/swg/ - Mark Hamill Edition

Because Rey bypassed the character development and Hamill actively badmouthed TFA.
Being thrown under a bus in a pretty awful way was inevitable, and frankly I'm just glad he got to do something cool and die moderately peacefully.

I liked bits and pieces of it. It felt like a filler movie with like zero story progression plus they essentially ruined Luke's character imo. It's better than Phantom Menace.

I also enjoyed the ride. It was a OK SW movie. far from being Phantom menace bad, obviously.

Man, Luke's redemption of Vader was one of the most powerful moments in the OT. Everyone else in the galaxy at the time doubted it and he was able to prove them all wrong in a way which honors the Jedi way better than they did.

The popular opinion is very divided but the people who hated it REALLY hated it.

I want more movies like Rogue One honestly. Something set during the Clone Wars would be dope as fuck.

Really, the entire film is "every single person fucks up repeatedly".

Rey only succeeds because Snoke fucked up worse. Not a single person doesn't fuck up on both sides.

Like a cartoon series?

It was pretty good. Some flaws here and there, but nothing to really get wound up over.

Rey fucks up? She actually has a meaningful fuck up?

I got his teeth remade.

Well Snoke tricks her into surrendering herself by convincing her that she can turn Kylo against his master the same way Luke did to Vader....but then Kylo does turn against his master so....

>even if there were plot holes big enough to pilot a death star through.

How does the Death Star even move?

Well, she gets a scratch on her shoulder.

Snoke actually tosses her around the room with the Force while giving a villain monologue and its Kylo who actually kills him using the Force to activate her lightsaber in that gif we've all seen.

She was tossed into a tree by Kylo in TFA but still got back up.

I've seen the show you're talking about and yeah I guess I'd want more of that.

DJ did his job and either died from something outside of his control or walked off with lodesemone.
Holdo did what needed to be done, but should have been Leia, thematically, narratively, and in light of what occurred.
I don't think Hux did anything wrong technically, though telling Kylo to stop whining about his uncle might have had them kill the Rebellion.
Why the fuck didn't the FO converge any other military forces to head off the Resistance buddies at the pass, especially if there was a planet within sublight reach?

FO seems to be very tactically incompetent
>Giant Dreadnought Ship
>3 supporting Star Destroyers
>Supporting ships just sit back and do fuck all while the Dreadnought gets btfo

Shit was irritating.

>I don't think Hux did anything wrong technically
Hux got trolled in the beginning by Poe instead of just saying "SHOOT HIM" and that led to loss of the first attack.

>Why the fuck didn't the FO converge any other military forces to head off the Resistance buddies at the pass, especially if there was a planet within sublight reach?
Also this. There is like no good explanation for this except MAJOR hubris or poor storytelling. Was thinking the same the whole movie.

They didn't even launch a fighter screen as soon as they jumped into the system.

Its like these fucks never played TIE Fighter.

>have enough ties that you can probably put a dent in them even if you'll incur losses, but don't, because.... reasons??????
Also man they really weren't fucking kidding with just 24 cannons, who the fuck designed this.

IF there is good character growth from Poe and Finn in the next movie because they basically TKPed the whole Resistance with their foolish plots then their failures are kinda ok. IF.

>trolled in the beginning by Poe
Oh right I actively blocked a star wars movie having a "yo mama" joke and forgot that even happened, thanks.

The commander of the Dreadnought was fun and felt like a sane commander restrained by insane superiors.
"We should have launched the TIEs 5 minutes ago" Glorious! Someone with BRAINS!

Too bad he dies

I actually like it a lot, but the people mad about Luke drown out all other opinions.

It had some really bad pacing issues in the middle (there's two entire subplots that are both pointless and uninteresting), and it has a lot of plot holes (although, as with anything, people make the plot holes out to be more distracting than they actually were, because they remember them more clearly afterwards).

But I thought the rest of the movie worked well, and all the emotional arcs were good.

>Why the fuck didn't the FO converge any other military forces to head off the Resistance buddies at the pass, especially if there was a planet within sublight reach?

They didn't know the Resistance had a destination. As far as they knew (until DJ), the Resistance was just flying away until they ran out of fuel, able to jump randomly at any time. There was nowhere to head them off at.

I've seen this specific complaint about a hundred times and I really don't get it. Of all the other plot holes in that sequence, this is the ONE that explicitly makes sense.

The First Order are conquering the Core Worlds while this happens. They already diverted three Star Destroyers, a Dreadnought and Snoke's personal Wideboy to destroy a tiny if symbolically important pocket of resistance.

