MTG Ask a Judge thread

Avatar of the resolute doesn't actually have a triggered ability (noted by the lack of the words "when" or "whenever"), it has a replacement effect that modifiers how it enters. The point at which avatar checks to see if you have any creatures with +1/+1 counters occurs before it enters the battlefield, and therefore before experiment one even triggers, much less resolves.

ok thanks!

They cannot. Avatar has a replacement ability, not a trigger. This means it will look to see how many things have counters while it's entering the battlefield, which will be zero. After it enters, Experiment One will trigger, but then it's way too late for Avatar to see it.

You know I think I like this explanation more than mine

Let us say I have an Animate Library animating my library, and said library is hit with a Song of the Dryads or Imprisoned In the Moon.
Is it still a library?
If Animate Library gets removed while said library is a land, does the library remain a land (since the other aura is turning it into a land, which is something it can enchant)?
Does one lose for drawing from an empty library or being unable to draw at the beginning of the turn? (the difference could matter if your library gets phased out, and not having one at all compared to one with zero cards)
I'm sorry, corner cases with Animate Library are interesting to me.

If Solemnity is on the battlefield
>Players can't get counters.
>Counters can't be put on artifacts, creatures, enchantments, or lands.
What happens if someone proliferates? because the rules say "give a counter" not "put a counter". Is sligthly different because there have to be a counter there to give another, technically proliferates dont put counters simply add another of a kind. Like if it was a cell dividing itself.

I want to hear this from a judge

Does Knight of the Kitchen Sinks "Protection from Black Borders"

Should the term "BLack Border" be taken Literally or should black border only refer to non-UnCards. If I have a old White border card, an animated borderless land, or I animate my library, how is that effected if it trades with the Knight

Would fumigate/wrath of god kill Animar?

ALWAYS take uncards literally.

not OP but yes

Questions like these make Animate Library the most interesting card in the set, at least to me. The one I'm looking forward to playing with the most is Modular Monstrosity, but I want to know the answer to these questions as much as you do. Here's what we know:

Not much. The FAQ is useless, I think they underestimated how complex this card is. A card being a zone and a creature at the same time is ridiculous. Maro has confirmed that you can still draw from a phased out library, which the logic behind is, I believe, that Phasing only affects permanents. A phased out zone is still treated as though it exists. But it's pretty weird. How can something both exist (the library part) and not exist (the creature part) at the same time?

From my knowledge of the rules, I have deduced some things. Take this with a grain of salt, as this is silver border we're talking about. Nothing is set in stone, nothing is sacred. On to your questions.
1; Library is a zone, while Song of the Dryads and Imprisoned in the Moon only change types, subtypes and abilities. Library is not a type, and cannot be removed by these cards.

2; For this it comes down to the basics of layers. Both of these cards care about card types, so we only need to look at layer four, type-changing abilities. In layer four, before it can apply its effect, Song continuously looks at the thing it's trying to enchant as says "is that a permanent?" and once Animate Library leaves, it gets back the answer "nope".

3; If you attempt to draw from a library with no cards in it, you lose the game. Therefore, if the zone doesn't exist at all, you can't try to draw from it, if that's what you're getting at. Of course, as I said before, phasing doesn't affect game zones, only permanents.

No dice. You're right in that the wording is a little different, but the action is the same. You're still putting a counter on your stuff when you proliferate.

Literally just black-bordered (note that invocations are borderless, as are animated unstable lands.)
The real question is what happens with these two with alters - especially when it's a card that COULD be white or black bordered.

Literally black borders. Check out Border Guardian, as it mentions white borders as well. Does this mean you can sharpie/acetone cards to change their borders? How do they interact with Invocations? These questions I'll leave up to you.

Sure does. Protection prevents four things, which I use the acronym DEBT to remember. They can't be:
Damaged by X
Equiped/Enchanted by X
Blocked by X
Targeted by X
Any cards that don't do any of those don't care about protection.

Man you guys are on the ball today.

