Holy shit why is cardboard so expensive?! This is why mtg is dying...

Is there anything wrong with making the game more affordable?

Could be two different mods/janitors.

A full set will thin your deck a little, which ultimately isn't a big effect but it's something. Mostly they are used to fetch basics to avoid T3 Blood Moon, grab dual lands to set up your manabase, and avoid colored mana screw by getting the land you want in 3+ color decks. They can also help fill your graveyard for Goyf or delve, and if you have Crucible of Worlds or that Ramunap creature you can thin your deck of lands by replaying the fetchland. Fetchlands also make Fatal Push a powerful card, which is why even mono-black decks would play fetchlands if able just to trigger revolt.

Holy shit why is a hunk of iron so expensive?! This is why the car industry is dying, why the fuck would any normal man pay $200 000 for a heavy iron chunk that doesn't do anything if you don't pour MORE money into it, when they can get a horse drawn chariot instead

Oh, I know what Fetchlands do, user. My question still remains. Why do YOU need them? Why are you playing in a format that requires you to use expensive cards, then complaining about the price. It wasn't a hidden thing. No one lied to you about how much it would cost. Why did you make this choice?

Because if he doesn't win in Magic the Gathering then his mom will never love him.

>US currency
>paper

Read a book nigga, that shit's mostly cloth fibers.

I have a foil Scalding Tarn from Modern Masters 2017.

U Jelly?

Fuck off. You jew.

This analogy is retarded. The money one makes sense since it's a materially worthless object that has value because people want it, but those are actually expensive to manufacture.

I wanted to play Jeskai control, but with the 240€ that they cost me (I have everything else) I could buy more fun cards for commander than 4 mere fetchlands.

Horses are expensive.

Many people want it, but there is only so much supply, so the price rises. Congratulations, you know understand the the whole secondary market thingy.

And while we're at it: Where does all the entitlement come from in the mtg community, to play the most competitive decks and to pay nothing for it. If you want "professional" equipment in any hobby then except to pay a buck or two for it. If your not ready or able to pay for it, you probably don't need it at the first place.

Tl:DR - spend $100s of dollars on paper because I did too!

>(((supply)))

I've fully transitioned to playing mtg via xmage

Fuck WotC

Only if he's advocating a stance that proxies are bad.

Any decent proxy should be legal in a double sleeved deck fuck jews.

You're a fucking retarded if you think a Porsche uses more expensive materials that require it to cost double or more money than other cars

Fill it out as we go, bois.

Jewposting right here

when I was a young man, my first real set was Zendikar and I got a Scalding Tarn. then I traded it for a bunch of shitty cards to the local That Guy of Magic Stores.
If you're reading this, I hate you, unseffurable faggot. Magic is just a game, it's for fun. It's not a business practice.

>not knowing free space should always be sued for the most common thing

Learn how to Veeky Forums bingo retard.

If it just a game I'm sure you'd not mind trading your tarn for some way cooler rare cards that have effects for fun, friend :)

>>Standard is shit
>implying it's not becoming more unpopular and didn't require card bans
>>Attacking the Reserved List
>implying it wasn't a mistake
>>Muh cards are bending
>implying this isn't happening or this isn't a bad thing
I will grant you that while all bingo boards are shit, yours is not over 50% awful like most bingo boards are. Nonetheless you should delete it from your files because the meme is dumb and is full of straw.

>implying pleasing the people that actually put money in your game wasn't the right move with the reserved list

more like - you don't really need to spend $100s dollars, you should only spend $100s if that's what its worth to you and you can afford it

kitchen table is literally all you need to have fun.

Scarcity and utility drive value. And yes, it's too expensive, but no, Wizzerds won't do anything to change that.

I have a foil Scalding Tarn from Zendikar. Pulled it right after I pulled a regular Tarn, and I bought a total of five boosters from that block.

You're largely right, but there's a race to the top that happens in any setting—a Pro Tour or a kitchen table. When someone starts beating everybody with good cards, everybody else tries to get better cards. Before long, everyone's either playing competitive Magic or quitting the game. That's why it's a problem that cards are getting so expensive.

