/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

What do you guys think of the argument going on this thread:
forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-classic-world-of-darkness/mage-the-ascension/1133616-remote-sniper-rote/page4

I think that remote sniping thing should be coincidental in most cases.

a) ascension
b) opp forum

so I think it'll be shit.

Stay rad, lads.

Crosssplating was a mistake in the first place. Everyone who visits this general regularly knows it.

I'm glad they made Paradox more streamlined in Awakening 2e, that's all I'm going to say about it.

What vampire clan would Tony Soprano be most likely to be embraced by?

Why embrace him? Just ghoul him.

What is his embrace bringing that ghouling him wouldnt?

/wodg/ game of werewolf when?

Start playing with Tzimisces, they're the best clan

Because Vampire Tony sounds like a fun character concept?

>No actual news on any development, no mention of Signs of Sorcery

If Signs of Sorcery still hasn't been released, with no publication date in sight, and neither Tome of the Pentacle or Fallen Worlds even in first draft, Mage 2e is effectively a one book line for the foreseeable future.

Why the fuck are Changelings so strong after 20th Anniversary Dreaming? With Unleashings and some of the higher levels of Realms they're basically mini mages.

We probably won't see anything for 2e until Deviant is released. People joke about Dave having dumped Mage for Deviant, but it's pretty clear he's actually prioritizing Deviant over Mage.

Is that surprising? New cores have higher priorities than splatbooks for old cores, since it needs a KS campaign for the company to prepare for.

I'm not too messed up about it. Book of the Deceived was delayed by years, so I've grown accustomed to the waiting.

It's not really surprising, and I understand the why of it. I'm not mad at Dave or anything, I'm just impatient. It helps that Deviant seems interesting, at least.

The problem is that there was over a year where nothing was happening with Deviant and Signs of Sorcery still wasn't advancing through the publication process. Additionally, Deviant is now in first drafts with little being done on Dave's end and SoS still seems to be in purgatory. Since Deviant will probably not be released for at least a year or two, Awakening is effectively on hiatus.

For whatever reason, that's either incompetence or neglect on the part of OPP/Rich and/or Dave. It's unnecessarily leaving money on the table, disappointing fans, and lower expectations.

I'm not looking to blame anyone, and am more than used to some delays. I just want the darn book already.

Lack of a Kickstarter fucked mage 2e

They aren't exactly cracking the whip on their Kickstarter projects either. Wraith 20 is still in purgatory as well.

>Wraith 20 is still in purgatory as well.
Who the fuck actually played Wraith?

>Lack of a Kickstarter fucked mage 2e

And Forsaken and Requiem, although the latter has certainly picked up steam over the last few months. If Forsaken get a new developer, it will hopefully follow.

>Wraith 20 is still in purgatory

That entirely because Rich Dansky's personal life trumps Wraith. Unlike M20 and Brucato, hopefully it will be worth the wait.

>That entirely because Rich Dansky's personal life trumps Wraith
Kind of what I meant. Being crowdfunded isn't getting Wraith any special consideration, and it's fallen by the wayside like a lot of other things.

The previews for Wraith were pretty good. Not mind-blowing but very solid.

>If Forsaken get a new developer, it will hopefully follow.

Forsaken would need a new company for it to pick up any kind of steam.

How would you go about setting up a campaign of 'Superbros: The Befriending'?

That is, a werewolf centered storyline involving protagonists of as many different gamelines as you find reasonably possible, focusing on them somehow managing to get along and protecting their territory from all manner of threats?

I wouldn't even bother, there's no inherent worth or potential to crossover that justifies the massive dumb headache it is.

>werewolf centered

Why do people TRY this fucking trash idea? NO other splat can interact with the shit werewolves constantly need to in more than the most basic capacity, except Spirit-focused mages, who are better at werewolf stuff than any pack of werewolves could hope to be, including turning into a fucking werewolf.

You cannot cross those streams. It just fucking sucks for everyone.

Any good songs for True Fae? Preferably something that could be interpreted as being sung by one.

I've tried doing two different crossovers
The first was a Vamp/Wraith, and it ended up just being a Vamp game
The second was Werewolf/Mage, and it was actually tons of fun. Yeah the mages were more powerful, but not infinitely so (they deliberately avoided powergaming) and good times were had by all

>they deliberately avoided powergaming

>Short Bus Wizard

I know, right? If you aren't abusing the system at every turn (still sticking to the letter though!) and browbeating your ST into letting you do whatever you want, you aren't playing the game right.

Just yesterday I took part in a crossover game that worked fine. It's been pretty great as far as WoD games go, actually.

Apocalypse or Forsaken?

Anyone has the combo disciplines from ST vault?

I can share Rose City by Night.

Haven't we discussed this topic to death though?

Used to be we at least had a consensus about this.

