Hear ye, hear ye! I am in need of brainstorming! Come brothers and join me in a state of creativity and thought!
I've been contemplating the 40k metaplot lately and I'm somewhat confused. What happened to the Necrontyr's souls?
Based on what I know, the Warp was calm(er) back when they underwent their unfleshing. I'm also assuming that they lost their souls, as lore claims. I wonder, though, did their souls stay together in the calm warp, or dissolve per modern standard? And if they did stay together, would the souls have been able to do anything? I'm assuming yes, even if their souls were weak like Tau. Weak like Tau souls, too. So, I'm thinking perhaps they began coalescing or working on something, because I doubt they'd be eaten in the ancient calm Warp.
Right now I'm toying with two hypotheses: 1) their souls became the enslavers (which I think makes the most sense) probably to destroy their enemies and betrayers or 2) became/built some Warp-construct/entity thing, but I don't have much to work with here, especially due to lack of evidence of Necrontyr psykers existing, as well as lack of evidence that non-psykers can manipulate the Warp.
And first person to say, "the C'Tan ate them!" gets my foot up their ass, because it's obviously impossible.
>And first person to say, "the C'Tan ate them!" gets my foot up their ass, because it's obviously impossible. Why?
Adam Thomas
How are the C'Tan supposed to eat a Warp shadow, let alone get to the Warp to eat it? The C'Tan ate something, but I don't know what for sure. I'm guessing organic electromagnetic fields or something.
>How are the C'Tan supposed to eat a Warp shadow, let alone get to the Warp to eat it?
Because they can do that. They're not retarded no warp entities anymore.
Zachary Myers
How I interpreted the entire thing happening was the C'tan basically were waiting at the ending of the biotransference machines so that when the Necron's souls were ripped from them before getting to go to the Warp the C'tan would catch and devour them.
The way I understand the C'tan is their only limiting factor is they just can't go into the Warp. I mean I feel pretty certain that the Nightbringer would be capable of slashing a Bloodthirster into two if he wanted.
Brandon Bennett
If they can't go into the Warp, how are they eating souls?
Cooper Clark
C'tan can enter the warp, they just can't will themselves into it. They require a portal to do so, and the Necrontir built them at least one. When the Necrontir made their physical shells, it locked them into realspace.
The prominent theory is that the C'tan are themselves warp gods made manifest (before the current god's existed) and have been traveling around in realspace in their etheric forms. This explains how they can "eat" souls.
Nathaniel Bailey
Does the new lore ever specifically say that the C'tan ate 'souls'? I can only recall oldcron lore using the word 'essence', which could be subtly different
Hudson Mitchell
What if the C'Tan's are blanks?
Cameron Evans
That would actually make sense. The Old Ones did use energies beyond Necrontyr comprehension, after all, but there's evidence the Cron had emotions. As far as I can tell, that requires a soul.
Xavier Thompson
I don't believe so, but a lot of peeps seem to insist that it was the souls that were eaten despite the wording
Isaiah Rivera
The warp has previously been described as anathema to the C'tan, at least in the 3rd ed codex. I don't recall the Warddex contradicting it. Where does this prominent theory come from?
Given how much it seems the C'tan wanted to seperate the material universe from the warp, and how they appeared to loath/fear psykers, that doesn't really make any sense. Helping to either develop or cultivate more blanks in humans came across as a counter strategy against psychic races, with Pariahs being a sort of culmination of millennia long plans. But that's all been retconned now.
It wasn't souls in the beginning, pic related. But I understand that the FFG material somehow muddied that, so who knows now.
Austin Hill
6e Necron codex in the "In the Beginning" chapter. Specifically calls out eating souls and the C'tan being the anathema to the Old Ones.
Prominent as in I have heard the theory from multiple people irl and from multiple websites (not just this one). It may not be the actual prominent theory, I just know that I have heard it multiple times over a course of a few years.
Cameron Clark
The 6ed codex mentions a prior war between the C'tan and the old ones, and that the C'tan had been defeated and so hidden themselves away. I cannot find a reference to the C'tan being regarded as anathema to the old ones anywhere there.