I, for one, would not mind if my pair of Underground Seas dropped back to the $164 for which I bought them.

>not just playing casual with friends
>using only printed proxies

Finally have a use for my printer and I only have to spend money on cardstock and sleeves.

"Hey let me proxy that 100§ note."
"Hey what do you mean counterfeit money is illegal"

Porsche costs twice as much as it should. Scalding Tarn costs about 6000 times more than it should.

Proxying a hundred paragraph note could lead to copyright infringement.

Hormone pills are even more expensive though

Cry more, little baby :^)

Forged wheels and carbon fiber cost more to produce than cast wheels and sheet metal, this is literally fact. Porsches markup is due to luxury image and low volume of sales but you're dumb if you think the raw material, labor, and R&D costs aren't significantly higher.

>mtg is dying
(You)

If you can't afford it, don't play, or play Limited.

>911s and GTRs should cost as much as an STI
>STIs should cost as much as an econobox
>let's ignore the fact that properly installing a complete turbo setup costs several thousand dollars in labor regardless

Chinamen fakes are the real deal. Is the fact that the community got tired of the old grongnards pull on the market. We show wizards that we won't stand the greediness of the investors and shitters who ruin mtg. The hammer of the players will crush the idiotic prices on cardboard and make the values tank. Each batch the card quality of Chinamen fakes improve, and those fakes just get more and more popular every day. Enjoy your bubble collapsing, you fags. You brought this uppon yourselves

>make the values tank
>nigga hasn't taken Econ 101
Inversely, values have been increasing rapidly with the advent of good fakes, as people are willing to pay more to trusted vendors who guarantee the authenticity of cards. They're not perfect substitute goods.

Show me a mass produced car that costs 6000 times more to buy than its manufacturing costs.

>than it should
The prices for assets with fixed supplies are subject to demand, plain and simple. There really isn't a "should" argument to be made.

Not that guy btw.

It's a great example of a Giffen good.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giffen_good

Pretty sure it cost wotc 5 cent to produce scalding tarn.

>Is there anything wrong with making the game more affordable?
Lots of people play MTG with the idea that their investment into it will still be worth something should they decide to give it up. The fact that MTG cards have value is partly why it is so popular.

Not when chinese fakes and kitchen table becomes more popular than FNM, which because of the shitty consumer base seems like a possibility.

>kitchen table becomes more popular than FNM
How would we even know?

This is a 100% certainty and always has been.

You ask any store owner who buys the most product - sealed product and they'll tell you it's people who don't even show up for FNM. They might show up for pre-releases (to get product early).

The store owners know approximately how many people are in a community playing this game from the product they buy, and they know furthermore there are sales happening at Walmart they don't know about, and when they compare their own numbers to the FNM attendance, they're so fucking imbalanced it's not even funny.

The people who play at FNM don't buy jack shit (relatively) for sealed product and do all their shopping online. And FNM just sometimes fucking fails to fire too. But the store owner knows of hundreds of people who come in every three months to pick up anywhere between a booster box to a case and walk right out. These people don't waste any time, make any long stupid conversation about "the format" or "fucking Wizards", and they often don't even know what is in a new set only that there is always a new set every three months - they're low maintenance and spend the most money these kitchen table folk.

Ask your store owner, I did. They know. Organized play is so overrated in terms of financial contribution and takes so much effort and manhours dealing with competitive folk. And it fucking kills me because I crave the organized play and talking ad nausem about the game and it kills me to see that organized play is so expensive that it's dying because you can't even convince 8 people to show up on a Friday or Saturday. We fail to show enough love for our store or the time it pretty much "donates" to us.

My store fucks me over on price. Im sick of buying shit now, so i buy chinaman chinks instead. Literally cost me like $50 to get every card in ixalan. My playgroup just adds it into our living cube and we play draft EDH.

It's highly likely the fallout from Reddit's campaign to get lootboxes classified as gambling (which has the support of policymakers in several EU nations, Australia and some US states) will lead to more government scrutiny of gaming companies.

I can see sealed Magic products being regulated similarly. So I guess you can thank EA for that.

