Weekend Warcraft Lore General

Upper Blackrock Spire used to be a 15-man informal raid.
Now it's a 5-man dungeon.

And sexy goat girls.

WoW is seriously full of entire campaign ideas in their quest lines. As much as they may drop the ball, the Cult of the Damned, Twilight's Hammer, Qiraji and more are all wonderful stories to explore.

I seriously hate how with the expansions that you can't get serious raids together for the old raids and dungeons.

It's a shitty comparison
Blizzard should just make Goblins neutral again instead if that's how they're treating the Goblin players.

Cult of the Damned by a country mile. The leaders are more charismatic and i think the members enjoyed better benefits. Peasents joined up for equality and education in a time where the royalty was taxing them into oblivion

I also really like Defias and I think they get a weirdly bad rap. They are artisans and laborers that were snubbed after rebuilding Stormwind. They have a more compelling story than the Red vs. Blue thing

The one that wasn't a big fat failure.

Occasionally you can find a group running achievements on the weekends in the Raid Finder.
I decry the Group/Raid Finder a lot, but it sure beats standing in Ironforge for 2 hours spamming "LF4M UBRS! NO MORE FUCKING ROGUES!"

What's wrong with the Undermine existing?

But Cho'gall

It was one of the first instances where I realised "wait, are these guys actually awful at writing?" So we killed Onyxia who was apparently the one behind the refusal to pay up. Was she the only powerful person in the entire Stormwind? Why did everyone else think it was okay and not the worst kind of dickery that comes back to bite you in the ass? Was Bolvar drunk? Oh, and the way they presented Van Cleef as an unsympathetic thug made me think the background and the quests are written by people from different planets who are forbidden from communicating with each other.

Name ONE. FUCKING. THING. he did wrong. Guess the protip

Taking by previous thread, what kind of flavor you would like to be added into WC?
>industrial
>space age
>???

Don't be shy, just remember Warcraft is meme-fantasy.

Notice the words "big fat"

Didn't fug Liadrin while she was bound in his tent

Balkanization and civil war.

We already had space age with Legion though. Even BC added a bunch of that.

This. There were star destroyers/battlecruisers flying over Pandaria in the monk initial questline, and we beam ourselves to and from the Xenedar while on Argus. Plenty of sci-fi happening in WoW already.

Fuck Cho'gall. Kel'Thuzad kicks his ass

VanCleff reminds me of Ayn Rand's portrayal of Robin Hood, only somehow much dumber. I feel like the writers maybe didn't think through the implications beyond "alliance good, stormwind can do no wrong." It just makes your character into a stooge, not a hero.

Maybe a space-faring civilization, other than daemons?

spacecraft =/= sci-fi

The question should be "what is wrong with Undermine not existing", because it doesn't. What is worse, there are two instances of Kezan, which almost seem to make fun of Goblins - an instanced levelling zone that you see for the whole entirety of ten minutes, and a pathetic upcoming 5 manner.

Ethereals. Naaru.

Zul'jin was truly noble, but had he forgone his pride and gone with Orgrim to destroy Lordaeron instead of insisting until after Quel'thelas was burned the Alliance would be gone and the rest of the Horde could come back and finish the Elves.

Are there any written interactions between humans and goblins prior to the Dark Portal?

>a space-faring civilization
Like the Ethereals in BC?

It was kind of a thing in vanilla that Stormwind's nobility was a bucket of dicks. You kinda see it in some of the other one-of quests you do for them.

VanCleef as a thug rather than a radical revolutionary is something that mostly happened during Blizzard's bizarre obsession with Varian after his return. I think most people have forgotten just how badly they warped the lore around him at the time.

Over authoritarian fascism and imperialism factions fighting.

Just let the Azerothian wide war awake Azeroth and shake all off her broken husk.

>“Goblins?”
>“Much smaller, more the size of dwarves. Just as inventive, but in a destructive fashion. Fearless. I have read that as a race they are insane.”
>“Only the smart ones,” said Medivh.

That's from The Last Guardian, which you can find over here:

I'm sorry, it already has every possible flavour.

Like the Forsaken civil war? Or the orc civil war? Or the Nightborne civil war? No, I'm kind of sick of that theme already. Unless by some miracle there's gonna be a civil war in the Alliance for once, which there won't be.

Forsaken Civil War/Forsaken War of Independence.

