Honestly, are proxies the cure that MTG needs? Lowers barriers to entry, promote more fun and games...

>decks are based on skill instead of $$$
Understanding meta and being able to build a deck with limited resources has always required a far deeper skill set than simple "playing skill."

Giving everyone access to the same unlimited resource pool makes the game even more about luck, not skill. This is a take that's nearly as awful as "mana is a bad mechanic."

I've watched quite a bit of floppy taco content myself and while he does answer the question are investors good for the market I completely forgot what that answer was.
Even in WH 40k proxies are shunned because it hurt GW in the long run. Proxies seem like the natural evolution to price gouging. I'd like to see this thread further on in the week if it doesn't get deleted by reports from shills like

Mana screw and a predeliction towards always going to one extreme or the other for mana fixing are the problems. Not sure how to fix them but it's a barrier to fun fair play that isn't the same as other rare cards.

>floppy taco content
What is this gobbledygook you're spouting?

How new are you to mtg?

Seriously I'm just curious. Everyone state your years and opinion of the reserved list.

I've been playing since late Mirrodon/Innistrad(Early 2012ish. 5 years). I couldn't care less about the reserved list or the price of cards. I've spent easily 3k or so on mtg. Possibly 4k or so. Not a richfag either, not even an often employed fag.

I'm willing to bet that you're on the 2 or 3 year mark tops.

>Giving everyone access to the same unlimited resource pool makes the game even more about luck, not skill
wew

Rudy please not here. Think of the children!
>unlimited resource
>look guys I've made an infinite supply of money
Teach me your ways master.
>look guys I gave each of you an equal amount of pieces
>Literal chess

>Doesn't understand "Yikes" meme
You're a faggot mate.

>Everyone state your years and opinion of the reserved list.
I've been playing since Alliances, played quite heavily from Masques through to Eventide, and more casually for the rest of the time.

The reserve list was a slapdash and frantic response to mistakes made by Wizards, in order to save the game from obliterating itself via Chronicles.

It saved the game at the time. Nowadays, it's just kind of a thing. Most of the cards on it either don't need reprints because they are buttfucking useless (When was the last time you heard someone crying out for a reprint of Elephant Graveyard?) or they shouldn't get reprints, because they are legendary cards and deserve their value in some sense. (Blotus, Library etc.)

The reserved list is something of a foundation that makes sure, no matter how bad Wizards fucks up (And oh boy, do they ever know how to fuck up.) at least a small set of cards will always maintain some value.

It is healthy for the game.

>Keeping Magic expensive just makes people who might otherwise be willing to put in the effort less likely to give it a try.
A booster pack costs four fucking dollars. Going to a prerelease is like thjrty bucks, drafts are cheaper. If someone interested in getting into the game isn't willing to shell out some chump change to pick up a few cards, then they really weren't interested to begin with.

Most of the time, it's actually free because a friend gets them into it and gives them cards.

Any new player that says "I've only been playing MTG for a month, but boy do I sure wish I could afford to play Vintage!" is one bizarre anomaly within the universe.

they only "ruin" vintage/legacy and competitive edh, honestly who cares let them have their containment formats

>competitive edh

What are actually the arguments why you shouldn't be able to buy every card for example for 1$ per card?

>What are actually the arguments why you shouldn't be able to buy every card for example for 1$ per card?
Fuck off, commie scum.

This.

No I want to play modern, but tarns are like $70, shocks are like $15.

Don't forget modern.

Yea but most people don't play FNM and have a casual group to play with. Ask any LGS owner and these are the peoplebuying MTG prices, it not the tournament players, it the casuals who come in evey paycheck and picks up a booster box here and there. These groups get destroyed buy that "one guy" who net decks the best that it makes people no longer willing to play the game.

With proxies everyone has access tot eh cards he/she wants.

