EDH/Commander General /edhg/

>a 60% chance of drawing a ramp card in your first 9 cards, or something like that.

Good to know. Most of my decks work off of a similar ramp package.

Depends on many factors, but generally, even with reanimator decks, there are cards you want in the yard, and cards you don't. Milling a buried alive is fantastic, but exiling a yard of critters is even better.

>Milling a buried alive is fantastic

not really, even that is mostly helpful to them

>they now have information of what's left in their deck and what they don't, ie. you've given them higher consistency
>they can return it to their hand with eternal witness, regrowth, archeomancer, etc.

the only way that would be detrimental to them is if the rest of their deck is massively weaker with buried alive now in the grave, like if buried alive was an important combo piece that can't be replaced by another card in any way. otherwise, the best case scenario for you is that they'll just draw a similar card and carry on as normal, and the worst case scenario is that they use the buried alive in their grave to their advantage

>Milling a buried alive is fantastic

What, your playgroup has no concept of Regrowth effects?

Is that The Professor?

I can see the resemblance, but I don't think The Prof knows how to use a shovel...

He said in his video about Jeremy most of his family died in the Holocaust

Milling cards only enables recursion and disables tutors.
A situation in which you mill an important card is identical to a situation where said important card is on the bottom of your opponent's library and he'll never draw it. Milling it becomes better for him if he has an Eternal Witness, or worse if he has a Demonic Tutor, except if he has a Demonic Tutor then he can tutor up an Eternal Witness to get back the important card or tutor up a functionally similar card instead.
If your opponent doesn't have any particularly important card, you're just creating a free toolbox for him by filling up his graveyard with recurrable stuff if he has recursion, or you don't affect him whatsoever if he doesn't.
Accessing your graveyard is a lot cheaper and easier than accessing your library. Milling without exiling is trash.

I'm mostly worried about big, vigilant creatures, but some tertiary coverage is gonna come in handy, too.

Deadlock or Tumble?

Deadlock Trap seems the best if you can flicker and because tapping artifacts is only relevant if you do with something like pic related.

How would that work if I have Unwinding Clock in play?

If you control both Clock and Switch you turn off all artifacts and then as soon as the next upkeep rolls up you turn on all of your artifacts and the turn player's. Switch included if you need to turn them off again..

>Not including bans/unbans, are there any format rules you think need to change? What rule(s) and how?
stop fucking with the command zone wizards

Use a good card instead like Icy Manipulator or Scepter of Dominance

>most of his family died in the Holocaust
oh please let this be real

both of those are honestly pretty weak, you should have better answers in your colors (unless you're running red, then you're kinda fucked)

It's simultaneous, so all your artifacts, including Kill Switch, will be untapped but none of your opponent's artifacts will be.

That it actually happened, or that he actually said it?

It's in the first few minutes
youtube.com/watch?v=CxOFHYKHfHM

>January 15
>Un-cards rotate out of EDH and reddit breathes a sigh of relief
>sheldon releases a new statement
>rules that command zone no longer exists and instead your commander now sits in an entirely new area called the "leader's refuge"
>none of wotc's retarded command zone abilities work anymore

do it sheldon

>being this worked by eminence

eminence could have been somewhat bearable if they weren't so retarded about using it

honestly, the commander 2017 product commanders are honestly some of the worst cards WotC has ever designed and i'm willing to write an at least 2000 character essay why

>mom he keeps killing me with ahrabo infect

>i'm willing to write an at least 2000 character essay why

I expect it on my desk by Monday.

i'm the infect player in my meta, bitch

>mostly only effects the new set
>none of the older ones

ALL commander set exclusives are cancer and a mistake. the point of commander was to make legendaries more playable, not to break the format. wizards changed the tucking rule so people that shelled out 34.99 to play op shit wont get buttmad.

>flicker
I'm not quite so potent; I'm only proliferating.

Icy manipulator costs 1 more and costs mana to activate. I'm not seeing how it's better, but I could be missing an obvious detail?

What would you advise to tap down a creature every turn? I'm playing against a bunch of nasty cast trigger commanders whose decks trivialize mana, so killing is super not an option.

The tuck rule doesn't solve eminence abilities, dumbfuck.

So, like, a single Veeky Forums post?

>I'm not seeing how it's better, but I could be missing an obvious detail?
It can tap down more than two/three times and can tap down annoying lands like Gaea's Cradle and Maze of Ith

Do it faggot.

>wizards changed the tucking rule so people that shelled out 34.99 to play op shit wont get buttmad.

The Rules Committee changed the tuck rule, user.

