Should there be "black" (dark skin...

These races already exist. Why would there be Snow Elves that live in the sunny lands and have negroid features? There are separate variants for elves, humans, dwarves etc. from such regions, there is no need to force established races to have nonsensical subraces. If you want to play a black dwarf, play a gold dwarf, don't demand shield dwarves to include a dark skinned variety when they are canonically pale with dark and red hair.

Excuses that white people make just to dodge having PoC in their games.
>What, no, you can't play a black dwarf. They are not even human! Yeah, they are all white. Like me.

The fuck are you on about? There already is a race of black dwarves, play them and don't force the white dwarven race to include negroid individuals. It's like saying 'black people should be included in the white race'. Please return to /pol/

Drow aren't "black". They're grayish purple and don't have any African features.

Just about every major ethnicity has, somewhere in its history, a stone-working culture.
You're gonna come up to me, quote my post, and >imply that I was not myself >implying lost african cities full of crystals built by dwarven hands, dwarven smiths folding pure japanese steel over one million times, dwarven sherpas building cities out of the living rock of sky-scraping mountains, dwarven natives building adobe abodes into the sides of cliff faces, and so on?

>/pol/tard desperately tries to deflect
Maybe it's you who should go back

Stone-working cultures and the knowledge contained within are basically magic to a lot of people. Hence all the retardation every time people moving big rocks is brought up.

I'm gonna be honest, in this vague sense of culture and D&D race I've constructed, I dunno who's the upper egyptians and who's the lower egyptians. We've got a stone-working culture that produces some of the most magnificent and awe inspiring works of architecture in the history of the real world, but also in the real world they were hairless androgynous ancestor worshipping slutty cat-fetishists who wore smoky makeup.

When I actual do build settings this way, I tend to just squish together races into the same culture to sorta get around that. I can imagine that in the Double Kingdom of Rao-Hakhmet, their society is segregated into castes largely based on race.

The real-world ambiguity between the terms "ethnicity", "race", and "culture" cause a lot of problems in this specific discussion, I find.

>The real-world ambiguity between the terms "ethnicity", "race", and "culture" cause a lot of problems in this specific discussion, I find.

And it also adds "species" to the mix.

So in example Dwarves would be species. Gold and Shield dwarves are different ethnicities, and within those ethnicities there are different cultures. Maybe it's autism, but i find it silly how distinction between two flavors of dwarf is the same as distinction between human and elf.

I bet you kneel for the national anthem, don't you cuckboi?

>basing all fantasy cultures on real-world ones.

The most onanistic form of worldbuilding, because it allows a minimum of creativity with a maximum of pseudointellectual pretension.

Hi cuck.

I wish we didn't have coloreds in real life, why do I want them in my fantasy setting?

>The most onanistic form of worldbuilding, because it allows a minimum of creativity with a maximum of pseudointellectual pretension.
You have no idea.

>open thread expecting at least some discussion of different ethnicities within a rae and how different conditions including magic could have shaped them
>KEKKEKKEKKEKCUKCUKEKKCUCUUKEKCKCCUUCCK

All want for Christmas is shitposters to fuck off.

Someone's been using their word calendar.

I hope there's deliberate irony in you being massively pretentious while slamming others for being pretentious, otherwise such a grotesque lack of self-awareness could prove debilitating.

>humans have all sorts of ethnicities
>elves dwarves halflings etc are always european-looking
Somehow, they've found a way to be MORE racist than just making everybody always white. Well done, wizards.

This debate is only about skin color, not features. After all, there is no reason for an African elf to develop a, say, Bantu nose.
On the flip side, there is no reason why snow elves, for example, wouldn't.

I mean, maybe there is. Maybe that nose shape is better for regulating temperature in a particular climate. But Idk, I'm not an evolutionary anthropologist.

You want an explanation for the decline or sudden loss of information?

Trade groups form guilds and hoard knowledge on their craft. They keep things secret. Their guild hall is precariously perched on a cliff. Earthquake. Cliff no longer there. Fuck. There's all our knowledge on X gone.

u wot

As long as it makes sense. You can have whatever colours you like for your fantasy races, but don't try to make ethnicity into some sort of tokenism fest.

You aren't going to have a skittles mix of black, white, red, blue or whatever ethnicity elves all living in the same city without unique circumstances leading up to it, like the city being a major trading port between different elven factions or having a lot of foreigners traveling through it by some other means. The makeup of said city would also be limited by factors such as ease of travel and the distance you need to travel to get there. Another thing to keep in mind is that a skittles mix of ethnicities will eventually meld and assimilate into each other, much like Brazil.

