Tropes you love

There was an extended bit of this in the first book of Wheel of Time, where the party split in three and each sub-group had doubts about the survival of the others but kept going anyway. It really helped to develop the characters as they weren't in a giant blob.

I like the opposite of this trope
>super skilled character busies themselves with mundane pursuits

I always thought 47 ronin would make a great series if someone took the time to write a seperate story for each of the warriors

Interesting idea. They wouldn't have to be long, maybe just a chapter where you get a unique perspective on what they're doing or how it makes them feel.

You do k ow how fate works, right? It's kind of all-or-nothing. If someone is capable of defying fate, that proves the nonexistence of fate. The thing you love is an absurd contradiction.

>Good guy is fighting for a bad cause.

Rommel, Zhou Enlai, et al.

>Bad guy is fighting for a good cause.

Shu in Suikoden

>Heroes have to team up with BBEG to fight GIGA-BBEG

Hnnng

>has no idea what a BBEG is

If you don't know, just say "villain".

What is Kingdoms of Amalor? Fate can exist and not be suddenly proven to not exist simply because someone defies their lot by bending it.

> Neutral side gets sick of shit and stops being neutral.
That is my favorite trope, especially when they beat the shit out of the previous existing sides.

>It's kind of all-or-nothing. If someone is capable of defying fate, that proves the nonexistence of fate. The thing you love is an absurd contradiction.

TES plays at fate subversion rather well I think. Everybody has a predetermined fate/course in life (Akatosh). Except, of course, for the player character, which is what makes them special. Fate (Akatosh) doesn't know what exactly what the fuck you'll do. In the Dragonborn's case, things were a bit different given their aspected soul and the Champion of Cyrodil's importance being prompted by the Emperor, but for the other protagonists, (and to a lesser extent even the previous two), their being un/loosely bound by fate shows that protag style kleptomania and trespassing is fettered only by fate.

>Fate can exist and not be suddenly proven to not exist simply because someone defies their lot by bending it.
They were fated to do that :^)

In most instances yes, this is exactly what's happens which is lame and annoying. In the example I gave the person you play as is literally unbound from fate, there are people who can actually read others fate and tell them where their life will go. When they try it on you, there's nothing, no fate to follow, you are a blank slate who will succeed or fail on your own, even going so far that you change the fate of others around you with your actions. There is another option it's just no one bothers to explore it.

>practical evil business man

Fate is some supernatural means by which events are predetermined. This is only logically possible if everything connected by interaction is accounted for and also predetermined. One part of a system can't be indeterminate while everything else in that system is determined. That would mean the one indeterminate thing would be incapable of affecting anything else in the system, wbich means it would effectively not exist from the system's perspective and vice-versa.

Rommel was your usual nazi. I don't know where the meme came from. He was just chilling when overseeing his people execute PoWs and doing other atrocities. He was also a racist.

Using your own system example that is false because a glitch that happens in one that was not predetermined can still affect the system. Also if we're talking about supernatural that means we're involving shit that bends normal logic and I stand by what I've said. It is entirely possible to have fate exist and still have something happen to trigger someone(s) being unbound from it and now affect it since you have a glitch messing up otherwise perfectly accounted for systems.

>Hero fights despite not having any stamina left
>Any type of last stand
>s-cry-ed type endings

>That would mean the one indeterminate thing would be incapable of affecting anything else in the system
Why would that logically follow? There's a fated plan for most things and, oops, looks like this anomaly ruined that plan, so the divine/cosmic plan must adjust for [EVENT] it hadn't considered.

In TES, this means time breaks [i.e. dragon breaks] and, although a mind fuck, everything adjusts.

That game was actually pretty good, too bad Schilling fucked the whole thing up and cost the state of Rhode Island like 75 million dollars.

The problem is writing 47 unique characters who are all ronin, fleshing them out inside of a chapter while also telling the larger story.

It's like playing L5R; you have to deliberately work hard to make each character seem different, because they all share so many things in common. Even clan differences are relatively minor unless you play it full to the hilt stereotype every time.

