Lets discuss ADB's AMA

NYT Bestseller != indication of quality.

But he didn't answer the question of which gods perturbated and lorgorroic are aligned with

Because GW haven't decided yet.

>caring about lore in your universe full of chainsaw wielding supermutant men

>dissing integrity
kys senpai

Don't they talk about the demon of the first murder being power by all four choirs in Master of Mankind.

>can't be all at once because OCdonutsteel would cry
>can't be only one because symmetric autism
>can't be none because reasons yet unvoiced

it's going to be all of them at different times, is it?
or they are going to pretend they were never daemon primarchs to begin with, and just buffer primarchs who are near ascension but not there yet, it's not like they have particularly ostensible daemonic gifts like wings or a disregard for their old style of armour, or a need for 2 more daemon-primarch sized centerpieces; was their ascension even relevant plot-wise or just sort of there?

Who is Drach'nyen relevant? It's not a daemon prince nor does it have the mark of Undivided.

How*

Yeah, that also. And Master of Mankind is pretty fucking fresh.

Dryah'nyen is not a daemon of any of the Four Powers. It is a daemon of Chaos Undivided. The same Chaos Undivided that Dryah'nyen's creater claims is not canon.

ADB is saying that Undivided Princes and Marks no longer exist, apart from Abaddon and Be'lakor.

...

I thought Abaddon has mark of Chaos Ascendant, rather than mark of Chaos Undivided.

It's pretty much the same but better.

But isn't that the way to differentiate the donut steels from the rest? Undivided are just the rabble, the dudes with Chaos stars on them, playing their part in the Great Game. Daemon Princes who've gained enough notoriety in their mortal life to ascend, but forfeit all the access to cool god specific shit. Meanwhile Abaddon and OC'kor can have the mark of Chaos Ascendant, where they've earned the full support of all the gods and all the benefits that come with it.

His bolter & chainsword spergouts were always interesting to witness. I couldn't really take him seriously after that.

Nah. It would ruin what makes them special if everyone can approach what they did. They are suppose to be exceptions to the rule. One of the few things that the conflicting Chaos Gods agree on.

Who cares guis? ChaoZ dids it LULZ!!!1

>giving a fuck about nu-40k lore

>It would ruin what makes them special if everyone can approach what they did.

But they can't. Mark of Undivided and Mark of Ascendant are not the same thing. They don't give you the same benefits.

Has the collective IQ dropped or something? We managed Chaos Undivided for decades, but now it just doesn't work. What the actual fuck? I know what it is, it's because special characters became standard issue in armies, so now everyone's dads have to be more special than others' dads. Fuck your dads, your dad belongs in WHFB, locked in a dungeon and fluffing the next Everchosen whenever one arises.

What fucking integrity?

>But they can't. Mark of Undivided and Mark of Ascendant are not the same thing.

Only in gameism, in fluff there's no real separation between the two, they're both the blessing of the four gods.

Undivided was only a thing in 3e.
Didn't exist in 2e and didn't exist in 4e onward.

The only thing I got out of it was he's a retarded pretentious hack liked exclusively by cretins.

>Frogposting

>all blessings of the four gods are equal
that's a rather gamey thing to say about fucking chaos

Please, tell me more things that didnt exist during 2nd edition.

Rogue Trader says hello. Also, 4e Daemon Princes didn't have to take a mark.

By that logic there's no difference between a cultist with Mark of Khorne and Kharn. They're both mortals with Khorne's blessings.

Not really, the marks are the gods putting their stamp on you.
So there's no fundamental difference between a mark that specifies that you have the blessing of the four gods and a mark that specifies that you have the blessing of the four gods.

>4e Daemon Princes didn't have to take a mark.

No mark is not undivided. It's no mark.

No, because Kharn has other blessings on top of being a veteran space marine. A mark is a mark.

How could a daemon prince have no mark while still being a daemon prince if it's not Undivided.

Right, like undivided it didn't make sense, hence they removed it.

Got back to red,dit faggot.

Turbo being the only traitor primarch not to ascend would be pretty Turbo-y.

