I have a couple conventional aircraft questions. If I want to bring along conventional birds, Karnovs for the lack of better options, do I need vehicle bays, aerospace bays, or straight cargo tonnage? Given that satellite reconnaissance is as unwelcome in BT as a tax audit, what are some good choices for recon birds? Does anything tourney legal beat a lance of Ferrets?
Ryan Nelson
So I made a bunch of mechs a long time ago named after Roman Republic soldiers, I added fluff to them and redesigned them They're still shit, but hopefully this'll spark some interesting discussion for this thread.
My idea is that they're made by a medium sized company on the border of Lyran-Periphery space called Vespasian Drive Yards, founded by a group of people who used to work for other, bigger companies. They decided that the Periphery was a gold mine opportunity, and started to cater to them specifically, manufacturing and selling industrial machines and vehicles to them at competitive prices. They then got the brilliant idea of making their own Battlemechs, seeing how lots of Periphery peoples use outdated or second hand 'mechs, or are forced to hire mercenaries. They thought they could corner the market by producing cheap, reliable 'mechs with a support infrastructure their customers could use. Thing is, they aren't too great at the whole "designing killer robots" thing.
Here's the Velite, their first experiment with the Battlemech project.
Matthew Morales
Vehicle bays or cargo tonnage, you can't put them in ASF bays.
IIRC you can put conventional fighters in ASF bays but you can only launch or recover those in atmo for the obvious reasons.
Michael Reed
Vespasian Drive Yards also tries to find a balance between building cheaply and quality products. They usually try to design their blueprints with the hope they can build it using common materials and stuff they can get on sale, since lord knows they can't pay the bills with how cheap their mechs are.
After the release of the Velite, Vespasian Drive Yards was surprised how well it did. Seeing this as a sign that they were on to something, they immediately began to design their next battlemech: The Hastati. Envisioned as a light brawler 'mech, it is intended to go toe to toe with light mechs and act as a gunboat of sorts, with its powerful PPC.
The Principes was a lazy design Vespasian Drive Yards came up with, with the intention of being a true brawler, with a larger weapon loadout and more armor. Thing is, they fucked up with the heat sinks: They loaded on too many weapons and didn't have enough heat sinks to balance it out. People who buy the Principes are strongly encouraged to be vigilant in their heat tracking.
I may work on a missileboat mech called the Triarii, basically a poor man's Catapult.
I just did this because I'm bored, and I like to think that by the time the Clans are invading, Vespasian Drive Yards are either on the edge of bankruptcy, or have been bought out by a larger company. After, of course, trying to capitalize on the fact the Periphery is fucked and trying to sell them stupid deals like "buy three mechs, get one thirty percent off!" "For every one thousand dollars you spend, one hundred goes to Rasalhauge and their war effort!"
Henry Williams
isn't putting the ammo in center torso just asking for your pilots to die?
Julian Gray
Nah dude, you're goin' too fast for motherfuckers to hit you.
also the only reason why Vespasian Drive Yards are shit at making battlemechs is because Im dumb and cant make a good mech for the life of me so I ironically pretend its shitty for fluff reasons.
Oliver Campbell
There's a mech just like that but better called the vindicator.
Easton Sanchez
Yes, that's the point. Please pay attention.
Michael Myers
I did but if you want space rome there is an entire faction of that.
So I'm lost when you literally have space rom who makes there own mechs and better mechs.
I get your bored and not shaming you for OC just pointing out it's kinda an odd thing to pick picking a flavor that's covered.
Jackson Wilson
Not him, but what's odd about it is the CT is the most heavily armored part of a 'Mech usually, so it's technically the safest place to put it. Issue is, because of how the dice rolling works, and the fact that the TAC on snakeeyes exists, it's actually a bad idea. But in-universe, nobody's seemed to notice that 1 in 36 shots seems to always find a crack or chink in the Ct armor, no matter the size or damage capacity of the weapon that fired it. Sure they understand "crit seeking" in terms of sandblasting exposed internals, but the TAC isn't something they really "plan for". It's just one of those instances where fluff and mechanics don't get along real well. Course CASE should have always been a thing, with Star League CASE basically being CASE II. But that's just my opinion.
