Should magical effects or items ever have a "breaking point" or an tolerance limit. I'm not talking about legendary one of a kind godly items, but readily available magical enchantments. Suppose for example, you had an enchanted iron shield with an inertial/kinetic repellent enchantment. Most people believe them to be able to deflect any amount of force, which is fine when your dealing with the force hammer blows, arrows, or thrown rocks able to deliver.
A 2 pound spear thrown at 73 fps will deliver 167 ft-pounds of force. How about a bullet that delivers 2700 pounds of force? A tank shell at 23,744 of force? 50,000? 1,000,000?
Can spells be broken or have tolerance limits even to what they are designed to do, or should magic have no upper limit (will deflect any amount of force no matter how strong)
Dominic Cook
Depends on what the gm thinks is balanced and fair.
Christopher Brooks
It would likely depend on the thematica and the spiritual presence or magical power of things involved, rather than actual calculations of force.
Jace Barnes
This is always true, but I'd like to know the ramifications or how it would affect the setting.
Like, suppose you have downed a fire resistance potion or perhaps you are a magical fire golem. Obviously this will work on common stuff like escaping a burning building.
If magic has limits, it could be known that even the intense fire breath of a dragon will not prevent you from being burned to ashes.
If magic has no upper limit though, by merit of being magical, someone could open up a portal to the surface of sun to burn you up and you'd still be fine.
Aaron Garcia
Saying it is dependent on magical power seems about the same as implying magical limitations.
If something doesn't have enough magical power or spiritual presence, it could fail for example.
Jason Collins
Yeah, but it's a more abstract, metaphysical sort of limitation rather than trying to key it to specific values of force or heat. That kind of detailed, numerical granularity isn't really appropriate to most fantasy stuff, IMO.
A fire resistance potion might protect you from mundane fire, shield you from magical fire to a degree, but fail under the assault of baleful hellfire, or the primal flame of an elemental lord. The latter two aren't necessarily hotter, but they're more metaphysically potent.
Nolan Bailey
It depends what the setting is and what the GM thinks is fair.
Some settings have magic with no upper limit and some do.
Wyatt Richardson
Ah, I like that.
So you could walk through a Dwarven Forge just fine, but a little bit of Hellfire is going to give you a nasty burn.
Charles Scott
user thats saying the same thing. Anyway my question is how the setting might be different with either choice. What kind of nuances or so on if people know they won't need to worry about being hit by a train if take some protection just before.
Julian Moore
Again, the ramifications of it IS the setting. It's not going to change the setting at all because the setting is based around that magic.
Joseph James
And since each setting has its own definition of magic, each setting is going to be different no?
So yeah the setting changes per the DM's interpretation on magic. I'm not sure why you're missing the point here when I'm asking about how that setting might be
Jaxson Cooper
It would be the same as asking what the ramifications pf magic on a DnD setting that already has magic from the DnD standard spellbook.
People would use magic to protect themselves if they had the ability to, but it's not going to change the setting because nothing is added to the setting itself.
And yes, each setting is different with different types of magic, but asking how each type of magic effects the setting differently is literally part of the setting.
If you want to define a setting with a magic system, define the magic system as well.
Kevin Evans
I suppose I must be asking the question incorrectly.
Its less "how will this change the setting" more "what is the setting like if magic has no upper limit".
Colton Cook
It depends on the setting.
How common is magic? How difficult are the no upper limit spells? How long do they last? How difficult is life?
Adrian Martinez
Alright. Let's think of one.
>How common is magic? Fairly. It's akin to an MMO where adventurers are quite common and almost all of them even the lowest have one magical item or weapon, most towns have a potion store >How difficult are the no upper limit spells? Presumably, if we suppose none of them have a "force tolerance limit" all of them, but rather have a metaphysical limit. A magical arrow with a penetration charm will go through 5 feet of steel, but will be repulsed by a bit of plywood enchanted with anti-penetration/barrier protection. >How long do they last? Suppose magical enchantments don't fade out, unless corrupted or destroyed by other magic (or anti-magic). >How difficult is life? Hard to answer something broad like this, but let's suppose there's a booming adventurer industry and many other industries built around it (potion stores, armorers, taverns, etc.). If you don't want to become one of them, you become a town guard, a soldier, or a bandit.
Andrew Hill
What about farming? How is it affected by magic?
How broad of a magic system is this?
Do spells just have specific things they do? Does a penetration spell just penetrate or can it be used for other things?
You're not describing the magic enough to have it make sense nor are you describing the setting enough to show how it would be affected.
Benjamin Phillips
Let's suppose a high magical setting.
I would imagine magical fertilizers or the hiring of nature spirits would be
For simplicity spells can simply be single purpose. Penetration enchanted weapons will, obviously, penetrate more easily.
I think the biggest difference between two settings where magic does or doesn't have a strength limitation is that magic becomes much more valuable in one where magic has no upper limit.
If a magic sword will cut through steel as easily as it would paper, with magic being the only recourse, then the setting will be much more defined by magic.
If a magic sword simply cuts through steel better than a non-magic sword, but won't cut through three feet of steel because that's simply way too much, then there's still merit in having non-magical applications of things.
Jordan Morales
In general, most spells just reduce force/energy. They dont stop all of it and whats left over can break the enchanted object or kill the person under the spell. There are some spells like "impenerable wall of force" that negate all kinetic energy directed at it. Now all of these spells usually have time limits unless its a magic object or cast with permancy. I like a setting where magic moves around forces. Getting hit with a cannon ball? A defense pell turns the KE of the ball into heat, light, and sound
Dominic Jenkins
That sounds like it could be used to some really interesting applications.
imagine "Flash Bullets" that impact but the kinetic force becomes light and sound. they'd be non-lethal, but absolutely blinding and deafening especially at night.
Jace Powell
desu i think this comes down to a con/hp/don't break roll for the object in question. that's how i always handle stuff like this.
David Cook
>A 2 pound spear thrown at 73 fps will deliver 167 ft-pounds of force. Ft-lbs isn't a unit of force, it's a unit of energy
>How about a bullet that delivers 2700 pounds of force? The exact forces involved in a collision are a very complex affair. They depend not just on the thrown object here, but on how exactly the two objects in the collision interact with each other. (Forces are never something an object has on its own, a force is a measure of how two things interact mechanically.) They are also dynamic, changing throughout the collision's duration. It's seldom the case that you have a useful way of calculating the force so that you can then use the force to calculate what'll happen, instead the only way of calculating the forces is usually to see what happened and calculate the forces from there.
