He uses alignment

...

reminder that one of the greatest villains of D&D was Lawful Good

...

>good does not depend on society.
No? Why not?

>obvious /v/-tier bait thread consisting of a single line of greentext and a "really makes me think" pic
>first post confirms troll thread
>people still reply genuinely
You are the reason that Veeky Forums is shit. You, personally. If you never made another post the entire site would be better off.

You are confusing franchises

This is Dungeons & Dragons
Not Warhammer

Veeky Forums is beyond redemption

Can you not think of many, many, many examples where society and law agreed that something was for the best/good/as it should be, and ended with untold suffering of people who did no harm to anyone else?

>people who did no harm to anyone else

if that were true, they would not suffer

>He doesn't align

No

Not really

Lawful = Justice
Chaotic = Liberty

Good = Altruist
Evil = Egoist

Neutral = walking the middle road

Poe's law. Not sure if trolling, but will assume so. No one can be this unaware of the world.

i'll never understand the concept of alignement
i mean, you don't need to have an alignement to play an asshole or a good guy

The only good alignment system is single axis, IMO. It's simple: do you support the pantheon of mankind, with all its gods, good and bad? Or do you side with the outsiders who strive to tear down man's civilization and one day return the cosmos to primal Chaos?

Not trolling

>this thread

Why would 99% of people be anywhere near the chaotic spectrum then

>he doesn't like shitposting

because they are not human, but filthy elves/orcs/whatever

It makes more sense seen in context with the Great Wheel cosmology of the D&D multiverse

It also helps to sum up your character.
Are they by the book, or are they a rebel soul?
Are they the sort to throw their lives away for the sake of others, or will they throw others under the buss for their selfish desires?
Or somewhere in the middle?

i think chosing two/three traits out of a series of personnal traits, like greedy, humble, arrogant, boastful, shy etc would better help to summarize a character rather than alignement, which are pretty vague

>How to spot a newfag: the post
Protip kiddo: Veeky Forums has always been known to take a shit thread and squeeze some actual discussion out of it. If you’re not trying to make better content, then fuck off to your safe space.

What the other guy said, but chaos also offers you cool powers.

This. Chaoskampf, best "kampf"

like warhammer chaos, or good old folktale about making pact with satan/feyfolk

Such an overrated manga. And the idea that anyone is willing to read the awful sequel is enough to make me wish for Japan to give Trump a reason to nuke it dead once and for all.
>hurr these elementary school kids are in True Love™ and stay together for ever and ever and end up marrying, give me money for giving you wish fulfillment with your one-sided loli waifu

>not just picking true neutral and then playing your character however you fucking feel like playing them

>Veeky Forums ever turning a generic alignment thread into anything good

>i don't agree with the OP's views
>muh troll thread

this is not a troll thread, i will actively come to your house to take a shit in your front lawn and perform a smooth jazz solo sprinkled with sporadic screaming at the top of my lungs if you even THINK of using alignment, let alone trying to justify its existence

That's what I do too

Well, there was this...

>implying civilization isn't the root cause of every problem of man

Nigga just become a druid

>ruining a smooth jazz solo like that

Jerk.

A bit more like the latter, though warhammer chaos has the same basic sources as D&D chaos -- namely Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions, and especially the Elric saga.

>"evil" is basically just selfishness
>good characters act for the good of all
>law exists for the good of all
>chaotic characters are egoists who care more about individual freedom than collective good

>implying there's any meaningful distinction between the law/chaos and good/evil axes

The only reason this shit ever even seems to make sense is when lawful/good just means you're a spineless cuck will just do whatever the church or the town guard says even when they're clearly corrupt.

>ShindoL

Ah yes, the bloody-handed stalking horse of the dark powers.
Look at me, I'm so nice and in tune with nature! Don't you feel the good vibes? Now climb inside this big wicker statue for a minute.

