Desired scans : Rank and File supplements Harpoon 3 & 4 supplements Force on Force supplements Hind Commander At Close Quarters War and Conquest Modern Spearhead The Face Of Battle General d'Armee (TFL version) Swordpoint
Oliver Cruz
December the 15th in military history:
533 – Vandalic War: Byzantine general Belisarius defeats the Vandals, commanded by King Gelimer, at the Battle of Tricamarum. 1161 – Jin–Song wars: Military officers conspire against Emperor Hailing of the Jin dynasty after a military defeat at the Battle of Caishi, and assassinate the emperor at his camp. 1467 – Stephen III of Moldavia defeats Matthias Corvinus of Hungary, with the latter being injured thrice, at the Battle of Baia. 1778 – American Revolutionary War: British and French fleets clash in the Battle of St. Lucia. 1864 – American Civil War: Battle of Nashville: Union forces under George Thomas almost completely destroy the Army of Tennessee under John Hood. 1890 – Hunkpapa Lakota leader Sitting Bull is killed on Standing Rock Indian Reservation, leading to the Wounded Knee Massacre. 1914 – World War I: The Serbian Army recaptures Belgrade from the invading Austro-Hungarian Army. 1917 – World War I: An armistice between Russia and the Central Powers is signed. 1942 – World War II: The Battle of Mount Austen, the Galloping Horse, and the Sea Horse begins during the Guadalcanal Campaign. 1943 – World War II: The Battle of Arawe begins during the New Britain Campaign. 1960 – King Mahendra of Nepal suspends the country's constitution, dissolves parliament, dismisses the cabinet, and imposes direct rule. 1981 – A suicide car bombing targeting the Iraqi embassy in Beirut, Lebanon, levels the embassy and kills 61 people, including Iraq's ambassador to Lebanon. The attack is considered the first modern suicide bombing. 2005 – Introduction of the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor into USAF active service. 2006 – First flight of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II.
William Jenkins
It is 153 years since the Battle of Nashville, a two-day battle that represented the end of large-scale fighting in the Western Theater of the American Civil War. It was fought between the Confederate Army of Tennessee under Lieutenant General John Bell Hood and Federal forces under Major General George H. Thomas. In one of the largest victories achieved by the Union during the war, Thomas routed Hood's army, largely destroying it as an effective fighting force.
The battle was the finale in a disastrous year for Hood’s forces. The rebels lost a long summer campaign for Atlanta, Georgia, in September 1864 when Hood abandoned the city to the army of William T. Sherman. Hood then took his diminished force north into Tennessee. He hoped to draw Sherman out of the Deep South, but Sherman had enough troops to split his force and send part of it to chase Hood into Tennessee. Sherman airily indicated that this was exactly what he wanted and that if Hood "continues to march North, all the way to Ohio, I will supply him with rations."
At Spring Hill, Tennessee, the Confederates allowed a Union division to escape from Columbia and pass by them unmolested to Franklin, a small town south of Nashville. Enraged over this missed opportunity, Hood ordered futile frontal assaults at Franklin against entrenched Federals, many of whom were armed with repeating rifles. The fierce, five-hour Battle of Franklin on November 30 decimated his force and cost him a division commander and four brigadier generals. Undeterred, he continued on and besieged Thomas’ larger force at Nashville.
There, Hood constructed works along a five-mile-long line south of the city. Between the 8,000 men lost at Franklin and those detached under Nathan Bedford Forrest, who had been sent to capture Murfreesboro, Hood’s army was down to about 20,000 men. He hoped to draw Thomas into attacking him. After repulsing those attacks, Hood reasoned, he would counterattack and take the city.
Alexander Foster
Thomas had 70,000 men, over 55,000 of which he planned to use as maneuver troops. A severe ice storm halted operations until December 15. As the two sides glared at each other from their ice-bound entrenchments, Lieutenant General Ulysses S. Grant, unaware of the severity of the weather conditions, repeatedly sent telegrams from the East urging Thomas to move out of his works and attack the enemy. Thomas had been nicknamed "Old Slow-trot" before the war, when he restrained West Point cadets from galloping their horses. Grant referred to him by that old nickname because he felt Thomas was too slow in his movements in the field. When no action occurred in response to his telegrams, Grant sent an officer to observe the situation; that officer also carried an order relieving Thomas of command.
