/STG/ - Star Trek General

Bureau of Fugly Starship Design Edition

Previous Thread: A thread for discussing the 'Star Trek' franchise and its various tabletop adaptations.

Possible topics include Modiphius' new rpg 'Star Trek Adventures', WizKids miniatures game 'Star Trek: Attack Wing', and Gale Force Nine's board game 'Star Trek: Ascendancy', as well as the previous rpgs produced by FASA, Last Unicorn Games and Decipher, the Starfleet Battles Universe, and the Star Trek universe in general.


Game Resources

Star Trek Adventures
-Official Modiphius Page (Rules, FAQ and Player Resources)
>modiphius.com/star-trek.html
-PDF Collection
>mediafire.com/folder/0w33ywljd1pdt/Star_Trek_Adventures

Older Licensed RPGs (FASA, Last Unicorn Games and Decipher)
>pastebin.com/ndCz650p

Other (Unlicensed) RPGS (Far Trek + Lasers and Feelings)
>pastebin.com/uzW5tPwS

Star Trek: Attack Wing
-Official WizKids Page (Rules, FAQ and Player Resources)
>wizkids.com/attackwing/star-trek-attack-wing/

Star Trek: Ascendancy
-Official Gale Force Nine Page (Rules and Player Resources)
>startrek.gf9games.com/

Star Trek: Fleet Captain
-Official WizKids Page (Rules and Player Resources)
>wizkids.com/star-trek-fleet-captains/


Lore Resources

Memory Alpha - Canon wiki
>en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Portal:Main

Memory Beta - Noncanon wiki for licensed Star Trek works
>memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Fan Sites - Analysis of episodes, information on ships, technobabble and more
>pastebin.com/mxLWAPXF

Star Trek Maps - Based on the Star Trek Star Charts, updated and corrected
>startrekmap.com/index.html

/stg/ Homebrew Content
>pastebin.com/H1FL1UyP

Other urls found in this thread:

physicsguy.com/ftl/html/FTL_part4.html
youtu.be/mhoa7oWPPhk
youtu.be/KgVXk7u2WAQ
youtu.be/j_xN0LOLG3I
youtu.be/xnZ4AVHTH-Q
youtu.be/z4Ja1Jgvmkc
youtu.be/J3dHvM6_NaU
youtu.be/aEmAi8Yp-A0
youtu.be/XjlBXmn2Q0s
youtu.be/gsHBpx6pdUA
youtu.be/T8uF_dM0ags
youtu.be/HvVOftD5IrI
youtu.be/EMu5jP2-c5U
youtu.be/Va8NR3JkV3M
youtu.be/XfP6o-61e2s
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Cheers user.

What is that? The abortion class?

One of the kitbashes that DS9 had in the background, the USS Hutzel. The worst part is that it might be upside down, because it has a bridge layout on top and bottom.

Googling it, it doesn't look that bad from the back. It looks like Starfleet really, really needed an extra nacelle on a cheapass class for some reason.

The DS9 kitbashes in general imply that Starfleet itself makes uglies itself. Seems like something a fringe power would do, not one of the major galactic players, but hey.

Gotta warp fast.

A lot of those heinous kitbashes started appearing as the Dominion became a threat. I'd wager they were quick, cheap vessels to pump out in a post-359, pre-Dominion War timescale. At least until they could start pumping out Akiras, Sabres and Defiants in sufficient numbers to make up the deficit.

...

Do you guy think it'd be possible to make a game about the Romulan War as presented by the SFM 'fun'? And not just fun for grognards.

Thinking in wargame kind of terms. I've been playing with the idea on and off and unfortunately it seems like it'd be very close to modern naval warfare games because it'd mostly be small fleets at a distance firing missiles at ships and missiles to shoot down incoming missiles whilst cruising around at low warp factors (though the speed differences between warp 2 and a bit and and 3 going on 4 being pretty gigantic given how the scale... scales). There's no shields, but getting solid hits is hard. Romulans get their plasma cannon but it has a range of about 1 light minute at best if I remember right (and like the Earth fleet lasers, it's not a warp-speed weapon like phasers have been/can be depending on stuff) so useful only at practically kissing, not even spitting distance.
Fighters of a kind do have a place though in being a lower-risk way to get missile barrages in closer and thus much less time to counter them without risking a big ship.

