Social Stigma

Humans are pretty into finding ways to say they're better than other humans they're never going to meet or have anything to do with.

>d) Modern society fetishizes the concept of maturity, an exercise in imagination is regarded as something childish and unfit for an adult

This is the big one, I think. Just think about the literary scene and how genre fiction is treated. If your story isn't some completely 100% possible and probable down-to-earth entirely relatable story set in the real world either in modern times or in the past, then it's scifi or fantasy escapist power fantasy garbage for pathetic manchildren who need to grow up. There is no in-between. Even classics like Lord of the Rings and Dune get snubbed and looked down on compared to Book About My Parents Arguing #293923 or World War 2 Novel #80,000,000,000. It's a bizarre obsession with looking and seeming like a mature adult, when what exactly is mature and adult varies from culture to culture and person to person, and changes over time.

Lets be real, we all know why. Tabletop games require nothing and are inherently isolating beyond the tiny tribe they create. You're creating a new social hierarchy based on an entertainment property with no physical, cultural, or intellectual requirement and which requires almost no learned skills. Not even imagination most of the time since most tabletop games spoon feed you their setting and art direction and you are picking from a selection of premade concepts to attach yourself too. Veeky Forums doesn't hate Tau because they figured out Tau are somehow bad, Veeky Forums hates Tau because their adopted tribe posits that Tau are bad and they uniformly adopt that ideology in order to situate themselves in the hierarchy.

Tabletop requires more, and isolates less, than vidya games.

Well, RPGs do. I have no experience with wargames.

...

Yeah no, you are full of shit

>Tabletop requires more, and isolates less, than vidya games.

Videogame are still pretty stigmatized and their community is constantly shown to be infantile and douchey, despite the fact that at this point basically everyone with a pulse plays some sort of videogame. There are also very skill oriented videogames out there, though few if any leave you with meaningful life skills in the way that, say, basketball or being in a band will.

The fact that the industry is worth hundreds of billions at this point means it has to be taken seriously, the corporations tell us its now ok to like videogames so we do. Tabletop is a lot more acceptable now than it used to be since geek culture is what drives the entertainment market, but it's still the escapism of otherwise socially unacceptable people. A lot of braindead unsociable smelly assholes fish, but you can eat the fish and people were fishing ten thousand years ago.

Tabletop is like any other hobby, if you present it as a reasonable and valid activity and not as a screeching autist then it's fine. It's like any other craft or skill, people won't care if you're chill. Which goes to say, if you're chill why do you give a fuck?

Uh-huh. Tabletop is an effortless social group you can literally buy yourself into by buying things and going to the local place tabletop occurs. This is also how basketball and skateboarding works, but those often require you lose the gut and take a shower.

Because you are a frog poster

...

return of the king won 11 oscars including best picture. i know you're talking about the books but it's the same kind of critic. that's not just grudging acceptance, it shares the record with ben hur.

there is a bias against fantasy, but the truth is most people who like fantasy like it specifically as "escapist power fantasy garbage". that's what the community pushes so that's what people think of the genre. and D&D is really the beating heart of that kind of fantasy so it's not like tabletop games rise above it.

Because it's not as valued as getting drunk on Saturday Night and shagging the stinking holes of some good-looking whore various chads have been over already in the last few weeks/days.

Because 99% of us are are ugly(or skinny) insecure virgins.

Because it is hard to explain what you did during a play session to the average normie, without sounding like a sperg. With video games you are referring to what happened on the screen, with tabletop you are talking about what happened in your imagination.

It is hard to communicate the tension, excitement, and feels that exist only in the heads of the people at the table.

or manlets

>reeeeeeeee roasties reeeeeeeeeeeeee i hate everyone but most of all myself

You can have fantastical elements in a novel without being lumped into the genre fiction ghetto.

>No learned skills
>No intellectual requirements
Have you even played a pen and paper tabletop with friends? Played Warhammer 40k? D&D? Looked into any tabletop systems and read through the rules?

Its pretty obvious you yourself haven't really played these games with any actual friends.