If there's a planet in the radius the ship (or smaller ships inside the first ship) can get to in its sublight engines, why would you not block off that planet.
If you're having an active military campaign on top of this (which isn't mentioned in the film as far as I could mention, title scroll just says they all surrendered) why the FUCK would you have your FUCKING LEADER in the middle of bumfuck nowhere shooting at a worthless dinghy

>The First Order are conquering the Core Worlds while this happens. They already diverted three Star Destroyers, a Dreadnought and Snoke's personal Wideboy to destroy a tiny if symbolically important pocket of resistance.
This is true. However, we are talking about the last of the Resistance and LEIA. Conquest of the whole galaxy will be easier after killing the head.

>If there's a planet in the radius the ship (or smaller ships inside the first ship) can get to in its sublight engines, why would you not block off that planet.

They mention Krayt (Crait? I've seen people spell it that way but I assumed it was like the dragons) has an old, abandoned but defensible base. There's no indication that was the only planet they could've reached, just that it was the best one to head to.

There's no particular evidence the First Order knew of the base in advance, either, so no reason to think any more of that planet than any other.

And, again, they could've jumped at any time to any countless number of planets. The FO didn't know they were diverting fuel to the not-GR75s instead.

It's the Age of Sigmar of movies: Spit on the old, to make room for the new. When will these brainlets ever learn?

My theory about Snoke:

>Snoke becomes super powerful force ghost
>he infect everyone with any connection to force
>everybody has a connection to the force except droids and few freaks
>using his understanding of both light and dark side of the force he grows new body inside the people he infected
>he burst out of people and animals alike in a shower of gore like xenomorph
>two freshly reborn Snokes meed
>"My clone..."
>"Now neither of us will be virgins!"
>Snokes start passionately making out
>Scene from Corruscant: millions of Snokes fucking in the streets
>Five years time skip: short scene of snokes, repairing some stuff, some snokes are female
>twenty years time skip: boysnoke and girlsnoke are kissing in the back of a flying car, they are slightly but noticeably less deformed that original Snoke
>ten years timeskip: dadsnoke and momsnoke walking in the park on Naboo with babysnoke, the babysnoke is still a bit off but a lot more human looking that original Snoke
>10 000 years timeskip: There’s a secret camera installed in each theatre playing episode IX, the audince themselves are projected on the screen

I have nothing against Luke dying.
His actions and mindset was just really weird;
If he had blamed himself only to realize it was the Jedi teachings that led to the fall of Anakin and Ben, like in the EU, it would have been decent and I would have been okay with it.

But instead he started with blaming the teachings when it was his own fault. And I just can't see how? It's almost like his reasoning was "I'm a Jedi so I can do whatever I want", only to fuck up and blame the 'religion' for making him a pompous walking sack of hubris.
And the only way I can see this as justifiable is if he was never a Jedi to begin with, i.e. he confronted Darth Vader/Sideous as Luke Skywalker; son of Anakin, not as Master Luke Skywalker of the NJO.
But that just raises further questions like why Yoda told him he was ready/was a Jedi, why Yoda didn't tell him he wasn't ready to be a teacher and why the fuck would he resist greater temptation when he was an untrained whelp than when he had actually studied the fucking Jedi Code for a decade.

Rey explicitly states to Luke that the Core world s will be conquored in weeks unless something changes.

There are other implications as well.

Truely only thing that bugged me was how small the Galaxy felt. It takes Fin/Rose about 2 hours to get to casino planet.

The latter spelling.
None of this answers why you wouldn't just put out a space dragnet, man can only jump so far.

>And the only way I can see this as justifiable is if he was never a Jedi to begin with
That would be some tremendous OT rape.

Did you watch the same movie that I did? How was it not just a giant turd on every piece of established lore?

Anyone made a “Guess I’ll Die” macro with Old Luke yet

Kylo's "murder the past" philosophy as the antagonist, versus Rey's "embrace the past, also I'm stealing these old jedi books" as the protagonist, makes it seem unlikely that Snoke'll come back in any way.

But JJ's doing 9, and JJ is hollywood's most poorly-kept secret hack, so who knows.

Yeah, lots of small galaxy syndrome. The entire Resistance is 12 people on the Falcon and one random poverty child who may or may not have been merely symbolic.

There's plenty of setups for other stuff, they just didn't bother with any of them. Poe calls Dreadnaughts "Fleet Killers", which means at some point Dreadnaughts have killed fleets, which means at some point there were fleets. But all we get is the garbage fleet, since the movie begins after the First Order Hoth-ed the Resistance base offscreen.

