"hey lets play this new rpg"

>he can't create these either before hand or on the fly
Shit gm detected

Notice how the poster count didn't go up with his post.

I may be shit but i don't always have enough time for prep work. The more i have to start with the better for me

I'll give it a read. I've had fun with Primetime Adventures and I believe that has less pages in its rules.

Reading 50 pages is what? Hour and half? Probably shorter than chargen for D&D (assuming you use splats and optimize). I say give it a chance so you can objectively judge it a garbage rather than baselessly assume it a garbage.

>Hour and half?
it's a game manual not zein und zeit

>hands me a 300 page rulebook
>200 of those pages cover rules for four out of the twelve classes
This again, huh.

This is the most russian of images.
>Alchohol in plastic bottle
>Cheap, ugly plastic taple cloth
>Cheap lighter implying there's a plastic box of tobaco and make it yoursell cig packer of camera
>Tatoo's
>Cat
>Depression
You'd only need an ugly, fat strong woman in a totally not burkha and those little dolls and it would getting into stereotype territory.

>"hey lets play this new rpg"
>hands you 600 pages pdf
>"h-hey where did you go?"
>"Hello? Anyone..?"
>...

>the one guy in the group that read an article online about why your system of choice is shit
>he keeps bringing up new, "better" systems all the time
>he never wants to GM
>on the rare occasion he does, it's a fuckhuge system that no one wants to read 400+ pages of just to "try it out"
>nobody else has a problem with the current system

>"Hey lets play this new rpg"
>Hands you 25 books, each about 600 pages each
>"We'll start playing this week"
>"Have your characters in before then"

Is this a serious campaign or a goofy one-shot because we just finished an arc in our main campaign and are burnt out?

Cause we've had some pretty great oneshots with terrible systems but the long-running games are always either Shadowrun 3rd ed or Pathfinder

So let me get this straight:
You can't make setting yourself, you can't make equipment, you can't make NPCs and you can't make creatures...
... and you are still GMing?
Why? And I'm asking 100% sincerely here. If you can't make a game, why are you trying anyway? It's like trying to bake Sachertorte, only that you can't bake, have just a microwave in your kitchen and bought a pre-made powder mix for brownies, since it had a dark cake on the picture.
If you can't GM, you don't buy stack of books that won't teach you anything at all, you simply take a seat as player.

>hands you a soft cover book that has less then 50 pages.
Plenty of good systems can have their rules in much less than 50 pages.

If anything, no system that can't explain its rules in less than 50 pages is good.

Personally, I would say 20, but plenty of systems are designed for completely green people, so it hits 50 in no time.
But if the basic essence, the lite version or pocket edition or whatever it's called is longer than 50 pages - something is off.

Awesome. I really love short-form RPGs.

Seriously, playing a new one-page RPG every weekend was one of the best things my group has ever done.

>Play a game without having to read 100+ pages means the game is shit.
No, it means that you're a bad player.

>"hey lets play this new rpg"
>hands you a leatherbound tome with nearly 1000 pages
pemex route

>You can't make setting yourself, you can't make equipment, you can't make NPCs and you can't make creatures...
... and you are still GMing?

Are you dense? I never implied such thing.

I can make equipment
I can make npc
I can make creatures

Even on the fly

But that's not the point you dumbass

Having ready to use stats are for time saving: it's easyer to jury rigg a pre-esistent creature stat to what i need than came up with something out of the blue already well rounded. I can do that, but, since i have a fucking life, it may happen that i don't have the time to fucking homebrew the shit of a whole setting you dumbass

Tldr: you're a dumbass

>I can do that, but, since i have a fucking life, it may happen that i don't have the time to fucking homebrew the shit of a whole setting you dumbass
We are going in circles here:
If you don't have time to do prep for games and inventing them, why are you GMing?
I mean it's 2-5 hours of sitting, thinking and taking notes, EVEN WITH ALL PUZZLES PRE-MADE, to create a coherent scenario, decent hooks and all the NPCs for most basic scenario. And you apparently don't have that kind of time. So why bother GMing, especially in your GMing boils down to playing other people games, only "run" by you? And I'm already making a generous assumption you are not running pre-made modules too.

tl;dr - why you bother with GMing?

