Undead PCs

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>1. Convince the Party
I don't murder people or commit explicitly evil acts. I'm lawful evil, so for the most part I am a law-abiding citizen. My brand of evil tends to be amassing wealth and power by screwing people over using contracts, bluffing, and coercion. It helps to have access to a bunch of truth and coercion spells as a cleric. I don't go full evil and they don't have an issue.
>2. Guards and those outside
Disguises and Lectures on relativistic morality. I'm not kidding. High power games + powergamey group = dumped physical stats and maxed mental stats for my char. He's meant to be the thinker/face of the party. My bluff and disguise rolls are almost unbeatable by NPCs and with ranks in profession(barrister) I'm allowed to lecture NPCs on the benefits of undead labour to society if I have to. IRL I'm in uni, so I wrote a short logical position paper (less than a page) on the same topic that my char used as a law-school thesis in the past and that allows me to smooth over any issues I come across that lying can't.
>3. Balance
This one I can't help you with. I went the route of necromancy through the rules and my character isn't undead himself yet... GM still doesn't suspect why I took the vile leadership feat or know of the official occult rituals sourcebook so my advice would be to wait, and have the group raise you as a skeleton champion (or system equivalent) if you die, that way it's all by-the-book and there's no handwaving necessary

Aren't skeletons evil because animated dead are an abomination rather than because of their capacity for evil.

I'm a person who has literally played this character, and loved it. I love skeletons, I really can't get enough.

But despite all that, when I take a moment to REALLY think, Full plate armor for a skeleton is RIDICULOUS. Real full plate is very heavily couched and supported upon key points of the body, key points which skeletons don't really have, at least, there's no meat. So full plate armor for a skelly would be ridiculously involved to make, and probably require some really strange stints and props and straps on the bones to keep it from sagging around. The whole idea makes me laugh inside.

But I do love me some full plate skellies.

Dark Souls?

I really just grabbed the first picture from my skellybro folder. I hadn't quite decided on a class yet as I always focus on the characters premise and backstory before tying them into an appropriate class but more likely than not he'd avoid any heavy armor.

I've heard it argued many ways. I personally have always leaned towards the idea that summoned or resurrected Undead are only as evil as the one controlling them.

In the case of this character, they were of fairly questionable mortality in their previous life (which would tie into the whole not wanting to go back to the afterlife thing if I decided to use that as a motivation) and are reconsidering how they acted and will act now that they've got a second chance.

The thesis bit is brilliant user. Always love to hear people talk about the ways they tackle problems like this in inventive ways.

>1. How do you convince a party of adventurers that you aren't just another monster?

Life and death situation, a friendly monster starts helping or even saves the party from death. Its actions speak louder than words and the party likes the monster immediately. However, be wary of the Poochie effect...

>2. How do you deal with the fact that guards and those outside your party are likely to take issue with you walking around?

Hiding what you are is good method.

>3. How would you balance being undead?

Supernatural realities that don't bother other members of your party, bother you. Running stream? Sorry guys, I can't cross it. Fire? Sorry guys, fire does ten times the damage to me. Silver or cold iron? Sorry guys, that shit is radioactive to my ass.

Two Words

T'lann Imass

>Life and death situation, a friendly monster starts helping or even saves the party from death. Its actions speak louder than words and the party likes the monster immediately. However, be wary of the Poochie effect...

Yeah the Poochie effect is something Id work with the GM to avoid.

>Hiding what you are is good method.

Seems to be the most common opinion I've heard so far. Id be fine with things going south and being revealed honestly if thats how the story and rolls turn out. Probably introduce some fun scenarios to work my way out of.

>Supernatural realities that don't bother other members of your party, bother you. Running stream? Sorry guys, I can't cross it. Fire? Sorry guys, fire does ten times the damage to me. Silver or cold iron? Sorry guys, that shit is radioactive to my ass.

I like this idea. I'll have to do some research into various cultures takes on warding off the undead/dead.

Thanks for the response user.

Currently playing in a party as a ghost, once played as a mummy for 50+ sessions, AMA.

Run it by the DM first. Personally I have no problem with it.