I didn't make an alliance character/human untill cataclysm. I never expirienced the quests for that era. I suppose that would be something I would genuinely like a vanilla server for.

Was VanCleff portrayed diffrently pre-varian?

Medieval realism applied to all fantasy races.
Also delete gnomes.

this, but it's also post-industrial and post-redvblue

>civil war in the Alliance

What about the Dark Iron Dwarves? Moira held the Ironforge Dwarves and Anduin hostage until Varian and the SI:7 nearly assassinated her.

Cold War espionage

I'm up for this one, too

Future war: Azeroth

>Also delete gnomes.
No

Dwarves are enough with their gunpowder technology. Gnomes are a waste of space.

It's kind of hard to explain, since vanilla didn't do a whole lot of character interactions. The general picture painted by the quests is that while he is a dangerous revolutionary NOW, he used to be one of Stormwind's brightest, and trained alongside Mathias Shaw.

>Edwin... I see the years haven't changed you a bit, an idealist as ever, and a romantic. He doesn't care who he hurts, . Revenge has consumed him. But then, I'm not sure I can blame him.

On a fun note, I'm not sure how many people notice this, but the ship the Defias are constructing in the Deadmines is a huge ogre juggernaut from Warcraft 2. Also, you can see the gates it would have sailed out of just north of Stranglethorn Vale.

You're a waste of space.

it was also in WCIII

this movie should only be watched high as fuck, in its glorious British dub VHSrip form

otherwise it's boring as shit

When did this happen?

HFY

Goblins have high explosives and Belves/Nightborne have magitech out the ass.

Explosives are in line with gunpowder and have been around just as long.
Magitech is something else entirely and still remains believable in the context of the setting.
Gnomes and their quirky crystal lasers and highly advanced machines are not at all believable.

It's the only example of the old Juggernaut in WoW.
I'm sad there's no examples of the glorious Human Battleships in WoW.

Goblins and their quirky lasers and highly advanced machines are, on the other hand, highly believable

>Gnomes and their quirky crystal lasers and highly advanced machines are not at all believable.

Then you've got issues, as the Gnomes have had Flying Machines since WC2.

the one good retcon: classic.battle.net/war3/human/units/flyingmachine.shtml

Honestly, it's kinda sad how goblins overtook the gnomes in being the "advanced" faction.

Back in WC2 goblins used zeppelins and gnomes built helicopters and submarines. Then in warcraft 3 gnomes still had their helicopter but lost their submarine and the goblins got the wood harvesting robot.

Wow, gnomes lost the helicopter too.

Gnomes got nerfed hard.

>Then in warcraft 3 gnomes still had their helicopter but lost their submarine

Don't forget that in WC 2 Elves had cannons. The Elven Frigate was the fast alliance ship. Dwarves/Goblins becoming 'the tech faction' sorta dragged anything techie away from their allies.

Gnomes were too busy getting slaughtered by troggs, then later radiation.

The intro cinematic does credit the cannons to the dwarves, so with the elves as part of the Alliance, it's entirely possible they'd mount dwarf-made weapons on their destroyers. But then, the Orc ships are shown with cannons. And zeppelins.
youtu.be/ZPceWwNia6I?t=16

The gnomes never show up in Warcraft 3 because, as says, the Fall of Gnomeregan is happening at this time.

Point taken. Either way, at this point EVERY faction should be able to do WC2-level tech stuff with how much later this is in the timeline/how long they've worked together.

>trolls
>be there for 100k years
>invent stick

Hey, that's not fair. They invented 'Rock On Stick'.

Why need anything else when you shit mojo everywhere?

It's even sadder when you consider that they had access to great quantities of kaja'mite... and they squandered it all on sacrifices to their useless "gods"

I want to write a joke story story about a warcraft analog to Hydra Bob that drifts between the three big cults. (Cult of the Damned, Burning Blade, and Twilight's Hammer)

I figure he'd probably have to start out as eiterh Blade or Damned, then when the Legion and Scourge split in WC3 he'd "Switch" to the other? But that removes the chance of having him run away from some questing area as unstoppable murdhobos murder his coworkers.

>starts as a member of the Burning Blade
>defects to the Cult of the Damned when Arthas destroys them
>then joins the Twilight's Hammer after Arthas dies

Kaja never really heightened the intelligence of trolls. It made them super high, which is why the used it. Even then it took years underground with the fumes for the goblins to reawaken their tech powers.

