How do I CN without being That Guy?

How do I CN without being That Guy?

Do your own thing, voice your opinion, but don't think or act like it's only your ass on the line.
The best CN pc I've ever played with would disregard plans if his option was better, would openly argue for the surest route of approach, and argued with me, the paladin, fairly often.
But he had our back without fail, and was a valued member of the party.

By not actually being chaotic evil. The problem with people that are playing chaotic neutral characters is that they forget that neutral implies that you're at-least more ethical than an evil character, you're not going to kill people without reason and your character has enough of morality to avoid being a shitter even if he's not selfless enough to qualify for being good. Imagine a chaotic good character and then dial up a flaw until they wouldn't qualify for good while still being likable

Don't be a dick about it

...

If you’re asking then you are That Guy. It’s too late.

Would that guy ask how not to be that guy?

I understand most of them except LG->NE, CE->CG, LE->CN and NE->LN, care to explain?

This is actually pretty accurate.

I've played a CN character. Most of the time, people would forget my alignment because the character simply did whatever made the most sense to him at the time. He wasn't a lolrandum bumfucker, but he did have little regard for rules or order. No particular malice or strong ideals, just a guy who uses his common sense and is willing to break all the rules when it seems like the best thing to do.

Wouldn't that just be true neutral, I feel like you have to be chaotic to the point where it's a value you hold rather than something you do out of convenience

you dont like laws and as far as good/evil deeds go you can go either way. That means you might rob that rich guy blind when you need the cash but at the same time you might be the guy who helps build a better heating system for the kennel with a money problem. You arnt that much of a asshole to be called evil but at the same time no one would really call you good, especialy not after that time you got in a shootout with the cops because they wouldent let you firebomb your landlords car after he raised the rent

Not too inaccurate. I'll save this.

Not him, but I'd say that the chaotic part comes with the fact that the character breaks the rules more often than not since it means shortcuts, but they won't do so in some cases, like for instance:
-It really fucks some people over (neutral means they have some morals, not as much as good dudes but they're not completely heartless).
-The risks behind breaking the law are too high.
or some shit like that

just my opinion though

I assumed the question was rhetorical. If it’s not then no probably not.

Fairly simply;
>Look out for number one unless doing so fucks over the party - and by extension yourself - in a major way.
CN doesn't automatically mean treasonous asshole. Even if paid treason is perfectly CN you need to remember that you're not the only person at the table and no one wants to play with the guy who'll get the party beheaded for a couple hundred gold.
>Laws and morals are negotiable so long as there's something to gain.
A CN character burns down a tavern for an insurance scam, a CS character burns down a tavern for "fun", or "laughs". A CN character acts the saint so he can rise to a position in the church from whence he can embezzle funds. A LG character acts the saint because they want to.

Examples of CN are water, America,and a majority of spies and petty criminals

>America
>not NE or CE
CN archetypes include soldiers of fortune/bounty hunters, most hedonists, wanderers if they're not TN, agents of change and hobos

This.

And this.

CN is most easily done as a hedonist without being That Guy.

If you're fucking people over for small advantages your probably evil, I feel like neutral characters would require something substantial as a reward to murder someone for example

Have a solid characterization that makes it so your actions seem to have reasons behind them and be self-justified.

This is too fucking accurate

1. Don't be a That Guy
2. Play a Chaotic Neutral character
That's all there is to it, any alignment can be done well or poorly depending on the player.

>Lawful Good
Lawful good is an excuse to basically ignore all laws you deem 'unjust' and 'evil' and rationalize all your atrocities by way of 'I'm lawful good and they were evil!'

>Chaotic Evil
A lot of people tend to play chaotic evil basically as the edgy guy who is best friends with the good guys. So while he's totally willing to go over the line at any moment with no qualms about it. He doesn't ever do it because his friends wouldn't like that.

>Lawful Evil
Someone wants to play stupid evil, but their GM only allows Lawful Evil. So they act like stupid evil, but not too evil because Lawful Evil is supposed to be civilized.

>Neutral Evil
Ever seen that meme of the neutral evil character who obeys all the laws and sticks to the system because it's convenient but he's still neutral evil because he's just doing it since it's the easy route. Yeah, that one.

