremely military in flavor here rather then an exploration agency with self-defense force/police force bits.
Everyone EXCEPT the Captain looks and acts like they are under the age of 25 and just graduated from college or high school instead of being of a wide variety of ages and actually acting like they are skilled professionals who are good at their job.
It hits a lot of Trek notes, but also hits a lot of notes that are found in other TV shows that are thematically antithetical or just off in Star Trek, all of it clearly thrown in “because other popular shows are doing it” rather then even attempting to make it work in a Trek-style show.

It basically feels like someone took the Star Trek franchise logo and then instead of looking at ANY Star Trek show and what people liked about it looked towards modern television in general and then slapped the Trek logo on it while shoving all of that into the show, which is probably literally exactly what happened since they FIRED the one guy who wrote Trek stuff and was a Trek fan before the show even started full production.

As I once put it to my brother, contrastingbwith the Orville;
>”Discovery is an official Trek show that feels like and is written like a silly knockoff franchise, while Orville is a silly knockoff that feels like and is written like an official Trek show.”

It’s more that Sisko, being a far more combative Captain and being stuck in a far more precarious situation politically, was simply willing to let Worf be Worf.
That and Worf’s promotion higher rank means that he had a lot less holding him back higher up the food chain and he was allowed to make more of his own decisions.

>Starfleet is extremely military in flavor here rather then an exploration agency with self-defense force/police force bits.

Well, the focus is the Federation at war more than exploration so.

And the Federation is no stranger to going on military bents.

This is true, and in fact the latter DS9 episodes are very much like what the Federation feels like while at war.
Discover still fucks that up somehow and instead looks more to what people in the newer Battlestar Galactica act like during war.

Finally, it must be said that the main character of the show feels almost like a deliberate parody of the “Ensign Mary Sue” concept right down to the “Spock’s secret sibling also has Vulcan training” thing, except there is absolutely zero parody in it and it is being played 100% without irony.

Well they at least get the bit right about the Federation's attitude of seeking peace getting the better of them.

The Cleave ship ramming the admirals own warship after a ceasefire was a good example of that to me.

Also a good example of Klingon behavior being unbroken over all.

Gowron was always a mediocre commander and events pushed him into being very pressured to achieve success after numerous setbacks. Having to have the Federation bail him out repeatedly in subtle ways wasn't exactly helping his case for remaining High Chancellor. And by that I mean he got into power because a Federation officer murdered his #1 rival, he had to be bailed out by the brother of said officer to survive even the opening of the civil war, then had to have the Feds prove the Duras's Romulan connection, he lost the fight at DS9, had to have the Feds once again bail him out in proving that Martok was a changeling, leading to going back on his earlier stance and reforming the alliance, and then at the peak of the problems during the Dominion war, everyone else was hogging the glory because he was still only a mediocre commander.

He was in a shit situation where there was a clear, better choice for war leader but there's no way in the Klingon system (as it had become) to allow for him to simply trust that Martok wouldn't use it against him if he did hand off control because it'd be a huge slight against his own leadership capability. The warrior culture demands that in the greatest war they'd ever fought, the Chancellor must also be capable of leading that war, otherwise why is he in charge?

Duras though, was actively using connections with a long term enemy rather than ally in order to gain power. And Gowron, as a victor, was able to cover up a lot of the outside assistance he had. But even so, Federation assistance as a proven honourable ally was clearly far more preferable.

>he lost the fight at DS9,

I thought he didn't lose so much as simply halted the attack as the cost of victory was not worth it.

Still looks bad on their part. Goes to war on an opportunistic impulse only vaguely justified by the changeling threat and ends up not only fucking up a long standing, hard earned alliance but has to fall back from a battle with said (former)alliance member?

Even with the latter successes of the war, he gon look like he fucked up in going about it in that way. Council members would be thinking that maybe a better leader wouldn't have lost, or pissed away the alliance that they later had to reinstate anyway. Certain warrior houses will be reeling from the loss of ships on a pointless battle.