You want to put a space dragnet up in the entire 3-dimensional area within which the Resistance fleet could've jumped?

How do you see that as logistically viable?

Keep in mind the First Order's plan *worked*. It was only the transport-fuel switcharoo and subsequent "wait why haven't they done this every time?" suicide jump that foiled them. And even without the latter, the Resistance would've been completely deprived of any ships capable of combat or even fleeing.

How small is the Star wars universe? Because being a half galaxy span republic, they tought a million strong force to be decent. It's every planet being habitated be a few hundreds/thousands?

ah yes rey tactical genius with full knowledge of the FOs plans despite leaving not-Yavin immediately

I'm pretty sure Theed and Gunga are the only cities on Naboo at this point.

>how do you see that as logistically viable?
Because their options are planets with a breathable atmos or being dead in the water and caught anyway, with that radius getting smaller and smaller with each moment they spend not jumping. Park SOMETHING around each planet and have them slowly converge as their options diminish and they're left sitting at Crait with the Ghost Manta and one end and a few more ISDs on the other.
Boom, resistance dead.

Ahh the lightspeed kamikaze. Itssss justttt ffffff.. Brokes everything.

Like why not the two other ships what they were gona lose anyway do similar kamikazes?

Who is the worst new character in TLJ, and why is it Holdo?

>Introduce gratingly smug superior officer, somehow more stereotypically Imperial than the FO
>Set her up into conflict with one of the only semi-likable characters in the movie
>LOL TURNS OUT SHE WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG! LOOK AT HOW CLEVER I AM FOR SUBVERTING YOUR EXPECTATIONS!

>it worked until it didn't work
Genius analysis, why aren't you writing for Lucasfilm?

Soft SciFI and numbers seldom get along.

>gratingly smug
Poe's a bitchboy mad he can't go out and play with his toys more, only thing Holdo did wrong is not tell him the plan for... reasons?
"Because it would spoil the surprise" is literally the only one I can think of and that of course doesn't work as an actual logical reason.

After TFA, I was kinda used to Disney raping Star Wars.

As mad as she makes you, she had to be that way to give Poe his character arc (humility).

It's just his character arc / that entire part of the movie wasn't very interesting.

Lemme put this another way:

The Resistance escaped the pursuing fleet while still *within range of its guns*.

And that "escape" cost them all but like 20 lives. And left them trapped all over again, only saved by Luke/Kylo's duel.

Likely not large enough to penetrate the mega pizza, and if they tried and failed they'd be privy to the raddus or the others attempting it and either try to maneuver around it or just SEND A FUCKING TIE SCREEN AND BLOW IT UP FOR GOOD ANYWAY

People occasional say things about things without being an expert on the subject.

>Who is the worst new character in TLJ
Literally any new character that isn't an alien. Why do we get so many humans when there is a HUGE catalog of species to choose from? Just flipping through the FFG books I'm blown away by just how many aliens there are. Can people really not enjoy a space movie if they can't relate to every single character in some way?

I mean, the answer is obvious, but bringing out the "diversity" card isn't going to sit well with some people.

NuCanon has no sense of scale or thought put into any details. The Clone Wars only lasting three or so years is also bad scaling

True, but that doesn't make not enacting precautions not stupid.

So we're in agreement your only source for the FO diverting all their resources (but not the super mega awesome deathfortress WITH THEIR ENTIRE HIERARCHY ON IT) is the xenomorph bint talking out of her ass

Why is bringing in some fictionary wookies or whatever is more important than representation of people who actually exist?

>representation of people who actually exist
Well Wookiees were actually slaves in their lifetime, unlike niggers, there's that.

How many aliens can you identify by name from the OT?

>Look how totally not racist I am

the last time we had a main character that wasn't human or a glorified marionette droid was jar jar
there's your real answer

Humans are boring.

When did I ever claim to not be racist.

>So we're in agreement your only source

No, I'm a new guy, not the user you were talking to.

Racist aren't allowed to like Star Wars. Get out and never return soyboy scum.

If you are a racist, you are automatically disqualified from the discussion.

>I mean, the answer is obvious, but bringing out the "diversity" card isn't going to sit well with some people.
>When did I ever claim to not be racist.

really makes you think

Rodians
Jawas
Tuskens
Ithorians
Trandoshans
Talz
Chadra Fan
Arconian
Gran
Hutt
Weequay
Nikto
Ewok
Yoda's Species
Twi'lek
Wookiee
Ugnaught
Devaronian
Aqualish
Bith
Wolfmen Whose First Part I Can't Spell Off Top Of Head
And that's all I can think of without grabbing any material or naming non-sentients.