>Villain with a set of morals written in stone, refuses to be underhanded and cheap.
Koragg was amazing. His unwavering loyalty for the Master combined with his universal honor was truly inspiring.
Lianbow doesn't exist and Koragg was always a seperate entity in my headcanon.

Ooh, I can get behind this as well. I've really enjoyed a couple stories with OP characters who confront challenges their powers are utterly useless at.

Maoyuu Maou Yuusha

Yeah feels bad man

It would be the end of fate at the very least. Nothing that ever interacted with the non-fated thing would ever be predictable by fate again, nor would anything that interacted with those things, and so on in a great cascading fate-destroying wave.

In Exalted (2e, at least. Not caught up on 3e) Fate was a very real thing, that was also physically represented by a giant web in not-heaven, tended to by a ton of tiny fateweaving spiders. It was possible to disconnect from Fate, or for characters to come from another plane (Autochthon) and as a result not be accounted for in Fate. This led to lots of weird effects until the spiders sorted it out and got everything lined back up.

“Batman”

This.

>implying that makes him a bad guy

>Evil guy steps in to defeat 3° bigger evil alongside heroes.

Eh. Batman kinda counts, I suppose? Same with Iron Man. Both have the themes of being totally normal humans who fight against and alongside crazy super-powered people, primarily using their own ingenuity. However, both also are fabulously wealthy and end up having an arsenal of gear which may as well be super powers in their own right, in addition to Batman's crazy martial-arts training. This means they kinda lose the theme of mundane humanity struggling against the impossible.

The couple examples of what I enjoy in underpowered protagonists come from anime/manga. In the manga Iris Zero, the majority of the population have the ability to see something supernatural (one can see recent lies, one can see approaching death, etc.) but the protagonist totally lacks this ability. Despite his deficiency, he solves problems through critical thinking and being observant. In the anime Rokka no Yuusha, Adlet Meyer fights alongside/against individuals with crazy saint-magic or just really impressive martial arts while he's fairly weak at combat and has no supernatural abilities. He relies on a variety of alchemical items which are all fairly simple on their own but which are used to clever effects.

Except for everything and everyone not affected by the actions of the PC and that a new fate extends from the point of their actions once reality adjusts, which it would have hundreds of years to do between protags. That's plenty of time to adjust the webs once things become predictable again.

Tolbrinth the farmer didn't originally have his fate set to cross paths with the Nerevarine, and although his stolen crop of ash yams wasn't accounted for, fate adjusts to the break from that point on, where, so long as the Nerevarine doesn't come back to rummage through his things again, his life will be return to a sort of fate.
Fate, in TES, isn't absolute and it can be changed.

I think of it like an intricate rube goldberg machine set up by whatever force determines fate. An unknown agent walks in and moves things around in a way that can't be fixed, but adjust to. The majority of the machine runs as originally planned. What can't be reset to it's original path has a new path that you just have to accept as a new sort of fate that becomes more predictable the further removed it is from the chaotic agent.

>coming back from retirement
Especially if it's the evil guys. Sadly it's usually not done right

I'm still mad about Naruto, specifically for Rock Lee.
They setup a struggle between hard work and talent and for a few shining episodes you've got sheer effort winning for it's golden moment, then for the rest of the show, to the point of DBZ light shows, talent takes off at a sprint.

Isaac Clarke
youtube.com/watch?v=mDdF7A6NNSU

When I see mundane I don’t personally go to Joe Everyman, simply realistically grounded in human capability. Hence why I would suggest Batman, and most of the Batfamily, but not Ironman, who has gained a degree of superhuman abilities over time in ways that rigorous human conditioning cannot accomplish.

But I suppose if you’re after it being Mr. Everyman then yeah. Not as common.

The Cradle series by Will Wight is a great one about that. They’re not perfect works of literature, but they’re definitely a lot of fun. The first book is called unsouled.