All the elements are there I think to make something but if it could be a fun something instead of an exercise in tedium I just can't see. Would be easier as a PC game I guess, akin to Rule The Waves and it's companions.

What's a good PbtA hack for space exploration with your buds? Uncharted Worlds is apparently a half assed one.
>inb4 'good PbtA'
>inb4 'all PbtA is half assed'

So is JJ!Trek Mudd a Bajoran?

to be honest, I've not heard of another space-setting for it. At least nothing that has been marketed.

Yup.

Probably one of his wives having gone rogue and taken over.

Or a hybrid daughter

I thought that was the canon for her.

Children of a Dead Earth might be good with a SFM mod...

I’d love to see a gravitationally influenced warp geometry in a game.

YES!

...

Has Riker ever been in command of the Enterprise and not fucked it up? Struggling to think of anything.

That’s just wouldn’t be Riker-esque. Also, yes, during Unification pt.2 he did just fine.

Well in the space luddites the movie, he flew the enterprise into a dust cloud, siphoned its gas into the nacellas and then during a fly-by he released it, covering the pursuing ship in his warp farts.
After that he shot a phaser at the cloud, causing itto blow up.

Best of Both Worlds, when he commanded the Enterprise against the Borg/Picard.

And this was all after having to DUMP THE MOTHERFUCKING WARP CORE.

He was about to plow the Enterprise straight into a Borg cube at warp speed while it was orbiting Earth until Data and a still assimilated Picard pulled his ass out of the fire.

>He was about to plow the Enterprise straight into a Borg cube at warp speed while it was orbiting Earth until Data and a still assimilated Picard pulled his ass out of the fire.
To be fair, that would probably have worked. Kinetic energy's a real bitch.

In his defense with te Borg thing, there’s not much else he could do. No weapons worked, he didn’t have time for experimental shit, it was Data’s plan or RAMMINGSPEED.

Speaking of.
How come Federationhasn't thought about using meteorites as anti-borg kinetic kill missiles.
Just imagine it.
>Build warp engines on the rear of the asteroid
>Fling it at warp fuck you against the nearest borg cube

It's a tv show, user. If Riker was in command and nothing went wrong that'd make for a really shitty episode.
However, I submit that basically any episode where all the action happened off the ship, with Picard as the focus was an example of Riker commanding the ship without fuckup. That time Picard was on Risa or the time Picard and Crusher got mind linked on that planet of paranoid shitheads.

I don't think warp bubbles cause acceleration, ramming speed would be max impulse.
And I imagine that fitting a Bussard ramscoop on an asteroid and warping it somewhere is far less efficient than stockpiling Omega, Genesis, and Thalaron.

But Omega particles make space weird and cause warp bubbles to go kaputt, forever.
But Genesis is illegal!
But Thalaron reactors are illegal! And also in Romulan hands only.

...

>And this was all after having to DUMP THE MOTHERFUCKING WARP CORE.
saving the ship

>He was about to plow the Enterprise straight into a Borg cube at warp speed while it was orbiting Earth until Data and a still assimilated Picard pulled his ass out of the fire.
sacrificing the ship as a last resort to save Earth and billions of souls sounds like a pretty solid choice, all things considered. Wouldn't fault any of the other captains for making the same call.

His suggestion was stupid, but your rebuttal is worse. Orbital mechanics makes any damn thing deadly when knocked a bit out of orbit, you just have to be willing to wait.

>Odo brings this scene up to shit on Worf
It gave me a hearty chuckle at their interactions, pity they didn't do more with that. I would love a Murder/Mystery with Worf and Odo episode.

>misses ferengi at less than 5 meters distance
>gets ass handed to him by every enemy that won't face him in an honour duel
>misses slow moving targets with the arsenal of an entire space station
>regularly deserts his post to engage in some bullshit honour ritual or another

How te fuck did Worf make Lt. Commander?

Same way a blue fishboy and an earjew got into the most prestigious Starfleet Academy campus.

Battle Bridge is comfiest Bridge.

Max impulse is still pretty fucking scary if given enough time to accelerate.

Lets say you've been using one of those totally-no-for-spying telescopes to look thousands of light-years past the edge of the map. Spot borg cube. Plot its course.