Shame on the Library Land question, and I didn't know there'd been further responses involving phasing - last I'd seen, he was thinking of older phasing rules or...something, I'm not sure, but phasing doesn't currently make auras fall off of things...

If you JUST change the borders, then you can still see the set symbol and easily confirm that no, that's not a black bordered Giant Spider, it's from 7th Edition though IIRC the foils were black bordered, it's been a while since I've seen an old core set foil and my memory THERE is fuzzy.
Which is why I wondered about alters that cover the expansion (and the borders), but it seems you don't know either.
Clearly the only solution is to force the owner of the card to truthfully state the card's original border, on pain of testing. Or just assume the most likely printing, I guess.

I was referring to markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/168001018898/how-does-animate-library-interact-with-phasing-it
I hadn't read his other stuff about phasing. Looks like he corrected his original mistake.

Well thats the thing, it literally says "black-bordered", not "from a black-bordered set". My opinion is you have to look at each card, if the borders are literally black then it counts. If they've been acetoned out of existence, then they're not black. But again, this is silver bordered, there are no hard and fast rules.

This, perhaps, is something that needs an official ruling from the Unjudgemaster.

>the guy who is doing his best to ruin magic is on tumblr
people
of
color
me
surprised

Good point. I asked him, hopefully we get a response.

Here's a question for all of you, what do you think about silver bordered cards being allowed in commander for the next month?

WE NEED TO BAN TOXIC PEOPLE FROM MAGIC THE GATHERING STARTING WITH YOU, FUCKING RACIST PIECE OF SHIT

Is it just Unstable, or all silver bordered ones? Because Unhinged and Unglued had silver bordered cards that are just straight up absurdly overpowered and/or require incredibly annoying physical/verbal actions from the players. Unstable seems low key enough that it might work, but I would never allow the other two sets in anything.

Can I Krosan Grip a Mana Echoes + Sliver Queen combo or is it consider a mana ability?

It's an experiment, but usually you ask your group if it is ok to play with silver border cards. I don't really care really.

Frankie Peanuts commander here we go

Frankie is unable to force a concession, and there are ways to fuck with any question if need be.
Remember: If someone uses Frankie as intended, asking questions solely about in-game actions like blocking and casting shit and whatnot, play along with it. If they are an ass and ask out of game questions, like concessions, card giving/ripping, or anything else like that, be an ass back, because they clearly do not want to play Magic.

Here's one that came up last Friday. I have a dude. An opponent steals it permanently (the specific case being Confiscation Coup used on a Ripjaw Raptor). I play Hostage Taker. Assuming the ETB trigger resolves and Ripjaw Raptor is exiled, but Hostage Taker dies before anything else happens, who does the Ripjaw Raptor return to and why? I feel it has something to do with layers, but it just goes over my head.

Also, in a different case, Solemnity does not stop Walking Balista from entering with counters, but it still enters with extra if Winding Constrictor is in play. Both have very si.ilar wording regarding the placement of +1/+1 counters, and I know the rules work as described, but I'm curious as to the why.

The first one I'm a little puzzled on. My gut says you get it, but...

Solemnity:
7/14/2017 Solemnity stops counters from being put on an artifact, creature, enchantment, or land as it enters the battlefield, as well as stopping counters from being put on them later.

I have an Ashcoat Bear in my hand (2/2 flash). My opponent casts a spell forcing me to discard it. Can I play my creature in response and not have to discard anything? If I had more cards in hand, would I have to discard them instead? If it was my only card, could I play it and not have to discard a thing?

If your opponent plays a spell, you can respond by playing cards. If it's gotten to the point where their spell has already RESOLVED and they're looking at your hand and picking stuff to discard, it's too late. If it's just been played, you can play as much of your flash/instant hand as you have mana available - but you'll still have to discard something when their spell resolves.
If the bear was the last thing in your hand, and you cast it in response to their discard spell, then it's the same thing as someone trying to use discard on someone with an empty hand...because it IS someone using discard on an empty hand, now.