While Grant’s emissary was still on a Tennessee-bound train, the weather broke. Union troops moved out of their defenses, southeast along the Murfreesboro Road to assail and pin the Confederate right, and west along and between the Charlotte and Harding pikes. The lead troops on the Murfreesboro Road were inexperienced soldiers of the United States Colored Troops. They took shelter from Confederate rifle fire in a railroad cut, only to be enfiladed and cut to pieces by a previously unseen artillery battery. One Confederate soldier wrote disgustedly, "Where were those men’s officers? I did not see a single white body on that field." Other Federal troops of Maj. Gen. James Steedman’s command succeeded in keeping the Confederate right pinned, to prevent reinforcements against the main attack.
The westward movement went almost exactly according to Thomas’ plan. After driving off a small force west of town, the Federals swung southeast as if on a hinge. They outflanked a group of Confederate redoubts and drove the Rebels south. When morning dawned on the second day, the over-extended Confederate line had been compressed into roughly the shape of an upside-down U.
Jayden Brooks
The western bend in the line was anchored on the heights of Shy’s Hill, the eastern bend atop the slopes of Peach Orchard (Overton’s) Hill. Federal assaults against the Hill, which had to be made over the tops of trees that the Confederates had felled on the slopes, met tremendous fire from the 2,000 infantrymen and supporting artillery of Lt. Gen. Steven D. Lee’s Corps. Some 6,000 Federals, including two divisions of USCT, made valiant attempts against the position but were repulsed. So many Union soldiers died on the slopes that it was said a person could walk from the top of the hill to the bottom without touching the ground.
Shy’s Hill was a different story. Around 4:00 p.m., two Union corps plus cavalry, over 40,000 men in all, attacked 5,000 under Maj. Gen. William Bate. Confederate artillery had been positioned in such a way that once the advancing Federals reached a certain point on the slope, the guns could not fire at them. The blue line swept over the crest, capturing most of the defenders.
The hill became known as Shy’s Hill after the battle. Confederate Colonel William Shy, of Franklin, was among the defenders. His body was later found on the hill, bayoneted to a tree, a bullet hole in his forehead. Controversy still continues over which side was actually responsible.
With the Shy’s Hill anchor gone, the rest of Hood’s line collapsed and fled toward Franklin. Darkness and exhaustion prevented effective pursuit, and the rag-tag remnants of the Army of Tennessee continued on to Tupelo, Mississippi, where Hood resigned his command. For his overwhelming victory, Thomas became one of only 13 officers to receive the Thanks of Congress in the war and was promoted from brigadier general in the regular U.S. Army to major general, U.S. Army.
Union losses in the fighting at Nashville numbered 387 killed, 2,558 wounded, and 112 captured/missing, while Hood lost around 1,500 killed and wounded as well as around 4,500 captured/missing.
Aiden Butler
The Battle of Nashville marked the effective end of the Army of Tennessee. Historian David Eicher remarked, "If Hood mortally wounded his army at Franklin, he would kill it two weeks later at Nashville." Although Hood blamed the entire debacle on his subordinates and the soldiers themselves, his career was over. He retreated with his army to Tupelo, Mississippi, resigned on January 13, 1865, and was not given another field command.
But the drama of the battle continued into the next century. On Christmas Eve 1977 a headless body was discovered next to a newly opened grave in Williamson County, Tennessee. The head was found nearby. The body was clothed in what appeared to be a tuxedo. The matter was referred to the state medical examiner who determined that this was a homicide, that the victim was a white male, 5' 11" tall, weighing 173 lbs., and approximately 26 years of age. The medical examiner further determined that the cause of death was a large caliber bullet wound to the head, and that the man had been dead for 6 to 12 months. Everything but the time of death was correct; the body was that of Colonel Shy, who had died defending the hill bearing his name 113 years before. The newly opened grave was his, and he had apparently been exhumed by grave robbers in search of Civil War collectibles. The remarkable state of preservation was due to the fact that Colonel Shy had been buried in a sealed cast iron coffin (also found nearby) and had been embalmed with a fluid heavily laced with arsenic.