No find a rock. put it directly in it's path. Attach impulse engines to it. Attach a cloaking device to it. Point it, light the fuse and stand well back. In a few months deep in interstellar space a Cube is going to slam into several million tons of rock going at 3% light speed.

There won't be enough of the cube left to make a novelty codpiece.

>Max impulse is still pretty fucking scary if given enough time to accelerate.
>accelerate
physicsguy.com/ftl/html/FTL_part4.html
tldr; impulse works by setting the ship's speed against the subspace special reference frame just as warp does, which is why it's described as having a top speed of .6c on most vessels.

You know that's literally why deflector shields exist right? Like the deflector has an upper limit as to what it can filter out, but at that size your plan is so inefficient it's almost Pakled-tier. Not to mention why the fuck would a cube be going in the exact same direction for months at a time.

Or, or, .6c is relative to the interstellar medium, and it's below a safety margin of said medium fucking up the hull.

Best of Both Worlds.

There's a few good candidates. Even a plain 2D Naval game could work well enough for the sake of a game. But I can't mod for shit beyond tweaking numbers and using tools on far simpler games. it'd have to be a real labour of love from someone dedicated and skilled to make such a thing happen, and that ain't me.

To be fair it's also probably got a more solid baseline to it than regular 'trek combat. From the Battle of Hell's Gate report as well as the ships themselves, there's a ton of info to pull. But there's also a bunch of ships that the SFM unfortunately never got around to covering, like various light cruisers and support ships.

One of these day's I'm gonna have to go full autism and do my own update/completion of the SFM Romulan war era. With blackjack. And hookers.

Captcha just gave me a big STOP sign though to select, I feel like that was a hint.

Rate the films by soundtrack.

jjtrek>rest

>First Contact
>Wrath of Khan
>Giaccino-Trek
>Undiscovered Country
>Final Frontier
>Nemesis

And after that I can’t actually remember any of the other soundtracks so they were just background noise.

I disagree. TMP had the orgasmic Enterprise leaving dockyards music score.

Giaccino does 3 specific songs really well. And that's all he really does. If you know he's the composer it can be really distracting. Still a decent composer, but unimaginative.

I tend to forget that that's the first use of what would become the iconic TNG music, so yeah, that's fair.

Might it be easier to try and apply Attack Wing or preferably SW Armada mechanics onto a 2D game with really weird and specific weapon cones and ranges. Or would that be going too far.

Search For Spock should be up there if solely for the Stealing The Enterprise score.

What happens if the cube changes speed or direction?

The rebuttal is specific to orbital bombardments, where all you need is small delta v and some patience. Relating to Borg ships, if the alternative is between fitting a ship with warp, a navigation AI, and payload, and having the Borg ship destroy an entire fleet, the former is obviously better.
>but yah gotta watch it and make course corrections
40k doesn't even have the limited AI we do, let alone Trek.

>40k doesn't even have the limited AI we do, let alone Trek.
Yes it does. What the Imperium (and it is the Imperium specifically) considers forbidden is fully self aware machines. They still have and employ computer systems of varying complexity (called cogitators) and use actual machine intelligences in various kinds of military vehicles. They also use artificial biological brains to control combat robots.

Fine then. Still doesn't work: the 40k thing makes sense within its own universe because materials costs are an enormous consideration and conventional weapons are more cost effective than RKV's. The Star Trek universe, however, doesn't give a shit about material scarcity, and it's been demonstrated that kinetic weapons are far, far more effective on Borg cubes than conventional weapons.
I just really fucking hate that picture by some hack writer who obviously doesn't even know what the two-body problem is.

Or, the cube will stop moving, start moving in a different direction, or go into any level of warp speed (Which are exponential, and therefore impossible for anything going sub-C to correct for) for any reason in any direction.

I dunno, maybe. Gotta be someway to make missiles vs missiles across a solar system (not a full solar system but a surprising amount of it given the weapon ranges involved) with rare and dangerous possibly lasers/plasma interesting and fun without losing the feel and it just being yet another spaceship game.

That is one the problems as well; beyond dramatic convention, how the hell does a game do going to sub-light speeds to use point-blank range weapons and scooting around at warp-speed spamming nuclear missiles in the same system? Maybe significant defensive bonuses for being near a planet? A lot of the time an orbital fight would even happen would be because a planet is contested, typically the a force attempting to stop a siege/bombardment/raid or attempting to destroy/protect orbital assets and so having to contest that specific tiny area of space. Problems like this are why it's an interesting if very difficult kind of game to even attempt designing.