Obviously by real life logic it doesnt make sense, But its a fantasy land with elves dwarves and dragons, i've also seen dm's let magic items scale to match the size of the wearer so its not a huge leap of imagination that a skeleton could wear some full plate armor.

Wasn't there a "good" undead type a couple editions of D&D ago? I can't remember what they were called but I think they were in the back of a Monster Manual type book?

That goes without saying, of course.

Course, I need to actually find a group and a campaign before I even do that. Been outta the loop for awhile.

Wasn't aware of that. I'll have to look into that to see if its true.

>T'lann Imass
They don't hold grudges, do they?

>How do I balance undead PC's?

One of the thing 3.PF does is that most basic forms of undead don't heal naturally. So basically they need a specialized resource in order to heal themselves at all. (Usually necromancers don't have to worry about his, as they come equipped with the means to heal them. However, if you're just a standalone undead PC, you're going to have to figure that shit out.)

3rd Ed had a "Deathless" template that was a good-aligned undead in the Book of Exalted Deeds. Evil clerics could turn them, damaged by holy water, etc.

There was no level adjustment listed for using them as PC's as they were pretty powerful.

As a rule of thumb, if it's good to preserve food, or to treat infection, or to deal with bad odors, it will horribly burn the undead.

if they present a threat, kill them

if they dont, dont

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I mean, come to think of it, even robes would fit real badly on a skeleton. Pretty much any clothing is going to be SUPER strange looking, and even if you size down, its going to be a weird scale.

Speak for yourself, just because there's dragons and elves doesn't mean basic fitting has to go out the window. And any DM worth their salt requires you to get your items sized by a blacksmith. You're right though, its not a huge leap of the imagination.

I like the idea of some form of healing requirement. Would also give me more reasons to interact with NPCs and pursue my own avenues of investigation to make sure I have whatever I need to stay in one piece.

I had someone offer up the idea of retaining the resilience to non-bludgeoning weapons that most systems seem to assign to Skeletal enemies to go with the unique healing requirements but I worry that that might be far too powerful on a PC.

Very cool thanks user.

So you're saying Old Spice Pure Sport HighEndurance deodorant is an effective repellent against the Undead?

Now I'm imagining a skeleton in a latex body suit.

First objective: Make friends with a tailor and a smith.

I think them not dying, is kinda the point

>not just padding your bones with cloth

Doesn't that make you a m-m-mummy?

Nah man mummies are mummified. They got raisin-ified skin and shit under those wrappings. They also SMELL and look silly, nothing like the noble skeleton.

1. "PLEASE DON'T KILL ME PLEASE NO OH GOD"
2. "Oh, so should we leave?"
3. No idea lmao

>it's cold out
>party members need a campfire
>there's no wood around
>they look at you, Mr mummy
Wat do

>Seems to be the most common opinion I've heard so far. Id be fine with things going south and being revealed honestly if thats how the story and rolls turn out. Probably introduce some fun scenarios to work my way out of.

You could get a local church official to recognize you as a canonized living saint. Sent by whatever god to help rid the land of evil. Hell, it might actually make you popular.

Not a bad idea. I hadn't quite worked out what kind of god or entity this one would be but I was leaning more towards a petty lesser god who believes it should be top dog but believes directly interacting with mortals is beneath it, hence raising some poor schmuck to do its advertising for it.

Something to consider though regardless. Thanks for the idea.

There are good liches

>I mean, come to think of it, even robes would fit real badly on a skeleton. Pretty much any clothing is going to be SUPER strange looking, and even if you size down, its going to be a weird scale.

You could also ask how the bones are moving or being held together, but you usually hand wave that because pseudo magic physic explanations are generally boring. Now, I like to imagine reanimated skeletons either have a bit of muscle mass still left on them as rotting flesh, or "shadow" muscle tissue that is invisible to the naked eye, but accounts for their mobility and other questions, like how clothes fit on them properly.

For hiding, you could ask the GM to let you cancel/reestablsih the link binding your bones into a skeleton at will, essentially dropping into a pile of bones. You could then be carried in a number of ways and under a number of pretenses. This would favour classes that are less gear reliant and games that don't reach too high a power level - however, this trick can be relevant until you can establish the power and fame necessary to bypass inconveniences such as plebs giving you trouble.