I believe we call that conceding defeat. Or "losing", to the uninitiated.

To be fair, it'd be the fault of the other council members for going along with the Invasion that was a response to the perceived changeling threat to begin with.

When the Avenger was attacking the Defiant, why didn't they bother aiming for it's nacelles and crippling those first?

Why attack the saucer first?

youtube.com/watch?v=8x38EH0PcxQ

They're stupid, like many people in the Mirror Universe.

We've seen the Federation in war mode before. Hell, in the Original Series we have the Federation and Klingons actually briefly go to war, just 10 years after Discovery is set, meaning presumably everyone on the Enterprise was alive during Discovery's run and most everyone in Discovery's run is probably alive while Kirk is captaining the Enterprise.

No one aboard the NCC-1701 acts anything like what the folks on the Discovery act even though some of them are probably veterans of this first round of conflict.

For that matter, we've seen the Federation in war mode throughout much of Deep Space 9, too. They still somehow didn't bring themselves to build a torture drive.

As much as Connies get shit on for how few of them seem to survive TOS, they're surprisingly hardy when backed against a wall. Elaan of Troyius has a similar sabotage and ambush segment, and the Enterprise manages, with some finagling, to restore warp power and pulverize a D7 with photon torpedoes.

An NX is far, far less powerful than a D7. Additionally, Soval may have been trying to preserve the Defiant so that it could be used against the Terran Empire. Despite those hits Avenger gets on the primary hull (3:02), it doesn't look like it actually penetrated Defiant's armor in the scene where she fires weapons at Avenger. It wouldn't have penetrated the armor on the nacelles either.

Whoops. 3:02 is the scene where Defiant fires. 1:58 is when Avenger gets its hits in on the primary hull with Defiant's shields down at the time.

>They still somehow didn't bring themselves to build a torture drive.

That wouldn't be the worst thing the Federation has ever done in wartime, or even before it.

The worst part of that is that when the Defiant is shown again, there is no damage to the hull section when it's over Earth.

Also, the Photonic Torpedeos or actual phaser arrays likely would have accomplished sheering away a nacelle unless it's as you've speculated and they wanted the ship in tact as much as possible.

Maybe they would have, and maybe they wouldn't. If they didn't penetrate the armor on the saucer, I fail to see how they would do differently on the pylons, no matter how fragile they appear. Either way, Soval and Avenger were fucked the moment he didn't at least try it. Hell, if they wanted to stop it or destroy it, ramming Defiant would have been the most assured way to take it out.

Mirror Soval had no emotional control, he was probably too busy grinding his hips into the captains chair while yelling "kill it!" to come up with any logical plan.

Well for one, they were just firing pulse lasers at the Defiant the whole time.

They went with the option least likely to do significant damage, while also choosing to target the section with the least essential equipment and paid the price for it. Mirror Universe characters being lunatics isn't something new.

Does anyone have a Starfleet Battles trove?

I think it would summon them and then run like hell

Thoughts? The Morse is supposed to look like 2D, of course.

Or alternatively, without the Morse code:

>AKA The One where Bortus Takes Yaphit Orally

Reminder for everyone to make sure to use spoilers since it takes a few days for most of us to catch up.

Select the text and hit control+s for easy spoiler tagging.

I apologize for being a poor sport and forgetting to spoiler when I ranted about "Cupid's Dagger". It does deserve the bad tag though.

That's actually not a bad plan.

It's a funny one at that.

Like kicking open some one's door and pointing to someone else as the culprit.

Isn't Issac, not Ed, who shoots that guy in If The Stars Should Appear?

Well, "The One where Bortus Takes Yaphit Orally" is spoiler-free, or at least I think it's spoiler-free. I spoiler-tagged the actual spoilery bit.

Right, good point.

Looking for a better AKA for "Krill" as well, if anyone has any suggestions.