Chinaman fakes were the best thing to ever happen to MTG.

Did you know just before the Net Neutrality vote a lot of concerned anons supporting corporate, anticonsumer positions began trying to shut down discussion of pro-consumer topics? It's interesting, isn't it. But I don't think it's comparable with the sudden upsurge in carte blanche fellation of WotC and Magic every time they're criticized. I mean, who.would seriously use Veeky Forums for corporate shilling?

I own an entire Vintage/Legacy gauntlet built mostly out of Chinaman fakes.

I disagree with what you said. I think the the existence, effort-invested into by the Chinese, and profitability of Chinaman fakes means the game is at its worst situation its ever been in. The attendance and sales numbers mean nothing if it rests on a foundation where fakes can be this profitable both for the manufacturer of the fakes and the scammers who peddle the fakes to unknowing players.

Wizards giving these people a home to make money off PAPER knockoffs this way means Wizards is fucking players at the most base levels of the game. The fact that they've boycotted pleasant human aesthetics, fired their best artists, reduced set complexity to a set-skeleton design, and have handed an monopoly to distributors in each region as well as the GP circuit monopoly to CFB who charges extreme prices for attendance as well is just a shit-coating on a shit-sundae.

Reminder that the only reason wizards haven't reprinted fetches is because they want modern to die and standard to be the only sanctioned event.

Why do you keep spamming these political whining magic threads?
We're getting one every day. Usually after the last one was deleted by mods.

Is it blissful living in such ignorance?

Standard is for beginners (Which most kids are)
Moderns is for more serious people with money
Legacy if for lifers

Yes there are some various. So don't get bent out of shape.

Yes this models works, because that is what is currently happening.

competitive players are the death of any hobby that does not become a pro sport.

i personally woudln't mind if wotc made cards more availible.
I want Eureka for my hippo deck but it costs 200 euros.. so nope.
or Chains of Mephistopheles that costs 400 euros.

reserved list is a joke

I don't agree with that. A hobby, whether or not a game is attached, dies because the player base grows fucking complacent in their fun and make it inaccessible for any new blood or just neglect to share the hobby with their children. When the players put up barriers to entry like: cost, social status, dress code, poor teaching and lessons a game goes to shit.

There are two things that are going to kill Magic: price preventing people from participating and players not giving a shit about how their stores and therefore playspaces need to make money to continue supporting the hobby. The flow of money in the game can't fucking flow if nobody is going to pay $25 for a fucking card and they need 75 of them and what little that does flow not enough of it goes towards paying the rent at the "clubhouse".

>Magic is dying because prices that are set by people buying things are causing people to not buy things

WoTC doesn't give even a single damn. The card stock used by the Chinese fakers is several orders of magnitude better than the bendy shit Wizards sends across their cutters. It's a fucking joke that some guy with a printer can produce higher quality magic card than Wizards.

/pol/, why do you keep shilling for the chinese?

this. if you're running your game in a way that counterfeiters halfway across the world are supplying a substantial amount of the demand for top-end cards, you are running your game wrong. by "wrong" I mean they could be making a lot more money, and making their customers a lot happier, but in failing to do so have allowed another entity to do so for them (and devalue confidence in the game in general)

i think the recent reprints are an attempt to address this issue, but it's really not enough yet.

But why did you not start spamming this every single day until there was a /pol/ reason for you to do so?
It's almost like your arguments are constructed for some alternate purpose.

Fucking forget the stupid fucking paper. Who gives a shit about the paper but the goddamn retards who want to nitpick.

The Chinese provide one superior thing: cost. And the only reason why they do it is because it is PROFITABLE. And it wouldn't be fucking profitable if Wizards didn't enable it. The Chinese are fucking monsters who have zero ethics or respect for IP but they are still financial animals like anybody else and they wouldn't have a seat at the table if Wizards didn't fucking give them a seat at it.

The Chinese offer cards at just over 1USD/card. This is with a 2-3 month shipping time assuming you want to get shipping free. You can compete against this price with a real legitimate product that you can buy locally or even online for 2-5USD/card. But guess what, the fucking real cards are NOT this price. The real cards are 10-500USD; a TUNDRA has had 100% inflation for the past two years; it went from 150, to fucking 600.

