Necropolitans

>mechanically weak
Nigga undead is the second best creature type in 3.5.

You get d12 HD too.

>Isn't it extraordinarily painful?
Only for small hotheads.

You seem to be glossing over the part where you're a shambling corpse powered by antilife. Yeah, you can't have kids. But you also can't have sex (I assume), likely don't enjoy eating much, quite possibly have an inhibited ability to feel love or joy, look like crap...

So what's left? What's that thing you're really looking forward to doing once you're dead?

Doesn't it have LA +1 as well? The phrasing's a little wonky, but I believe the intent is you remain at your current effective level despite losing a class level. If so, that's another reason it's shit for a lot of classes.

But like, you get stat bonuses. Who'd refuse to be tortured to death if it meant you get stat bonuses?

>likely don't enjoy eating much, quite possibly have an inhibited ability to feel love or joy
Nothing says that about necropolitans.

>look like crap
'S what Gentle Repose is for.

Necropolitans don't have LA.
It's BETTER than LA, because you make up your lost levels quickly.

>Nothing says that about necropolitans.
Not explicitly, no, but they're undead. It'd be pretty bizarre and fairly unprecedented if they were exactly like their living selves in all ways except a few precise mechanical adjustments.

>'S what Gentle Repose is for.
I guess, but then you've got a weird dependency/maintenance layer between you and looking like crap. I feel like that'd wear on most people. Well, most living people.

>Nothing says that about necropolitans.
It's implied by the fact that they're undead monsters.

Yo I wanna fuck that cat

Necropolitans are inherently less undead-y than other undead.

I feel like anyone with 9k gold dosn't give a fuck about disease. They are also probely okay with dying because dying in D&D really isn't bad.

You get to go on a crazy adventure and end up by the side of your God, whom you get lots of empirical and objective evidence of when you are alive. Then you are immortal anyway, and hanging out with your god of choice.

>Undead, dead but still lingering around, misunderstood undead, undead monster, undead pornstar, necromancer, necropolitans, shaman, spirituality related magic, ancestor magic thing, gone but not forgotten, forgotten but not gone, reflavoring the rules because you are a good dm, ¥£€₩ and etc.
All these thing are bad. And having children is a commitment. Also, the part where you have to feed on another living soul.

Because it requires a ritual involving (your) crucifixion, and the result is far weaker than a regular lich or vampire.

Besides, while I can't find it I remember there was a prestige class or something, which allowed an undead spawn to regain their personality and free will upon their sire's destruction, the example character being a Shadow sorceress. While being incorporeal might sound like a hassle, if you combine it with the Ghostly Grasp feat from Libris Mortis you get the best of both worlds. And of course you still have your spawning ability.

I think if there was such an effect it has more has to do with the "torture the life out of them" and their particulars than part than something innate to undeath. Vampires and liches often embrace finery and decadence: they can enjoy stuff in their undeath. Nothing about being dead means you can't enjoy stuff. It's just you are affected by magic differently and if any of your niceness or goodness was a result of either your body functioning soundly, or positive energy shenanigans, that's gone: you're alone spiritually. Also we know revenants aren't necessarily monsters despite being undead. I'd say it works like this:

There's no limits on the ritual that make you wicked, whether by giving you cravings or requiring you to kill a baby, or an alignment shift. You keep going by negative energy. You're like a warlok whose power comes from fiends but you can do whatever with it, only your whole life essence comes from dark gods. Do what you want with that life, but your soul may already have been taken to wherever it was going to end up.

It's not a good deal, since your sacrificing that eternal life with your deity of choice for nothing. You rejected life, and now you you may get to be dead for good when you're gone: your soul consumed and extinguished. Maybe it's already gone and you're a philosophical zombie as well as a literal one. But your brain still has your memories and you can still fire up the ol' heart to feel things just as you did before. Like regret for throwing life away. That's just my interpretation. The problem is it lacks fluff.

> a weird dependency/maintenance layer between you and looking like crap. I feel like that'd wear on most people. Well, most living people.
Most living people have to shower, and brush their hair and shave their faces/legs or whatever and they still age and fall apart without any external threats. They have to exercise to stay fit. Just having to do a little ritual every week doesn't sound too bad.