As far as these machines are concerned, I have a few critiques. I think if they are trying to appeal to the Periphery, that the Velites would drop a Medium Laser in favor or a Flamer. Or, the two MGs on one arm in favor of an SRM2. The reason being is that most troops in the Periphery are conventional in nature, with lots of infantry. So a walking warcrime is a great idea, and having a variety of ways to do so is good stuff. It could basically be marketed as a fat Wasp that's way better, if more expensive. The Flamer is because it can use it to kill infantry, vees, and set screening fires, as well as burn shit on raids. The SRM2 adds that utility at even more range, plus the added bonus of not being crap against 'Mechs. I realize MGs are cheap and spamming them feels "PaF", but really what that market would want is a generalist that can do as much shit as possible on the cheap. The Hastati and Principes would be more likely to have Large Lasers (or a demand for them), because they're cheaper, more useful overall, and really the Hastati is just a not!Vindi. The Principes has some promise, since 4/6/4 55t machines are rare. It's actually pretty good.
Dominic King
i meant isn't there a rule where ct ammo explosions just outright kill the pilot no matter what?
Adrian Sullivan
Not to mention that noplace does he mention the Vindi in there, and yet drawing the obvious comparison gets him salty? Feh. Also Autocannons are way more cost-effective than a PPC. AC/5: 125k Cbills. PPC: 200k. Ammo per ton? 4.5k. So it'd take a good long while to buy the ammo necessary to cause the AC/5 to cost the same as a PPC, or for the PPC to offer any savings at all. Not to mention maintenance woes. ACs are more reliable and easier for dirt farmers to keep running, hence why the Vedette and Scorpion are so ubiquitous.
Jackson Parker
this is about as good as i can get introtech/non-fancy/standard shit only 10 ton ultralights. almost maxing out the armor tonnage is probably not the best use of stuff but whatever. at this point i only had one ton for the weapons load so it became a medium laser
New Mek IS unofficial 10 tons BV: 258 Cost: 781,660 C-bills
Movement: 6/9 Engine: 60 Heat Sinks: 10 Gyro: Standard Gyro
Internal: 19 Armor: 40/41 Internal Armor -------------------------------------- Center Torso 4 6 Center Torso (rear) 2 Right Torso 3 5 Right Torso (rear) 1 Left Torso 3 5 Left Torso (rear) 1 Right Arm 1 2 Left Arm 1 2 Right Leg 2 4 Left Leg 2 4
Weapon Loc Heat ---------------------------------------- Medium Laser HD 3
Anthony Turner
Yeah the issue with Ultralights is they can't carry enough armor to matter. So speed is the better option, and that they can get, but with crappy armament. It's why Protos are so great; they combine the usefulness of BA with the cost of an Ultralight.
Henry Edwards
>I think if they are trying to appeal to the Periphery, that the Velites would drop a Medium Laser in favor or a Flamer. Or, the two MGs on one arm in favor of an SRM2. The reason being is that most troops in the Periphery are conventional in nature, with lots of infantry. So a walking warcrime is a great idea I was going to do a variant that had nothing but flamethrowers, but I like your idea better.
>The Hastati and Principes would be more likely to have Large Lasers (or a demand for them), because they're cheaper, more useful overall, and really the Hastati is just a not!Vindi.
Good points. I was originally going to go with a large laser instead of a PPC, but I felt that since the PPC had 2 more damage than the Large Laser it would be more bang for your buck.
>Not to mention that noplace does he mention the Vindi in there, and yet drawing the obvious comparison gets him salty? Feh.
But I'm not salty. You talking about his guy ? I'm not him. Some other user.
>So it'd take a good long while to buy the ammo necessary to cause the AC/5 to cost the same as a PPC, or for the PPC to offer any savings at all. Not to mention maintenance woes
Very good points. I only wrote these three up this morning. I think I'll redesign the three I have now. Get rid of the PPC and replace it with a Large Laser(I already have a Hastati variant were it takes an AC instead), and add a SM to the Velite, and make a variant with just all the flamers.
>H-He's fast!
Isaiah Watson
You want more like a 9/14 movement profile on an ultralight. This one is basically a bug but with all bug problems even more so
Camden Ortiz
>But I'm not salty. You talking about his guy ? I'm not him. Some other user. Ah,sorry about that. Seemed like that kind of defensiveness would come from the creator, not some rando user. My apologies. Glad I could help. I like designing 'Mechs along a similar vein to what you're doing with these, so much respect. It's not easy to do something new and also reasonable via fluff AND effective without coming across as cheesy. >Mako I dunno much about the Mass Effect universe but the FWL would probably take a few. Half ton Infantry Compartments aren't very useful though. You can drop the Searchlight and give it the quirk instead, and add a half ton of infantry capacity.