People like rudy just stockpiles more and more shit, creating artificial scarcity. You know what would fix MTG? If wizards just at least prints the old duel lands to death, seriously mana base with no longer be a problem and they wouldn't have to create so many duel lands.

How would that be feasible outside a digital tcg?

its a terrible idea but you could have boxes instead contain guaranteed sets of cards, ie 80 cards listed on the box for 80$

This is course then ignores the secondary market making the entire thing pointless

>dual

print dual lands with upside to really fuck them over.

>Yea but most people don't play FNM and have a casual group to play wit

Many of those casual groups are wishing to include new players even if theyre also sitting on a ton of old players and their cards.

Many casual groups have been playing together for awhile, and even if the expense isnt as much a thing as they have a bunch of old stuff from way back, new players are an issue and the backbone of the game.

The games health and its players make its value and that means new players not sitting on old policy so investors can ruin a game for a few years of moving money around, or you can win in lieu of skill because you have expensive cards not easily accessed by newer players.

I hate to break it to you user, youre part of the problem too.

>creating artificial scarcity.
>This asshole bought the Mona Lisa! Now there is an artificial scarcity on original copies of the Mona Lisa
lol @ people who don't understand basic shit...

The scarcity is REAL, ya dingus. That's why shit's valuable.

Oh and since you seem to care 3rd ed / arabian nights.

Ugh, i'm a new/returning player. I'm advocating for proxies or at least cheaper cards. I made my Cube composed mainly of proxies. I agree it bullshit, when someone goes down to an LGS and they see the price of some cards, "search of azcanta" $12, it gonna turn people off from the game. Why get 4 cardboard pieces, when they can get a game for that cost? If it was $1-$4 it wouldn't be that bad.

LCG do it. And as far as I know Netrunner is still running and the L5R National in Spain had like 400 poeple in it.

The edition I left Magic was Mercadian Masques. It is not the cost but it is just that the amount of cards coming out each year is mind blowing. And with those cards come new rules, etc.

And between work and family I don't have the time to dig deep. So I like to invest my hobby time into something I can overlook. Another game I really enjoy is Lord of the Rings LCG.
I know that I can get every card from a circle whenever I want and don't have to look at somekind insane secondary market. So no need to rush it.

Except the mona lisa gets recreated all the time. Your comparing one unique original to cardboard that has thousands of copies that can't meet the demands of the consumers because of the supply chain that wotc sets up:

It gets worse when new players start to realize the price of scaling with an established group means triple digit cards.

No, the common / uncommon / rare / etc distribution is something that WotC deliberately creates. It doesn't cost them any more to print a common than a rare, thus why it's "artificial". If you want to compare it to anything, a better analogy might be currency - art doesn't make any sense.

>It doesn't cost them any more to print a common than a rare, thus why it's "artificial".
I'm sure everybody would love Wizards to go back in time and print seven billion copies of Black Lotus.

Time travel isn't possible.

The print run of Black Lotus was not infinite.

The scarcity actually exists.

But they could reprint them. Nothing would stop stop them

>How would that be feasible outside a digital tcg? Cost to implement hovers around $0.04 - $0.05 per card (and that's if you don't do it yourself) + shipping, so it's almost pure profit.
Print on demand is an obvious option.

If they ever decide to burn the IP, they could easily make one more quick billion dollars by just putting every card ever up for PoD, $1 a card and free shipping if you get at least, say, 50.

>But they could reprint them. Nothing would stop stop them
Yeah, they tried before. It was called Chronicles literally almost killed MTG.

You must be new here.

Honestly, most people don't want black lotus, I do want fetches, shocks, filters readily available to play with friends, and rotated out mythics.

>You must be new here.

Not new to Veeky Forums but not farmiliar to MTG. So Why did Chronicles nearly killed MTG?