>thinking it's impressive to manage to bend White Wolf/OPP's broken-ass rulesystems over a barrel and rape them bloody

There was a time when everyone seemed to know that this wasn't an accomplishment, wasn't interesting, and was most importantly not conducive to storytelling. Almost every single game line was able to produce at least one if not a score of recursive dicepool-building loops that would render you unstoppable, unsoakable and godlike in the original games, similarly guarantee exceptional success in CoD 1E, and now unstoppable in 2E, especially with Mage.

Now you've got slack-jacked autists shitposting bait about how if you're not breaking the system then you're a clown and you need to stop playing the game. That's not storytelling.

Is the meme to allow these people to shitpost because it's 'funny'? Ignoring them does not seem to be working, lads. It's one thing to understand and use the system well, but it's another to go full munchkin on it. Anyone can do that. This has been known. It's just not interesting.

>Not interesting to you

Who cares what you think

They aren't interesting to anybody except white-room autismos who never play the games in question. If that's you, begone.

>Now you've got slack-jacked autists shitposting bait about how if you're not breaking the system then you're a clown and you need to stop playing the game
Care to point out which post, specifically?

The overwhelming majority of /wodg/ seem to hate Apocalypse, so probably not that.

Just look at the last thread.

Really? I was under the impression that changelings were among the weakest of all the WoD/CofD splats; basically just larper elves. I wonder what changed?

That's news to me. I thought Apocalypse was one of the most badass games WW had done.

>The overwhelming majority of /wodg/ seem to hate Apocalypse, so probably not that

Good DMed game of Apocalypse > Good DMed game of Forsaken > Ecoterrorist captain planet game of Apocalypse > Insolated spirit cop´s game of Forsaken.

>Apocalypse was one of the most badass games WW had done

If you're a Nordic white supremacist or eco-terrorist...

People like that Forsaken did away with a lot of the weird furry stuff Apocalypse had, as well as tribes like the Black Furies.

Giovanni? They bring in other families sometimes, they could do that to his. Or, more likely, they just intermarry with them.

Bad opinion, they're great as antagonists but subpar as NPCs.

He's right you know.

Apocalypse has the potential to be much better than Forsaken (if you focus on playing child soldiers fighting an unwinnable war) but it's also much easier to fuck up (if you play furry captain planet), Forsaken is always kind of ok setting-wise.

>People like that Forsaken did away with a lot of the weird furry stuff Apocalypse had, as well as tribes like the Black Furies.

But they didnt replace them with anything. Kinda like removing your leg but not even giving you a peg.

*subpar as PCs

Which only mattered if you held anything in Apoc as something worthy to hold on to.

I don't really understand what you mean. Are you saying that Apocalypse stood on its weird furry stuff and shallow, stereotypical tribes? And that by doing away with those things, Forsaken has less to stand on?

>And that by doing away with those things, Forsaken has less to stand on?

They did away with the "shallow" stereotypical tribes even though the politics between them was pretty good. Did they replace them with better tribes that have good conflict politcally? Nope, the Forsaken tribes are even more shallow, just a tag line and something you kinda wanna hunt, no politics conflict with them because Chrod is deadly afraid to "limit dms".

So its ends up as "Shovel heads Sabbat pack: the game"

now
sendspace.com/file/upcp08

>Nordic White Supremacist

I'm sorry, who are you referring to? Sounding a little revisionist here.

Personally I just don't find anything remotely compelling about Apocalypse. The Tribes are all shallow cultural stereotypes, the lore is both convoluted and generic, and the neo-luddite furry bullshit is dyed into the very bones of the lore. I also hate the idea of werewolves as the good guys who fight for Gaia, it's just... cringy as fuck.

In Forsaken being a werewolf actually feels like a curse. The tribes are somewhat vague but they're at least not as embarrassing as the ones in Apocalypse. The lore with Pangea and the sordid division between the Forsaken and the Pure is far more compelling to me than the incredibly, aggressively luddite shit with the weaver, wyrm, etc. I feel like Forsaken just does werewolves much better, in that they're actually werewolves, rather than... fucking earth warriors. It even does the futile war thing better with the Pure.

Hi /wodg/ I just ran my first game in ages last night!
I forgot how much it takes out of you, but I really like the characters my players have made. I picked the right group.

Why don't you give us a rundown of what happened?

Better than dissecting flimsy mechanics and claiming ultimate superiority as a result all day.

I wasn't aware the Sabbat were primarily concerned with balancing the spiritual and physical world in their territory, or that they were at all about finding ways to keep their predatory instincts and rage in check. Or carefully setting down terms with other packs in order to fight the much more dangerous religious fanatic werewolves that want to kill them.

In fact, they seem like the opposite of that.