William Williams
And that's why I'm salty they are Clan only, it would do wonders in resource straped IS worlds or the periphery, but no, it's a new toy for the clans.
Sebastian Moore
Well, honestly I'm kind of surprised the IS hasn't figured out a new way to go about making them, given how you pilot Quad BA like the Sloth. Just... scale it up.
Camden Gray
what are bugs and what are bug problems?
Adam Bell
Every time I try to make that point here I'm shot down with Dwarf units and other stuff. I want my Scope dogs damit.
Jordan Howard
I feel like the IS should get 2-5 ton superheavy BA as it's proto equivalent rather than direct copies
Julian Davis
I dunno if you'll ever get Scope Dogs but you could get a new breed of Quad Ultralight that basically gets the advantages of the Protomech with the ease of construction of an Ultralight. Quad only because of the direct importation and implementation of the Sloth piloting system, slightly upscaled. Still have to lie down, so no proper cockpit,but not quite as cramped as a Proto, so normal sized people can pilot it. Maybe they always have to have the equivalent of a Small Cockpit, which means it cancels out the Piloting skill advantage Quad 'Mechs get, in favor of the "near miss" hit category that Protos have. Something like that. And they can only mount weapons in the L/R/C torsos; no head or limb mounts.
Jeremiah Reed
>he doesn't know about the beauty that is the Mako
This is what peak engineering looks like, you may not like it, but this is the perfect vehicle.
William Gonzalez
>what are bugs and what are bug problems?
I'll take 20-ton mechs with insectoid names (Stinger, Wasp, Locust, Flea, etc.) for $200, Alex.
They have *really* weak armour and (usually) piddly weapons to boot. You best defense is the movement modifier you make your opponent suffer when you go fast. If he hits you with just about anything, expect it to damage your internal structure.
Ayden Foster
I'm all for it. Apart of CGL fuckery and Grogs, why can't we have it?
Holy shit I forgot about her. I remember the one forum mod being super weird about her... Peacemaker on LOTB... also her name is Stephanie IIRC. I can't remember what I need at the grocery store, but somehow this is still in my brain.
Leo Sanchez
yeah, that was more just introtech version of an ultralight. here's one that takes advantage of endosteel and xl engine and ferro fibrous armor.
faster, and with a 2.5 ton weapons load for people to fuck with.
New Mek IS unofficial 10 tons BV: 182 Cost: 970,860 C-bills
Movement: 9/14 Engine: 90 XL Heat Sinks: 10 Cockpit: Small Cockpit Gyro: Standard Gyro
Internal: 19 (Endo-Steel) Armor: 41/41 (Ferro-Fibrous) Internal Armor -------------------------------------- Center Torso 4 6 Center Torso (rear) 2 Right Torso 3 5 Right Torso (rear) 1 Left Torso 3 5 Left Torso (rear) 1 Right Arm 1 2 Left Arm 1 2 Right Leg 2 4 Left Leg 2 4
Noah Anderson
hmm. looking at it again if tonnage is the only concern, then probably make the walk speed 10 and up the cost to 1,000,193 cbills as the next rating up xl engine is the same tonnage
Caleb Perry
I was replaying ME recently and every time I hopped in this thing I thought about the Kanga. Would be interesting to refit it as a kind of engineering team/recon vehicle, though the hover movement seems like a big hindrance for a general purpose exploration vehicle.
Jaxson Bailey
>no vehicular JJS
I BET THE REAPERS DID THIS
Landon King
Felt like tossing my hat into the Bug 'Mech ring. The idea is that the Hornet was found lacking in speed, making it poor for recon work, and unable to break engagement with enemy units to utilize its LRM effectively if cornered. To fix this issue, more speed was added at the cost of armor and jump capability, and to add flexibility to its mission profile, the secondary armament was exchanged to an SRM2 and ton of ammo. Unfortunately, the other big shortcoming of the Hornet was a lack of hands and arms, which the Darter does nothing to address, hurting potential Periphery sales. Still, it can offer minor fire support, has adequate speed for a scout, and can battle effectively against infantry and light vehicles if need be, as well as set strategic screening fires for larger fire support units, making it a great addition to a fire lance in a pinch. Its variants also give it additional mission capabilities. Roast away.