>none of the older ones
Oloro and Derevi arent exactly spring chickens

>people are actually mad about eminence despite being the most underwhelming abilities commanders have had thus far
>on no i have to deal with an extra 1/1 with literally 0 abilities
>on no i have to deal with an extra 3 power guy that i can just chump block

you fags would complain about a craw wurm commander i swear

>underwhelming
>edgar
wew

>I literally don't understand virtual card advantage

>creating vanilla 1/1s is a problem
rofl literally just board wipe, it isnt that hard. he is literally only good because ofthe pump ability and even that is barely ok. i can think of literally hundreds of other things more scare than pumping your team by 1 and adding an extra body on each cast

get it cause she's a bird

Yes, he is.

Inalla is the only Eminence commander whose Eminence ability is worth enough to make her more than mediocre based on its strength. Edgar, Longcat, and Ur-Dragon are all middling commanders at best. Oloro and Derevi are legit stronk but *mostly* on the force of what they bring to the table once they're out. Oloro's slow drip is nice but if he's not triggering to draw a million cards he's kind of wasted. Derevi is probably the second strongest command zone ability (and the strongest commander with a command zone ability), but he's hardly the only commander capable of tax evasion; the tap/untap control elements are what let the powerful Derevi builds work.

using a word without knowing its meaning

t. Veeky Forums

>rofl literally just board wipe, it isnt that hard
>boardwipe
>cast a vampire
>it still makes an additional vampire
nice going buddy
>adding an extra body on each cast for 0 investment or mana isnt strong
despite vampires in general being shit, edgar actually makes them much much more usable
the extra bodies are really helpful because of edgars second ability on top of being sac fodder, sure its not turn 3-4 combo deck but its an extremely high floor even if the celling isnt the highest

the tucking rule changed happened years before eminence existed as a keyword, underage newfag. im saying it was bullshit like that which pushed playing commander exclusives and not old neat legends.

>wizards doesnt pay them

good goy, believe whatever big buiness tells you.

>board wipe
>some plays stuff after and make 2 total vamps
>this is somehow a surprise and still as difficult to deal with than then lets say 8 vamps

imagine actually being this stupid, life for you must be hard

>are there any format rules you think need to change
>he hasn't changed them already with his friends
LGS virgin detected

>>this is somehow a surprise and still as difficult to deal with than then lets say 8 vamps
>cast 4 vampires
>get 8 total
if you cant understand how this is powerful theres no hope for you

Tokens are usually the very definition of virtual card advantage.

>total of 8
>half of them being vanilla 1/1s

are you actually saying that you are scared of 1/1s that dont even come in a high amount? do you just like shit yourself when playing against krenko or rhys?

krenko or rhys doesn't create tokens from the command zone you massive dumbass

>literally just literally

fuck this way of writing hurts my eyes

>Naked singularity
>There's an event horizon around it
An actual naked singularity would do shit a lot worse than just suck you into it. There's a reason most physicists think such a thing can't physically exist.

you mean
>store full of obese SJW """"women""""
seriously though, what is it about mtg that attracts so many transsexuals? every single woman magic player or streamer or content creator you hear about is a tranny.

picture is spot-on though. words can barely describe how much better having your own playgroup is to frequenting an LGS.

Edgar IS pretty vulnerable to boardwipes, but his colors can help dodge them:

-eerie interlude
-teferi's protection
-ghostway
-boros charm
-patriarch's bidding
-cauldron of souls
-pyroblast (for that pesky and ever present cyclonic rift)

etc, etc.
It's always mistifying to me how no Edgar deck i've seen has most of this cards.

What's an easy way to bounce Naked Singularity back and forth to my hand? I want something permanent I can activate or use at instant speed during my untap phase.

how the fuck did I not think of this?? Thanks user I know what my next deck is going to be

>Play against krenko
>Kill krenko ASAP
>No krenko problems for another few turns

Wow that's so much easier. It sure is a good thing you can kill Edgar to stop his effect...

No, there is a reason Edgar is banned in 1v1, he is pretty fucking strong, and will only get stronger as more good vamps are printed (like in the vampire tribal block we are in RIGHT NOW).

When we hit critical mass of good tribal vamps like we have with elves Edgar will be pretty out of control.

>1v1

ayy fucking lmao i thought people were talking about actual edh. no one gives a shit about 1v1

The thing is, Skull Clamp can't tell the difference between Viscera Seer and a 1/1 Vampire token. Neither can Grave Pact, Blood Artist, or any number of other cards.

What the token actually is matters much less than the simple fact that it's there.

>When we hit critical mass of good tribal vamps like we have with elves Edgar will be pretty out of control.

Despite owning an Edgar deck that I love, I don´t agree with you. Vampires as a tribe will never be as good as elves, mainly because they're an aggro tribe instead of a value focused tribe in a stronger color for edh.