Colonel Shy was reinterred with appropriate military honors. The cast iron coffin is on display at the Carter House in Franklin.
Jose Thomas
Nashville is a classic example of a late-ACW meatgrinder, where the battles had begun to prefigure the trench assaults of later years. It is a situation where strategic maneuver is all-important, and would be best played at the divisional level (6mm/10mm) to properly simulate this. (The Polemos rules or Longstreet are well suited for it.) The Western Theatre doesn't get as much attention as the Eastern, and this is one of its main battles. Also it's yet another good example of how personalities were such an issue among the leadership of the ACW.
First time playing black powder in 15mm the other day, dumping some model porn for you boys
Lucas Thomas
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Justin Price
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Alexander Stewart
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Angel Rogers
Its $15 on wargame vault...
Ethan Russell
To the user that recommended "With Zeal and Bayonets Only," a few threads back.
Thanks! It was an interesting read, and it's given me a lot of inspiration for my AWI stuff.
Lucas Butler
> Someome on Veeky Forums wanting to actually support their hobby
The end draws near, children.
Ryan White
Not into civil war stuff but thanks for posting user!
Connor Bailey
Red sun Red Death for Disposable heroes ; someone told me he could upload this supplement ; did you succeed ? thanks again for your work !
Lincoln Watson
Thank you for the information but I wanted to check them out... I fear they may be over detailed.
Asher Thompson
Looks like the ruleset contains 3 levels of detail, so you can choose the lighter version if you want.
But if you read the brief its based on an old GDW/GHQ game - supposedly "the most detailed set of rules ever written for the open market while still remaining playable" It also looks like it requires a GM.
If you look at the preview on wargame vault you can see how detailed the units and weapons are. Do you really want something this crunchy?
Samuel Sanchez
>perry minis doing a line of pre-painted ACW minis
Fucking neat.
Jeremiah Reed
Cold war question from the last thread, Didn't seem to get reply notifications. Cheers for the replies.
Ethan Adams
What this says is that it´s a lousy profile not that the game is crunchy. In any case IF there any has this file available it would be awesome.
Carter Torres
Requesting scans of 3W's Wargamer and XTR's Command magazines with or without games.
Thanks in advance for any help on this.
Jeremiah Foster
How's 8th grade going?
Caleb Gray
>How's 8th grade going? Don't understand
Adam Jenkins
He's criticising your ESL mannerisms.
Josiah Howard
^^ i'm not sorry to be polite ;) I will get better if i could have this supplement for Disposable Heroes !
Brayden Baker
Maybe if you'd tell us the question.
Zachary Sullivan
After I found the need to paint up some Afghans, I realized I only have a few Elhiem figures laying around for them, and then that force, or at least what I have for them, are complete. I also realized how much I love these minis.
So please share pics of painted Elhiem stuff. I'll take some pics of my Afghans tomorrow as they are packed away in their travel box, but till then, have some Under Fire Taliban.
Jose Stewart
Requesting pdf scans of VG's Flashpoint: Golan rule and scenario books.
Nicholas Davis
Comrade! i'm happy to report that the fucking thing has more protection than a nun's virginity.
Can't unsecure the pdf, can't print to pdf, can't change the pdf or add notes.
Until I get the freakin' will to waste three hours to manually remove all data, or the money to print it , erase all my data, and rescan it, it's a no buy.
Dunnow, send me 10 bucks of cheap models for Christmas and I can provide, Or maybe it's easier to buy the fucking thing.
Sebastian Robinson
Not sure if these are Elhiem or not.
I just bought some AB miniatures. The metal isn't quite as hard as Elhiem (I suspect higher Pb content) but they're really nice sculpts. WW2 only though. Under Fire minis mix well with Elhiem stuff, they make some Afghan figures.
Josiah Flores
AB is really nice, although rather expensive. I'd like to get some stuff from them, but first I need to get through the huge pile of plastics I've got.
On pic: Zvezda minikit, painted up as USMC with M16s. Kinda wish they gave a standard M16 to the pointing guy instead of an M203.