In short, have whatever skin colours you like, but have a good reason for it to exist in the first place.

I don't want niggers around generally. Why would I want them around in the fantasy genre, in which white men prop up with their cold dead hands alone?

And no, other races will not be interested in fantasy. If they were, it would have happened already.

Fantasy often uses species as a stand-in for culture & ethnicity. Combine that with the middle-class american/european standard of "I'll make them white, i mean most people I know are white" and you get this weird land of mayonnaise people even as the culture, fashion & architecture draw from china, russia, ireland, south america, germany, spain, morocco, etc.

In itself that's not really a problem, except...

>Europeans tend to remain 'human' and other cultures are often relegated to 'not human.'

>'they're not even real humans' is a common justification for a lot of really fucked up things that people do to eachother.

Anyone here seen The Crow? It's like watching Brandon Lee shrug off hails of gunfire in The Crow with lines like 'you won't be able to hurt me' while knowing that Brandon Lee was killed by a firearm while filming The Crow. You know, that kinda unpleasant sense of dramatic irony.

And then you have the straight up nonsense like the species of hook-nosed, long clawed, conniving & callous bankers that control the world's finances in the Harry Potter books. What the fuck, Jo.

"I'm a racist baby who's scared of having black people in my fantasy RPGs books. Waaaaah! Waaaaah!"

...

I use Orcs as a stand-in for Turks. Just like Tolkein. Niggers are obviously goblinoids. Regular goblins are like the little crack babies that steal your bike. Hobgoblins are gang members. Bugbears are the giga niggas that rape everything. Mongrelmen need no explanation.

>THIS WHOLE THREAD

But seriously, there are already variants like that

just from the 5e Players Handbook

Dwarves
- Hill Dwarf includes the gold dwarves of Faerun, who have dark skin by canon

Elves
- High Elf includes the sun elves of Faerun, who have bronze skin

This is what sub-races are for

>should
No, there shouldn't. There's nothing that SHOULD be in a campaign. Only things you want to.

No.

>variants of all the D&D races, not just Elves and Humans?
No.
And when did we get niggerelves?
>inb4 drow
No.

>mfw europeans in my setting are elves
>mfw the closest to white people humans in my setting are slavs to the east ruled by glorious blonde pointy-eared vikings
>mfw one of the players in my playgroup is visibly uneasy with all the >implications i'm throwing

>This debate is only about skin color, not features

OP specifically said
>features associated with real-world humans of African descent
which drow don't have.

Drow are not negro elves. They're dark elves. Their skin color is a magical curse from Selune. It has nothing to do with pigment or genes.

>And when did we get niggerelves?

>the closest to white people humans in my setting are slavs

so like in real life then?

Sun Elves are boarderline niggers

>On the flip side, there is no reason why snow elves, for example, wouldn't.
Then how come literally all ethnicities accustomed to very cold climates didn't?
>inb4 noses don't matter when you're breathing cold air
Lul

That looks like a sandniggerelf
Niggers need to stop trying to claim dune coon achievements

"Waaaah! Waaaah! I hate non-whites! Waaaah!"

What a giant baby you are.

>the evil hordes from the south east who pray to a dark god, have desert people and attack the west again abd again aren't muslims
>tolkien lived 100 years ago but was totally a modern leftist of the last 2 decades
Lol, retard.

>its still 1917 in /pol/ land

Quit living in a day dream ya retard, or go get machine gunned by a Hun.

"I'm 6% snow elf, 7% wood elf, 1% dwarf guys" said el goblino rolling for deception.

This, head canon is fine aslong as you don't force it on others, and preferably if it makes sense.

Sounds like you're a baby who gets his fe-fes hurt when he has to acknowledge that black people exist.

And people say nu/tg/pol/ is some kind of meme.

Sounds like you're a merigoblin who gets upset when people don't want to shoehorn in your 13.5% whatever into their fantasy games/settings.

desu threads like these are nothing new

>1917
In middle earth it fucking is, when do you think those books were written?
Jesus Christ man

>reality insults the leftist
Wew, so you're seriously gonna argue that a guy from 100 years ago had modern leftist attitudes?

...

>merigoblin
My god you're shit at insults. Not that I expected better.

Stop being so fucking new, if you're gonna be a newfag either lurk or shut up about board culture.
No board has ever existed in a vacuum, especially not /pol/, that is nothing new, if you bring up politics other Veeky Forums posters with more right aligned opinions than you will voice their opinions, if you can't handle that fuck off to tumbrl.
They have always been here, the only new thing is faggots like you who are either recent migrants or retarded and cry about
>muh pol ruining mah Veeky Forums
It's not your board, it never has been and never will be.
Fuck off.