The scarcity exists because WotC arbitrarily decides not to print Black Lotus. There's nothing binding about that, though. They could decide tomorrow that the next set will contain BL as a common, and print a million of em. "Artificial" doesn't mean "imaginary" - but the scarcity absolutely is artificial. The actual cost of WotC reprinting a black lotus is equal to the cost of printing a basic land.

no. If you are worried about barrier to entry just have a card represent the one you want, instead of wasting your money on a fake. If you are not an asshole your friends will be okay with it.

>I do want fetches, shocks, filters readily available to play with friends
So buy some. They're, like, 10 to 30 bucks user... that's not that bad.

Or keep complaining.

That doesn't really solve anything about the secondary market, yeah. The Commander precons are the best example of this, loadsa value but certain cards are still $10+
I getcha. I have a lot of free time outside studies atm, so time is not really a concern for me. I've kind of solved the money problem by just playing casual Commander. I used to play in our uni's proxy Legacy tournament, but i got turned off by the sheer complexity and the people there. It's just not worth my time.

Yea but having a deck filled with sharpie out shit is stupid. I'd rather spend money on fakes so it makes it easier for me and my friends to play with.

We have a rule, it doesn't have to be real, but it can't be ugly. Meaning no printer and no sharpies.

I'm OP, I already did, 30 cents a piece. Feels good man.

>Even in WH 40k proxies are shunned because it hurt GW in the long run.
Fucking good. I hope it becomes bigger in 40k, then maybe if Games Workshop will have to lower their godawful prices.

you really waste your money on fakes? Why not then just buy the cards, you could at least use them in official events.
You and your friends have a weird logic.

>So Why did Chronicles nearly killed MTG?
Reprinting sought after cards destroyed secondary markets. Cards that were worth a ton of money suddenly were worth nothing. Everybody lost trust in WotC, because buying and collecting MTG was no longer a safe investment.

It was the one time that you can actually say MTG nearly died. A ton of other smaller things happened, but Chronicles and its decimation of trust in markets and in WotC was the closest it ever came.

The reserved list was a response to that. Without it, there's good reason to suggest that MTG would have just tapered off and died.

>I'm OP, I already did, 30 cents a piece. Feels good man.
>This idiot wasted his money on fake fucking cards
I would say you got scammed, but... is it even a scam if you know ahead of time and fucking do it anyways?

Are people actually this stupid?

If proxies get more people playing good formats like Legacy instead of shit ones (most others) then they're good.
The secondary market deserves to crash and WotC has been hopeless for many years now.

>We have a rule, it doesn't have to be real, but it can't be ugly. Meaning no printer and no sharpies.
Wait...

>This idiot is willing to actually waste his own money on fake cards, but is unwilling to not waste money by making his own fake cards because they "be ugly"
holy shit lol

Like alot of people, I don't play in tournaments. I have a play group. I also have a decent well paying job, but i'm not gonna spend thousands on this game.

It costs me $13 to get 54 cards of anything I want. If I paid for real cards, they would be no use for me.

>If I paid for real cards, they would be no use for me.

>It costs me $13 to get 54 cards
Are you serious? You wasted $13 for 54 fakes?
If you are going to buy fakes, at least don't waste your money like that. Seriously, I can get the above quality with a decent printer.

>Everybody lost trust in WotC, because buying and collecting MTG was no longer a safe investment.
So only collectors lost trust. I don't think it was everybody.

I get more value out of 54 fakes based on their utility playing, than benefiting from the secondary value of a real card. Sure whatever I spend on my cards I will never recoup, but $300 is a reasonably annual expense, shit I spend like $900-$1000 eating out with friends a month.

>I can get the above quality with a decent printer.
What if user doesn't have a decent printer. 13 $ for 54 cardboard tokens of your choice sounds way more economical than spending 4 digits for the same cards. And if he only plays in his play group and not in official event Good for him I say.

The fakes I have are blue core and they feel nice in a sleeve. A printer like that would cost me several hundreds.

Nailed it. I don't think snow duals will happen either, sadly.