Probably because of all that frogposting.

>Basketball and being in a band leave me with meaningful life skills while videogames can't.
Examples?
I used to play Squash and Football(Not the American Football) a lot in highschool and those taught me fuck all, most video games teach me fuck all. But a few have really helped me out.

Movie references make explaining really easy, people seem to understand
"It was like that opening scene in Saving Private Ryan, but with lasers and mines all over the beach."
more than
"Our troops of the 846 Karillian Fusiliers Regiment of the Astra Militarum were doing a hot drop against a fortified enemy position with no support! We were under constant heavy stubber fire, there were mines everywhere!"

>Football(Not the American Football) a
just call it soccer

I refuse to use incorrect words just for Americans. I'm happy to add clarification so they don't get confused, but I'll start using the American words when they start speaking French so it's easier for the Frenchies to understand.

I already call 'em french fries you ungrateful cunt

>I'll start using the American words when they start speaking French
It's faux pas being so cliché.

Haven't experienced it. I work in a tech company with mostly younger people, so maybe my experience is atypical, but I don't really think it is.

Shows like Stranger Things and The Big Bang Theory are exposing tabletop games to a wider audience. "Nerd" doesn't mean what it used to. People play shitty board games like "How Do You Meme" or "Exploding Kittens". Tabletop and board games are more normie-friendly and approachable now than ever.

My coworkers all know I drink beer, roll dice, and pretend to be a dwarf every Thursday. To my knowledge, this has not affected my ability to interact with them. I don't think it's affected my love life either, or, if it has, I'm still pretty pleased with it.

The stigma surrounding tabletop games is dying the same way the stigma surrounding video games did. More media exposure and wider audiences getting into it.

Dumb frogposter, go back to /pol/

B-but normies can't like what i like, that makes it bad!

Missed an a after the it's.

Why not call them chips?

because it's the french who helped us overthrow the british, so we call them french fries.
It's a goddamn honor.

I should have suggested using Mandarin words, I forgot Americans get a hard on for Frenchies.

because it's autistic as all fuck

>guys pretending to be fantasy warriors casting magic and shit instead of looking for pussy

I don't know, you tell me.

magic is real though.

before the jew nwo christian demon civilisation creators came, all peoples (european, african, native american, asian) had magical powers, actual magic like casting fireballs, nature magic like causing roots to grab people, etc

But only because literary critics have invented the "magical realism" exception to the ghetto. In a lot of ways, it's worse.

literary critics are garbage. Everything they hail as a classic is genre fiction.

you believe in what you want, just keep in mind that you can pretend to drive a car, even if they do exist
did i phrase that right?

The word soccer has a certain je ne sais quoi

Okay, that's not fair. Tonal languages are bullshit unless you grew up speaking one.

ayo we wuz wizards n shiet
>collective crotch grabbing and shuffling

i am speaking the truth
every race was magical before the abrahamic religions and (((Civilisation)))

It would have gotten my point across better without just ending up with retards using some of the French words that are mixed into English in response.

Telling someone not speaking American English to call football soccer, is like a French person telling an American to say bonjour instead of Hello.

dude i want some of whatever shit you're havin

fpbp. There's no stigma against Veeky Forums anymore

Portland fag, I'm not ashamed at all here. Everyone I know is a nerd/weeb

>I won’t use Americanisms until you burgers start speaking French!
>...Y-y-you’re not actually speaking it! You’re just saying a few French words!
>I still won’t do what you say because I’m better than you!
Man, Lance Armstrong really must have had an impact on you frogs for how much backpedaling you tend to do in arguments.

RotK is also nearly 15 years old. Not exactly a good barometer of current opinion.

The first thing you need to learn is that the world is a conflict between Barbarism (superior, individualistic) and Civilisation (inferior, appeals to masses). It's a war between the noble pagan gods and the abrahamic yaweh

Robert E Howard's hyboria and Tolkien's middle earth came from our collective unconciousness, so the stories were real, and the world was real (not exactly the same but mostly true)

The earth is hollow, and many of the fairies and elves and gnomes and dryads retreated there when christianity with its degenerate masses came.