I've been complaining about this for years. It's not /pol/. I'll give you the fucking metaphor again - years ago I said that we have gangrene on the finger; now the flies are buzzing over a corpse. /pol/ are the fucking flies and YOU are ignoring that there's a gangrenous corpse on the slab. When the game dies it won't be because the fucking flies picked off some rotten flesh; but you'll fucking blame the flies and not the fucking flesh-eating bacteria that permeated the entire body.

user, if you were here for years, why did you only start spamming when /pol/ got here to spam this for political reasons?
Seems like you might be fibbing.

You guys are getting pretty bold with your lies

I'm just wish there were a way to fuck Wizards more directly with my dollars. Buying Chinamen fakes takes an insignificant amount of cash out of the secondary market, but that doesn't do shit to Wizards themselves.

>people getting mad at economics

Yes these could get reprinted out the ass but Wizards knows they need the investment market to exist or this cardgame has an economic crash and loses its largest contributors.

This post happens every time something cheap becomes expensive in retrospect, people act like somethings been done to them by Wizards instead of realizing its just happening without them. If you knew even slightly what was going on at the time, you were buying boxes and fetch singles when Zendikar released. New fetches, doesnt get any easier to more obvious than that.

If you miss quest threads then just head over to your containment board please

im not /pol/, i respond to these threads mostly because it's something that is obviously wrong in the game and wizards could easily address. i play mtgo frequently, attend prereleases, like the game in general, etc. but, as a person who's played for a while, most competitively during Lorwin block when even the most expensive cards were only $20, the cost of chase rares is insane nowadays and is keeping all but the most enfranchised players out

accusations of "POL!!!!!" do much more to hurt the game than actually discussing it reasonably, and turns people like me off from. the game in general is good, it could be a lot better, a big part of making it better is increasing accessability

also, im 858 not 187

Play online but not with MTGO or whatever it's called nowadays. Use xmage or cockatrice or something

Don't believe secondary market jews, you can have a perfectly functioning mana base with just filterlands and painlands

I don't care about the game, I care that you've been spamming these threads, daily, for obviously /pol/ reasons, for weeks now.
Ever since that fucking youtube lootboxer got kicked out of some kind of special boy club, you've been doing this /pol/ tantrum. Maybe even before. I'm not sure of the timeline, I just am getting tired of your shit.

I never understood why you people on both extreme ends of the spectrum put so much effort into discrediting or opposing people who know what they're talking about. It's like you don't want anything to happen. Good or bad, people make things happen; but you don't seem to want that.

It's troubling. It's the worst kind of evil; it is the evil that has no goals but to waste time.

>monsters who have zero respect for IP
Having zero respect for something that causes so much problems does not make anyone a monster

i support banning mtghq. he is a faggot neckbeard that is bad for the game. im not sure the pol boogeyman you're looking for exists though, threads complaining about the cost of the game predate the recent bannings by years

Hey, if you want to spam political junk for weeks, then you're going to get political style opposition.
I mean, you could just keep it in your general.

You could full out their surveys and express your dissatisfaction directly to them
You could send concerns to MaRo's Twitter
You could just directly contact customer service
You could just stop playing the fucking game if you hate it so much

Not the multi-daily spam we've been getting, user.
I'm getting tired of these flimsy excuses for wanting to /pol/post on Veeky Forums, and knowing that if you tried on a general, you'd get kicked out rapidly.

They know. They just can't acknowledge they know because they aren't willing to provide a solution.

Probably because all IPs of any value have extensive chinese knockoffs, and that doesn't really damage their sales in any meaningful way.
The only real reason to bring it up would be if you wanted to start some kind of shitstorm over some other, non magic related issue.
Like, maybe, politics?

