Who would win? the chaos gods or the lovecraftian gods

Depends on who writes your fanfiction.

As usual, WH40K is outclassed, in this case because the Chaos gods are beings who can't even claim to dominate a single galaxy, while the most powerful Lovecraftian gods operate on a universal scale.

The gods of Warhammer can't even deal with a single thief in a red trenchcoat and nice hat, what makes you think they can deal with Azathoth or Yog-Sathoth?

Then again Carmen Sandiego arguably operates on a similar field to the Lovecraftian gods. She can steal *abstract concepts*, after all. That's utter madness.

>If you bothered reading anything about them you'd realize that the incidents humans know about are accidental brushes with them

Except in the case of Nyarlathotep, who seems to be actively interested in fucking with humanity. By all accounts it's solely because he's a dick, with no deeper meaning beyond that.

Being fair, with how he appears in the Dreamlands, there's every indication that Nyarlathotep fucks with every sapient species in the universe.

It's still an active interest on the part of Nyarlathotep, not an accidetnal brush. And for no other reason than he's a dick and/or really likes Japanese anime.

The end game of the Chaos Gods is to achieve a state where they have a fraction of the power that the Elder Gods have when the stars are not even right.

What more needs to be said?

That, and Nyarlathotep's celestial role is to be the messenger/herald for the big boys. He is the one Elder God whose goddamn job is to go and interact with lesser beings.

>whose goddamn job is to go and interact with lesser beings
A job "he" seems to resent which might be part of why he fucks with people, especially realizing that he and everything are just part of azathoth's dream.

"When elephants fight it is the grass that loses"

Nah the Chaos Gods would put up a fight, but they'd be squatted from the universe real quick.

i posted this thread because there was someone LARPing as the emprah in the youtube comments section claimed that the chaos gods are million times stronger than them and the comment really makes me wish the Tyranids consume all life in the galaxy

What, theoretically, would need to happen for a Lovecraftian God to be destroyed?

if Azathoth stops dreaming, the entire universe and the other gods will cease to exist

The Chaos gods are weak simply because they have human aspectws, human reasoning, and human thought process. they are utterly mired in existence as human thoughtforms.

in the mean time you have Yog-Sathoth, which is the interface between anything anywhere and everywhere else as an awareness in and of itself that is utilizwed across multiple universes by multiple species and had absolutely no concerns for anything ever unless someone decides to help make more servitors for other gods, at which point it fucks someone and then fucks off.

How about a different answer that includes Azathoth on the list of 'what would you need to kill X' solve for X.

Can't be done.

The Elder Gods failed to kill a high priest of the Outer gods. What makes you think anything can destroy any of the Other and Outer gods if the Elder Gods can't do anything to their High Priest (who is NOT a god) but put him in a coma for a few hundred million years?

>What makes you think anything can destroy any of the Other and Outer gods blah blah blah
I'm not, I'm asking if it can be done by the internal logic of Cosmic Horror by any means.

The goal is to create an environment where the story is 100% authentic Lovecraftian, Cosmic Horror to lull the audience into a false sense of security before sweeping the rug out from under them and SURPRISE, IT WAS HEROIC FANTASY ALL ALONG!

And then not have them bitch a lot.

Nyarlathotep isn't just part of the dream, Nyarlathotep is Azathoth's soul.

Telefrag.

...

Then you're on your own for that one.

Theoretically, in purist Lovecraft mythos the only ones capable of killing the Outer Gods are other Outer Gods, or some kind of abstract omnipotent entity.

Demonbane Vortex Blaster.

That's a tough one, considering by Lovecraftian norms the Horrors are so incomprehensible humans can't even fathom them, just glimpsing part of them -- or even learning of them or their effect of the real world, "The Mound" shows this -- is a mind-melting experience.
They are, in essence, their own internal logic, so one would need to disrupt them and thus everything that holds reality together.
If you really wanted to, you could have some way of your players directing an Outer God against another one, like points out. But getting their attention is maddening and they don't care/notice for humans. So you would be disrupting the cosmic horror of insignificance and dismal reality right there. Unfortunately for you, subverting cosmic horror based off of insignificance and the inferiority of humanity is difficult to change without disrupting all of the cosmic horror feeling.

