So what is a good fantasy game with classes and skills that isn't dnd?

Shadow of the Demon Lord

Very solid little system. I've used it a good bit.

drivethrurpg.com/product/140238/OneDice-Fantasy?src=also_purchased&coverSizeTestPhase2=true&word-variants=true

I strongly recommend Iron Kingdoms. It's set in the same setting as the Warmachine tabletop game, but don't let that deter you. The setting ranges from mid-industrial-revolution all the way to bronze-age, due to the centralization of technology and magical knowledge. You can run just about any kind of adventure or campaign you want. Tobacco baron hiring thugs to break up a worker's union on his plantations? Ancient crypt filled with traps and zombies? Corrupt noble needs a robbing? Pirates? Monsters? Religious upheavals? Invading armies from beyond the borders of the known world? Elves being dicks? It's all available.

Class wise it's simple. Every player chooses an Archetype (Strong, Smart, Dexterous, or Magical). Each adds a minor benefit, but unless you pick the Magical archetype you can never be a spellcaser of any kind (Arcane or Divine. Sorry, them's the breaks). Then they pick TWO classes to start with. Mix and match to your heart's content. Individual classes may have some restrictions (no being a priest of two different gods, etc)

It's really a *VERY* solid system once play begins.

>drivethrurpg.com/product/140238/OneDice-Fantasy?src=also_purchased&coverSizeTestPhase2=true&word-variants=true

What youc an tell me about this

>It's really a *VERY* solid system once play begins.

I'd disagree with that. It suffers some very hefty issues from it's wargame starting point.

>Def is a god defence.

Most of the wargame ways to get around high def don't exist in the setting in any real amount (Electroleap) or they are completely non-intuitive from an in-character perspective (Throwing grenades at your own buddies back to catch the dodgy guy in the blast)

>The skill system is borked.

The numbers on this one just really don't add up at all. Stealth is basically impossible in even the lightest of armour and interrogation literally doesn't work to the point they invented an ability for the menite guys most likely to do it to bypass the actual skill system entirely.

No, it can do basically anything you want. It's a super versatile system. It can do kick in the door dungeon crawling as well as political subterfuge as well as S&W style economic shenanigans.

^
Cannot recommend this enough.
Shout out to my boy Chad for introducing me to the system.

Nice, simple and robust system. 1d6+mod vs target number. That's pretty much it. Point buy. The classes are minimal and can actually be ignored. No caster supremacy issues that I've ever come across, either. Magic can give a few headaches once in a while, of course, but that's just the nature of the beast. You don;t have to worry about it running over your campaign, though.

Started to give you a PDF of it but I realized it's watermarked. Sorry. Still, for that price it's not exactly a big loss if yo uget it and don;t like it.

(OP)
(You)
If you like something a bit more complex I can also recommend Torchbearer, based on the Burning Wheel system. It's basically a crunchy narrative game (Yes, I know that sounds like an oxymoron.) that works surprisingly well. It want's you to do things in a pretty specific order and manner, but that manner an order wind up doing a very god job of giving you the feel of classic dungeon-crawling RPG-ing.

And, finally, if you're willing to forgo your "no D@D rule", Microlite20 and Lamentations of the Flame Princess are both good.

Does it have enough dept?
Whats so good about microlite20? i already play some other osr

If you mean tactical depth, I think it does. I'm definitely more into narrative than simulationist games, though, so you'd have to read it for yourself to see if you agree. Sorry.

Microlite20 isn't OSR. It's basically a stripped down and revamped version of 3.X that gets rid of a lot of the bloat and does a pretty good job of balancing the classes. It's not flawless but it works well, and it's compatible with any 3.X creatures and adventures. I only offer it as a possibility because it's easy to use and learn despite being D&D, and the compatibility means that there's a LOT of shit out there that you can use with it. Basically, any 3rd ed, 3.5 ed or Pathfinder product. And, it actually does feel different in a number of ways from it's parent system. Again, not flawless but good.

You can get it free to check out for yourself online.

>and have it not be too unbalanced

Only if you pay very careful attention. This is a point-buy generic system. You can break them by looking at them funny.

I have this idea that in gurps pc are made of mantequilla(butter) and die easily

I really like Strike!

SotDL is also pretty excellent.

It varies. By default they're pretty fragile, but it's easy to build them to be quite durable. It favours gritty heroism.

What is good about strike! really?

4e related shit looks so cryptic to me

Strike has good combat but pretty terrible non-combat.

Name two systems that have good non-combat.

Ryuutama

And that's the end of this thread.

Wushu and ...In Spaaace!

I like the character creation, especially that it decoupled fluff from classes almost entirely, and focuses on mechanical identity instead. Leads to fairly unique characters.

The non-combat isn't great, but it does its best to be non-intrusive. Also, you can replace it entirely with basically whatever you want. I mean, I know that's not a glowing review of that part of the system, but I never found it held me back.

Looking at Wushu, I can't even see any non-combat, just very narrative, but still combat-combat.

It does share some similarities with Strike!, like not giving a fuck about being simulationist by assigning modifiers to things like weapon choices etc. though.

In Spaaace! looks like a fun system. I quite like using tokens instead of dice. Did want to do something like that with it.

Unironically GURPS and FATE

...IN SPAAACE! is great. One of my top five. There's another game usinbg the same system called Dinosaurs... In Spaaace! that's rather fun. It's basically a world where all those goofy 80's conspiracy theories are real and it's your job to deal with them.