>First Contact
Mah nigga. One of the best opening themes of the series, also Magic Carpet Ride.

I'd also include Generations, because it has some solid dreamlike tracks, that fit its theme pretty well.

...

It seems like rising through the ranks in Starfleet is actually much less difficult than getting into the Academy. You have to be the best of the best of the best to get into the entrance exam, and even then the odds of you getting in are low.
Whereas one you have a pip on your neck, you just have to put in the hours and impress/befriend your boss. So long as you don’t do anything super-dodgy you’ll reach Lt. Commander before you’re 30.

Lieutenant seems to be rank you can reach that way.

To get Lt. Commader you need to do something to impress your commanding officer. Worf was Lieutenant most of the TNG, they made him Lt. Commader in Generations thats what the whole sailing ship scene was about.

Sort of makes sense. Once you’ve made it in, they know you’re the business.

So in future conventions where they have all the captains together, will Discovery be represented by Micheal's actress, or Lorca's?

Lorca and Georgiou, depending on if the rumers that Michelle Yeoh is back in the second half of the season are true.

You know damn well Michael will be in the captain's chair by the end of next season.

Please no.

It's a virtual certainty. They're setting up Michael as being the new captain pretty hard. She's gonna mutiny or something against Lorca (he either warcrimes too hard or not hard enough, it's a toss up) and take over. And it will be terrible.

If they really are in the mirror universe in the 2nd half of the season, her being alive makes sense.

I wonder if they'll make slutty versions of the discovery uniforms.

Na, Lorca's gonna get murdered somehow and then Michael will have an awkward as fuck emotionless period of grieving for no reason before awkwardly taking over in what the writers think is a heroic fashion.

>I wonder if they'll make slutty versions of the discovery uniforms.
No, that wouldn't please the social justice movement.

Yeah, that would make sense too. Gonna be... something, all right.

This.

...

...

...

...

I feel like the scale is off here, just a bit. The Akira should be a little smaller, given it's further away from the camera.

That's a terrible angle for the Dreadnought - unless he's deliberately editing out the third engine, anyway.

Fun fact: all of those parts were a reversible conversion tacked onto the four-footer by Gary Hutzel. He still had them in his storage unit a couple years ago when he did the Big Model Photoshoot.

...

I love the hex screws on the engine caps.

Continuity reference shot from the wrap party, right before they disassembled her. Gary couldn't find the torpedo package from the saucer; given its resemblance to the Akira-class' undercarriage torpedoes, I suspect someone in the model shop swiped them for the mockups.

Oh, and the Hutzel doesn't look >quite< so bad when she's right-side up.

The Jupp, on the other hand, is inexcusable.

They're true successors to FASA's awful designs.

The moment the rock exited the warp field it would transition back to sub-light speed and be easily countered by FTL sensors and standard deflector technology designed to deal with exactly that.

As for why the spacefaring powers don't routinely use disposable ships as weapons of mass destruction, given that they're powered by antimatter and/or black holes and are capable of maintaining FTL speeds, a wizard did it.

blue fishboy?

>They're true successors to FASA's awful designs.
You know, I was going to argue, but FASA only had like five good in-house ships. AT LEAST THEIRS DIDN'T MOUNT THE FRELLING ENGINES UPSIDE-DOWN THOUGH

Oh, right, you're basically suggesting the second thing, not the first thing.

Wizard? Or maybe warp drives are really expensive? Except that they aren't, of course, because you can put them on shuttles and a guy with no infrastructure in a war ravaged pre-FTL world managed to build one out of a missile.

If you wanted to make something up, you could say that a non-aligned warp field would automatically get cancelled out by a... nope, Star Trek has FTL chase scenes... this is hard.

Wizard.

I've actually heard Andrew Probert complain that the engines on the Reliant were the wrong way up because they were designed to feed-in from the bottom and were not adjusted when they flipped the design. But honestly, fuck Probert and his aesthetic choices, it just looks wrong. Really, really wrong.

*And were adjusted when they flipped the design.