I bet Randolph Carter could do it.

Sphere of Annihilation and the well of planes. Might fuck up those on the planes affected by having dreamer "forget" about them.

Write the fanfiction and let us know

All good answers.

This is the best one, though. Teleporting stars/plants/other space rocks to their exact location sounds hilarious.

>40Kids: Chaos
>Everyone else who is 100% correct in their answer: Lovecraftian
Although if you think Derlethian shit is canon then probably Chaos

Chaos gods exist on a galactic scale. Lovecraftian gods exist on a multiversal scale. It's not even a contest.

You'd have the xxydhng the fvhunkn while dhkning the fknonugm. So nothing we'd ever understand, much less be able to achieve.

Didn't Cthulhu get knocked out by a boat?

>lovecraft
>sooper spoopy monsters with names that melt your brain
>consistently defeated by a weird guy who embraces the insanity
>chaos
>spiky edgelords channeling 80's b-movies way too hard
>killed by shooting them real good.
It's a toss up.

he was a mere high priest instead of a god

This. I am a huge 40kFanboy, but chaos would be stomped by them, the only thing, even if literally all of mankind would worship the Ruineos Powers and you go for the "Power of Faith" that Chaos kinda has, they could, at absolute best hope to somehow stop them from entering their Galaxy, but in no way stop them.
The Question now is could Gork and Mork fight them?

That's still not very impressive. What stories involve the more powerful outer god guys?

That was more a case of "Are the stars right yet? No, way too early, I'm going back to sleep." The boat was rather coincidental.

Can you point me moments in the fluff of correctly written chaotic gods ?
Even in other media, I'm fine with hearing about Moorcock's Chaos Dukes.

>Tch... Nothing personnel... Yy'fngh'rolg

Defeated? Oh, hardly. The people that get defeated are people whose plans ultimately failed. Even in the Dunwich Horror they never defeat the ~god~, they manage to send his barely grown son back through the dimensional barriers. They didn't defeat any god at all, just a baby demigod barely out of it's cradle.

Not this guy but Cthulhu didn't really notice the boat if I recall well. He regenerated in a matter of seconds. It was a way for Lovecraft to show how the most heavy and powerful machinery made by man at the time at the time was unable to harm the creature.

Elric at the End of Time.
Corwin from Zelazney's Amber series.
Seriously, Loki at any given time.

Basically, you'd have to do one of two things: force the outer gods to play by the rules of reality or transcend those rules. It's the difference between binding something that transcends existence and reason and becoming its equivalent. How you achieve that is arbitrary, those are your only two options.

who would win the chaos gods from warhammer or from the elric saga

Its actually possible to seal away Chaos gods and sever their connection entirely from the material realm, a thing that the necrons tried.

Its impossible to defeat lovecraft gods since they are literally the material world.

Chaos gods are invaders from another plane of existence. Lovecraft gods are our plane of existence.

The Outer Gods can't be defeated while remaining the Outer Gods in any meaningful way. They *are* cosmic nihilistic horror and if you take them out of that context (which is the only way to have any sort of interaction beyond "you fail and nothing you did ever actually mattered ") then they aren't themselves any longer. Particularly Azathoth, who is less of a character and more a personification of the Mythos' fundamental worldview. He can't really be interacted with or even localized and pointed at since EVERYTHING is part of him, and presumably just as much actually him as the big ol meatball people always depict him as.

...

I think the real question is this.
Who would win?

All of those forces combined?
Or the Black Blade?

Elric saga. Warhammer Gods operate on a medieval fantasy setting and one galaxy.

The Lords of the Higher Worlds operate on several multiverses.

A race of advanced aliens who can predict the future can't even defeat a lesser lovecraftian god.

Azathoth wakes up and the warp, along with everything else in existence, ceases to be real.

No one cares and neither would they

Whoever the writer favors you irredeemable stain.

I'm not really familiar with Elric. Isn't this blade basically empowered by fate itself to bring balance to order and chaos in the universe?

Yes and no. It's empowered by fate itself but it's chaotic in nature so it seeks to wreak havoc across reality. The Eternal Champion is both its jailer and its slave as is the blade.

In other words, Lovecraft Gods and Chaos Gods ain't got shit on this utter OP of an entity.