>putting shallow in quotes like they aren't actually shallow
>"i can't flex my brain for two seconds to figure out how groups with clear mission statements might react to each other despite the book actually telling me how they do anyway"

>says he ran a game
>doesn't post a storytime

ayo homies can white people become kuei jin? does they gotta die in china for it to happen?

>I wasnt aware that Sabbat pack were a bunch of murderous idiots with rage problems that form insular cliques staying trap in their turf fighting another bunch of murderous idiots with rage problems with no end goal in sight beyond last longer than the other idiots. Or not getting killed by other monsters. With the only difference that at least the Sabbat kills their enemies and don't pussy around with made-up non-sensical rules so the DM doesn't have to constantly make up more name enemies for the PCs to kill.

There fix that one for you

Thank you user.

What splat, user?

3/10.

Trying too hard.

I had this strange dream about an interesting monster A soul thief who lives in a maze where space-time is all fucked, stores people's souls in puzzle boxes and turns the soulless husks into creepy golden knights. Should this be a Mage or a Horror? Idigam maybe?

>>I wasnt aware that Sabbat pack were a bunch of murderous idiots with rage problems

False equivalence, the Sabbat are about indulging their predation and rage whereas the Forsaken are about trying to come to terms with it, keep it in control, and use with positively in their lives.

>form insular cliques

You realize the Sabbat have a huge hierarchy right? The idea that they're not actually just edgier Camarilla is mostly Sabbat propaganda.

>no end goal in sight beyond last longer than the other idiots

This sounds a lot like "I don't know how to work with the material to present my PCs with a goal." FFS you realize that just like the Garou, the Uratha are fighting a war, right? They do actually intend on winning it at some point.

>With the only difference that at least the Sabbat kills their enemies and don't pussy around with made-up non-sensical rules so the DM doesn't have to constantly make up more name enemies for the PCs to kill.

...Werewolves in Apocalypse have the same fucking rule of not generally killing other werewolves when they're beaten. Is this selective memory or just complete inauthenticity I'm reading here?

Just like in Apocalypse, the rule can be bent and broken, and what "don't murder each other" means is often interpreted differently by different tribes/lodges/packs. Though it's worth nothing that it definitely means "murder", not "kill."

Now, now, user. He might just have legitimately shit taste.

True Fae.

You could fluff that as just about any CofD big bad. Abyssal, True Fae, Horror, Idigam, a particularly unpleasant Angel.

>This sounds a lot like "I don't know how to work with the material to present my PCs with a goal." FFS you realize that just like the Garou, the Uratha are fighting a war, right? They do actually intend on winning it at some point.

That's not actually true in second edition. The pure are crippled because 1 dot merit doesn't really compare to the lack of lunar gifts. And as the OPP is too lazy to release the pure gifts they are at a disadvantage. Even the Core book mentions it in passing statting that Detroit is one of the few citiess controlled by the pure. The Pure, as of 2nd edition, arent "winning" anymore.

Could be a lot of things. Although personally instead of a Mage for the Mage interpretation, I would say a Bound of Space and Death? Or you could say an Abyssal, but Bound hardly ever get any love.

The Pure don't want cities, they control almost all the country territories. Cities are the unfavourable territories that the Forsaken have been forced into. Yeah, they lack lunar Gifts, but they outnumber the Forsaken heavily.

>...Werewolves in Apocalypse have the same fucking rule of not generally killing other werewolves when they're beaten. Is this selective memory or just complete inauthenticity I'm reading here?

Thats not true. Forsaken says the people dont kill the people. Which applies to Forsaken vs Forsaken and sometimes the Pure.

That said surrendering doesnt enter in there except in marginal cases with the pure.

On the other hand Apocalypse has "Accept an Honorable Surrender" which means in honorable duels, they should accept it. However that implies the enemy surrenders. If the enemy doesnt surrender or enter Frenzy you can kill them and thats legal.

With the BSDs, there is no honorable to them and they are executed on the spot.

They were prior to 20th, but 20th gave them a massive buff. Wyrd gives them exploding dice for everything, lets them soak lethal (putting them above the other more human splats in that area), and lets them cast cantrips without any Glamour cost whatsoever. And Unleashings were lifted from Dark Ages Fae whereas previously they only had cantrips, so now they basically have mage powers within the purview of their Art and some semblance of reason.

Naming is also ridiculously powerful. The fifth level is meme magic. Pic related.

>Forsaken says the people dont kill the people

It says murder, specifically. Or rather that's what the First Tongue word means. Killing in battle is fine, killing after surrender or for other reasons is not. It additionally doesn't say "werewolves don't murder other werewolves", it uses an ambiguous term that can be taken to mean people or tribe, so even then many packs don't consider it to apply to the Pure.

How would you stat a mob of 25-30 rioters in OWoD?