Ian Morgan
so if you're selling things to or making your own periphery state or burgeoning empire, what are some design benchmarks you wanna hit?
second question: what changes and what does that do to your benchmarks if that state/empire is a clan/is integration thing (like escorpio imperio or snow raven alliance or just buying a shitload of stuff from the seafoxes or whatever)?
Cooper Watson
>Roast away. Your description paints this as a Hornet variant, not a brand new chassis and designation. What's that about? Shouldn't this just be a Hornet?
Carter Davis
Well, replacing an engine is expensive, and for something so light and cheap, a redesign to address potential failings seemed like it made more sense than trying to shoehorn a Panther engine into a Hornet. Why is the Venom not just a Spider with Pulse Lasers?
Dominic Cox
Honestly? Avoid Battlemechs unless you inherit a planet with an existing factory. Vees are way cheaper and can do most of what you need done. At least, for the latter part of your first question. For the former, you want something that fills a niche, and does it well, and cheaply. Reliable parts, ease of use, low cost. Or as many of those options as possible. That's why so many Star League design flops are so comical; who the fuck thought anyone would want the Charger? For the same price you can buy a lance of Bugs that are faster and do the same job, and don't have LTV 400 engines that are insane to try and maintain and get parts for. Sure it's beefy and has great armor and punches from the punch dimension but as a recon unit it's wasteful as fuck. So avoiding that kind of thing is ideal. If it's something Mercs would like, you're on the right track. To answer the second question: you have to use what you've got. It's funny you mentioned the Snow Ravens; I wondered why they never did pic related even though it would make a ton of sense.
Jack Wilson
>Why is the Venom not just a Spider with Pulse Lasers? Because the chassis is actually different. It was based on the Spider but it changed entirely underneath, including tonnage and everything.
The Dasher seems far closer to its progenitor. Engine changes aren't unheard of (the Charger, Banshee, Cyclops, and other mechs prove this). If all this is is an engine and weapon change, I don't see why it needs a unique designation. Reserve that for an actually new chassis, especially since Dasher is a decent name.
Julian Barnes
The engine swaps you mentioned were mostly donwgrades; smaller engines are easier to strap into a larger bay. Up-engining something is much more rarely done. I realize that the Venom weighs 5 tons more, but it was more the question of derivative design. I actually had the Dasher at 25 tons to start, with more armor and a Small Laser, but I decided it might make a fun Bug so I re-jiggered it. Wonder if I made the wrong call.
Jacob Martinez
>Dasher Dammit, meant Darter. Dasher is the Clan Omni. You said it and you got me to do it to.
Carson Morales
>Why is the Venom not just a Spider with Pulse Lasers?
Because it's five tons heavier. Also, Darter is way too close to Dart.
Chase Ramirez
Hey, you asked for feedback and I'm giving it. If it changes tonnage, that means the chassis itself has to be different and that would warrant a new designation (unless you want to cite the Rifleman II, which changes tonnage and is still considered a Rifleman variant, for some reason, but that's such a strange case we can probably ignore it). You want the Dasher to be a Hornet-inspired mech and not just a Hornet variant, change the tonnage accordingly. Also, give it a hand (literally, give it one hand actuator).
Josiah Roberts
You forgot the Jagermech II which also changes tonnage while being a variant. Probably the inspiration for the Rifleman II being treated as it is. There's another one or two examples that are escaping me at the moment. There's some other examples of chassis being used for different weight machines too though the designations are different.
Adam Davis
hmmm. so i suppose the hurdle for me is i don't know what mercs like.
Sebastian Lopez
The 3050 Spider upgrade has a pair of MPLs.
The point of the Venom is to tease Drac players with the thought of an 8/12/8 quad MPL unit and then crush their hopes by giving it SHS any way.
Evan Jones
I'm not hating on the feedback man, just making my case. No sweat. I can put it back to 25 tons, though that strikes me as not as fun overall. Though one has to beg the question why the Stinger and Wasp are different designs and not variants of one or the other, in that case. I guess it's just a "just because FASA did it doesn't make it right or okay" sorta thing, which is fair. Making it 25 tons makes it do two things as well: divorces it a bit more from the Thorn (a 'Mech I totally forgot about when I made the Darter) and makes it a reasonable replacement for the Sling, which basically can't exist without its advanced tech.