First Contact
>youtu.be/mhoa7oWPPhk
>youtu.be/KgVXk7u2WAQ

Wrath of Khan
>youtu.be/j_xN0LOLG3I
>youtu.be/xnZ4AVHTH-Q

Undiscovered Country
>youtu.be/z4Ja1Jgvmkc
>youtu.be/J3dHvM6_NaU

Search For Spock
>youtu.be/aEmAi8Yp-A0

The Motion Picture
>youtu.be/XjlBXmn2Q0s
>youtu.be/gsHBpx6pdUA

Nemesis
>youtu.be/T8uF_dM0ags
>youtu.be/HvVOftD5IrI

Nu-Trek
>youtu.be/EMu5jP2-c5U
>youtu.be/Va8NR3JkV3M
>youtu.be/XfP6o-61e2s

I think it actually looks okay

He’s talking about the Benzite.

With vertical plasma feeds, it really shouldn't matter; if it does, slapping the "lumps" on the bottom of the engines would be more than enough room from an engineering standpoint to do anything that the other configuration would..

And honestly, if the reactor for the Jupp was on the bottom and the engines on top the ship would look so much better, as this three-minute chopjob shows.

For reference.

The big change it really needs is spacing those engines out slightly more. It looks terrible having them that close together. seriously if the dude had just pushed them out so they were akin to the spacing of image related here, that'd be half way to being ok.

It's fine, honestly. I find shit like the Ekins and Yeager much worse baceuse they're just gluing whatever kits they have together for shits and giggles. At least the Jupp is consistent in its visual style.

Okay, how about this. Because we're dealing with priitive as fuck ships, basically all weapons work at sublight speeds (thruster/Impulse). There are a few, early prototype torpedo weapons that heave cruisers (Daedalus and the like) can fire, but they're prohibitively expensive and are generally saved for primary targets. I think that would work, seeing as SFM (it still feels weird calling it that after a few lost afternoons on gif) uses conventionally propelled missiles and lasers.

Problem is, the missiles are explicitly warp-driven.

>"Two of the Minotaurs, Gwendoline (#814) and Thumper (#922), made jumps of 62 au (5.6 minutes), 41 au (3.7 minutes), and 55 au (5.0 minutes), easily outrunning Romulan defensive missiles and point-defense fighters. When 9.4 au away and still traveling at wf 4.5, each Minotaur fired 6 missiles at the targets; 30 seconds later, the missiles' warheads detonated and the sensor arrays were destroyed."

Plugging that into a calculator to get the exact warp speed for the missiles: 9.4au in 30 seconds is Warp 5.39. Or could round it off nicely to warp 5.4 for about a quarter second less.

Yellow alert! Yellow alert!
Yes, it's the Klingons. These warlike beings are always on the prowl for dilithium, to drive their war machines, power their warships, and do many other war things. Here's Dr. Wallace Thaumazein again.

"Before dilithium-enhanced warp drives and weaponry, there was no interstellar war. Well, not exactly no interstellar war, but not very much of it, because with the ships flying at Warp Three or Four, and these little laser guns that only shot at lightspeed so even at Warp Two you flew faster than the stuff coming after you, it really wasn't very interesting, and nobody much did it, except for the Romulans, who you have to admit try real hard in everything they do, even if we can't always figure out why, and the Klingons, for whom it was sort of a hobby anyway."
A simple hobby that threatens millions. This is the result of the Klingon Empire's ruthless hunger for dilithium, the wonder mineral. Is there an answer?

-How much for Just the Planet, John M Ford, pp 24-25.

(not really relevant to the discussion at hand but still deeply funny).

Eh, the Elkins, Raging Queen*/Curry, and the Centaur don't really bother mah britches all that much. They all look like reasonable extrapolations from other Starfleet tech/hull frames by the same companies (or subcontractors..). The Yeager only looks bad from the side and bottom; with a more blended hull and some cleanup on the huge-ass impulse fins from the Maquis fighter/cutter it'd look really damned good as a Feddie Bird-of-prey.

The reason the Hutzel and Jupp (and to a certain extent the Raging Queen) annoy me is the upside-down or misaligned parts and the sloppy scaling. Especially compared to the Wolf 359 ships.

Alright, then the best bet is to create a vessel or missile specifically designed to counter those weapons. An interdictor of some sort. Shit at offensive engagements but good at taking out large groups of missiles.