I'd just treat it as a series of rolls to run away or fight your way through or whatever, there's no point trying to either give each rioter stats or give the whole mob a shit ton of actions

>The Pure don't want cities, they control almost all the country territories. Cities are the unfavourable territories that the Forsaken have been forced into. Yeah, they lack lunar Gifts, but they outnumber the Forsaken heavily.

I find this incredibly problematic in Forsaken 2nd from a ST perspective. Forsaken packs are already overpopulated as of now. Assuming a typical PC packs with 3-5 Urathans, plus 3-5 Wolfblooded and then 9-15 humans per chargen. That's between 15-25 character just to represent the average forsaken packs.

As an ST I have to make the same number for nearby packs (or give the PC a weird advantage) and then I gotta double that for the Pure. Seems to much NPC bloats. I will stick with 1st edition packs.

>can white people become...

Unless the white guy is gay or transgender, he cannot truly be magical. For heaven's sake, this is WW.

You don't necessarily have to fully stat every single wolf-blooded and human associated with werewolves. As long as you know the values necessary for their interaction with the PCs you're fine.

Mage
Which is why the right group is so very important.

Listen pal

Alright, so this was only a half session. Light with a lot of social so that the players could get the feel for their characters. Find their voices, you know? The scene is set a month or two before the actual game will start, at a party hosted by the Silver Ladder character's foster cabal to celebrate her full official induction to the Ladder.
Our characters are:
>Seven. An androgynous 18-year-old Adamantine Arrow from the streets. Socially awkward and constantly ready to fight. Wants payback on their shitty sister. Introduces themselves as "I'm, uh... [Mentor's] kid." They're not. They meant trainee.
>Kherty. Another street kid, this one a 20-year-old Arab Guardian of the Veil. Cheerful and friendly, does his best to get along with people. Homeless because his mother is poor and he doesn't want to be another mouth for her to feed. Has a horrifying amalgamated ghost cat familiar in the body of a cat he rescued from a burning kitten mill.
>Dalia. A 22-year-old college senior who is expected to inherit her family's company when she grows up. Silver Ladder. A mature almost-adult who is stunned by the rest of the cabal's inability to function in normal society. Head of her sorority, wants to be more than just an heiress. Her mentor is one of the city's Councilors.

Oops the rest of this is too long.
Con't in next post I guess.

There is a lot of general socializing. Seven spends most of the time stuffing the finger food into their face until their mentor forces them to go interact with SOMEONE. They meet up with Kherty who they knew before they both awakened. An amusing interaction along the lines of
>"What the FUCK I thought you were dead"
>"Well, I was but then I wasn't"
occurs. Evey other interaction Seven has lasts the minimum possible amount of time before they find an out and fuck off. Eventually, they just dip from the party altogether and go smoke a cig they stole from their mentor in the backyard.

Kherty tries to interact with people and it goes generally okay until he mentions his order, after which almost every conversation takes a nose dive. His only interaction with Dalia involves accidentally knocking over her drink and getting her a new one. Nothing super eventful about this other than that his player was taking notes on every NPC he interacted with for future reference.

Dalia does her best to keep the party running smoothly and everyone happy, but generally just ends up getting pushed around from one mage to another by people more important than her. Notices Seven stealing food by putting it into their pocket without even a napkin around it and decides to get them some tupperware instead. Is asked by Seven's mentor to give it to them directly and talk to them a little because they "have a bit of trouble making friends". The Dalia is nervous about talking to this homeless tough and Seven is nervous about talking to a cute girl. The conversation is incredibly awkward.

Seven smokes a cig with the Hierarch, but doesn't realize it because he doesn't give his name and they're completely oblivious to politics.

>forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-classic-world-of-darkness/mage-the-ascension/1133616-remote-sniper-rote/page4

Look at those Ascension fags arguing over HAP HOP HIPPITY HOP shit.

Glad Awakening got rid of that shit.

Sounds like a fucking soap opera. Pls stop

Listen, I get that you like your mage superheroes doing cool shit but this was a session specifically designed for them to find their character voices.

>instead of replying to a request about storytime with "Nothing interesting happened" i spew the >contents of my stomach over the screen.

Next time, spare us.

Okay

Anyway let's go back to fighting about how easy it would be for mages to make all the other splats suck their dicks.

All you need is a Mind or Life 3 spell.

Sorry.
Here, let me make it up to you by telling you that in the solo prologue session I had with Kherty he tried to take on a Banisher single-handedly and got the stuffing kicked out of him.

ugh why are they so pozzed.
like I can live with the he/she pronoun switching and diversity insert characters.
but then they do stuff like writing a whole refinement in zie/zhir third person pronouns
or writing the ghoul family breeding with out using the words man and woman,
but use shit like "person with a uterus".
it just becomes too much.