Brandon Turner
Right? That SHS shit was so goddamn stupid. "Hurr we need them for our Aerospace stuff durr" what kind of joke is that? Especially when DHS were one of the first things that went back into production.
Zachary Jackson
Mercs like affordable, easy to obtain and repair mechs.
With a strong preference towards energy weapons that don't need ammo, or weapons that you can get ammo for anywhere like SRMs or RLs.
Jack Russell
More like the point of the Venom was that FASA fucking forgot where Tematagi was.
>Sounds Drac to me!
Liam Ortiz
huh. so most of that is quirks. does megameklab do quirks or is it just something i gotta write down ad keep track of?
Dominic Baker
No, it means you need to decide on your timeframe. And you'll probably want to focus on units that are introtech or advanced tech at most.
Dominic Foster
the time-frame i've been looking at in my head is the current time of 3150 what the fuck is happening and people struggling to make their own empires now that the big boys are sorta hobbled by the lack of hpg's. seems like the perfect time for a periphery state or empire to try to make a name for itself and grab some shit, and also a time where clan remnants and stuff are dispersing and integrating with their places, so i could have my own escorpio imperio somewhere. or pirates. or merc organization. or something.
Luke Russell
Problem with 3150 is that everybody's production capacity has been raped down to nothing ESPECIALLY in the periphery, and armies are even more retardedly tiny than usual
Thomas Richardson
Yeah, you're kinda fucked.
Charles Ward
oh? i thought that was just jihad stuff and people have been recovering through the republic sub0era and now that dark age is happening people have workable militaries again. not the best, but workable
Isaac Howard
How many of the Mechcommander 1/G pilots are known to have survived up to 3067 (besides Rooster)? I'm going to start drawing tonight but my autism demands that I include stats and text blocks with them.
Isaac Torres
please elaborate, i wish to learn more
Lucas Stewart
how are any of them known to have survived?
Chase Nelson
Lolno. Even by 3145 everybody's militaries are WELL below even 3025 sizes (except for the quadrifecta of wank, of course) and even those unit counts are universally understrength and counting combined arms. Somebody did the math and IIRC there's less actual mechs active than were in the 3050 AFFC alone
Dominic Campbell
>one has to beg the question why the Stinger and Wasp are different designs and not variants of one or the other This is because of a Macross side-story, right? The one with two engineering firms competing for a military contract?
Kayden Adams
3145 is coming along on the tail end of not just demilitarization of economies, but also a big bunch of fighting.
There aren't a lot of factories up to making anything other than Industrialmechs, much less proper Battlemechs.
Isaiah Turner
That side story came out like twenty years after the Battletech one. Both are based on the one real life fighter competition in the US that gave us the Eagle.
Liam Long
ROOSTER IS STILL ALIVE???
Landon Kelly
so i should be focusing on ba and protos and ultralights and Vees and stuff and while there's advanced tech readily available it's also a logistical burden, so possibly limit my use of it. basically try to keep my availability codes low?
Aiden Bailey
Actually, forces are at minimum in 3131. 3145 is after 15 years of spool up with unmothballing and recommissioning factories. Maximum forces are probably 3139'ish though. After the arms race has been going on for a few years but before the major House actions in the Sphere. Tail end of the RotS gangbang era.
Alexander Long
Of those, only really bees. BA is quite rare because reasons, protos are rare even among the clans, ultralights aren't actually any easier than regular mechs. So basically, just declare that your stuff comes from a less retarded alternate universe rather than dealing with the utter fuckery of the canon DA
Nicholas Clark
You should be focusing on vehicles and infantry. But you're fucked in your empire building because you ain't got the space transport for them. DA is crazy tech and crippled militaries.
Honestly, I never understood why every new kid wants to make their own MH+ tier state out in the Periphery though. The real fun shit is being a pirate with a world or two and a crack crew of cutthroats.
Jaxon Lopez
mh+? what's that?
Elijah Allen
Marian Hegemony or better.
"I need ten worlds who produce a full balanced suite of mechs, vehicles, battle armor, and at least three need to be brand new home designs better than the average Inner Sphere militia uses"
So on. Even in the old days, nobody had half that shit in the Periphery who wasn't named the Taurian Concordant.