>You get to go on a crazy adventure and end up by the side of your God, whom you get lots of empirical and objective evidence of when you are alive. Then you are immortal anyway, and hanging out with your god of choice.

But all your memories are totally scrubbed clean. It's ego death.

>You rejected life, and now you you may get to be dead for good when you're gone: your soul consumed and extinguished.
Nnnnnnnnnno?
Nothing stops undead from dying and having their souls go to the Outer Planes.

>Nothing stops undead from dying
You can't die when you're already dead.

> Also, the part where you have to feed on another living soul.
Necropolitans are explicitly made through the following method: Get crucified, have people chanting a ritual as you slowly bleed out from the crucifixion, revive a short while later after expiring as an undead having lost 1 character level and 1000 more XP which might drop you down another level (if you can't afford to drop down in character levels, you instead actually die).
This method of becoming undead is one of the few methods that, by RAW, is not one of the following: Infectious, Transmittable, Spontaneously-Occurring, Forced (if you don't want to become Necropolitan the ritual fails when you die), or Involves Soul Stealing.

Something about ritual suicide involving the rejection of life doesn't lend itself to that particular soul persisting: if it does and you can be a good little boy and go to heavens, what are the dark gods getting out of it? Another ugly creature that's affected as undead doesn't satisfy me as proper compensation. Easier to say they fucking ate it at the end of the ritual. Whether that means oblivion or damnation, I don't know. This is just me filling a gap where we have only stats and ritual with very little lore.

>You're not a monster though, you're an undead person retaining your original personality.
>A monster is a monster is a monster.
Right. So if being a monster has no implications beyond being a monster, why would anyone care about being one?

They're the least undead-y undead that still qualify as undead, just like Elans are the least aberration-y abberations that still qualify as abberations. They're for people who want to be an immortal non-humaniod without the hassle of being something REALLY weird or powerful (eg: a vampire or a lich).

You get the strengths and weaknesses inherent in the type, but almost no ADDITIONAL strengths or weaknesses.

As a necropolitan, you explicitly retain the personality and alignment you had when you were alive. However, you're probably going to have a somewhat flattened affect (due to not having functioning glands). You're also powered by negative energy now, which depending on the setting could mean absolutely nothing, or could mean that your automatically evil and have an uncontrollable unquenchable hatred for all things living, but will probably mean something somewhere in the middle. You have a d12 hit die, no constitution score, so consider pursuing one of the options that let you add your CHA modifier to your hp instead.

As an undead creature, you're now harmed by positive energy and specific anti-undead effects, but healed by negative energy and immune to most specific anti-living effects. You'll be hated by anyone who hates undead (which, again depending on the setting, might be "intolerant bigots" or "completely justified"). If you're reduced to 0 hp, you're dead, and much harder to bring back to (un)life than a mortal would be. You may or may not be disqualified from any afterlife, be sure to ask your DM ahead of time.

Also, the ritual to BECOME a necropolitan is expensive (for a low-level character, anyway) in both gold an xp; as well as very, VERY uncomfortable.

>Easier to say they fucking ate it at the end of the ritual.

Intelligent undead have souls, bruh.

>due to not having functioning glands
They still heal as normal, that's a case for them functioning.

>You're also powered by negative energy now, which depending on the setting could mean absolutely nothing, or could mean that your automatically evil and have an uncontrollable unquenchable hatred for all things living, but will probably mean something somewhere in the middle.
Necropolitans have no alignment bullshit. The sample necropolitan is neutral.

My bad, was think of lich and their soul sack. What if you are still alive past the 24 hour of crucifixion. Also, you being a host of negative energy would not please the druid and ranger for upsetting the balance nor the clerics and paladin.

RAW, becoming a Necropolitan has absolutely no effect on your alignment, which I mentioned. However, this is still very much in "Be sure to ask your DM ahead of time" territory.

A DM who goes full on for the "Hurr Durr all undead are automatically maximum evil" is almost certainly not going to allow necropolitan PCs AT ALL, but you might have a DM whose opinion is somewhere intermediate to these two options.