I highly suggest you check them out. The outsmarting portion becomes less prevalent as things go on, but the character definitely operates from a standpoint of trying to outsmart everyone he can.

the Lucifer comics dealt with it properly. Nearly everything was predetermined, except for the end of the days where God tried to make it as loose as possible so he won't know what will happen (and he left the creations before that and waited who will come for him, being it a surprise to him)

Goshdarnit, I know this pain. I love Rock Lee's concept, seeing a character with a legit disability at a massive disadvantage compared to the rest of the cast, but who's willing to face it with enthusiasm and determination. Man, that gets me. Then they shat all over him.

Okay yeah, this sounds like it. Maybe I should check out Dead Space.

Yeah, I suppose they're two different things- Technically human but very impressive in a number of overt ways versus closer to Joe Everyman whose main strength has to do with how they approach the world around them.

Sounds up my alley, thanks!

The chosen one gets btfo so some random guy has to defeat the bbeg wihout dicine help

>science fails to explain magic

bonus if theres an autist getting bothered by it

>Substantial size difference within a couple, bonus if the big one is the women

>the protag pushing forward despite injury/huge disadvantages and pulling a win through sheer grit and the knowledge all their friends are counting on them.

...

>science fails to explain magic
i mean any time that happens today they just implicate a previously unknown scalar field

>Vengeful rages after someone crosses the line
>Homies fighting alongside each other with a deep respect and admiration
Good example is Nishiki and Kiryu in Yakuza 0
>fighting even in a dying state

I get emotional over this shit

Least favorite that I've had recent encounter: "Humble farm boy turns into chivalrous adventurer :DDD" I don't HATE it, but I've seen it so often and often it's boring when roleplayed by players.

oglaf.com/sooth/

I prefer
>science technically could explain magic, but the "rational" characters are so married to their current paradigm that they'll never be able to understand it

Rock Lee is a failure who accomplished nothing. His only victories were against a fake version of himself and a twelve year old.

>villainous breakdown

>Fiercely loyal character refuses to believe his master/ friend has been corrupted/ betrayed them
>But then the master/ friend reveals its all true
>And the Loyal guy beats the shit out them after being shell-shocked by the revelation for a short time

>The heros' actions are not enough to save the day, but the common people are galvanized by their actions and come together to destroy the great evil

Minebrethrenofnubiandescent.png

>The jaded old asshole who's been rude and bitter to everyone the entire time is the first one to throw themselves into the fire to save another.
>The reason they are so pissed off is that they were once idealistic and the world beat them down
>They secretly always knew the world was a good place, and were only pissed off that so few rose up to defend it

>Evil is actually shown to be foolish and self destructive. Only serving short term satisfaction for long term pain and suffering for everyone including the primary villain.
>Evil villain even with all his power and wealth is a miserable fuck because nothing will ever be enough

Oh boy, Ive got some confessions

>Ancient advanced civilization knew all of the secret knowledge of the universe and left their wisdom behind in hidden places that wouldn't get destroyed by time
>The badass action girl actually does want to settle down with a dependable guy and have kids after she's had her adventures.
>The eccentric mechanically minded character who builds weapons for the heroes who is never quite fully appreciated by the protagonists
>Humanity was once beset by great evils that we defeated then forgot about because we got distracted by infighting
>Ancient gods are not as powerful as they were made out to be, it was just superstitious locals exaggerating things throughout time
>Artifacts can only be activated by people of certain dispositions and alignments
>Magic can only be performed by people with a loose grip on reality

>Characters who know how pointless their efforts are, or already know that they are dying, still doing the thing anyway
>Bonus points if they're doing it because it's "the right thing to do"
>The villain being genuinely surprised that another person could be doing something for reasons other than it benefitting themselves
>Ignoring your own pain and suffering to get back at whatever caused harm to their friends
>One last night of calm before the party goes into what is most likely their certain doom
>Bonus points if it involves revealing the final secrets between friends
>Extra bonus points for a character's downtime activities to be acknowledged and respected by the group