Im not saying Edgar is bad or anything. Shit, sometimes things go my way and I have an army of 12/12 flying trample vampires. But they will never be as degenerate as elves are.

holy shit, imagine a lys alana huntmaster that works from the command zone. now that would be insane

so your point is essentially that other cards are enabled by tokens? wew lad there is a shocker. you are literally mad because its a wizards product. none of these issues are exclusive to edgar and edgar is a heavily powered down version of what other generals can do. being upset about edgar and a singular token you get every time just shows how bad you actually are at magic in general

>mainly because they're an aggro tribe instead of a value focused tribe in a stronger color for edh

It's possible to build Edgar as an Aristocrats style deck, which makes it a lot more value focused because you can very easily pay for anything that wants creatures as a cost.

They def are moving towards value though. With the various vampires that steal creatures, or Olivia/madness abilities.

Mardu already has plenty of ways to abuse tokens.

see

I proxy Force of Will and Living Plane. Am I a bad person?

Nothing wrong with doing both.

I'm not the person you've been arguing with, I'm just pointing out you'd be a moron to act like the fact they're "only vanilla 1/1s" means they're worthless. There's a lot you can do with vanilla 1/1s.

No, I'm saying the ability itself is absurd. That you can't see how strong it is baffles me. The only reason people don't shit themselves when they see him is because we haven't hit critical mass on vampire tribal cards like we have with elves. There isn't a vampire priest of titania or elvish archdruid. There aren't a dozen vampire Lords.

If it helps you imagine what Edgar will be like, imagine a version of him for elves, and then think of how long it would take that to kill the table. 4 turns? 5?

Edgar's Eminence ability is outrageous. As is it provides absurd value, in a few years it might even put him on the normal banlist.

Probably not. Snow has never been very popular and it's a 7 on the last storm scale I saw. Plus it kind of fits the billing for being pretty parasitic and has similar complications that Tribal did which ultimately led to it being axed. And this is from someone who wants a new Snow set badly.

>His decks aren't all different flavors of being artifact-based

What's wrong, user? Scared of the best card type in Magic?

No. But don't be surprised if people don't want to play with you.

>It's possible to build Edgar as an Aristocrats style deck

That's true, and they can be quite powerful. They're still not gonna be as fast as elves tho.

I got two already.
Daretti and Mairsil.

Both are my favorite decks.

Well I have yet to actually play the Living Plane in person. And I don't run boardwipes, just an Ink-Treader Nephilim and Insurrection :^)

What could be fun would be if they just straight up made one of the commander series be "snow year" and each one was somehow snow related.

i hope at some point they find some reason to reprint all the snow lands. it's stupid that a pauper skred deck needs to spend so much more money on its basic lands because of one card. and i guess those boring people who play all-snow basics so their extraplanar lens won't help other players would be happy with that too.

They could do something like or use Snow as a subtheme in one of the Masters series. Just put Skred and some other nonsense in there and use that as justification for reprinting Snow basics. It'd add a decent bit of value to the set just having a Snow land in every pack.

>boring people

Nigga, wanting to play scrying sheets and mouth of ronom while getting good value out of 3 drop artifacts makes you boring now?

>scrying sheets and mouth of ronom
you're excused and free to go.

They could do that and I would really like it but I just don't think it was popular enough to convince them to do it. Skred was really the only card in its time that encourage snow usage in constructed and it took Stuffy Doll to make it work.

What are some less heard cards that really help dig? Particularly for GU creatures which I use as combo pieces.

Yeah it does. Didn't say it wasn't good just you're not blazing new paths in the format.

Taigam's Scheming digs 5 but gives no card draw

Commune with Nature, See the Unwritten, and Summoning Trap dig pretty decent. Reason to Believe can be okay. Simic Nissa lets you scry 2 every turn. Dig Through Time is pretty good if you stuff to delve.

Ask Urza is live, if anyone cares.

See the Unwritten looks great but I don't think I can meet Ferocious and I'll end up binning necessary creatures in that top 8.

Okay essay is done

COMMANDER 2017 – THE WORST EDH CARDS EVER CREATED

PROLOGUE

As per request by Veeky Forums, I am writing this lengthy essay on why I think the Commander 2017 product commanders were quite possibly the worst cards WotC has ever designed. To clarify, I don’t mean that they are underpowered, nor do I mean that they’re overpowered either. I mean they’re badly designed and most definitely not in the spirit of EDH. In this essay, I will use numerous examples to illustrate my point. To start off, let’s talk about the focus of the set, the tribal design.