There used to be huge, ancient trees, bigger than the biggest redwood, as wide as a skyscraper and taller than one, that were cut down by the (((civilised))) degenerate christians.

How do you explain all the non-Abrahamic civilisations, then?

>mfw MtG faggots have some false sense of superiority when looking down at other people who play card games that aren't Magic
really fucking annoying

I look down on card games that you don't play campaigns with.

It became apparent to me that if you bottle up all that rage and bitterness, supress it, pack it into a little box and throw that little piece of shit into the sea, one can actually become a chad through sheer strength of will and liberal application of iron.

It then becomes apparent that fellow chads, if sufficiently enamoured with you, will actually sperg out with you on rpglotr and the like, and you will thus find yourself coming full circle.

Not only by yourself, but with a full flock.

Truth.

>when the american intellectual attempts to connect the dots
>he's so far off all you can do is pity him

>literary critics are garbage. Everything they hail as a classic is genre fiction.

Their hypocrisy is fucking staggering. They'll call Dune and Lord of the Rings classics, but if Dune -- that is to say, a book about a multi-generation space dynasty on a desert planet battling over a substance that grants the psychic ability to navigate the stars (which is necessary because "thinking machines" are forbidden) -- was released today, the literary critics would either soundly and completely ignore it just for being genre fiction, or they would drop their trousers, squat in a circle around it, and spray wet shit all over it just for having the gall to be low-brow low-class science fiction for plebes and cavemen, instead of a mature book for mature readers like themselves.

Also, inb4 some Veeky Forums crossboarder tries to tell me Dune is bad (yeah yeah, the later books are trash, this is a known fact, shut up)

go back earlier to that.
Shakespeare. Ghosts. Witches. All sorts of fantastical nonsense.

The illiad. Literally all magic.

The original story, progenitor of written history and first tale of the folly of the immortal, the epic of gilgamesh:
CHOCKED TO THE BRIM with magic.

You two are 100% fucking right. All these classics, the actual classics, are full of fantastical elements and mythical creatures, and are hailed as being so important and so life-changing to read and so influential and so well-written and good.

And what I described above is exactly what would happen if they were to be released today. Escapist fantasy garbage for basement-dwelling neckbeards and autistic shut-ins. Not worthy of being taken seriously or analyzed with any sort of effort or depth, because the presence of magic swords and hydras.

Bunch of gigantic fucking hypocrites. Nope, it's all gotta be dry realism. Anything else is trash.

>Videogame are still pretty stigmatized
Not really. I work in a manufacturing plant and a good portion of the guys there all play vidya. They don't go after the niche stuff, but CoD, Halo, some random smattering of sports games, and stuff like League and DotA are all fairly common.

It's mostly the random news stations that stir shit up, and there opinions haven't been relevant for anything for years.

>Tabletop games require nothing and are inherently isolating beyond the tiny tribe they create. You're creating a new social hierarchy based on an entertainment property with no physical, cultural, or intellectual requirement and which requires almost no learned skills. Not even imagination
No! I don't think so.
Not it at all, really.

A literal child can play 40k and dnd. Hell, in 7th that chicken that wins tic tac toe at a carnival could win with eldar if you gave it enough wraithknights.

Lets not get high on ourselves, these games are not hard.

Children play Basketball and skateboard all the time...

The difference is a child couldn't beat Kobe Bryant just because the dice were in his favor that day

A child can't beat whoever is really good at 40k at the moment either.
And in something like D&D the goal isn't to beat each other up so your example is irrelevant to that.

Sure he can, he just has to be REALLY lucky

Is...

Is that supposed to be Jon Arbuckle?

You could say the same about Basketball retard, it's entirely possible Kobe Bryant trips and dies or something.
Unlikely? Yes.
Possible? Yes.
Just like a kid rolling so cosmically well that he beats someone despite being terrible.

Have you considered that you're either very biased or very dumb?

Not really, there's a skill barrier in an activity that isn't just modified chance rolls.