>what are the dark gods getting out of it?
Funding and advertisement.

>they're taking gold, some crucifixion, a staking, and some chants for no strings attached undeath
Man, I didn't think they'd need gold that badly. Is it greed? Are they secretly poor? Are we removing gold from the economy permanently, as part of some long term scheme to fuck over the world? Are they being forgotten and so need to pull out this gimmicky ritual to get back in peoples good graces like fast food places do limited time food specials?

The god may not want the gold, but his priests sure do. Same way you a neutral party can hire someone to cast resurrection. Clerics are not going to turn away a giant pile of resorces.

why a dark god would sponsor the ritual in general is fairly obvious. Non evil non crazy undead walking around make stuff like undead cities more likely to be accepted. It's great advertising for necromancy and some would consider more undead moving about a worthy end in and of itself.

>This is just me filling a gap where we have only stats and ritual with very little lore.

The lore is already there. If you cast true resurrection on a vampire, they're alive again.

Undead still have souls and still go to the afterlife - though mindless undead do not.

from a fluff perspective, not being fresh... is probably a major down side and the "feeling" of having negative energy replace your lifeforce.

So, a Deathless variant that enjoys more life-like joy with an eternal vigilence/non-ennui/immunity-to-boredom might work. Not far from a classical Deathless ancestors of the Elves, but the -1 level is a step cost when "recently dead" spells can negate even that cost when resurrecting.

> murder hobo

So you're basically an eternally fresh corpse?

>All these people whinging about optimization and arguing over minutiae, missing the point entirely
baka, senpai. I thought these were so cool, especially the city they're from. Looked for more information on it but as far as I can tell it's literally never mentioned again

I'd say the Evening Glory has something to do with it. You know, the neutral Goddess whose whole thing is prolonging existence through undeath.

>wanting to live forever on the material plane
While you get all corpsey I’m going to be living it up in the Chaotic Good afterlife. If you want to find me I’ll be hanging out by the milkshake pool on the lesbian cloud.

>if you don't want to become Necropolitan the ritual fails when you die

Joke's on those assholes trying to forcefully make me into a Necropolitan. I'll just refuse and suffer an agonizing crucifixion instead!

There's a lot of ideas in some of the fluff books of 3.5 that is long buried and forgotten.

The first part of the ritual requires the placement of the petitioner on a standing pole. Cursed nails are used to affix the petitioner, and then the pole is lifted into place. The resultant excruciating pain that shoots like molten metal through the petitioner’s fingers and up the arms is not what finally ends the petitioner’s mortal life, however, since death usually comes from asphyxiation and heart failure. As petitioners feel death’s chill enter their bodies, many have second thoughts, but it is far too late to go back—the cursed nails and chanting of the ritual ensures that the Crucimigration is completed. sounds pretty painfull.

>What if you are still alive past the 24 hour of crucifixion
The magic involved in the ritual ensures that you die at the 24 hour mark (no save).
>Also, you being a host of negative energy would not please the druid and ranger for upsetting the balance nor the clerics and paladin
No more than a dhampir existing would upset them, or anyone with the Tomb-Tainted Soul feat; you're healed by negative energy and harmed by positive energy, but otherwise nothing else about you actually changes the balance of things.

I haven't played D&D in years and I still keep a trove of pdfs from various editions just to plunder for ideas.

The Benefits of Necropolitan are bluffing yourself off as a Gaunt-Undertaker who deceptively looks like fucking Van-Richten of all people, and use of a unique disclipline and series of feats that go towards Undead Creation.

The Negatives are that there are few Undead settings with Established Necrocracies- few people to contact on the matter, you've got to worry about those than can control/destroy undead- and securing spells to resurrect you a as undead which are rarer than the ones that do it normally (Removing your template)- then there's permanent trauma to the mind- and rolling for taint, Vile Darkness and aftereffects of negative energy use depicted in the like of the Complete Book of necromancers.

Also again, shoving nails in your fingers and immediately forging a connection with the Plane of negative energy is literally Identical to how Liches do it- nevermind the technical possiblity for feedback.