Charles White
Bit of an unusual question here. Have any of you got some experience with painting one handed ? Just broke my left arm, but the urge to paint hasn't dissappeared, wondered if any of you could be of help with alternative ways to hold and handle miniatures without actually "handling" them. My current setup is masking tape folded over itself on top of a US canteen filled with water to give it some wheight so it stays in place but it's far from perfect.(pic related).
Cooper Russell
God Emperor eternal, that was a mess. let's hope I didn't fail to delete all the data, doxxing myself on Veeky Forums for some pdf would be hilarious.
That said, it's the shittiest DH supplement. Marines are superhuman murdermachines and the Japs have all the meme rules you can think of (on-board mass seppuku included).
I'll probably de-secure DH2 next, if someone cares.
Ian Miller
Hi ! i've got a mac mini and it's very easy to remove protection with OS apple ! i open the file and do as i want to print it and export it as a new pdf and that's it : protection removed ! :) Do you want my mail otherwise ? Send me the file and i'll erase everything : protection, mail, name, etc...
Matthew Long
Thanks a lot my friend !!!
Nicholas Russell
Blutac it on your broken arm.
This hobby takes a lot of pain.
Henry Nelson
I am a genius. Fucked up the uploading. I need a drink.
If you have DH 2 rulebook and the 1st supplement Blood and Guts v2, i'll be happy too ^^
Bentley Miller
I think has the right idea, stick them to your pot.
Samuel Perry
Looking for By Fire and Sword - Danish War
Joshua Cox
What does /hwg/ think about 2mm wargaming?
Gabriel Green
It's a step too far for me, though I can see the appeal for the limited area of putting a whole formation of pike and shot on a single normal sized base.
Carter Ramirez
almost anything below 10mm is a no no for me.
Michael Wood
Pretty cool that people take the dedication to paint and base shit that small...but really..at that point why just not use counters.....
Different strokes and all but, for me, it's what ASLanon said. At that point why not use counters?
A large part of minis and figs is SEEING them, seeing the sculpting, the details, the colors, etc. I say that and still I'm a guy who routinely plays minis rules with cardboard rectangles cut to base sizes and marked with ink.
I can admired the dedication and skill involved with painting 2mm, but it's not for me.
Cooper Ward
I could see the appeal if you're doing something truly massive, like a complete recreation of a battle.
Adrian Hernandez
Funny this popped up today, just started a Napoleonic 2mm project I've been putting off for a while. As for opinons, I find that the 3D aspect, no matter how tiny or near insignificant it is just gives 2mm miniatures an edge over any counter. For me it's the addition of that 3rd dimension through a bit of relief for the miniatures themselves and usually a second level in the form of some kind of flag that really gives the impression there is an army before you and not just an agglomeration of fancy bits of paper. Plus you can make them look absolutely spiffing with close to no effort by just spending a little extra time on the flags and emphasising the individual figures in a bloc (Napoleonics are perfect for this, just paint on the shako plumes). For the skeptics, tomorrow I'll try to take some presantable pictures of the Napoleonic frogs I've been working on and you may judge for yourselves.
Isaiah Johnson
I wasn't being a bitch, my post was completely serious. I asked a question about what years would be best for Cold War Gone Hot with balance in mind, got a set of answers, but didn't thank the posters in that thread because for whatever reason I didn't get reply notifications on my phone and didn't check the thread until it was done.
Christopher Hall
15% off GHQ miniatures from their website if you buy $100+
Code is 'WINGS'
Joseph Phillips
I actually asked this because I have seen how cheap 2mm Napoleonics are.
Aaron Fisher
Does anyone have pdfs fpr Wargames Soldiers and Strategy digital?
Christopher Moore
I'm glad you got some use from our answers, user.
I didn't think you were being a bitch in this thread, but then I also remembered the great answers your question sparked in the previous thread.
(I think this link will only work on Firefox, just FYI)
Luke Roberts
Any closer to deciding? I still say '82ish. A little bit of the new toys, no where near enough to decide a war or fill an army.
Lincoln Turner
Ah right, thought maybe you misinterpreted me as being passive aggressive.
Honestly although it's something I do want to play it isn't a first priority, I'll probably get around to it later next year. I want to do some 6mm ancients as a gift to a friend, probably a matched pair of Carthaginian and Roman armies; also two self contained hex based games, WWI aircraft and Napoleonic frigates.