True Neutral would imply you are not the type to sacrifice their life for others, but also won't go out of their way to ruin someone's life for personal gain of there is another way

It also means you generally avoid breaking the law, but will do it if it is the easiest solution and you can get away with it

Doing " however you fucking feel" is more Chaotic Neutral

Because he's understating the role of chaos in such systems. The pantheons of order tend to be stultifying beacons of stagnation when given too much power; chaos also represents spontaneity, stochasm, and freedom, which you may recognize as things that keep life vibrant and moving rather than calcifying into a bleak, orderly mess.

Our DM insists we use it

>>law exists for the good of all
>being this fucking naive

Your DM is a fucking nincompoop

It goes with classes and races really, it's a giant shitty stereotype that allow 0 diversity in term of character and development, good for lazy unimaginative brainlets.

>>chaotic characters are egoists who care more about individual freedom than collective good
I'd say "chaotic" just measures their impulsiveness. CG can care a lot for groups of others, they just don't do it consistently in legal/moral principles (Lawful Good) or devotion (less rigid empathy, Neutral). What you describe as Chaotic is more CN.

>robinhood
>lawful neutral
How is he specifically Lawful?

Yeah, most people in two-axis alignment are neutral and haven't really picked a side. The decent church-going folks are lawful, and chaotic folks are generally disreputable types living out in the woods, talking to those nasty elves, and doing dark rituals. Everyone else is just trying to get through their lives without being burned for heresy or slain in exchange for dark powers.

good observation

Yeahj, in his original tales he was basically just a brigand, a folk hero who robbed rich folks and gave the taxman what-for. It was only later that concerned upper class twits rewrote him to be a secret noble all along, and added that humiliating bit at the end where he bends the knee to the Good King, old Richard Couer de Leon, a snotty Frenchman who hated England so much his greatest contribution was to fuck off to the Crusades just to get away from the smell of damp sheep for as many years as he could.

Agreed. It's a cool as shit concept once you explain planes outside the prime material

> ITT people who do not understand the alignment system nor have enough experience in life to see what it reflects, calling it dumb.

he's the only one we've got

>The enlightened poster looks down on all the sheeple

>itt a troll makes cryptic greentext remarks that add nothing to the discussion

Good job. Why don't you take a minute to explain your position and perhaps actually contribute for once?

As far as I can tell, the alignment system seems to represent Gygax's love of Three Hearts and Three Lions (which would also be seen in how the paladin is basically the MC of that book) and later, with the inclusion of good/evil as axis Gygax's hangups.

The original tale is what I had in mind. A brigand would not be lawful neutral.

Alignment has it's share of problems, but it has its uses too. All-in-all, i'm not a huge fan, but there are some merits that make it worthwhile in my opinion. If anyone is legitimately interested, I go into pretty good detail on this in one of the posts for the blog I write. I'll go ahead an link it for those who care.
draconick.com/2017/12/15/alignment-the-good-and-the-bad/

Remember, authoritarians don't think. They just obey.

t.brainlet who think people can always be good, neutral or bad.
that shit is subjective and is only valid for NPCs and heroic figures, i can guarantee that NPCs will act out of their imaginary alignment all the time

t. shitposter acting like he doesn't already know that every edition of every DMG ever has stated that alignments are not meant to be taken as binding ultimatums

Proving me right.
People aren't nearly as complex as you think and behaviour can fairly accurately be described and predicted via mathematical models. There is a reason aberrant behaviour is called aberrant, it happens, but does not change the norm.
And most people can neatly be placed into categories that will describe their morality and reactions to situations.

There are magical items, spells, and mechanics that depend on alignment to work

You see you'd be right when discussing Law as a cosmic force of perfect justice and supreme love (like it is really). Lowercase law, as in the law of men, is often good for a small ruling few only. Chaos as a cosmic force is definitely evil, but chaos can be used as a revolt against that shitty law in favor of Law, in which case it's Good. DnD takes law and pretends that's a cosmic force, which is why lawful evil has nothing cosmic about it from our perspective: it's just being a selfish manipulative asshole who hides behind bureaucracy, and they get their own special hell. Consequently chaos is also not the cosmic force it is thought of in this world as a revolt against rightful authority, but just a revolt against powerful institutions. They're taking the duality of spiritual and immediately material and crunching them together poorly so lawful good still has elements of what we think of as Law, and chaotic evil still has elements of our chaos, but the other corners are purely mundane with their own unique cosmic interpretations tacked on.