With the growing population & playerbase combined with exponential birthrate however? this is going to be an interesting game in 20 years. I'm personally stocking up on as much as the old beaut cards that are nice for cube now. I love pre-9th ed borders so much. The red border was pure sex. Best version by far.

Pic related

agreed apart from lands

lotus and other power 9 can stay in the vintage circlejerk but legacy is dead because of dual lands being on the list

Have you ever been this much of a shitter that any suggestion your games market is shit has you crying over a /pol/ boogies.

>I love pre-9th ed borders so much.
the foil cards from back then looked SO GOOD.

Don't you ever post a rudy pic again.

You're a literal manchild. Try talking to the players in your group.

UhhrrrrrRRGNNNNNNNgngG

you got scammed. Trust me, when I say you could have made those yourself for a lot less.
But if you like wasting your money like that fine.
Really don't get your logic in wasting money on fakes.

And I don't get wasting money on secondary cardboard

Poorfags are the absolute fucking saltiest

Please tell us how we could produce high quality fakes for cheap? I'm not buying high grade printer for that. I would rather put that money on the fakes.

Lol he gonna tell you to print it at work at put it in a sleeve with a basic land. Kid has probably never felt/seen a high quality fake in a sleeve. I make sure mine is noted as a proxy to distinguish them from my other real cards. But in sleeves they all feel like the same shit.

>agreed apart from lands
Actually, even with all that I said, I am 100% on board with original dual lands being taken off the reserved list.

Legacy is the best format MTG has to offer (Except maybe original RGD draft but heyo that's getting as expensive as Legacy nowadays.) so I'd love to see it get some support.

>The fakes I have are blue core and they feel nice in a sleeve. A printer like that would cost me several hundreds.
>He doesn't print out cards on cheap paper and glue them to his copies of Evolving Wilds
Literally repulsive.

Chess is low-randomization high-skill by design. Magic is high-randomization low-skill. Giving everyone in Magic access to the same resource pool doesn't increase the amount of skill required to play the game, it just removes the skill in deckbuilding because a handful of optimal decks will rise to the top once everyone has equal access to them. That means that games will be determined by either a rock-paper-scissors style of randomization of opponents, and/or the randomization of the deck contents in each game. It becomes more luck-based.

The better analogy would be if each player in Chess started the game with a random assortment of pieces picked from the same pool. This doesn't make chess a more skillful game, it makes the randomization matter more.

Fair point but the randomized pieces involved require skill to maneuver around the opponent.

Holy shit those look good, where did you get them?

where did you get these made?

Go check out makeplayingcards, but refer to bootlegmtg for a guide on creating other cards not in his google drive.

if its only for kitchen playing, I'm ok with this.

Legacy and vintage are the only good formats. Not every new player has shit taste like you.

>like you have the right to tell what ok and not ok.

I did cast FOS but maybe you can counter with C&D

What makes people believe that MTG is an investment?

The amount of money people are willing to give for cardboard.

>Buy shockland for $8 when it is in the current standard
>Wait 4 years
>Shockland is worth $10-$20 depending on colors
Basically just wait and money spent on good cards becomes more money. Im sure theres better ways to invest but you cant whoop someones ass with your quarterly PayChex dividends

the same thing that makes people believe in cash, crypto, or stocks as an investment. it's a symbolic value attributed by a bunch of people clapping their hands together.

That a big if, on reprints though. Filterlands were the best and we have not seen them inawhile. Hell filterlands are the closet we have to the original duels.

Cash isn't an investment. Holding onto cash is one of the worst things you can do owing to inflation.

Magic the gathering is dying anyway

I'm assuming one can put them all on a sheet in an image/pdf format then print them that way?

Have you guys considered just not being poor?

You could, but then it not blue core paper and is gonna feel like shit. Most of what I got feels like a mtg card.

How was your process for getting them then? Individual orders per card?

54, blue core, in a white box.

WEW LAD

I see, alright, thanks for the info.

...

The jews didn't kill his mom!