In the Biotransference part it describes the C'tan swarming around the sites where the Necrontyr conversion took place and that they consumed cast off life energy/essence. It might be open to interpretation whether that counts as a soul and if that accounts for what the Silent King regards as the loss of the Necrontyr race's spirit, but the distinction between the two seems apparent in choice of words there.
This will probably read as my own spin on events, but the soulless revelation the Silent King comes to is kind of clear given what we know of Necrontyr technology from both codices: Necrontyr had always been perplexed by warp based phenomena, which is reflected by their constant defeat by the old ones during the pre C'tan stage of conflict. I doubt their science could correctly transfer (or even quantify/acknowledge the existence) of a soul. When the transference happened the Necrontyr truly died, their souls lost forever. The process was brilliant, their greatest minds encoded into undying ageless bodies. But ultimately flawed in that one regard.
Wyatt King
Xenos don't have souls.
Report to the nearest Priest for deprogramming, heretic.
Luke Miller
...permission to request a data expunge, partial controlled memory wipe and surrender of heretical material?
Christian Kelly
Permitted. Don't re-offend, citizen.
Oliver Ramirez
But the Old Ones lost at all parts of the War in Heaven...
Alexander Martinez
I'm actually not so convinced...I have a running hypothesis that there's something a little more...elegent, happening in the background there.
Jackson James
Much thanks merciful one. I shall also turn in the sources of the material to the local Ecclesiarchy establishment.
Sebastian Russell
That came later. Against the old ones the Necrontyr found their technological might constantly outmanoeuvred. They were eventually contained to a few systems. With the 6th ed came the new element that the the old ones and C'tan had fought an even more ancient war before this, again resulting in the defeat for the old one's opponents. The Deceiver tells the Silent King that the C'tan were scattered and went into hiding.
When the Necrontyr made contact with the C'tan, things changed. With the energy gained the biotransference, and new starmetal bodies to focus the nebulous C'tan, the renewed conflictswung in their favor, the new Necrons being subserviant to the C'tan for most of this period.
Austin Hall
They went into slumber after defeating all of the elves and old ones and assumed, due to Orican's divinations, that the galaxy would be cleared of bullshit once they woke up. They just woke up early.
The Necrontyr made contact with the Old Ones before the C'tan, asking for help with their dying sun situation, and were turned down. Then, after finding the C'tan, they teamed up to stomp the Old Ones for being assholes in true knightly fashion: kill them and salt their fields (elves).
Austin Robinson
The reasons for the conflict between the old ones and the Necrontyr are expanded upon further in the 6th edcodex. It was a war of convenience for the Triarch, it wasn't hard for the comparatively short lived blighted Necrontyr to hate the super long lived space mystics. The old ones made a effective enemy for the triarch to galvanize and unite the their race against, to promote unity amongst the warring Dynasties
The 6th edition codex also states that the C'tan and the old ones fought a war amongst themselves long before the Necrontyr rediscovered the C'tan. This predates the war in heaven. Although, this comes from the word of the Deceiver to the Silent king, so make of that what you will.
Robert Gonzalez
The question continues how can souls exsist in the physical realm, one most veiw the c'tan as the choas gods of the physical realm birth by the energies of the initial expansion, which in turn allows them to manipulate the very universe itself to their will.They don't conform to normal laws of physical reality and their main weakness lies in the warp itself but before anything reaches the warp their domain was absolute. Ontop of that the whole reason the c'tan even went on mass murder sprees was to consume souls otherwise they would have just consumed stars as they are much more bountiful energy wise than being of the flesh.It is even outright stated in the books they consumed souls.
Leo Jackson
>It is even outright stated in the books they consumed souls. No, it isn't. It's stated the C'tan prefered to feast on the energies of living beings because they now find the energies of the stars that birthed their race "flavorless" compared to the focused energies of living beings.
So I guess they were feeding on the souls of the stars before?