No no, I mean by their personal names.

Chewbacca, Ackbar, etc

If we're just going off raw species count, there were that many on the pointless casino planet alone.

Not the same user, Nicky.
And diversity is a retarded reason to do anything regardless of whether or not you're a double plus ungood wayciss.

>Doesn't tell and competent, trustworthy officer the details of her cryptic plan
>Lords over him when he asks her about it
>Surprised when he gets upset and mutinies
>said "plan" is literally just a kamikaze attack

Truly the hallmark of a military genius.

If you basically cut out the whole casino planet + duel with Plasma arch and have Finn just appear at the last battle, I think movie will just get better.

Plot-Relevant OT Aliens named: Greedo, Jabba, Chewie, Akbar, Yoda, gonna cheat and also say Wicket.
ST has Unkar Plutt, who's now irrelevant and likely dead or a cripple by now anyway. And Maz who SHOULD be irrelevant.

>competent, trustworthy officer
>leia's last act before going into a coma is "i'm demoting you because you aren't trustworthy or competent"
Really makes me think.

>doesn't name the most relevant alien of all Salacious B. Crumb

>said "plan" is literally just a kamikaze attack

No, that bit was improvised. She was just gonna fly off, leading the FO away from Crait, and then get shot to death when she ran outta gas.

Probably, yeah.

Which makes me think it wasn't part of Rian's vision. It absolutely drips "gotta give the character something to do" syndome, same as Poe.

It certainly seems like Rian had a Luke/Kylo/Rey/Leia movie and crammed a Poe/Finn/ movie into it.

Fair enough, my bad daddy-o. Point still stands that she doesn't know shit and is likely just talking out of her ass to get Luke to join her.

>Poe
>Competent, trustworthy

He's a pissy fuck up who repeatedly got people killed. The only reason to tell him jack shit was the threat of him throwing a tantrum and mutinying.

Poe at least had an arc. Finn just... repeats the thing he was supposed to not be doing, then does generic action shit for the rest of the movie until he relearns the thing he did last time but in an even more retarded way.

>Which makes me think it wasn't part of Rian's vision. It absolutely drips "gotta give the character something to do" syndome, same as Poe.
>It certainly seems like Rian had a Luke/Kylo/Rey/Leia movie and crammed a Poe/Finn/ movie into it.

The dumbest part is that it wouldve been easy to have Poe and FInn do something.
Send them off as Heroes of the Resistance to try and rustle up support on the outer rim.
They meet with some people - maybe even at Canto Bight, so they can use the place - and they get promises of help.

They fly back to the fleet and arrive just as shit's getting desperate and theyre preparing to leave for Crait.
Poe gets to get mad about this, but then Holdo explains the plan that he's not been around to see and is like "Oh okay that makes sense".

Then then get down to crait, send out their signal, and the fact that no-one responded is even more crushing and heartbreaking, as we see Finn and Poe's reactions.
Fucking done.

Salacious isn't named in-film.
Neither is Wicket but much like the word Ewok period I felt he'd penetrated public consciousness enough to mention it.
Also yes thank you for letting me add Kawakian Monkey Lizard (and Mon Cal, woops) to the list of OT ayys. Also Quarren.

Why do people keep hiring JJ when it's clear he actually has no idea what he's doing and has only a shallow understanding of the franchises he claims to love?

Dunno, perhaps his ass is out of this world or his blowjob skills are sublime?

Because they themselves have no idea what theyre doing and have only a shallow understanding of the franchises they claim to love.

Say what you will about George but at least you got the impression he cared...

he pumped out a script that was capable enough to keep normies entertained in an unbelievably enormous franchise in six months
That's a genuine feat.
A feat of unbelievable laziness, jewery, and poor decisions stroked by a painfully easy to please audience, but a feat nonetheless.

To paraphrase a line from the Vader comics.
George had vision.
JJ has graphs.

Why are normies even a factor when they weren't in the prequels?

He did.
Much as I disagreed with a lot of his design ideas and shit, at least he never cancelled the entire EU full of good ideas.

Hollywood is no more immune to promoting incompetence than any other industry

George cared very selectively, though. He shit out scripts even faster than JJ, but he put a lot of thought into things like visual designs.

>why are normies a factor when the franchise is now owned by somebody that cares far more about normies
The EU wipe was in discussion long before the Disney buy-out, which is why Clone Wars, the one thing George had the most input on since the prequels themselves, basically ignored it to do its own thing.