LotR has had positive and negative reviews all over the place. I love it, but it hasn't always been loved. A huge swathe of his own peers, other sci-fi and fantasy authors, thought it was not good. It was criticized not as being immature, but being anglocentric, based on classic power-structures that Europe was growing out of, for advocating the slaughter of one's enemies. Chew on this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reception_of_J._R._R._Tolkien

Shakespeare's work had magic, but it also had compelling, original plots, relatable characters some philosophy and loads of jokes about T&A. It was low-brow as shit, and gets retroactive praise largely as a result of its mass appeal and fame.

The Iliad and the Odyssey were both epics that are praised not only for their compelling plot, but also as pieces of living history. They were important from a literary standpoint for multiple reasons, but most notably as evidence of how ancient greeks told their history, and how they looked at events through the lens of their religion.

Shit gets better with time, usually after the author's death, which is unfortunate.

Remember the famous line, "80% of scifi is crap"? When there was outrage, Sturgeon replied "80% of everything is crap". Everything gets shit on by critics, and 80% of those critiques are up their own ass, too.

Pull your head out your ass with your confirmation bias. A lot of fantasy is schlock, just like a lot of everything is schlock. "Immature" and "power fantasy" are not bad labels for a lot of the crap that somehow gets published. It isn't the fantastic elements that get trashed, you dolt, it's the power part.

An important part of any game with chance is controlling your chance.
There is not skill element if you cannot control your chance.
Controlling odds, minimising the opponents, while maximising yours, is an important part of the skill of the game.
And you just ignore that any of that exists by retardly spouting:
>BUT WOT IF I ROLL REAL GUD DEN I BEAT ANYONE

Theoretically you could roll super well, and the opponent could roll super badly, although if they were far more skilled even then they're likely to win due to being able to garuntee things, but the chances of this are just as high as the opposing basketball team all falling over and breaking their necks.

> d) Modern society fetishizes the concept of maturity, an exercise in imagination is regarded as something childish and unfit for an adult

/thread

Sadly our games are regarded as mere childish things to be discarded on the path to becoming a True Adult.

Oh shit guys, /x/ has arrived

He could in 7th user. It was barely a game at all and that child rolled the right psychics.

Not to mention AOS is even more simplified

>Why not call them chips?
Because it's objectively wrong. Britfags are the worst at etymology.

>It was criticized as being being anglocentric
Wow. A story about the peoples of Europe is anglocentric? How is that even a fucking criticism?

Filthy Anglophobes.
ANGLO PRIDE WORLD WIDE

How about no.

God damn user, you need to write an urban fantasy setting.
Mostly since it'll keep you busy for about 12 months minimum and thus keep the rest of us safe from you but also partially because I want to see a game where I can play a Hyborian barbarian teleported into the modern era with favored enemy: ZOG

I dunno, a lot of the ancient classics would get called power fantasies nowadays.
I've seen power fantasy applied, correctly, to tragic ass shit in the modern day.

1- it's not a sport, your body gets 0 value out of it
2- it's not directly artistic (unless you're willing to base a book out of it or taking acting class)
3- it's literally a game of let's pretend, pure escapism that is multiplied even more since it's a bunch of people playing it instead of one daydreaming privately
4- because it's a form of escapism it often lure all kind of weird people that were stuck in their teens for so long (read as: manchildren neets)

It only went viral because it was marketed as a social event where you can hang out with your family or friend while taking drinks and cool stuff instead of dwelling in a basement with a bunch of smelly losers who wear weird outfits.

Have you ever studied anything that requires real effort?

Soccer is the more exact term, being short for association football. In fact, if we call soccer and rugby by their own names, we should do the same for gridiron.

Its not because of the game you play, hell I've always been kind of interested in trying this shit out. The stigma attached usually caries from the people playing the game.The few dudes I knew back from highschool where all wannabe edgelords who said shit like "My parents don't accept my love for demons" unironically and circljerked about how big of sociopath vampire lovers they were. They also played in public which gave them the same stigma as people who play their 3DS in public.