Michael Edwards
>Ah right, thought maybe you misinterpreted me as being passive aggressive. As in I thought I didn't get any replies, rather than me missing the chance to thank the people in that conversation.
Brody Richardson
Alright so I blame Hind & Seek user but I broke down and bought a bunch of 3mm Oddzial Osmy for the Soviet - Afghan war.
Watching some short documentaries on YouTube it struck me that the Soviet conscripts had really bad morale. Now in other wars like Korea or Vietnam the communist system of political indoctrination of the troops seemed very effective. What went wrong in Soviet society that this seems to have not been effective in Afghanistan? Was it the general decay of the Soviet system in the '80s and resultant cynicism? Was it the style of the war (blowing up peasant villages instead of fighting the West)?
Hunter Phillips
In the end its about using the units and tactics you think are fun. Don't worry too much about what would be balanced, as you can always have a points system that gives you balanced engagements. Even if one tank is better than another, you will pay a higher points cost for it so that the game will be balanced. Much of the equipment and tactics were never directly engaged in combat, so there is quite a lot of speculation about how the Soviet and NATO forces would fare against each other. One thing is certain in that it would be incredibly bloody and each side would quickly try to alter tactics and learn from the opponent depending on what worked. Soviet airborne operations using Mi-8s learned from Afghanistan are a lot of fun to use on the tabletop, as are Bolkow Bo-105 AT helis for NATO - which weren't delivered until 1979, so 1982 would be a good year for their use.
I think 1982 is a good choice as it gives you all the fun units to play with. Bo-105s taking out T-62s, but getting trouble from ZSU-23-4 Shilkas, Soviet infantry with Sa-7s taking out NATO aircraft, Soviet heli-borne infiltrating from unexpected positions, or approaching by night complete with BMDs, etc.
I think it would be a fun period to game.
Thomas Perry
>I still say '82ish.
Agree. Early 80s is the best bet. The US is past the post-Nam "hollow army" period and the USSR isn't facing too great a tech gap. That means neither side will be tempted to go nuclear from the opening bell.
Still we're only looking the early non-nuclear period within what WILL become a nuclear war. If the Pact punches through to the Rhine, NATO will escalate with tac-nukes. If a stalemate occurs, both sides will be tempted to break it with tac-nukes, If NATO holds and then goes on the offensive, the USSR will resort to tac-nukes.
And none of those situations address what might occur at sea.
NATO vs. Pact will be a nuclear war. The only question is how soon it takes become a nuclear war.
Mason Howard
>Soviet airborne operations using Mi-8s learned from Afghanistan are a lot of fun to use on the tabletop
Speaking of, is there a good source on this? I have a memory of an Osprey covering this but I couldn't find it.
Brayden Myers
>Soviet conscripts had really bad morale Well they were young conscripts and the situation of being ambushed everywhere you go doesn't exactly make you feel safe...
Saying that the Soviets were still able to pull off some very intricate operations - not all the soldiers were low morale conscripts, many graduated to being decent quality and some made it to veteran status. There are of course special forces and VDV who would be more skilled and with better morale.
If you're interested in the conflict, The Bear Went Over the Mountain is essential reading, even if you just go through a few combat reports (its a collections of combat reports with maps and short commentaries from the editor and the Frunze Soviet military academy)
Good luck! a very interesting and AESTHETIC period to learn about and game.
Alexander Ross
There is no non-nuclear period, unless the war happens by pure accident. The Soviet doctrine of the period in particular mandates offensive action in combination with nukes. There was no change to actual doctrine despite the words of the politicians at the top. If the war would have happened due to it being a declared thing, it's total from moment one.
That's why a wizard is needed to remove the nuclear part.
Mason Martin
The Bear went Over the Mountain is probably the best source of how they conducted airborne operations in that period - pic related.
See the PDF link in
Tyler Lewis
>Well they were young conscripts and the situation of being ambushed everywhere you go doesn't exactly make you feel safe...
That's true, but it seemed they also didn't seem to have any belief in the communist mission either. I mean it wasn't very pleasant to be a North Vietnamese soldier under heavy US air and artillery attack but their belief in the nationalist and communist cause seems to have kept their morale up.