>there's no fundamental difference between a mark that specifies that you have the blessing of the four gods and a mark that specifies that you have the blessing of the four gods.
except the one resulting from the quality and quantity of said blessings under the mark, because these certainly aren't the same.

Is this some post-meta-ironic loss edit?

Undivided did made sense.

Considering that chaos is chaotic, it made more sense than needing to choose only one god

Curze and Alpharius did not ascended either

Right, but those blessings are separate from the mark. Angron and a Khorne cultist have the commonality of a mark of Khorne, but Angron has much more blessings.

>Undivided did made sense.

It did not, the gods are always at war with each other, the times they decide to co-operate and invest an individual with power should be very rare.

Of the ones who aren't dead, obviously.

>So apparently the warhams fans believe in versions of 40K that never existed and get made when the true version doesn't match it. Also they believe in erroneous non-canonical things that GW has removed long time ago (ie Chaos Undivided). Why are some warhams fans such shiters?

Warhammer lore is both long-running and riddled with inconsistencies, contradictions, retcons and misconceptions.
This makes it a complete and utter mess from a storytelling perspective, but as a hobbyist medium focused on "Your Dudes", this rather delightfully makes WH lore multiple-choice.
You are free to choose whichever version of canon suits Your Dudes and your play experience best, even one that technically never existed (i.e. Leman Russ battletanks being retrofitted farm equipment. Not canon, but fun!)

No, you can't do that. ABD says so.

Hey ADB, I fluffed my blood ravens as thousand sons successors, is that ok?

But if the quakities differentiating between a simple marked mortal and a superpowered marked is acquired through blessings and not the mark itself, why then rule out the possibility of someone acquiring superpowered status thanks to numerous blessings without the mark itself?

Did anyone ask him what he's getting his parents for Christmas?

This nigga get's it.

Never mind that it was the HH/BL brand and not ADB's name that sold those books to re-sellers.

>Also they believe in erroneous non-canonical things that GW has removed long time ago (ie Chaos Undivided)

that's somewhat retarded though, Molotch from the Ravenor novels sometimes utters something to the effect of 'praise the undying eight', which presumably references the eight-pointed chaos star and tellingly doesn't prioritize any of the major single chaos gods???

This is objectively the best way to approach warhammer

either as a little to no comunicating multiverse or as built up by unreliable narrators/sources

You can do this.
You just don't become a daemon prince without the mark.
Plenty of unmarked people have mutations.

>Molotch from the Ravenor novels sometimes utters something to the effect of 'praise the undying eight', which presumably references the eight-pointed chaos star and tellingly doesn't prioritize any of the major single chaos gods???
Yeah, but that series was written by a good author.

Damn, evil lamassu Magnus was cool.

Perturabo was supposed to have ascended to daemonhood after decimating the Imperial Fists in his trap fortress; that should still be relevant to the plot?

YUUUP. Canon is death. It means you're not playing with your toys anymore, you're just borrowing them from some corporation.

>Some of these angry people seem beholden to a version of 40K that never existed

Basically almost everyone on Veeky Forums that just think 40k is exactly like in the memes and get mad when official publication prove different.

>that time he talked all that shit about how the Blood Ravens would never be 1ksons descendants, then promptly got blown the fuck out by rebirth and threw a bitchfit

An Undivided Demon Prince is a dude that hopped himself up on so much warp juice and assorted gifts from the big 4 or lesser demons that he became a demon. How is this hard? Why does everything always need the direct involvement of the fucking chaos gods? This is exactly why the lore has gone to shit.
And also fuck you, Undivided was a thing in 40k and WHFB for more editions than not. The 4th Edition CSM book was completely focused on Undivided and Black Legion, which is why everyone was so assmad about it. This fucker is what Tomm Hulett was to Silent Hill.

Don't forget the change he wrote into the rubric of ahriman specifically to spite Blood Raven lovers.

>chaos undivided was just a silly dumb thing
>what is Perturabo
>what is lorgar
>what is the black legion

Also, is it just me or does ADB seem like a huge cunt?