I find this post ironic because:
>The villains henchman is a corrupted hero and needs to be restored the rejoin good guys
is one of my favorite tropes because of Lianbow/Koragg
Mystic force is ironically the best power rangers

>Ancient advanced civilization knew all of the secret knowledge of the universe and left their wisdom behind in hidden places that wouldn't get destroyed by time
I know it's cliche, but I also love it. It helps drive home the age of the world and the age of the threat (if the ancients were also fighting whatever the PCs are), it gives great places for players to explore, stuff for historian PCs to dig their teeth into... I just love it.

>The badass action girl actually does want to settle down with a dependable guy and have kids after she's had her adventures.
I'm totally down with this as long as it's handled well. Wanting to put aside bloodshed once piece has been achieved is admirable and good, just don't want to make it feel like the character abruptly changes into a different person.

>The eccentric mechanically minded character who builds weapons for the heroes who is never quite fully appreciated by the protagonists
A solid NPC archetype for likable and helpful without ever threatening to overshadow the PCs.

>Humanity was once beset by great evils that we defeated then forgot about because we got distracted by infighting
Works well with the theme of "stronger together". Shows that humanity is capable of getting shit done if we'd just stop murdering each other for a bit.

>Ancient gods are not as powerful as they were made out to be, it was just superstitious locals exaggerating things throughout time
I see this more as a comedy reveal, kinda like Oglaf's Sithrak, where the gods are completely unlike what the mortals think they are. Bonus points are actively trying to convince the mortals of this but the mortals won't listen.

>Magic can only be performed by people with a loose grip on reality
Helps explain why spellcasters often have very little sense of morality and/or are totally off their rockers. Also makes sense that to bend reality you need to be able to see beyond it.

>>long standing enemies become friends
OP that picture is gay as fuck and you know it.

Never had a piggyback ride from your bro?

This

That being said I love Greek oracles in fiction, knowing the future and being unable to change it is my lit fetish.

Cassandra is top tier

Rand al'Thor did nothing wrong.

>BBEG has a point

>Villains are unapologetic villains. They may think they're right, but they don't have long dramatic soliloquies about the Greater Good as they build their death camps
>Hero has to choose between sacrificing themselves or saying fuck that and leaving
>your side may not be on the up and up
>The Rebels may be flawed but they're still the good guys
>BBEG is always felt but rarely if ever seen
>The Dragon character never has to actually throw down because he's got minions to do that
>Bad guys wear Nazi Uniforms
>The rough n' tough commando

>It looks like all is lost
>The hero is about to be killed
>Suddenly, something kills the enemy that was about to kill the hero
>It's the hero's reinforcements

>Bbeg is wrong
>Centuries later, is still fucking wrong, and gets btfo by a troll force ghost

>Great warrior/hero removes mask/helmet revealing that they're a woman
>Hero turns evil but is won back to the good fight by the power of friendship

I like it when the protagonist is no match for the antagonist(s) and has to defeat them by being genuinely clever. bonus points if its something the audience had all the information to figure out, or exploiting some quirk in either of their abilities, and we didn't put it together before they did

that's fantasy storytelling 101, not a trope

>momma bird protecting adopted children

I liked a A certain magical Index for that. It's a novel, but has anime.
MC has a power to dispel magic and supernatural with his right arm and gight mages and espers. His power works only at his arm up to the elbow. Anything other that that - and he's dead. Later we find out he is not an ordinary guy but a host for an artifact, but that is rather a truth of power's origin without increasing his powerlevel. Even his power-up is rather an utility of his main power that something new and stronger.
His first big enemy was a mage, who had flaming elemental, who recovered immediately after being dispelled, because mage covered everything in papers with runes. He was defeated by
activating fire alarm and water destroying ink on the papers.

And mostly heroes are being outclassed until he gets some weaknesses or conditions to their enemy's power to defeat him.

>old soldiers
>fighting to the last
Gets me every time