Juan Gutierrez
>why every new kid wants to make their own MH+ tier state out in the Periphery
That's not the new kid thing. You're only showing your lack of age. The real "new kid" thing is the completely Mary Sue merc unit, regimental-sized or better, with full infantry, armor, and aero support, and complete with Clan technicians and a Warship or two.
Funny thing. I've never talked with anyone who played Battletech when they were between 13-18 and who DIDN'T make essentially that exact thing. The Sue merc unit is the rite of passage for everybody.
>I need ten worlds who produce a full balanced suite of mechs, vehicles, battle armor, and at least three need to be brand new home designs better than the average Inner Sphere militia uses
If you're a state who's adjacent to the Inner Sphere and who CAN'T make at least 2 types of Mech in each weight class, a half-dozen vehicle units, and without a single home-grown design, you've got no business existing at all. It doesn't fucking matter that the OG Periphery powers didn't have those; the Periphery powers as described shouldn't have existed either with the production level FASA described. It was a mistake to describe them that way in the first place, and shitting on people for refusing to repeat that mistake in their AU makes you the problem, user, not the people who want their AU factions from being completely and permanently irrelevant.
Sure, you can be a state that's well away from the IS and have less production capability, but if you're within 60-90 LY of the edges of the IS, you're within the range where you have to have that capability to believable exist in the first place.
Evan Myers
>If you're a state who's adjacent to the Inner Sphere and who CAN'T make at least 2 types of Mech in each weight class, a half-dozen vehicle units, and without a single home-grown design, you've got no business existing at all.
The Capellan Confederation couldn't even do that though.
Ian Bennett
You're daft man. Nobody conquers the periphery because it's not worth conquering. Even the outer 1/4 of the Successor States that compose the Near Periphery is a dumping ground that gets ignored. Pesht, Outback, the FWL near periphery Independants, Timbuktu.
The second something becomes actually worthwhile to a place that cares, it gets snatched up. See the DA map of the Capcon and how they've expanded mightily into the Periphery.
>The real "new kid" thing is the completely Mary Sue merc unit, regimental-sized or better, with full infantry, armor, and aero support, and complete with Clan technicians and a Warship or two.
That was the new kid thing in 1989. I rarely see it anymore. People have moved up to wanting whole fucking Sue-ccessor states now.
Gavin Brooks
And it had no business existing, hence Xin Sheng magics.
Leo Adams
>If you're a state who's adjacent to the Inner Sphere and who CAN'T make at least 2 types of Mech in each weight class, a half-dozen vehicle units, and without a single home-grown design, you've got no business existing at all. >The Capellan Confederation couldn't even do that though.
>you've got no business existing at all.
Did I fucking stutter?
FASA fucked up, badly, on multiple occasions. Fucking over the Cappies that hard was one of those occasions. The CapCon shouldn't have existed at all after Hanse got done with them, FASA was just to pussy to finish the job and have the state disintegrate completely.
What's almost more important, though, is the prevalence of people who reee that "FASA did it so we have to hold everyone to that same standard forever". Fuck off with that whole train of thought. If it takes X level of production to be relevant, and people want their homebrew faction to be relevant, than don't give people shit for when they fail to make their faction with X-Y (where Y < X) level of production.
Charles Morgan
>People have moved up to wanting whole fucking Sue-ccessor states now.
Good. Better literally anyone be writing factions than CGL.
Sebastian Ward
But it takes absolutely 0 production to be relevant. See every pirate king ever.
Ryder Jenkins
Pirate aren't relevant to anything but an immediately local campaign. If you want to be relevant to a potential metaplot, and want to be justified in actually maintaining your existece instead of being absorbed by a Successor House, then you need the described production.
Aiden Moore
>Pirate aren't relevant to anything but an immediately local campaign.
That's wrong though. Historically, the pirate kingdoms were the biggest movers and shakers in the Periphery until the Clans came. And they're still second place after the clans come. In fact, the big Periphery states were geared to have production sufficient to fend off pirates, not to fend of the IS powers.
Your assumption that anyone needs to fend of the IS is what's the root of your problem IMO.
Zachary Allen
>Your assumption that anyone needs to fend of the IS is what's the root of your problem IMO.
>If you want to be relevant to a potential metaplot
He's not wrong. You aren't either. You're both just wanting different things out of your Battletech experience, and you're calling each other objectively wrong for wanting those respective things.