I've read The Bear Went Over the Mountain and a bit of The Other Side of the Mountain (I got bored as they give too many anecdotes of the same type of scenario and the Afghans are much lighter on detail than the Soviets were) but they don't really get into the socio-political side of things as books about Vietnam tend to do.
Xavier Campbell
Part 2 of this combat report.
This is what The Bear Went Over the Mountain (and The Other Side..) is like: 2 page combat reports with a map and a short commentary on the action. Endless combat reports that are incredibly inspirational for tabletop tactics.
247 pages worth of them!
Wyatt Bailey
Afghanistan wasn't "like" Korea or Vietnam, so the simplistic analogies you're looking for don't exist.
From the "commie" side, Korea was first a botched attempt at post-colonial reunification and then a "crusade" by PRC troops fresh from tossing foreign nations out of China. Vietnam in the French period was a straight up war of liberation and then, after partition and the arrival of the US, a war of reunification. Ideological fervor is easy to maintain in those situation.
Afghanistan was an invasion to prop up a puppet government an earlier intervention had set up. The conscripts sent there weren't fighting to defend the "Rodina". Much like the Coalition forces currently wasting lives, time, and treasure in Afghanistan, Soviet forces were supporting one nebulous group of subhuman, medieval, criminal filth against another entirely similar nebulous group of subhuman, medieval, criminal filth while being despised by the subhuman, medieval, criminal population as a whole.
No number of lectures by a commissar is going to be able to "explain" away the facts.
Xavier King
Yes this is true that the average Soviet soldier didn't care too much about Communism and were more of a 'regular 80s capitalist man', somewhat similar to the US soldiers in Vietnam - they wanted to get their service over with and survive. Some were career military but the conscripts generally weren't all that motivated to fight to the death.
If they ended up taking fire most Soviet units would just sit tight and call in support instead of trying anything too suicidal.
Meanwhile Mujahideen are running down hills with RPGs to get better shots at approaching convoys...
I have to admit I never finished either of those books only made it about halfway through each one. They're very long. I got a lot out of the operations I did read about though.
Jaxson Watson
>There is no non-nuclear period, unless the war happens by pure accident.
That's entirely true. The USSR/Pact planned on going with it's full NBC triad from day one.
The West didn't know that, however, until after '89 and the release of documents by what had been the GDR, Poland, and others.
Let's just say the wizard would have an easier time removing the nuclear part around '82 and let the user play their games, okay?
Dylan Garcia
That certainly seems a likely explanation. I was just wondering if there was more to it as in other sources I have read on the Soviets in the late '80s there certainly seems to be less fear of the West (and even envy) by the average Soviet citizen and increasing corruption.
Joshua Russell
Political indocrination has little effect on the morale of troops, regardless of the system you choose to indoctrinate with. What actually helps motivate soldiers, particularly peasant conscripts, is the promise of pushing invaders from their lands, which is how both the Korean war and Vietnamese war were perceived by the average soldier of the Northern powers.
The soviet invasion of afghanistan was not wanted at any level of soviet society, the USSR was dragged in in order to support the local communist parties seizure of power. Leaving the deeply unpopular communists hold power would essentially end any chance the Soviet union had at controlling Afghanistan, leaving its southern flank open to the installation of a western controlled government, essentially a continuation of the great game.
The occupation was half hearted, conducted by conscripts who knew the locals didn't want them there and didn't understand/care about why they were there. This was all in the face of highly motivated and insanely cruel mujahideen, who made their lives generally miserable.
The crumbling soviet state also contributed to low morale, while many Afgantsy would boast that wounded men would be extracted by helicopter to receive medical treatment, the conditions at military hospitals were poor due to lack of supplies. You had a very high chance of contracting serious diseases and dying anyway.
I'd still rather be a soviet conscript in Afghanistan than the first Chechen war.
Lincoln Jenkins
Similarly I seem to remember the ex-Soviet military chiefs being shocked that NATO planned to respond to mere chemical attacks in the same way as a nuclear attack.
Josiah Young
>I was just wondering if there was more to it as in other sources I have read on the Soviets in the late '80s there certainly seems to be less fear of the West (and even envy) by the average Soviet citizen and increasing corruption.