>People aren't nearly as complex as you think

That's why philosophers, psychologists, and sociologists still don't have a cohesive model of human behavior, right?

Also
*tips*

Obedience is the purest form of good

>chaos as a cosmic force is definitely evil

Chaos is the reason reality hasn't coalesced into an unchanging, mathematically perfect mass.

Go to bed Yang.

Mathematical models can't predict things that actually matters, a "good" person can steal and does things that may be beneficial but doesn't cause damage, while a criminal can have a thing for feeding the poor or watering plants, even within that you'd find more contradictory thoughts and feelings (doing bad with a good intention and vice versa), unless you're playing satan's incarnate alignment are a useless tag

>he doesn't know how to work around those limitations by using things such as "common sense" and "contextual judgment"

everything alignment represents can be refluffed or presented in a different way - certain threats and monsters can keep their alignment if they're not held by human nature's morality, that's not an issue

trying to force players to deal with alignment among themselves or with NPCs instead of leaving them to think and judge for themselves is straight up bad DMing

>an unchanging, mathematically perfect mass

Which is exactly what it should be

You legitimately disgust me. That doesn't often happen, these days.

stealing is always bad
"motivation" is just a stupid excuse of evil

>everything worth living about life should just cease to be

No.

You'd be dead. If you want to be dead, go be dead. Don't bring the rest of us with.

>implying there's any wuuooh mmagic chaos force in the real world
Then kill yourself if this world isn't worth living in.

Hah, someone has never played SMT.

>implying there isn't stochastic events and uncertainty in the real world

death is in chaos

>implying a lack of understanding of underlying principles implies a lack of underlying principles

>Chaos is inherently evil, you can't be chaotic and good at the same time.
Found the witch hunter

"There must be an underlying principle even though our mathematical models show it to be stochastic, and even attempts to account for a hidden cause come up with nothing." is an unfalsifiable position.

The longer I play D&D, the more I realize I want to DM to have a game with a grimdark poor low fantasy setting where every PC is either morally grey or stone cold lawful evil and powerhungry. Lawful Good is super rare and backstabbing and scheming is rewarded. Fuck quests, let them follow their own ambitions and rule as warlords.

Found the Heretic

I guess you never seen jokes gone real bad irl, people can die, stupidity, ignorance and the lack of information adds a lot of darkness when bad shit can happen, not to mention the history of humans and wars, two good nations can go to war and genocide each other thinking they're good.
Stealing is the same as bribing, if you've found money on the ground in an empty road and you know the owner may return to look again, a lot of people will just take the extra cash, if you somehow knew it belongs to a rich fag who won't even notice, you'd take it with a peaceful mind on top of that, same thing for bribes, same thing for supporting family and so on.
Moral dilemmas are the best for supporting those cases.

And how does that mean your position has been falsified, instead of simply being a result of insufficient understanding due to faulty mathematical models?

>your position has been falsified

It hasn't, it could be easily falsified by an underlying principle being discovered. But the other positions are currently unfalsifiable (true randomness could never be truly proven, so they'd always have room to argue there must be a hidden cause no matter how many times they fail, and hence their position could never be falsified).

>instead of simply being a result of insufficient understanding due to faulty mathematical models?

No matter what mathematical model was used, if it came up without a hidden cause, you could (and probably would, considering the long history we have of people asserting hidden causes without sound reason to do so) assert this claim.

Lawful: Human sacrifice by burning babies alive in front of a statue of Moloch
Neutral: Human sacrifice by cutting a POW's heart out atop your pyramid
Chaotic: Human sacrifice by burning a slave or criminal alive in your wicker man

>Everything is 40k

>he uses weight-based inventory with values measured in the tenths and hundredths

t. authoritarian/monarchist/fascist
GURPS says you're wrong.

>he uses ameritard measure units