Lovecraft: can be defeated by a steamboat
Chaos: delegates ineffectually to man with no arms

Call it a draw.

That does bring up a point: Are there any settings where the ancient, top layer elder gods are weak, ineffectual, or otherwise basically useless?

Elric Saga, definitely. When the chaos dukes and the Lords of Law fought in person the world was destroyed.

The setting for the 1st edition of Dark Heresy, the Calixis Sector, handled this remarkably well. The 'big four' make little to no appearance anywhere in the sourcebooks or modules, except to be obtusely named as incomprehensible beings of little rhyme or reason. Of all the cults in various sourcebooks, only two are actually devoted to one of the big four, and one of those only tenuously.

Most cultists don't really know anything about the big four or their machinations (or even, necessarily, that they exist at all) and your average imperial citizen barely knows chaos exists as something other than 'that weird thing on the other side of reality that very occasionally bubbles over'.

Chaos is generally depicted as madness, greed, hedonism, or a combination of all three, and never with any order or structure that is not enforced with murderous fury, with all the fragility that that entails.

BLACK BLADE

They may be the same beings.

Cthulhu is not a god.

If think that when OP spoke about lovecraftian gods he meant guys like Azathoth

How. How did this get so many replies

Lovecraft. Azathoth is sleeping one off, Yog-Sothoth is really chill and Nyarlathotep cosplays as The Joker.

they remind me of something

Horrible zamboni/c4 incident.

The wonderful thing about Veeky Forums is that obvious bait threads can sometimes result in decent discussion.

I want to say "old Veeky Forums's spirit lives on", but it is more likely "fuck Chaos/40K wank"

all right 40kids its time to go to bed now.
even though the chaos gods are strong and all,
if you believe lovecraftian gods are something you can "win" against you didnt understand them

Whoever stays on my good side.

Interesting, so in other words we'd just have to. multiply.. the phase...variance and...sing....SING THE SONG OF THE SPHERES.

THEY GO OOOWAWA OOOWAWA

>666
>SONG OF THE SPHERES
>OOOWAWA OOOWAWA

Old Man Henderson & Hastur-chan?
1d4chan.org/wiki/Old_Man_Henderson

Mah boi Carter is probably the only one to ever slightly annoy pharaoh Nyarlatothep, what would he do if he realized his powers instead of fighting alongside vampire artists and militarized cats?

They both would be defeated by the power of Jesus.

very good idea actually

azathoth is the universe.

chaos is tumors growing within his being

alternately, azathoth just wakes up and we're done

Nyar is basically the only sentient Outer God, at least by our definition of the word. Azathoth is basically a celestial tumor that dreamt up our reality, and Shub is an animal that exists to birth. Beyond that there's things like Yog-Sothoth which kinda just does what it wants and doesn't lean towards fucking with us (unless it does), and countless imprisoned Great Old Ones that are waiting to fuck us up.

Great Old Ones are physical beings, the stars weren't right, and Cthulhu regenerated near immediately. Outer Gods don't properly exist the way anything else does, so we're properly fucked if we try to fight them physically.

The black sword is a weapon designed to be able to destroy all of reality.
The fuck is a bunch of low rent Chaos mooks and space squids gonna do to it?

my father would beat me if he saw me reading that

So if Azathoth is both everything itself on top of having created anything... how do we know about it? Why does it have a name? If we are all dreams of Azathoth, what sense does it make for us to perceive it in any way?

...

First you have to believe, not in the me that believes in you, but in the you that believes in yourself.

Fampai he doesn't exist he's just literature

To detail how truly fragile and insignificant humanity is when telling stories about cosmic horrors.

Imagine that you're dead asleep when a roach runs across your face. "Goddammit!" you mutter as you stumble out of bed and, bleary-eyed, try to stomp the little fucker. But it scurries out into the hall, and in chasing it, you run face-first smack into the partly-opened door of your room. Staggering back a few steps, you clutch your head and mutter "fuck it" before throwing yourself back on your bed and passing out again.

Well, a lot of people are arguing that the chaos gods make up reality, so maybe something that breaks reality itself, like some kind of particle accelerater gun?

Sorry, elder gods, not chaos gods

So who is Azathoth when he wakes up? Does he have his own reality?