And by puzzles I mean game elements, not a problem to solve

Well guess what, I work 8 hours a day on a production line, I've got wife with whom I spend most of free time, got pretty large group of friends and colleagues I interact with regularly and I also jog 16 miles daily (going for 20).
And somehow I find enough time almost each day to shitpost on Veeky Forums for half an hour and in entire week enough time to prepare next game for Saturday, while running them in my homebrew setting.
What was your excuse again? Lack of time? Or lack of will?

>I mean it's 2-5 hours of sitting, thinking and taking notes, EVEN WITH ALL PUZZLES PRE-MADE, to create a coherent scenario, decent hooks and all the NPCs for most basic scenario

Exactly my point dumbass, it's less work out of the total. Also yes, even premade modules are also time saving.

I gm because i like to play and i'm the only one in my gaming group willing to do it, but i won't to invest all of my free time into a single hobby

Not him, but unless you are living in Nowhere, Kansas, you have literally no fucking excuse to taking player seat and find new GM. Not to mention the perfectly fine practice of hot-seat GMing, so each scenario is run by different person from your group.
Instead, you prefer to buy stack of books and keep bitching how you don't have time for this. Well, do you have times for reading through textbooks on how to run a game?
Seriously, what's wrong with people like you? Not having any fun or call in GMing, yet doing it, under some retarded assumption that "b-but someone has to". Yeah, someone who can and enjoys it, rather than being the elected/self-declared martyr that will GM for the group, because "someone has to".

You still didn't answer my question - why you even bother?
You don't have time for this, you obviously don't want to run homebrew (since you don't have one nor time to make one), you are apparently forcing yourself to GM at all... what's the point?
No game is better than bad game.

>Instead, you prefer to buy stack of books and keep bitching how you don't have time for this

Still making a lot of assumptions here.

I don't need a fucking library for gming

But i will gladly welcome a game manual like wfrp 1e: with 350 pages i have a well defined setting, equipment, bestiary and even a fucking module (The Oldenhaller Contract). It's not that complicated you dumbass.

Also i gm because i like it, but i also like to paint, to play my sax, to go out with my friends, to spent time with my girl, etc...

reeee how dare you

>I like to GM
>I need a 350 pages of text to run a game
>Using provided module
Going back to original baking analogy, you are still trying to make Sachertorte happen with microwave and powder mix for brownies. And I honestly and sincerely don't understand why you are GMing in such configuration. Good for you, I guess, if you actually enjoy it.

>you are still trying to make Sachertorte happen with microwave and powder mix for brownies

And you still assume that this is my only way of gming: i do homebrew, i do make my settings, i du make my npcs, monsters and stuff... but that is not always the case. Sometime i need an easy setup for gaming (because, me and my friends had a fortunate opportunity to play within a short period of time, or because i'm undertaken by commitments and so on...) and between an half assed rulesystem about 30 pages of nothing and a solid game manual filled with everithing a will need i will obviously choose the latter.

What do you find so complicated to get again?

>What do you find so complicated to get again?
This bit?
>an half assed rulesystem about 30 pages of nothing
Cause it sounds like you never played any game that was just consisting of most essential shit and instead assume you are suppose to fill a 300+ pages of things all by yourself, while still paying someone money for "only" 30 pages

>play DnD 4e (yeah I know, I know)
>skim through core and player's handbook
>able to play, have some fun, nice characters and group

>few months later
>we get a side group going with fewer players and another GM
>one of those faggots makes a dragonborn ( he is a friend but he also is a shitter)
>faggot tells me how I should read the "Dragonborn autism manifest", the book about Dragonborn lore. Because muh immersion and I don't know
>I'm just a PC not even the fucking GM

OKAY. I get it WotC and the like have to flesh out the world and cash in on your autism. But seriously, why not develop this shit together while we play. I know you and your friends can come up with a better backstory for Dragonborn than shitters of the coast.