Toss the dwarf but instead of a dwarf you spend four minutes tossing each individual piece of bone over the wall.

youtube.com/watch?v=h03QBNVwX8Q

Another interesting idea. I like it.

Brings to mind the question of stealth for a skeleton. I imagine a balancing feature could involve a negative modifier to stealth actions that involve trying to move silently.

Ive always liked the latter as it ties in better with the whole arcane/divine aspect.

>Ive always liked the latter as it ties in better with the whole arcane/divine aspect.

Just go with what makes sense for the god in question or your world.

>I mean, come to think of it, even robes would fit real badly on a skeleton. Pretty much any clothing is going to be SUPER strange looking, and even if you size down, its going to be a weird scale.
What makes you say this? There's all kinds of physical depictions of skeletons in robes sand other clothing in the form of Halloween decorations that look fine.

It does seem pretty simple to get something crafted that would fit if there was some problem with how normal armor and clothes fit. Prob cost a little bit less than a usual set of custom fit gear assuming it uses less material.

Not sure how you'd go about getting measurements though. Maybe have the party help out by acting like they want your bones adorned in attire for the afterlife?

>1. How do you convince a party of adventurers that you aren't just another monster?

Dazzle them with a display of arcane mastery.

I play it as a Mormon.

Mormon skeletons knocking on your door, just imagine

Sasuga, Mormonga-sama!

Ten times the reason to kill the skeleton

Necropolitan are neutral.

>Pretty much any clothing is going to be SUPER strange looking, and even if you size down, its going to be a weird scale.
Have you played a video game in your life? The fuck's wrong with clothed skeletons?

Maybe naked skeletons is his fetish, user.

Get killed because I'm completely covered in platemail and have HP for days [if before my transformation into a living/undead hybrid] or get killed by tentacles because I'm literally Alucard meets the Thing [if after].

Based on playing an undead character for a three-year-long campaign here's my advice:

1. You don't tell them for a while and gain their trust through feats of bravery, skill, and benevolence. Always volunteer for watch duty (you don't need to sleep). Make it obvious that you hold a religious conviction, as such a thing might be unlikely for an undead (depends on setting). Be sure that you have a common goal with the party (talk to your GM about this). Be pleasant and outgoing.
2. Don't tell them. Use a disguise.
3. Really depends on the system. My character had issues with magical healing, was always under threat of discovery, and would instantly crumble into dust if he hit 0HP rather than going unconscious.

I kept myself from being discovered by pretending to be a leper. Nobody is going to peel back the hood and layers of bandages when they think you might have horrible diseases. The stench of death is not exactly foreign to people suffering from necrosis, but I also bought a lot of spices and perfume to try and mask it. I still ate and drank, but as a skeleton, you will have some issues with that. Just make sure to excuse yourself often so you can say that you ate, drank, and relived yourself.

>Mr Bones
>non-evil
Pick one

Using strong incense and perfume seems a good plan. Only thing I don't think I could cover up would be direct physical contact from another PC or NPC revealing that I am, quite literally, thin as bones.

Honestly all of these suggestions are very helpful so thanks a lot guys. Hopefully I can find a campaign and see if the DM will let me take a whack at it.

I played an undead character for a while so I'll give you some tips
>Depending on class, always try to be entirely covered, for me plate armor worked however if you are a clothie or similar then wear a mask.
>Hold a faith, after all your PC was raised by a god so I'm sure that could play a part, you could say you where "Reborn"
>Be caring, don't obsess over others but do show care for their well being
>If the topic of food comes up you can dismiss it by saying you are fasting or that you prefer to do it alone due to religious or cultural norms
>If you are a zombie or something similar you can go easy and say you are desiccated, its still a musty smell like that of dust and moisture but you won't stick like decomposition
>If you are rotting, then you might need to make use of perfumes, strong herbs that mask your odor, potions or magical means to supres it.
>If you get discovered somehow... then there's not much you can do save for talking your way out of it or hoping they don't crush you.

I just want to play as a skeleton in a lighthearted evil campaign where we're basically all Saturday morning cartoon villains as a party.