>You cant roleplay Hannibal or Penguin if you are not as smart at them
>having a stick this big crammed in your anus

The guy who made this chart sounds like a bigger annoyance than the people hes complaining about

Complaining about alignments is one of the biggest indicators of someone being a spergy brainlet. The vast majority of DnD players just don't put that much stock into alignments, and most are perfectly willing to discuss how their actions and alignment intersect and differ.

Love of gold and whores is hardly a problem, Whedonesque dialogue however is a serious problem. Mostly because it's like putting everclear into a bottle of gatorade, too much and you're only go to make the person you give it to sick.

>a hedonist without being That Guy.
Hmmm

But does CG cross the line? It's not CN, they're supposed to have a conscience

>does CG cross the line
Someone answer this

CG refuses to cross their own line

that's lawful

This meme is literally meant to be about how people PLAY alignments.

Simply be self-serving while going whichever way the wind blows. The difference between CN and NE is that while both are selfish, NE is malicious while CN can be but isn't by nature.

You con people without them knowing it. So save a village but pillage their coffers as you do it.

Simple.

Just remember that Chaos creates as well as destroys.

Push the group to try new things, go on new adventures, and seek the unknown delicacies of the DM's world that none have ever experienced before. Just make sure you're not ignoring everyone else. After all, there's no telling what new experiences they might have to offer that you could enjoy.

am I the only person who thinks malcom reynolds was neither chaotic nor good? dude was just pure asshole

Don't think too hard about it. Be a dirtbag, but not a scumbag, and not to the party.

Chaotic Neutral is a mugger who'll pull a gun on you but would only pull the trigger in self-defense.

What about playing CG without being a self-righteous dick?

No it's not. Lawful is all about someone else's line. It doesn't need to be the law of the land or so, but it needs to be something fairly objective. Maybe a fixed morality or some religious set of values.

i played a mad, near tribal/ feral lizardman. he was chaotic neutral in that he'd do things on a whim and didn't respect any governing system (example, shouting "FUCK YOU, I BEEN KICKED OUT OF BETTER NEIGHBORHOODS THAN THIS" on more than one occasion) but ultimately he did mostly good because, as he put it "I don't want to feel that bad bad feeling. like, indigestion, but in my heart?" so, you don't have to be the lul random murder guy, you can just not give a shit about anything unless you as a character chooses to. no gods no masters, but you can be a good dude, just not cause anyone told you to.

>How do I chaotic neutral without being That Guy?

Play someone who grew up outside of civil society. A pragmatist who knows what he needs to do to see the next day or achieve his dreams, but if someone comes around jiving about paying this, or not crossing this road, or whatever, have an "I'll be god damned" moment.

Adventurer wise, they might have their own goals, that motivate them to adventure, but will fuck someone's day up if they start talking about "follow this meaningless tradition or we will throw you in jail".

Like, say that shit to the business end of my weapon.

Other than that, relatively well adjusted.


Or someone who is an active dissident of rulership in general. Distrustful of authority figures, but neither malicious or really altruistic.


It doesn't even have to be like "I ENJOY FREEDOM", Just a "who do you think you are talking to?!"

How do you normally act in real life? Most people are likely CN, but just don't think about it. Most people believe themselves Good, but they really aren't under scrutiny. Ask yourself these questions when you play CN.

>Do you throw people off of cliffs or into oncoming traffic in real life?
If no: don't do that.
>Do you rob banks in real life?
If no: don't do that.
>Do you shit on other people's tables in real life?
If no: don't do that.
>Do you enforce the law in real life?
If no: don't do that.
>Do you throw yourself into danger to save strangers in real life?
If no: don't do that.
>Do you give a significant portion of your income to charity?
If no: don't do that.

It's not rocket science. All CN really means is that you are willing to play with the law so long as you aren't actively harming anyone and think you won't be caught. People do it all the damn time on a nearly daily basis. How many of us can honestly say we've read through the book of law in our country beginning-to-end and can readily recite the law on command? No one, I'll bet.

The best motto for a CN person is probably: "we may do as we please as long as no one gets hurt." If your interpretation of CN means "I am a murderous sociopath suffering from ADD," then you are confusing mental disorders for morality.