Thank you. Discarding and flash/instants have always confused me.

If in response to equipping a creature, someone makes my equipment a creature, does it equip then unattach next time sbas are checked (after the equip resolution) or does it fail to equip. My instinct is the first, because it's not countered by game rules to my knowledge (the target is still legal)

Thanks

Just remember that somebody playing something doesn't mean it immediately goes off. You always have a chance to do something before its effect happens. Unless it has Split Second, but even that has some workarounds.
But once something DOES resolve, it resolves in full.

If I create a copy (either through a spell like Second Harvest or Clone effects) of a token made by Minion Reflector does the copy need to be sacrificed at the end of turn or does only the original token to be sacrificed?

Both tokens, the original copy and the copy of the copy, have haste and "at the beginning of the end step, sacrifice this permanent."

Oops, if you cast Clone as a copy of the Minion Reflector token, it doesn't become a token. That's the only thing that's different about it

If I had a Woodfall Primus come in with persist, can I remove the -1 counter by adding a +1 counter? Or by removing it through an ability?

Yes

Anyone?

It's absolutely not a mana ability. Even though the triggered ability of mana echoes will produce mana in the end the Sliver Queen's ability doesn't and it'll use the stack as a result. Plenty of time to Krosan Grip.

Someone swings 20 2/2 zombies at me when they have Undead Alchemist.
I play Selfless Squire.
What happens?

two different replacement abilities go off. the affected player chooses which one to use first. assuming you choose selfless squire, they tap out and you get a really, really big squire.

Undead Alchemist doesn't see any damage try to happen for its replacement effect to fire, since that damage is being prevented. Selfless Squire gets 40 +1/+1 counters assuming you don't block any zombies.

Thought so. Damn I wish that had happened instead of everyone getting wheeled.

If I had one card left in my library and an effect called for me to scry 3, what would happen? Do I lose the game?

Apologies for being absent today, i couldn't find the thread this morning because I'm an idiot and made a new one.

I'll be honest I'm not 100% sure. My gut says creatures enter under their owner's control unless otherwise specified. i'm about 80% on that, I'll do some google-fu and get back to you.
Solemnity stops Balista from ever getting counters, Winding constrictor has a replacement effect that replaces "one or more" with "that many plus one". Since Balista is entering with zero, Constrictor has nothing to replace.

From the CR: "301.5c An Equipment that’s also a creature can’t equip a creature."
It just never equips. It doesn't quite fizzle, it just does nothing.

Fo sho. +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters anihilate each other one by one until only one type remains as a state based action. Keep in mind this doesn't work on other counters, so your Baron Sengir is safe.

Quick clarification. Mana echoes is not a mana ability, so you can respond to it. Activated mana abilities have three requirements:
1. They must not target
2. They must not be loyalty abilities of planeswalkers
3. They must be able to produce mana

Triggered mana abilitys also have these requirements, plus one more. They have to be triggered from an activated mana ability. This means they're SUPER rare and most of them eventually end up triggering other things that you can respond to, so usually you should assume nothing is a triggered mana ability.
tl;dr - You can respond to both Mana Echoes and Sliver Queen.

These guys are right, but further explanation: the affected player, or the controller of the affected object (in this case, whoever's getting attacked) gets to choose which replacement effect to apply first. Since both of these effects replace damage with something that's bot damage, whichever they choose will stop the second from happening. Unless they wanna get milled out they should chose the Squire to apply first.

If you're told to perform an action you can't fully complete, you do as much as you can. So in this case, you look at the top card and put it on the top or bottom (not that it matters). Same thing with Ponder, athough you also get to shuffle that one card if you want. Its the same if someone Mind Rots you with only one card in hand. Do as much as you can.

You don't lose either, you only lose if you try to draw from an empty library. Looking is fine.

>These guys are right, but further explanation: the affected player, or the controller of the affected object (in this case, whoever's getting attacked) gets to choose which replacement effect to apply first. Since both of these effects replace damage with something that's bot damage, whichever they choose will stop the second from happening. Unless they wanna get milled out they should chose the Squire to apply first.
Are prevention effects actually replacement effects? From what I gathered they seem to be their own thing, but I'm no judge.