Jason Martinez
so its 3050 and i just disabled a timber wolf with a lucky gyro hit would my mercs be creaming themselves over this mech?
Connor Taylor
No, and your unit is sue for owning Clan equipment.
Ian Long
Honestly the main problem here stems from the absurd shittiness of the Great House MIC situation from the very beginning. Like, everybody but the FWL and lyrans had jack shit in 3025, and when the baseline for the ostensible big players is "fucked six ways from Sunday", and the small guys have to be worse off, then the periphery has to be stuck with " uncontrollably shitting themselves "-tier industry and militaries, which is not very fun
Benjamin Ward
Metaplots just mean stuff happening in universe. There's nothing required in fighting IS powers. Production isn't either. Fuck, the Malgrotta Pirates were the entire Outback metaplot for the Jihad with like one regiment of guys.
There is a minimum military force, but there is no minimum production.
Luke Parker
isnt every mekhq a sue
Luis Peterson
Given FASA's population numbers, anyone in a 'mech is a sue.
Gavin Collins
That's good though. It's the entire declining civilization theme. And it is fun. This is supposed to be like those Afghani blacksmiths handmaking parts to fix machine guns because they don't have any access to a plant or spare parts. Or like those guys living in the former Belgian Congo with a mud hut and a 1970 Toyota Landcruiser running on sunflower diesel.
Leo Smith
If you've got actual salvage rights and not exchange rights, then...maybe. The VAST majority of Merc v Clan contracts forced the Mercs into exchange salvage so the state got the carcass and the mercs got handed a bunch of cash for it.
Depending on who you work for, there's a non-zero chance (again, because it's 3050) of your employer just *taking* the T-Wolf and telling you to fuck off. Frankly, as hard as it is to work with ClanTech, you're still likely better-off selling it or trading it in for a half-dozen IS Mechs. Which means you should be creaming yourself over the Mech...but perhaps not for the reasons you're thinking.
I like this argument. Well put.
IMO, on a 1-10 scale of production/military equipment quantity, if the Great Houses are between 6-8 in 3025, the Periphery states were at a 2-3. I feel that had the Houses been on an 8-10 on that scale, and the Periphery States been at a 4-6 on that scale, it still would have maintained the clear House supremacy...AND would have given people room to make homebrew factions down in the 2-3 region of the scale.
While the poster saying the FASA was a mistake (more or less) may be abrasive, IMO he's more right than wrong. In retrospect, what they set up WAS a mistake, though it took ~15 years for that mistake to start to become obvious, and it wasn't like the game was designed to have that long of a lifespan.
Play that game how you want, and *understand* that others may want something different out of it, and try not to shit too hard on them if you have a fundamental disagreement in that differential space.
>yeah, I know. "Remember where we are", etc
Joseph Rogers
No it's not. Having "all shit equipment, all the time" is literally the OPPOSITE of fun. There's no point in having all the giant awesome robots if you can't ever fucking use them.
Justin Perez
thats what i was thinking or maybe keep the twolf as a trophy or something idk will probably sell it
Ayden Stewart
Yes it is. Having a million giant robots that are nothing but a expendable cog is what's unfun.
Carson Young
Fuck off, no it's not. Wargear you can't afford to use and lose isn't useable wargear at all. If you can't afford to lose it, then you can't afford to use it in the first place, and if you can't use it then it may as well not exist.
Nathaniel Morgan
The states can afford to lose it, barely. It's the operator that can't.
Parker Richardson
I say 5-10x the mechs, 2-3x the factories and 1/10-1/20 the people is the best mix of increase and decrease for a better universe
Parker Morris
If individual operators can't, then that's another argument for having a game based around state-owned Mechs, so you can actually use and lose the damn mechs in games.
Nobody in the history of ever has actually played Battletech games the way the fluff indicates. Where you fire a couple of salvoes at long range, never close closer than that unless you're assaulting a fixed position, and if the long range fire goes against you for more than a couple turns, you just leave the battlefield so you don't lose the mech.
Nicholas Roberts
I say, same amount of mechs. 1/10-1/50 the people. And same amount of factories but increase production at factories by 2X. Increase maintenance facilities by 3X.
Most importantly, increase Jumpship production by 10X. Need at least 20 ships leaving the slips at a main yard every year,