>So, here are things some people don't like about your book...
>Uh you mean my BESTSELLER WELL RECEIVED BY MILLIONS????

Sure...that book.

Also, why is Abaddon's and Be'lladonna's special status so important? They're both dreadfully uninteresting characters and that really don't enrich the story and are best used as simple plot devices. Be'laswan isn't even very good as a plot device and really has no place existing in 40k to begin with.

Almost no one likes it except ADB and some sycophantic fanboys that are probably just ADB in disguise, and in a setting that should operate on rule of cool and support your dudes having undivided princes and undivided marks is a lot cooler.

Also, I am fairly sure my 5e core rulebook (the collectors one) has info about chaos undivided as well.

>Also, is it just me or does ADB seem like a huge cunt?
Idk, is they guy who vows to insert women and minorities at every opportunity, regardless of character, because he's too immature to ignore an entry-level troll, a cunt?

> guy who vows to insert women
And when he does they're waifus for his thinly veiled self inserts, thus pleasing no one but himself.

ADB isn't the one who removed Undivided. It was GW. ADB is just reporting on it. Don't shoot the messenger.

Actually, Abaddon and Be'lakor are compelling characters. Be'lakor in WHFB was the ultimate behind the scenes villain and ADB's Abaddon is a swell guy.

It's also the impression I got first. He was wrong to start off his answer this way.

Especially since what he writes afterwards is quite interesting and true, about everyone having their own interpretation of the lore, the fact that no book will ever make the fanbase happy when it's on such a touchy subject, and the fact that the Emperor is shown through the eyes of the Protagonists very differently each time, hence it could mean that He is all/none of what he is perceived as.

But yeah, he didn't start off right, but to be fair, the guy who asked the question was not very diplomatic, which in made ADB told him to fuck off at the end, more or less, and probably rightly so.

There are definitely bits where ADB was in the wrong, like using his sales/reviews of MoM to legitimize it, as well as saying the IP guys said it was fine, when a few questions before that he was saying that they would sometimes decides arbitrarily about stuff, without making sense and being jackasses.
That and the fact that he basically said "Well the people who disagree are not the Fanbase, just a minority" came ouf as quite cuntish, although I understand that he probably took a lot of fire for that book and is probably fed up with it, especially since, by his own admission, he goe back to his writings constantly and second guess himself a lot.

But overall I'd say I agree with his views, now that he explained them and showed me stuff that I didn't notice in the first place, making his vision of the Emperor a lot more ambiguous that it seemed at first sight.

>We don't need definitive answers to every mystery or implication in the lore.
True.
>Anyway enjoy this retcon specifically meant to give a definitive negative answer to the question of loyalist TSons successors.
He could at least be consistent.

The most BS thing that ADB said in the whole AMA is....

That Khayon can't possibly beat Magnus in combat or magic so he will have to do something else to defeat Magnus and break him.

The fight will be included in the series at some point. I am still hyped for it

>You just don't become a daemon prince without the mark.
Why? the mark itself is just a mark, it's the blessings that matter and you can get blessings without a mark, so why couldn't someone get enough blessings to reach daemonhood too?
It's not like unaligned daemons don't exist already.

Hello ADB.
Being stated to be the mastermind behind things without actually seeing the process makes stating it and their involvement seem like a total bullshit asspull, and makes no one but that characters pre existing fanboys like them.
This is in no way compelling or interesting. It doesn't work for the same reason that the deceiver doesn't work.
Tzeentch is sometimes but not always done better, with the backstory of the Thousand Sons for example it is very clear where and how he influenced them to mastermind their fall.

Abaddon has all the personality of a wet piece of cardboard, his motivations are vague and unsympathetic and his only real effective purpose is to exist as a reason for all the Chaos Legions to fight together.

They are both terrible characters that the majority of 40k fans are either totally apathetic to or outright hate.

Lorgar as the hypocritical man of faith who wishes to be the messiah and Perturabo as the embittered workaholic who snaps and goes postal and much more interesting characters.
Having undivided princess, just as having minor chaos gods is also better from a your dudes perceptive, as it gives players far more freedom.