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I ran a zombie in a 40k game. We were basically a band of spec-ops renegades donated to the service of a planetary governor so the actual IG didn't need to give a shit about their little insurrection.

I 'convinced' the party that I wasn't another monster by being a gas-mask-laden trenchcoat wearing sniper with a thousand-yard stare and a penchant for brutality and secrecy that discouraged any attempts to get underneath the clothing. Mostly they just assumed she was some lunatic war vet who rate rations in trees and hid behind boxes to sleep.

Guards outside the party absolutely would have had trouble with my existence, if I'd ever let them know. I think the only person who ever found out - or got a hint of it - was an NPC who may have realized that I didn't speak because one of my lungs was punctured and it was rather difficult to speak with a hole in my chest.

GM didn't care about balance, though I was in every meaningful way a mundane human. I just didn't eat, sleep, and I had a curious ability to regenerate - which nobody knew about because when my arm got completely _shattered_ by a power-armoured person punching me I kept it mostly secret.

No one asked questions about the silent lunatic.

Turned out she was actually a fairly nice woman - prior to undeath. She joined ostensibly to provide for her family in the wake of expenses rising (and her husband having a more lucrative job) and most of the campaign she was following orders explicitly to satisfy her superiors so she could see them again.

Her superiors realized she wasn't... alive, ofc. They just sort of shipped her out because it was a suicide squad of misfits and they wanted her off the planet ASAP. Just sorta flew under the radar from then on, and obviously they were hoping she'd get KIA.

Amusingly I don't think anyone but her handler even knew she was a woman.

Oh, also she bought a cat. And candy for kids.

Source? Who is this skeleton? GRIS was absolutely useless as it usually is.

Try saucenao that's usually the best bet for when I need to find manga stuff

Saucenao thinks it's an erotic manga called Lord of Trash, which it patently isn't, but I'll keep it in mind if I need more manga identified. Thank you.

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So?

If he had a pompadour that hood might not look so goofy

Skeletons have a weird hate love relationship with us. Since we are unique in the fact that a baby can recognize a skull for what it is.

With this instinctual recognition its no wonder some people find them "friendly" or "goofy" in a way because we have this tingling sensation of what they are.

The first two is literally just explained by writing it off as a skin disease or being ugly, hiding underneath rags.
>3. How would you balance being undead?
Simple, don't make them meme strong and instead make an undead, while not needing to breathe, fear fire or dark magics, are generally lacking the vigor and power of life. They have weaker stats than the avarage human and cannot raise them very far.

Another way could be the thing that keeps them "alive". They must consume magic or souls or whatevers rare enough, if they don't they're dead.

I think has a point. All the curves and rounds of the body are non-existant or extremely recessed. Just think of the shoulder. Every piece of clothing would fall awkward. A shirt may even push in below your ribcage.

Just think of videos of extremely anorexic people. No amount of clever tailoring or tricks would make their condition completely inconspicious.

Then they'll pretend to be really thin and starved people. Gives a reason why you don't eat.

>2. How do you deal with the fact that guards and those outside your party are likely to take issue with you walking around?
Heavy armor, or disguises. Shouldn't be too much of a problem unless every guard is a Paladin who uses his divine sense on every person as a habit. If you can pick up a nondetection spell or magic item, that would probably mitigate that possibility.

>3. How would you balance being undead?
Big one is no healing via magic. In 5e, undead can't be cured by Cure Wounds, and unlike Pathfinder, negative energy doesn't necessarily heal undead.

I played an undead PC in 5e, and only being able to heal via hit dice or potions was killer. I did get shit like immunities to poison and necrotic damage and magic resistance out of it, but it was still a pain.

If you are willing to bet your whole unlife on one single con, you better have a better plan than "meh, they'll just assume, I am really starved".
What if someone bumps into you on accident? What if someone takes pity on you because you are just skin and bones and forces you to sit down and eat? Depending on your GM this would end either very tragically or in some weekend at bernies style hijinks.

Being a very high-level adventurer helps, since people fear/respect you too much to come near or treat you willy-nilly. But usually the only thing it takes to reveal you would be a bar brawl where someone throws you over the bar and notices how incredibly ligh-weight you are.

This robed pose skeleton figure looks fine. You've just been debunked.

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