>Wew, so you're seriously gonna argue that a guy from 100 years ago had modern leftist attitudes?
Nah. But then, it's pretty irrelevant too. Tolkien can be a racist old fart writing about Turkish orc-hordes and it's still hilarious how scared some people are of having to see skin that isn't lily white.

>Hi cuck.
LOL who still uses "cuck" these days?

>implying it isn't true
Fuck off elsewhere with your shoehorning.

...

Dark elves of Faerûn.

>creates a thread as an excuse to throw accusations of racism at people, because they are not 100% aboard with their head-canon that is around the same level as Twilight Vampires

So why are you faggots trying to pretend the orcs and haradrim weren't obviously inspired by the 1400 year old jihad and hundreds of battles of the muslims trying to take over the west?
I dont give a fuck about your fan fiction, but don't fuck with established literature just because it hurts your feelings, snowflake.

>year old
*year long

Cause he's one of them

Oh my god you think I'm OP that's hilarious. Are you unable to conceive of the possibility that two different people may disagree with you, or are you pretending we're fewer so you can look though, like a bird puffing itself up in the mirror?

>I have no idea how evolution works the post

I think creating fantasy races based on stereotypes and subcultures would be more amusing, really.

It is still creating conflict for the same of conflict

Your fantasy creatures can be of any skin color you want
My elves are blue
Just do not force it onto other people and do not get trigered when others do not share your ideas

>Just do not force it onto other people and do not get trigered when others do not share your ideas
So what am I supposed to do when in the setting for the game my players have signed up for, I have dark skinned halflings, and one of the players objects?
I already had a player throw a shitfit because I used some common African legend in my game, and I remember being amazed that most posts were telling me to cut it from the setting, as tho it were some kind of herp durp VIRTUE SIGNALING rather than a fairly large part of the area the players were in, and the players were already invested into.

Talk to your players, listen to their objections, and discuss ways to resolve the problem to the best of everyone's interest.

>So what am I supposed to do when in the setting for the game my players have signed up for, I have dark skinned halflings, and one of the players objects?
Is it one player? If yes, tell him to shut it.

let them
it is your game, and it is their choice whether they want to play or not

I has 3 types of Halfling in my campaign
One were classic Tolkien Hobbits, one wee basically Summerians, and one were like Amazon rainforest natives.

I always have one vanilla variant sub-race, and go crazy with the others

>So what am I supposed to do when in the setting for the game my players have signed up for, I have dark skinned halflings, and one of the players objects?
Are you legitimately autistic?
Change the setting or the player depending on what's more important to you like a normal person instead of venting your impotent rage at strangers on Veeky Forums.
Fucking hell, I rarely use the word, but you're such a fucking cuck it's insane.
Games are supposed to be fun, if you can't stop yourself from inducing your snowflake bullshit into them don't play with people who mind that shit.
Talk to people like a normal person and have fun, how is that hard for you?

No.

I mean, if you're playing in a not!SSafrica it can make some sense, but generally no.

As everyone has stated, you can do whatever the fuck you want dude, it's fucking playing pretend.

I find myself less apt to be reasonable when someone's primary objection is the skin color of an npc they may or may never interact with.
I prefer to kick people who have such autism, like the last autistic player I had.
As for my past issue, my players wanted me to boot the guy because none of them had an issue (they are all aware that I rip off many folk tales from different cultures hand over fist) and the guy's complaints were killing the mood.
>inducing your snowflake bullshit
This is what makes me ignore you, that something as blase as skin color in a fantastical game where clouds have philosophical debates with the pc party on behalf of a lake is "snowflake".

One could argue most settings shouldn't have humans of more than one colour, depending on how you feel humans became different colours.

In most fantasy worlds races are straight created by gods, so evolution is removed from consideration.

>Gnomes and halflings haven't had separate populations living in high sunlight exposure areas for long enough to develop negroid features, to my knowledge at least, if you want to brew a race of desert or jungle gnomes go ahead.
Gnomes and halflings are decently tan normally, but halflings from their native homeland of Lurien are actually much, much more tanned (think southern Mediterranean/North African/Berber/Egyptian tan) due to living pretty much right atop of Toril’s planetary equator.

Most of the “standard” setting of FR is actually REALLY far north of the world, like Canada level “I can toss rocks and hit Santa’s House from here” level of north.

>blase
Do not try to seem educated by writing shit like that or “per say,“ it makes people who actually speak french, Latin and/or greek look down on you.
Also, every evil nazi here told you to do what you want and not bother them, meanwhile you actively insulted them for how they prefer their fantasy world.
You are a snowflake, not because you want niggers in your setting but because of your 20 posts calling people who don't want them shitty insults you copied off tumblr.