>literally judge a book by its cover

>tfw secretly relieved when several party-members have to cancel at the last minute and the whole session is cancelled

>This is the most russian of images.
I disagree good sir.

Hey now, Fantasy Flight Star Wars is pretty great.

>Not a single pickled cuccumber on the table
I call fake!

It's there in the sandwich, you just have to take me on my word on that one.

It looks like a Bic lighter. They come far cheaper than that, friend.

>Everyone misses the point of rpg rulebooks

Most of what you pay for isn't actually the hard rules. Most books for RPG's come with a fair bit of fluff mixed with artwork, as well as a lot of concepts for things GM's can do.
take Dark Heresy, if you wanted to condense any of its books until you just had the rules you absolutely needed to play the game you could, but they come with a nice bit of artwork and concepts for creatures, campaigns, etc. None of this is vital to play, but it can be good inspiration for a game master

I don't know a single system that requires reading 400+ pages to run. Not even Shadowrun, any edition.

Also, nerds LOVE trying out new systems. Try-hard-wannabe nerds don't.

Get-a-load of this moron. What the other user is referring to is a solid frame of reference. Sure you can make shit up. And then you decide to buy a pre-made adventure and realize that your townguard have been too week and your magic artefacts too strong and you have these inconsistencies to gloss over.
Never mind that quickly homebrewing means reinventing the wheel from scratch when a paid professional may have carefully crafted sensical statblocks with much love and effort. But let me guess: you think writing down a good statblocks takes no longer than 30 seconds and who cares anyway, right? Anyway, congrats on your homebrewing skills: I suggest they might be shoddy and amateurish.

Finally: By having a common frame of reference you can talk about other people who play the same game and you understand each other's adventures much better. It creates common ground within a game's community and that's great.

>Most books for RPG's come with a fair bit of fluff mixed with artwork, as well as a lot of concepts for things GM's can do.
What if I care for neither of those?

Because you do realise there is such possibility... right? That people might not be interested in the slightest with pre-existing fluff and just need solid ruleset

Just because you are shit at making things up and preparing scenarios doesn't mean everyone is, mate.
Reading you both made me realise something. That to even notice the difference between running your own games and the "setting mania", you would have to be past your 30s. And I don't mean this as a jab or sarcasm, but the stark realisation the entire industry went chin-deep into providing settings and obsessing over them in early 90s, so there was barely any alternative present on the market, leading to situation where you literally can't work without those nowdays, because you never even experience other state of affairs. You've been - utterly unintentionally - conditioned into taking pre-existing setting for granted and using modules as something neutral and not the height of cheapest GMing.
And it's pretty depressive, because it means the times when people cared more about the adventure at hand and not the background setting are long gone.

Do you even play generics anymore? You know, games that by default come with no setting, because they are designed for completely different purposes?

I always GM under the assumption that the players haven't read the rulebook. I give them a digital copy ahead of session 0 if I can, but I never expect them to read it.

If I don't feel I can guide players who haven't read the rulebook through character creation, I don't run the system.

I will read through the rulebook whenever playing in another GMs game.

Oh my god stop strawmaning!

>Do you even play generics anymore?

Yes! I do!
I fucking gm gurps: I did an alternate historical old west campaign (finished) and an alternate historical pirate campaign (still in course). I also done a gurps conan campaign but i think that doesn't count by your standard.

I also happened to use brp to gm an horror campaign and a stormbringer one (from scratch because the ken st. Andrew's manual sucks balls)

But that doesn't invalidate any of my statements: when i did such games i had plenty of time.

I had also i fucking badass game with wfrp: starting with the included module i evolved the story with minimal effort... and was still awesome, one of my player favorite game

>less than 50 pages

Men & Magic only had 38 pages. Although if you take the single volume edition edited by Greyharp, it's 82 pages.