Sure, and it was nice to see the "its just different interpretations" piece essentially confirmed. In case anyway had a different headcanon of the emporer I guess.

The "DAoT weapon left out of the box" hook I thought was super interesting.

I didn't like the comments about "a 40k that never existed." That's the point of feedback; if you don't like the way something is perceived then you need to change the way you convey it, but whatever.

Nope, elevation to daemonhood is a reward by the gods, not from stacking gifts.

According to the lore in the index Chaos, all daemon princes require A CHAOS GOD to elevate them to daemonhood. That Chaos God being their master.

Only Be'lakor is alone among the daemon princes to not have a single godly master, but having to answer to them all.

>unaligned daemons

They've been mentioned here and there and it always seems pretty need. The "cyclopean lords of the shadow forge" or whatever, the dudes that churn out and make the deals for soul grinders, for example.

They could use some more robust support other than decade+ old furies sculpts, however.

You can imagine why people don't use this as their headcanon, when in old chaos codices your lord was a demon prince after having "x points of gifts."

I think this visceral gameplay and crunch interpretation is where some of the disconnect with fluff occurs between the game writers and players.

>Being stated to be the mastermind behind things without actually seeing the process makes stating it and their involvement seem like a total bullshit asspull, and makes no one but that characters pre existing fanboys like them.

Be'lakor's backstory is among the most detailed in the WHFB setting and they usually show you him pulling the strings and interacting with his enemies and puppets.

His problem in 40K is that he is a newcomer with relatively little fluff but that's gonna change since it's hinted that he will be heavily involved in the Dark Imperium storyline.

>Abaddon has all the personality of a wet piece of cardboard, his motivations are vague and unsympathetic and his only real effective purpose is to exist as a reason for all the Chaos Legions to fight together.

Actually, Abaddon in the two Black Legion novels has very cool and chill. I would gladly serve him. I want him to be my dad.. ADB did a really good job in fluffing him.

They are mentioned in the Chaos index. Unaligned daemons are victims and slaves to the Great Powers.

>WHFB setting
Dead game, not relevant to 40k.

> he is a newcomer
and an unwelcome addition that adds nothing and only takes away, both from pre existing established characters and from players ability to have their dude.

>it's hinted that he will be heavily involved in the Dark Imperium storyline.
Such as by having the shit kicked out of him by some imperial fists in a totally irrelevant fight during the destruction of Cadia and by never showing up again after that in any relevant material?

>Actually, Abaddon in the two Black Legion novels has very cool and chill.
"Cool and chill" is just cod for "I like this character", he still has absolutely no compelling personality to speak of.

> I want him to be my dad.. ADB did a really good job in fluffing him.
Okay you are definitely ADB, fuck off your writing is shit. Any book of yours that has ever sold well was purely because of the brand recognition of 40k and if you wrote your own stories no one would care.

I mean, in a setting like 40k, the most hardcore and dedicated of fans are pretty likely to be manchildren. And when the original creators are gone, it's easy to hide the fanfiction behind an official tag.
GW's mistake however, was allowing their writers free reign to engage on forums and such like a normal person. When you let your compensated fan fiction writers do that, and everyone realizes they're whiny manchildren mad people don't like their fan fiction retcons, it becomes a lot harder to see the work as anything but fan fiction. The tag becomes a less effective shield.

Though the problem could also be 40k itself, we've already seen with Doctor Who and Star Wars that franchises that live beyond their creators are cancerous.

I like Abaddon.

I agree with you about Bela'kor though. Guy needed to stay on fantasy only.

>baww why don't the mean authors write my headcanon instead of what is approved by GW

You guys need to understand that GW has been anal about their own interpretation and only their own interpretation getting into the books since the 80's. The only time they let author's idea through is when they think it so good that they change the entire canon, such as was the case with Genevieve being allowed to be a vampire protagonist.