I'd like to pretend there's some clever insight in this image pertaining to the issue at hand, but it just describes Veeky Forums in general

But there is no corpse user, you just say that because the game got too bad for you, but that's it. Know why Wizards doesn't listen to you or me? Because we don't actualy matter.
People who buy a few packs every so often and don't even know how much each one of their cards is worth matter, they're actually a significant part of the game. People like fucking Rudy, who actually have fucking money, who are able to buy dozens of boxes without batting an eye to scam other people with matter. Wizards isn't going to care about angering useless people like us, we're addicted to the game and even if we quit, we barely help them out. The others will gladly buy the product and pay whatever for it, without even knowing the Chinese exist or deciding they're not worth it.

Think of it like this, all those MTG gameplay channels involded in the drama can barely get a million of views. The bet the reddit can't have that and even a huge forum like MTG salvation has under half a million. Even if we took the 40% less number of 12 million seriously, we notice how small we, the Chinese and the part of the community who even considers doing anything besides trading and playing simple commander or kitchen table is, so they have no reason to change their practices.

They would be better off reprinting it. Many people would like to play modern and would if the zen fetches were priced like the others or lower. When they are staples to the degree they are the should be 10$ tops if wizards cared about getting people to play competitively. The investment market don't need cards like scaling tarn to be at 70 bucks. There are plenty of legacy stuff etc they can speculate in without impacting the more played formats negatively like this.

I've talked to people who once worked at Wizards. What I got out of it was a fairly common occurrence.

There's two kinds of hard work, the sort that maintains the status quo and the sort that progresses. The thing is, both sorts of hard work can either result in good results or bad results, nevertheless hard work was put in. What is interesting about those kinds of work is that usually they're exhibited by two different sorts of people the former by old people and the later by young people. Old people are usually tired and they don't want to risk their final stable years of income on doing anything that would jeopardize that because they're comfortable. Young people want to change things because they're wide-eyed enough to still love what they do.

What is happening at Wizards is two things, the old people who have the seniority can see the end of their lives at Wizards and shaking the boat and being forced out is not how they want their legacy to end. All their hardwork is to ensure that what is being done continues without them, which is why the reliance on the set skeleton design and concepts like NWO are so important to the company - they ensure the company doesn't collapse when the skilled designers leave, they codify design so anybody can pick it up. The young people are getting their fill of "change" but their change is changing the image of the game, which we've all talked to death is going in the wrong direction. Nevertheless, the young people think they're accomplishing something meaningful but here on Veeky Forums we don't agree with it.

The young people who want to actually improve the game's accessibility and software stability, the ones who left Wizards, met resistance from both the old people who were not interested in disrupting the budgetary structure or design structure they had grown accustom to and also by their fellow young peers who felt that the game was "good enough" and it was time to use that strength to push a social agenda.

...

>waste time
That is the goal. That's why the idiot fake /pol/acks and the idiot fake arrogant sjws are making nonsense arguments back and forth but both type the same. The game is apparently so fucked up right now that they would rather their customers fight over politics, and are seeking to divide us. Keep an eye out for the civil actual communists/nazis who want to play games and the retarded identical fake /pol/ anti-/pol/ distraction debate.

Actual /pol/ does care about the game, ironically enough. WotC maybe no longer does. There's a lot of weird junk going on behind the scenes it feels like. Bots and shills too.

>Haven't played MtG in years, sold most of my collection when I stopped
>Held onto some stuff for sentimental reasons, and a binder full of garbage I couldn't off
>Fast forward to a few weeks ago
>Buddy wants to play, decide to update the one deck I kept
>Head on down to game store, talk to MtG guys about some trades
>Some of my old garbage is worth a lot
>Foil Phyrexian Arena that I opened when it was 75 cents is now apparently 100+ dollars

I'm perfectly fine with more cardboard becoming super valuable.

Phyrexian Altar*

Fuck I keep getting those two confused.

>Deck thinning
>60 card
Oh I am laffin, please at least tell me you're not op

Please

My nigga

Unfortunately this.

Here's how to win at MTG and at life

>never buy booster packs
>never buy overpriced manafixing shit
>play pauper
>play cube
>play commander
>never go to your local gaming store, have 3 or more friends who also play magic and enjoy alcoholic beverages
>mock people who buy foils