Time to bring this thread to its full potential. Post Rpg's with less than 50 pages

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>it takes him 90 minutes to read 50 pages
>it takes him 90+ minutes to create a D&D character

how do you even figure out how to turn on your PC? Does it take you a quarter hour to remember which button to press?

help me out guys.

>tfw the system we're using is 22 pages long

>Just because you are shit at making things up and preparing scenarios doesn't mean everyone is, mate.
>time doesn't play no part in producing quality content
You sure showed me, bud.

>using modules as something neutral and not the height of cheapest GMing.
For me only the quality of what comes out matters, not how much effort or originality I put into myself. Great ideas for adventures are rare, that's what makes them stand out. Inbetween it makes more sense to run with great ideas of others and adapting them to my campaign rather than going with my own okay-but-not-amazing ideas.

>And it's pretty depressive, because it means the times when people cared more about the adventure at hand and not the background setting are long gone.
You're reading way too much into this. I am in my 40s, I started gaming in the mid 80s.

what game was that?

I've got the quintessential 32 pages, and I say it could be cut down to 20.
Ultra-Lite it literally one page.

Imagine having such shit opinions and being so insecure about them.
Like he said, just because you are shit at making and running games doesn't mean everyone is.

Eye of Yrrhedes.
Four stats/skills (they are very vague), 2d6 rolls, 3 tables to resolve things based on those rolls, example of combat, example of non-combat activities, table for scaling magic vs difficulty, done.
12 pages in total.

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>Imagine having such shit opinions and being so insecure about them.
>Like he said, just because you are shit at making and running games doesn't mean everyone is.
I'm just less arrogant about the creativity and good ideas of others. It's like recommending that we should listen to music other than pieces we have composed and performed ourselves.

So, yeah, if scum like you calls my opinions shitty, I feel flattered.

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Still crying? It's like you are personally offended or something, you stupid piece of shit

...

Know a guy who run this as special ops game.

And while it's 79 pages long text, this is how D&D started.
Modern DnDrones probably wouldn't even touch it.

I would also gladly post pocket edition of The Witcher, but the file is slightly above 9 MB, and we are at 8 MB limit.
Either way, it's actually longer in digital version, because it adds bunch of pages with shots from the TV series. Still below 50 pages

>REEEEEEE LET ME BE SHIT GM
Fine be me, you know. It's not like I'm in your group and have to endure your antics or inability to run games on your own. Just don't try to pretend you are not god-awful at this or that people shouldn't look down at you with contempt and you've got yourself a deal, mate.

Nice remote diagnosis, Dr. Faggot. It's time for you to end it now.

This is the kind of mature quality conversation I come to Veeky Forums for.

>Still replying
>J-just stop
How new to anonymous Tibetan internet tapestries are you?

All pleasure on my side. Not my fault he wasn't lurking long enough.

So? First few editions of D&D were all around 80 pages long and it was all in soft cover until Lorraine came in and doubled the price tag by adding hard cover. You can tell whatever you want about her, but she knew how to squeeze every cent from this business.

just think of all the fun you and your group will have house-ruling the fuck out of literally every aspect of your new game

i daresay after two years of your own rules and revisions, you'll be able to completely throw out that softcover set of training wheels

i'm crying from laughing at reading this - thx, user

I always imagine that Violence was created as a parody. Because there is just no fucking way this was written with the idea of being serious... right?

Fuck, I've posted wrong Waterwold...

I remember a picture that has two dudes in track suits, and flat caps squating while having a smoke in the middle of the street. One of them was haldong a bottle of liquor, oh and there were two dogs having sex in the background.

There's literally nothing wrong qith having a 400 page book or a 20 page book. Both are good in their own way, and neither is inferior to the other.
While you may prefer something, it's not necessarily better.

Wow what a crappy selection of spells ... how can people even play this ""old school"" crap?

Poor bait, friendo.

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Care to tell us more? I find this intriguing.

>Geiger Counter
A-user, don't bring that up here...