It's only mentioned in passing but Wushu's non-combat works just like combat. Instead of describing the physical actions taken to gain dice (I draw my pistol, spin around, and unleash a circle of lead...), you describe the social/verbal actions. (I give a slightly derisive laugh as the senator finishes, saying, "That's all well and good, sir, but these photos (+1D) of you drinking (+1D) with these underage girls (+1D) in the back of club Fukyerkareer in Moscow on the Kremlin's dime (+1D) says that you aren't exactly a man to be trusted.

The brilliance of Wushu is in the conceit that, no matter what, what you say will happen. The dice are only there to tell you if what you did actually progresses the story or if it just adds to it.

Call of Cthulhu (simple and efficient skill tests).
Other than that I am seconding

>Call of Cthulhu (simple and efficient skill tests).
>the "roll it and figure it out yourself" approach
Neck yourself.

This. Its got a few issues like fire damage being powerful as all hell but you can just house rule that

Myhtras with Classic Fantasy module.

Are you new to roleplaying? Do you have trouble interpreting what a successful Library Use/Psychology/Listen skill check means? Ask and we'll help you.

Could you give this poor babbi a link? I can't find the core and i'm in dire need of spoonfeeding.

>GURPS
>CoC

Literally just "roll vs DC" binary pass/fail mechanics. May as well have said D&D.

Confirmed for never having played GURPS. Go fucking kill yourself.

Except the probabilities make more sense than in D&D, which is why they have introduced bonded accuracy in the latest D&D edition - they realized how bad it was. Also, you have no leveling in CoC, skills climb with use and due to the way skills progress, the progress curve becomes flat rather quickly on high skill levels.

It all just makes more sense than in D&D.

Admittedly, I have only given it a cursory read, and decided I don't actually want to play this.

But please, explain to me how 3d6 rolling under is so much different from d20 rolling over.

>Except the probabilities make more sense than in D&D, which is why they have introduced bonded accuracy in the latest D&D edition - they realized how bad it was.

Bonded accuracy made the probabilities WORSE. Your trained guy is now only 20-25% better than an untrained nobody at the beggining of the game, and it takes like 4-5 levels to improve that. The scaling is also all out of whack with the character's non-skill scaling; you go from being able to defeat 1 orc to handling 200 of them, but you still can't jump twice as far, let alone 200 as far than when you begun your adventuring career.

> Also, you have no leveling in CoC, skills climb with use and due to the way skills progress, the progress curve becomes flat rather quickly on high skill levels.

That is the progression system, not the skill system, which is still just boring old 1 roll binary pass/fail as D&D, or in other words, nothing special.

>But please, explain to me how 3d6 rolling under is so much different from d20 rolling over.
It's not, he probably didn't understand what you meant at first.

If you reduce everything to its absolute core, of course, "it's all just a dice roll" in every game... GURPS core mechanic 3d6 roll under is of course no different than d20 roll over (except for probability curves, which is in itself a major point). But if you actually want to talk about the rules themselves, GURPS has rules a lot of non-combat things, including but not limited to:
-Inventing stuff, crafting prototypes and refining them
-Enchanting
-Army management
-City management
-Organizations
-Hunting, farming, survival
-Navigation
-Medical treatment
-Building
-Taming
-Politics & propaganda
-Jobs and hirelings
-Finding a buyer/seller for something
-Pulling rank

Also it has reaction rolls, which is basically used when trying to persuade people or when you want to know someone's disposition toward you. It's not a simple 'roll under', the number you get determines his reaction (there's a table for this).

Skills have no objective value in those games. They rely entirely on GM fiat to function.

>"it's all just a dice roll" in every game...
There's already been 3 games mentioned in the last 10 or so posts where that's not true, and the skill system is quite meaningfully different from "roll vs DC, binary result". Even just making the result non-binary (like PbtA games) does that.

>non-combat subsystems
GURPS is a great resource whenever you want to do any of those, but the central skill system itself isn't anything different.

Anima

In my honest opinion they fucked up real bad when they made D&D5e.

See, in CoC every character you create is a human. An (more or less) average specimen of the human race. All the challenges they face are more or less 'mundane' (you never truly face supernatural challenges, because if you do you're about to die. A person can't simply punch lzthlkna of the Hundred Thousand Mouths to death). At the end of a campaign, they may be better at what they do, but they're still human. The same threats pose roughly the same difficulty. Thus, bounded accuracy makes a lot of sense.

In D&D, you begin as barely above the average person, but the whole point of the game is to grow in power by acquiring more levels. As you grow in power, you can face stronger threats. At 1st level, you fight goblins, while at 20th you'll be fighting demons and dragons bigger than a house. Yet, for some reason, they decided skills shouldn't really scale that much. The wizard goes from shooting a few sparks to conjuring a rain of meteors, but the rogue has barely increased in skill, and can merely open more difficult locks. It feels like you should be able to do crazy shit at high levels, like lifting mountains and jumping on clouds. Meanwhile, the 20th level wizard can go against a group of goblin naked and unarmed and just punch them to death, because he's got enough HP to tank their puny daggers for a while. Yeah, HP!=Meat Points, but still rustles my jimmies.

Yeah, basically that was my point.

You fight better than Beowulf, but you sure as hell can't hold your breath as much, or even use weapons as big.

>which is still just boring old 1 roll binary pass/fail as D&D, or in other words, nothing special.
>t. hasn't looked at CoC 7E
Anyway, for many skill checks, binary pass/fail is exactly what you want.

/thread

>t. hasn't looked at CoC 7E

True. What changed?