CHAPTER I – TRIBALS ARE FOR BRAINLETS

Tribals are a lot of fun for some people. I used to be one of those people when I was around 2 weeks into magic and I thought goblins were cool. Nowadays, I think tribal mechanics are exceedingly dull. Before we delve into the Commander 2017 cards themselves, I will explain why I think tribals are bad in the first place.
For one, tribals are too simple to build. There is nothing interesting or exciting about stacking obvious tribal synergies that have long since been “discovered” and carefully mapped out for general use. Tribals are almost always wide creature strategies revolving around usually vanilla creatures that just tend to hit hard. Oh wow, you played a Door of Destinies in a tribal deck! That’s so exciting, a card that makes your zombies hit slightly harder whenever you cast zombies. What makes it so interesting? Well you see, you name the creature type “zombie” when you play it, so it’s really exciting because your deck is full of zombies. Fuck you. If you take the “tribal” out of any tribal deck, about 90% of the time you get a bunch of shitty vanilla creatures and anthems stuck in together like a braindead salad of retardation.

Secondly, and this is related to the first part, tribals are limiting. If you’re building a tribal deck, you have a very limited card pool to draw from. You couldn’t make your deck unique if you tried. If you’re building a vampire deck, you’ll most likely use the same vampires as anyone else is using, and you’ll use the same enchantments, sorceries and artifacts that everyone else is using. And to add insult to injury, most of these tribal synergies are exceedingly boring, just like Door of Destinies. Wow, it’s an anthem, but it’s for zombies! Wow, it’s menace, but it’s for zombies! Wow!!! It’s more boring versions of old bullshit but limited to a certain tribe. Oh, you wanted to play an actually interesting tribal card like Azami, Lady of Scrolls in a zombie tribal? Well, you can’t because it’s not in your tribe. Just go down to EDHRec, click “average deck” and copy the contents for your star city gaming order so they can jew you out with those bought-out tribal staples.

Oh and that’s another thing to hate about tribals, all the good tribal cards get bought out because there are legions of simpletons buying the same cards as you to build the same boring ass deck. Essentially you’ll be paying 1000 dollars for a deck full of boring vanilla creatures and anthems. You dumbass.

>as per request by Veeky Forums

I didn't request this autism. Take it to a separate thread.

CHAPTER II – WHY EMINENCE BAD

So here we are, the Commander 2017 set. Having learned from previous sets that everyone loves command zone based value and abilities, WotC comes out with a sick new concept, Eminence. This ability is specifically designed to work in conjunction with a tribal mechanic.

Now, like almost every tribal mechanic, the Eminence abilities only work for 1 specific tribe each and that tribe alone. In practice, this means that you will see Edgar Markov only pooping out extra tokens when you cast vampires. So if you ever had a dream of making a demon tribal, you’re fucked. It’s just vampires this year. I mean, WotC could’ve made each commander support 2 tribes each, you know, just for a bit of variance, but they elected not to.

But I digress, let’s look at Eminence. We have 4 Eminence abilities, each of them ham-handedly trying to make their respective tribes more relevant in the world of EDH. Edgar Markov, Arehbo and Ur-Dragon each give free value out of the command zone at no risk, commitment or thought from the player’s part. Now, this is bad for multiple reasons:
1.

Command zone isn’t a real interactable zone, it’s just where your commander sits when he’s not anywhere else. Well, that’s before WotC took a huge, heaving shit the whole format with Oloro and Derevi and so on. There are no spells that can exile or kill your opponent’s commander in the command zone. There is no way to interact with your opponent’s the command zone in any way, so why should the command zone be able to interact with the game either? Since you can’t interact with Eminence, most players tend to find it annoying to play against the mechanic. It’s frustrating to completely be incapable of doing anything about your opponent shitting out tokens against your deck that is hard-countered by tokens.

this you nigger

2.

Using your commander should be risky, using Eminence is anything but. There is no thought or choice on the player’s part whether he chooses to use Edgar Markov or not. There is nothing to lose. You just create tokens for free and your opponent can’t do shit about it. Normally, there is a risk to using your commander in EDH. The command zone tax exists for a reason, and it’s used to punish for excessively relying on your commander to achieve your game plan. But there’s no punishment or cost to what Arehbo or Edgar do. The only punishment you endure is having to play a shitty tribal deck full of boring vanilla creatures and anthems.

3.

It undermines other commanders for the tribes and the concept of having a situational commander. Why would you ever, EVER build any other vampire commander now that Edgar Markov is out? They’re all shit now in comparison. WotC has quite retardedly ignored the power level of the typical vampire commander, and now if you’re not using Edgar you’re actively shooting yourself in the foot. Even if you had an Anowon mono-B vampire tribal, you’re most likely better off using Edgar as your commander while remaining in mono-black. You never need to even cast Edgar Markov to make use of him. Just use his tokens to feed your mono-B saccing strategies. In essence, by creating Edgar Markov, WotC has deleted every single vampire commander from existence so you have even less choice than before.