Also, blasé is written like this you uneducated mongrel.

>you actively insulted them for how they prefer their fantasy world
>be playing in a cooperative fantasy game in a setting they did NOT create, but operate in
>get mad because skin color on pretend creatures is not to their liking
I didn't need to shit on the guy in my game, I was just left mystified.
The rest of the players shat on him plenty for me.
Wait, you actually think I have more than 2 posts in this thread? How droll! And trying to grammar nazi on top of it?
You're just an idiot, then, or a troll. Both are fine to ignore.

>>get mad because skin color on pretend creatures is not to their liking
Nobody here gotare mad because of what you do at home, they got angry because you tried to force it on them and repeatedly insulted them because they have differing opinions. Grow up.

Also, nobody here is your player so why do you keep on bringing him up like he justifies your attitude here?
He doesn't, nobody cares, stop being such a child and samefag.

Oh and you're welcome for the spelling lesson.
For future reference, it's per se and phenomenon is the singular of phenomena. Millennium is the singular of millenia.
Latin neutral nouns have -um -a for accusative and nominative singular abd plural and and Greek ones have -on -a, got it?
Good.

I dunno man, a history of building shit out of paper and wood sounds more elvish than dwarvish

>they got angry because you tried to force it on them and repeatedly insulted them because they have differing opinions.

wait

what

where does his post say that?

>Also, blasé is written like this you uneducated mongrel.

and per se is written like that you obnoxious retrograde

No, its stupid when elves get away with it entirely. Last thing we need is are 500 different types of the same race like the treatment elves get. Its pointless and artificial.

For humans, there are no real variations, they are mere subcatagories that focuses on how names and culture could be applied with differing verities of skins. Practically humans having differing races are purely cosmetic, nothing of note truly changes. If you want to be a dwarf with black skin, then play a DWARF who has black skin, don't make a race of dwarves whose defining trait is that they have black skin.

b-but user, all nonhuman races should be monocultures because i literally cannot comprehend how something that's not human can have people with different character!

Scroll up.

That's why I wrote “per say“ and not per se as I have in my other post, read before you write.
Or just read the very sentence you replied to properly, since I literally told him not to say it and used quotation marks for a reason you massive brainlet.

How stupid do you feel?

I'm your garden variety tumblerina skeleton so I know where the objection comes from. The gist of it is that depicting black people as a different and separate race has a "normalizing effect". Like, yeah, it's all just makebelieve about fucking elves but there's a theory that if you get used to something you become inured to it. You're on Veeky Forums so you're probably used to seeing some weird and horrible shit on a daily basis and you probably care less now than when you first came here.

Your upset player probably thinks that getting used to the idea that black people aren't humans is kind of a bad thing. (It is.) That doesn't make you a racist, it's just that portraying black people as non-humans is kind of dangerous. It could be harmless, but it could also teach people that black people aren't humans, which is bad.

You probably didn't intend for your black halflings to imply black people aren't human, and if the rest of your players are decent people they're not going to think that either. But if you're gaming with relative strangers you can't know if black halflings is going to inure them to racism or not, which is probably what your upset player was worried about.

Possibly without being able to articulate it; tumblr-style social justice tends to be some pretty high-concept academic ideas presented as memes, and don't teach how to make a proper argument.

>Possibly without being able to articulate it; tumblr-style social justice tends to be some pretty high-concept academic ideas presented as memes, and don't teach how to make a proper argument
No, it's just reurgitated bullshit.
He also made pretty clear that the player wasn't a crypto sjw and just didn't want niggers in a medieval european world

Many settings already have a broad variety of skintones for elves, dwarves, gnomes, and sometimes halflings. I think the general idea is less that the colorization is supposed to be African, and more that it's earthy, stony, like shades of foliage, or like dull metal.

>dark skin isn't about PoC
Uhmm, no sweetie.
Racist much?

You are the one trying to shove race into everything

Just create the world however you want
for example in my games I want to create idealised and somewhat better version of the world so my setting only have white people, humans or whatever

Better idea: standard races are boring, and make all settings that use the same rulebook too samey.

Why can't you just have humans with pointy ears who live in the forests? Why does elf need to be a pre-defined option?

Why can't you just replace aggressive nomads with honorable traits orc with human aggressive nomads with some orc-like features?

Why do these races need to be enshrined in the core rule-book?

The player's culture should either be determined by them or the Gm's setting, and their bonuses and weakness determined by the player the same way they get all of their other bonuses and weaknesses. Why do we need these races as a middleman?