Once glasnost opened a few pinholes in the dam, nothing was going to keep out the rest of the flood. Think of if a "social erosion".
Remember though, the period you're wondering about was after the USSR had been in Afghanistan for several years. The initial intervention occurred in '79 and operations to prop up the puppet government began immediately afterward.
Xavier Miller
Yes I remember reading how even large Soviet bases were little better than Napoleonic encampments when it came to the spread of easily preventable disease (eg cooks not washing their hands).
Mason Martinez
Nothing but crocodile tears on the Soviets' part seeing as they planned on immediate use of their nuclear, biological, and chemical weapon arsenals when war began.
USSR - I can't believe you used nukes after a "mere" sarin attack! NATO - You mean after a sarin, anthrax, and nuclear attack, assclown.
Eli Cook
Does it matter though?
If you're playing operational scale that's a factor where each turn is a day or week but if you're playing a battalion or two such as FFoT the fact that it'll go nuclear doesn't really matter to the tabletop game.
Henry Morris
>Does it matter though?
No it doesn't and I wrote as much in this thread and the previous one. With what the West knew prior to '89, there could be a "window" for conventional combat.
>but if you're playing a battalion or two such as FFoT the fact that it'll go nuclear doesn't really matter to the tabletop game.
Which is what I've been saying for two threads now.
Now, our post-89 knowledge means even the week or so period I wrote about is a pipe dream. The USSR/Pact planned on going full NBC immediately. That's why posted about needing a wizard to remove the nuclear end of things if even for a few days combat.
It's going to depend on how much realism you want. Turn the dial far enough and your battlefield glows on Day 1.
Dominic Ward
It isn't like the Soviets planned to use so many NBC weapons that it impeded their own troops though. They knew full well that the NBC systems on many of their vehicles weren't that great.
Taking out ports, kasernes, and POMCUS sites doesn't mean the conventional war immediately stops.
Zachary Thomas
>It isn't like the Soviets planned to use so many NBC weapons that it impeded their own troops though.
Read their plans, user. It will be an real eye-opener for you.
You're also ignoring the fact, perhaps deliberately, that NATO will immediately respond with it's own NBC assets. already wrote about the Soviets' being "shocked" to learn that NATO would respond to a "mere" chemical attack with nukes.
Minutes after the USSR/Pact pulls the pin, NATO pulls the pin too and everything goes to shit.
ONCE AGAIN and for TWO THREADS now, it's a matter of how much realism you want. You can easily can ignore historical doctrines and all the other facts in order to push T55s, M60s, BMPs, M117s, and all the rest at each other.
Just play if you want.
Jace King
The whole point of the SIOP reforms was that a single nuke going off in West Germany didn't immediately and automatically proceed to full strategic exchange (though it was likely to end up there due to both sides not understanding each other).
My point was that even if the battlefield goes NBC there is still room for conventional forces. Especially at platoon and company level which is what most people game.
Liam Davis
Gotcha. Previously I misconstrued that you were saying since non-nuclear WW3 was pretty much impossible we should all just go play Bolt Action. Just a misunderstanding.
Brayden Kelly
user who said about the wizard did it approach initially here:
As an aside, it's actually quite a good excuse for a war to break out. Some kinda crazy unknown, unknowable force completely removes or disables every single nuclear weapon in the world and perhaps even the capability to make more? Very easy to spiral that out into chaos and opportunism arising from said chaos.
Hell, it'd probably make for a good RPG campaign about intelligence agencies trying to work out just what the fuck happened and hopefully stop everything from getting too awful. There need not be any further magical element than that one event too.
Other than that; Chemical/Biological weapons are at least a lot harder to use effectively than nukes or conventional weapons, despite their potential. And didn't come in unstoppable ICBM form.
Basically, I am all for Wizards Doing It, either as a handwave or even the core concept to enable gaming in a way that lets people not have to deal it. A lot of us, particularly older gamers, not exactly all that keen to relive the nightmares that era inspired. Some can distance themselves, hell I'd be happy to play a repeated single scenario of FFoT where both sides are holding on to a single fairly low yield tactical nuke they may or may not use, depending on how they choose, just to see how they adapt. It'd be fascinating to see who pulls the trigger first and the other side knew how to counter it.