>Kim [aka Jack Yeovil] says, 'Bryan Ansell… really liked Drachenfels, and I think overruled some nit-picks about the specifics of the rule-books, which were changing all the time anyway. I remember one of my few meetings in Nottingham, based on the outline of Drachenfels, when someone said that their rules for vampires precluded having one as a heroine and suggesting that Genevieve be an elf and Bryan saying it would be better to change the rules. I used that "couldn't she be an elf?" line in the book, when the nasty actress doesn't want to play a vampire.'

>Dead game, not relevant to 40k.

Relevant to how Be'lakor is one of the best written characters there and needs to be brought to 40K to enrich it.

>and an unwelcome addition that adds nothing and only takes away, both from pre existing established characters and from players ability to have their dude.

What he was in WHFB, he brings to 40K which sorely needs him. We literally have no manipulator behind the scenes character in 40K.

And who is hurt by Be'lakor being in 40K. Only two characters who have much smaller footnote in 40K than Be'lakor.

>"Cool and chill" is just cod for "I like this character", he still has absolutely no compelling personality to speak of.

I like his fatherly and authoritative personality in BL series. His talks and interactions with his men especially Khayon are pure literately gold.

>Okay you are definitely ADB,

If I have 1/4 of his writing skills, I wouldn't be here.

>Such as by having the shit kicked out of him by some imperial fists in a totally irrelevant fight

If Be'lakor didn't invade the Phalanx and then screw up, then Cadia would have been destroyed sooner and ALL the heroes would have died.

It's the compulsive categorizing that seems to hit every long-running fantasy series eventually. All divisions need to be both exhaustive and mutually exclusive and any weirdness needs explicit reasons.

When did Veeky Forums start hating ADB, anyway? A few years back he was one of the writers unanimously considered to be Good, but now you can't mention him without the thread devolving into yelling about him being a hack with daddy issues.

>Relevant to how Be'lakor is one of the best written characters there and needs to be brought to 40K to enrich it.
You're a sycophantic fanboy Be'llboy is shit no matter the setting.

>We literally have no manipulator behind the scenes character in 40K.
What is Tzeentch?

>Only two characters who have much smaller footnote in 40K than Be'lakor.
Yes only two characters that are utterly core to the entire narrative of 40k, one of whom shaped the setting into what we know it as today and is largely responsible for the Imperium as we know it.

> pure literately gold.
Examples? Cause I'm pretty sure it's all shit.

>If Be'lakor didn't invade the Phalanx and then screw up, then Cadia would have been destroyed sooner and ALL the heroes would have died.
See no one cares, this is boring story telling.

Anyway you're almost certainly a troll so I think I'm just going to stop giving you (you)s.

Veeky Forums contrarianism, when something turns out to be popular it's shit. It's remarkably similar in /tv/

They realized he just writes the same sad chaosboy protag who is always right about everything with a sassy yet vulnerable waifu over and over.

He started to turn to shit when he started inserting more and more of his daddy issues and started being a belligerent cunt that refused to accept any canon other than his own, to the point where he would retcon or rewrite things so that they would suit his personal opinions of the setting.

ADB has an IQ of 53 and enjoys being stepped on by strong wammin in his spare time. Basically he ignores any criticism because he is not emotionally mature enough to accept it. He will justify any terrible/bastardised/logic defying fluff that tumbles out of his arse as the word of god that his detractors 'just don't get it'.

He is a close second to CS Goto for worst black library writer. Thankfully some better writers have emerged like wraight and ADB will eventually be retired from writing 40k tumblr novels.

As an aside he has been fun to analyse psychologically as he self-inserts his insecurities and fantasies [usually based around internalised perceptions of gender/sex roles and perception of power such as masculine father figure hatred/male assertive impotence fear of discovery by peers/desire to whiteknight for praise] into his writing in the most overt manner I have ever seen. The Night Lords books were particularly blatant with most of the main cast being psychological aspects of the author:character 1 'how I wish to be perceived'/character 2 'How I perceive myself'/character 3 'How I fantasize women' and so on. Don't get me wrong BL is hardly high literature but even the most mundane BL hack doesn't project to this extent.
t.psychoanalyst

Indeed, let chaos be the vague and ill defined thing it was clearly meant to be, autistic categorizations only hurt the overall setting and peoples ability to have their dudes.