What seems to be the issue is that I hear a lot of so-called experts selling CN as the aforementioned ADD-suffering sociopaths, because that's how they used to play them as teenagers. Not what I'd call a credible teacher. Imagine this example:

LN will never speed on the road.
TN will only speed if it's vital that they do.
CN will speed if it saves them time but unlikely to get anyone killed or injured.

Yes, no?

This is a very inaccurate post

I think most real life people fall somewhere between True Neutral and Neutral Evil, depending on where you stand on intellectual property theft and petty crimes, of which we commit a fuckton of every day

This. Most people go along with society because they're scared of the consequences if they won't, but if you give them true freedom they're fucking assholes.
Being optimistic, the majority of people are TN, being pessimistic they're NE.
Lawful alignments are the rarest.
Chaotic alignments are outcasts/drifters/hobos/you get the picture, basically anyone who refuses to play by the rules at the cost of their social status.

The fuck are you smoking? I have no idea what kind of groups you play with but nobody in my group plays like that.

By not trying to be CN and instead happening to be CN as a result of your actions and outlook.

Play your character, not your alignment.

This is how I CN

Care to elaborate?

TN I can agree with. But you must be living is a really shitty area if you'd describe your fellow citizens as NE. I live in a high crime area (I've had at least one attempt at a break-in that I am aware of), but I can't say I've seen much evidence to suggest my fellow citizens are NE, since people around this area don't walk around being complete assholes to each other.

I somehow doubt people are only abiding the law for fear of being punished. You aren't just being Good for fear of punishment in the afterlife, or being thrown out of your social circle, are you? But yes, Lawful people are rare, since most people don't actively pursue the law because it's too abstract and pointless to do so.

Also your idea of Chaotic people is ignorant at best, and harmful at worst. You don't just become a hobo because of your moral compass. It can be the result of a multitude of reasons which you may or may not have had any control of (being thrown out by your family, getting your home repossessed because you lost your job and couldn't afford rent, or your government is run by a bunch of self-interest tyrants who had your home demolished to make space for new infrastructure and left you homeless - and yes all these things happen to people who did nothing to deserve it).

The thing about CN you could argue is that you will favour doing what is easy - not what is the rightest thing to do. It is easier to go into a store and buy bread than it is to go into a store and steal it. People have ways to spot a thief, especially now with modern technology. However, thanks to the abstraction imposed by video games, the "easy" thing to do is often times the things you will find very hard to do in real life. Either due to physical limitations, or your sense of morality preventing you from doing so.

Yeah, that's basically what I was trying to say with

>TN I can agree with. But you must be living is a really shitty area if you'd describe your fellow citizens as NE.
I said, it depends on when you set the bar for Evil.
Some people only consider physical assault/crimes as evil, which is a fine point of view I don't share, but if you start including verbal abuse, bullying, a general disregard for anyone's wellbeing, crab in a bucket mentality, selfishness... These things are very widespread in modern society, and often go unnoticed because the victims are shamed into suffering in silence.
>I somehow doubt people are only abiding the law for fear of being punished.
How many people only respect speed limits because they fear fines?
How many people will judge people who speed, but when its them doing it there's always an excuse?
Again, I think you conflate being Lawful with respecting criminal code laws, with most of them being built on a fouindation of Good because moral systems are great for a society to not devour itself; but most people will happily break every civil law they can when it's convenient and there's no chance of retribution.

Disclaimer:
I'm arguing for the sake of argument, I don't actually think that a 2-axis moral system is adequate to judge the complexity that is human life, mainly because there's no divine-enforced universal laws we can rely on to make it work

I do agree. The typical alignment chart is at best a guideline. Really you can make it into a list of sliders and try to determine how much of a certain attribute applies to you.

My point was simply that CN is recklessly being sold as the "lol i can do whatever the fuck i want" alignment.

> LG->NE
Roy Moore
> CE->CG
Pierre Woodman
> LE->CN
Lena Dunham
> NE->LN
50 Cent

Chaotic neutral is libertarianism.

>tfw playing CG character, but mostly end up acting LG