Anything that goes "if X, do Y instead" is a replacement effect.

Sure, and Selfless Squire doesn't say anything like that.

You're right - they're not. However, they interact with each other as if they're both the same thing. Check 616 in the CR; it doesn't differentiate between them at all.

"616.1. If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object’s controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below."

It's a good to be thorough, though, this is one of things that confused me when I first started studying to become a judge.

Ok, so the way I'm understanding it:
If I control both Erebos and Rain of Gore, every time my opponent would gain life, they can choose to either not gain the life, or lose the life that they might have gained?

Skyship Plunderer just proliferates on combat damage like Thrummingbird. The key word is "kind," which means that if you have a poison counter and 2 XP counters for each kind you get another of each, bringing you to 2 poison and 3 xp. The wording for doubling would be "whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, for each counter on target creature or player, give that permanent or player another of that kind."

Erebos doesn't have a replacement effect, it's a static ability that changes the rules of the game. They -cant- gain life. Rain of Gore changes lifegain into something else, with Erebos on the field, it has nothing to change.

But if you swap Erebos for Sulfuric Vortex, then you got it - they are the affected player, they get to choose how to apply the effects.

Most replacement effects are worded as "If... instead...". There are a couple other wordings, Clone and Ivy Elemental have replacement effects, for example. Check out 614 in the CR for more details.

>Rain of Gore and Sulfuric Vortex
Well sure, that's just choosing between two replacement effects.

I thought Erebos' was a prevention effect, but I suppose not since it's not using the word "prevent".

I was thinking that prevention effects worked the same way as Erebos' game-rule-changing ability. To me it makes sense that replacement effects cannot modify an event that a prevention effect would stop from ever happening in the first place. But I guess that's wrong.

Yep, prevention effects always use the word "prevent". I see where you're coming from, but prevention effects don't beat replacement effects, and vice versa. You're right that if a prevention effect stops something, it can't be replaced, but the opposite is true, too, if a replacement effect stops something, it can't be prevented. In the end, it's all down the affected player.

New Unstable Card Question

If I have Infinity Elemental and Kresh, the Bloodbraided out, and Infinity Elemental dies, does kresh get the infinite +1/+1 counters?

If so, does the triggered ability ever resolve? Will the placement of infinite +1/+1 counters cause a infinite loop that never ends?

Sure can. The FAQ confirms this.

You'll put all the counters on at once, they don't have to be one by one. I guess the best way of doing it is just using a piece of paper. So you're good to go.

Makes sense, thanks.

youtu.be/-mcngasiX_o?t=1602

when tutoring a land off path or titan can you readjust your decision in this manner? what allows you to do so?

His opponent probably could have pushed it to "no". What I'm assuming happened here was he got the land, then said "hold on" or something similar, implying that he hadn't finished the search. His opponent (correctly) assumed that whatever land he got, it wouldn't impact combat, so he shortcutted and went for the attack, before eventually backing it up when he actually changed the land.

It's a bit of a gray area. If you let a few things happen then change your mind, then no. If you put it down, then immediately change your mind, yes.

That said, I'm only an L1. I don't know the IPG and MTR as well as other documentation.

>Stops Ballista
I think we screwed that up a few weeks ago. Was that specific ruling added after the initial release?

>80% sure
That's where I was at. Gut says exiled things go back to their owner, but effects that only do that (exile then return) usually clarify. Hostage Taker does not. It is, however, modelled with the new single trigger style first shown on Banished Priest, which does have reminder text specifying that it goes back to the owner.

I don't believe so. All the rulings on gatherer about solemnity were added on the same date.

I've found a rule: "610.3b. An object returned to the battlefield this way returns under its owner’s control unless otherwise specified."
In reference to one shot effects that exile cards until a duration. So it goes back to it's owner. Everyone is correct! Horay!