On the note of the Template itself- there's an important question- Where the fuck in Dugneon magazine is there any example of one of these things even existing? I get this feeling there actually isn't a single instance in D&D of this Template being used- meaning you can't actually justify having it- in a sense.

Mavet Rev sure as shit didn't have necropolitans.

Oh- right, Nocturnus.
Undead Society: In some places, the roles of living and dead in society are turned upside down. Undead are a part of society to such an extent that they are completely integrated. Undead merchants sell their wares in the shadowed end of the market bazaar, undead councilors hold positions of authority, and undead adventurers seek gold and glory alongside (or instead of) living thrill-seekers. In other places, undeath is the dominant aspect of society. Only the dead partake of the society’s benefi ts, and all the needs of the society are addressed. Farms on the outskirts of large cities do not grow grains, but instead produce living creatures (often humanoids) that feed the undead masses that require life essence, blood, or flesh for sustenance. Unless a would-be member of this society is already undead, becoming a member requires the creature to undergo the transformation into unlife. For example, in a ward of the city called Nocturnus, undead rule. While living citizens from other parts of the city can enter the ward and conduct their business, only undead can claim residence in the ward, and therefore gain the dark benefits provided to ward residents. The living can petition to take up residence in the undead ward, called the Pale, but they must submit to a supremely painful process called crucimigration, which transforms them into deathless, but intelligent, versions of their former selves. (See the necropolitan description, page 115, for more details about this transformation)

Jesus christ, this is it. There's literally NOTHING about this place- It simply doesn't exist- so unless I'm incorrect, as the default D&D3.5 was Greyhawk with the serial numbers shaved off, Greyhawk has Mavet Rev and Nocturnus SOMEWHERE in the setting.

Same. Lords of Madness alone has several campaigns worth of pure fluff.

Libris Mortis where the template is most readily found has some info on a couple of undead cities, but I don't know if they actually exist in a setting or just exist as unattached fluff or examples.

...

Ah- 4e added to it-
In some places, the roles of the living and the dead in society are turned upside down. Undead are a part of society to such an extent that they are completely integrated. Undead merchants sell their wares in the shadowy end of the market bazaar, undead councilors hold positions of authority, and undead adventurers seek gold and glory alongside (or instead of) living thrill-seekers. For example, undead are counted as full citizens in the fell city of Nocturnus as opposed to in Eredu, where they are merely tolerated. Living citizens from other nations can visit Nocturnus and conduct their business, drawn by the liberty of a city in which any sort of activity is not only permitted, but encouraged. In other places, undeath is the dominant aspect of society. Only the dead partake of the society’s benefits, and all the needs of the society are addressed. Farms on the outskirts of such cities do not grow grain, but instead produce living creatures (often humanoids) to feed the undead masses that require life essence, blood, or flesh for sustenance. Unless a would-be member of this society is already undead,becoming a member requires the creature to undergo the transformation into unlife. For the most part, these so-called bleak nations are rooted in evil. By their nature, they revere death, and they allow the veneration of archdevils, demon lords, and malevolent gods. Of course, bleak nations only allow such veneration if doing so does not threaten the rulers of said nation with replacement. In places where evil is thick, gang warfare pitting cambions against vampires can rule the streets, while behind darkened eaves, the initiates of Orcus plot ways to expand their power into the cities of the living. Two examples of such bleak nations are Hantu- mah (page 18) and Nocturnus (page 20).

Anything goes in Nocturnus. What is considered illegal, immoral, amoral, or despicable in other places is allowed in Nocturnus, if the appropriate indulgence fee is paid to the accountants of Nocturnus, who tally up each sin, great and small, and determine its price. All the less savory acts of society occur here, as in any large city, but in Nocturnus, the law permits almost anything, including permitting intelligent undead tohave full citizenship.