But for the sake of the historical-ness, for me it does require a known handwave of some form, given the facts we're scarily aware of now regarding the situation as it was, I'd rather not perpetuate the idea that things could have gone conventionally in reality, the same way I wouldn't call a full plate harness 'platemail' or say that Cromwell was leader of the Parliamentarians during the entire civil war and other misconceptions like that.
Jack Ward
*It'd be fascinating to see who pulls the trigger first and if the other side knew how to counter it
Through proper dispersal and not giving a nice easy target. Or giving an easy but sacrifical target, like a town on a main road. Troops block the way but nuke it to get them rid of and now you've gotta deal with an irradiated, rubbled hellhole instead of a nice main road to advance down. That kinda situation, so it's never an I-win-button unless the opposition is a complete idiot/forgets the scenario whilst playing it (I bet we've all seen that happen...).
Christopher Bennett
>As an aside, it's actually quite a good excuse for a war to break out. Some kinda crazy unknown, unknowable force completely removes or disables every single nuclear weapon in the world and perhaps even the capability to make more? Very easy to spiral that out into chaos and opportunism arising from said chaos.
That is similar to the premise of "Missile Gap" by Charles Stoss. The world awakes one morning in October 1962 to find the surface of the earth is now mapped to an Alderson disk (basically a flat disk rotating around a star) with the result that the polar route is too far for bombers and rockets aren't powerful enough to achieve even a semi-orbital velocity so ICBMs are no longer intercontinental.
>Basically, I am all for Wizards Doing It, either as a handwave or even the core concept to enable gaming in a way that lets people not have to deal it.
Exactly. Just play the scenarios and don't fret about just why all the horrific NBC assets haven't been let out of their cages.
>>A lot of us, particularly older gamers, not exactly all that keen to relive the nightmares that era inspired.
As a fellow oldfag, I don't want to remember "duck & cover". Nor to I want to explain it away just to push some Cold War minis around the table.
>But for the sake of the historical-ness, for me it does require a known handwave of some form, given the facts we're scarily aware of now regarding the situation as it was...
Yes, there should be some level of historical realism, but such realism should be focused things like the kit, units, and OOBs and not the strategic political situation. You should ignore NBC because you can't plausibly explain it away.
>>I'd rather not perpetuate the idea that things could have gone conventionally in reality
Again, agreed. Just play the scenarios. Don't try to explain why either side hasn't escalated into a NBC exchange because you can't without falling back on some version of "wizards did it".
Knowing what we know post-89, anyone who thinks the war would only be fought conventionally or remain conventional is either lying to themselves, a moron, or both.
Just play if you want to. Leave all the political and other realities off the table.
The development of cavalry firearms and the widespread disappearance of armour from the European battlefield saw a decline in the use of the cavalry lance in early modern warfare. However, by 1800 the lance, much changed from its medieval predecessors in both form and function, was back. During the next century the use of the lance spread to the armed forces of almost every Western country, seeing action in every major conflict from the Napoleonic Wars to World War I including the Crimean and Franco-Prussian wars and across the Atlantic in the American Civil War. The lance even reached the colonial conflicts of the Anglo-Sikh and Boer wars. It was not until the disappearance of the mounted warrior from the battlefield that the lance was consigned to history. Featuring specially commissioned artwork and drawing upon a variety of sources, this is the engaging story of the cavalry lance at war during the 19th and 20th centuries, from Waterloo to the Somme.
Do you guys all keep your SS gifts until christmas or why are there no more pictures besides the Deus Vult book and the samurai minis?
Michael Cooper
I'm wondering the same thing. I wrote on mine to open it as soon as it arrived and it should really have arrived by now.
Cooper Cook
I was away again this year at the time the call went out and missed it. I've still got some blisters sitting around I was going to put in the last one when it was first being canvassed.
Benjamin Smith
All of my D6s, regardless of type, roll consistently low. Like, 1s and 2s when I need 3s on 6 dice, low. Should I buy more dice? Should I just keep rolling and hope it evens out? It's really having a massively negative effect on my games, and I'm not enjoying playing because of it.
Aaron Diaz
Have you tried the water test? If they fail that, replace them