I think by the time Ony was dead most of the Defias had commited numerous hanging crimes and there was no way anyone was going to pardon a bunch of murdering bandits. Also y'know one of them threw a rock that killed the Queen.

Also another fun fact, the cannons on that Dreadnought are all clustered on the wrong side, it would have to sail north from Stranglethorn with its gunless side facing the coast, sail PAST stormwind and then come back around to bombard it in earnest.

Dwarf piloted doesn't mean dwarf invented.

They did have a gun drop in Vanilla ZG. Also I guess certain primitive weapons may be easier to enchant to keep them on par with tech weapons.

The ship was still under construction, could always add more cannons.

Not like the Alliance could do anything, Stormwind didn’t have a harbor.

I still don't know what to feel about Cho'Gall just convincing Ragnaros and the Dark Iron to let the Horde stay. On the one Hand it makes the Dark Iron less jobber, on the other I thought that little bit of War would have been interesting.

I thought Wrath implied the harbour had always been there just out of reash.

As mentioned previously, Cho'gall was playing both sides.

Technically, Cho'gall and Raggy were both on the same side (the Old God side), which is why that snippet mentions the Dark Irons let the Horde stay "at Ragnaros's secret command".

I know, it's just funny to imagine Ragnaros as a pissed of Landlord mad that the Horde wasn't paying its rent in the form of mortal heads.

>Ragnaros bangs the ceiling of his chamber with Sulfuras
>"KEEP IT DOWN UP THERE, JESUS FUCK"
>"Something wrong, Firelord?"
>"EVERY FUCKING TIME, EXECUTUS, IT'S 'LOK'TAR THIS' OR 'BLOOD AND THUNDER THAT' AND I'M SICK OF IT"

>YOU HAVE AWAKENED ME TOO SOON

>I BET AL'AKIR DOESN'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS BULLSHIT

>Ragnaros gets fucked over by sqautter's rights laws
>meanwhile Al'Akir gets to watch as his enemies genocide each other for retarded reasons
it's not fucking fair bros

CIvil war in the alliance. Its too goody-two shoes.

>Al'Akir gets to watch as his enemies genocide each other for retarded reasons
?
What horse races was he watching?

the Mogu-Tol'vir War

>Teldrassil burns, and the Alliance just watched
>Night elves snap

>Al'Akir watching the Tol'vir nuke themselves to kill the Mogu

"THIS IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN ANYTHING I COULD HAVE IMAGINED!"

You mean like the Defias uprising? Maybe the Syndicate? Possibly something like Kurzen and his troops going rogue? Oh, or maybe like Gilneas being split over the decision to build the Wall? How about Gnomeregan being taken over by a mutated usurper? Or a large part of the Theramore quests being about dealing with deserters? I know what you mean, it would be nice if they ever did something like that.

That said, I actually did like how the Alliance was more fractured in a non-grimderp way back in vanilla.

the Defias did nothing wrong, they should have executed Varian too

That Tolvir story made me smile.

Yeah, the Horde were realtively small and had trouble countering their "Creep Races." while the alliance had relatively less trouble with Gnolls and Kobolds but huge issues with internal divisions.

On a note about your image I really like the Red and Blue fleshbeast skin and wish there was a way to make the Shadowfiend not cover up its cool model/skin with shadowform purple.

Anime Mecha. I want fucking arcane-fueled gundams with a power rangers team of heros combining to kick ass and defeat giant monsters.

what was the Stormwind army up to during vanilla?

Vanilla's whole shtick was that both sides' armies were on far off battlefields, which is why they needed murderhobos(the players) to take care of all the shit on the homefront.

being trained wrong, as a joke; by Onxyia

Yeah, sectioned off to individual nobles to settle stupid grudges or oppress peasants offscreen. A few garrisoned in major cities and forbidden to leave.

Being strung up by Lady Katrana Prestor, a.k.a. the black dragon Onyxia. Elwynn, Westfall, Duskwood and Redridge were all begging Stormwind for help with their issues, but Prestor made sure no help was ever coming, destabilizing the human nation as best she could.

based Katrana Prestor

Vanilla was straight-up a cold war between the Alliance and Horde, so it was more they were busy dealing with issues from without and within on both fronts.