Okay, so it went from city of Undead Scholars to 'Hostel: The Town'

A character knows the following information with a successful skill check. History DC 20: When the gods fought the primordials, there were losses on both sides. One primordial fell into the world. Where his corpse slowly moldered and died, a permanent stain formed on the fabric of reality. This stain influences all creatures that reside near it, even millennia later. Most are unaware of the influence, though some creatures are particularly sensitive to it and even derive power from it. A great city grew up around this ancient grave, a city called Nocturnus. History DC 30: Over the thousands of years of the city’s history, the population has ballooned, shrunk, been ravaged by necromantic diseases or curses, and been overrun by invading armies. The city has been expanded, razed, rebuilt, and subjected to various architectural shifts over the centuries. Like its history, the city’s name has varied widely. Now known as Nocturnus, the city has borne many names in the past, including Vilifos, Maladon, Demon-chalice, and Tyran. Streetwise DC 10: Nocturnus is built around and within a crater called the Pit, half a mile across and two miles deep. Four great canyons empty into the Pit. Respected institutions are built on the higher ridges, while the slum wards, the Low Market, the Necropolis, and other establishments that shy from the light are found down within the constantly shadowed walls. Streetwise DC 15: The Lords of Nocturnus each keep a palatial fortress-estate along the rim of the Pit. when formally meeting for council, they convene in a structure built on a precarious seeming splinter of rock that rises up from the Pit, near the west rim. Called the Finger of Fate, this heavily guarded tower
rises hundreds of feet into the air.

The architecture along the rim plateau is grand and imposing. White stonework columns, arches, colonnades, domes, and spires are the preferred decorations for structures inhabited by the minor lords (and their noble families) and guild leaders. Streetwise DC 17: Obsidian sculptures are scattered about Nocturnus and carved into canyon walls, variously depicting angelic or demonic entities. Most sculptures stand 20 or more feet in height and are incorporated into surrounding structures. The sculptures have endured since the founding of the city, and few know their original purpose or the names of the entities the statues depict. Some of the sculptures are warlike, others suggestive, and others sprawled as if enduring heartrending grief. Society In Nocturnus, undead openly walk the streets and hold the highest levels of authority. Government: The seven Lords of Nocturnus rule the city, though they leave day-to-day governance to a bevy of hired civil servants. Each lord is a supremely powerful individual who is rumored to be able to channel the taint that seeps up from the Pit to enhance its already potent strength. Of the seven, at least three are suspected to be undead, including Lord Tantalus, presumed to be some sort of lich because of his skull-like visage. Defense: Nocturnus keeps an army of zombies in the warrens that riddle the earth below it. Few invading forces can stand up to the sheer number of undead bodies that Nocturnus is capable of throwing at an aggressor. Trade: Nocturnus is an open society that has made its name on trade (nothing is taboo), especially trafficking in slaves, drugs banned in other places for the evil acts required in their preparation, and the creation of undead. Culture: Because visitors and citizens of Nocturnus can get away with nearly anything if the proper indulgence fees are paid to the lords, good-aligned folk soon discover that societal rules that define upright behavior are completely absent.

A visitor might become caught up in the “economics of sin” and lose sight of what is truly good and truly bad. She might find herself across the table from an undead card sharp, playing for stakes that include flasks of knife whiskey, a drink that is properly distilled only when mixed with a blade once used to perform an evil sacrifice. Despite the indulgence of the city’s population, evil acts remain evil acts. Though no civil consequences follow evil actions, alignments shift to reflect real actions. Moral ambiguity can blind the incautious until visitors are so deeply ensnared that evil overtakes them.

...

If a genie/god/demon showed up and offered to make me a pretty vampire girl for 12M souls I would become twice Hitler immediately.

Hey now

Who the fuck is still playing 3.5e?

> then there's permanent trauma to the mind- and rolling for taint, Vile Darkness and aftereffects of negative energy use depicted in the like of the Complete Book of necromancers.

>using optional rules and 3pp for 3.5

You brought this on yourself.

...

That girl isn't actually undead, just an Athasian defiler.

Are there any novels / stories that take place within Necropolitan society? I always really liked the idea of an not so evil undead culture.

This guy might be on to something

So it's basically just a generic evil city, except they don't call it evil. That's considerably less interesting than I was hoping for from the snippet in 3.5

Thousands of people. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean no one does.

GP is not pure gold you retard

What edition are you playing?

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