>30k TACTICA & TIPS What to include in a HH list, how to format it, what makes each legion special (crunch), tactics, Tutorials for Heresy-era minis and more pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
So, let's talk about which legions and armies need fixes. Sons of Horus used to be awful but are now in a very solid place, what other legions need a helping hand like that? How would you even fix Word Bearers, Emperor's Children or Night Lords when their whole gimmick is something that doesn't really matter in 30k? Which legions need the nerfhammer the most? Outside the legions, I think we all agree that custodes have shitawful internal balance and need retuning on, like, half their units, but what about the other armies?
Blake Turner
+++ user Anonington's Totally Definitive And Not Subjective Whatsoever List +++
>legions/primarchs mostly improved by their depictions in BL White Scars Imperial Fists World Eaters Ultramarines Thousand Sons Sons Of Horus Word Bearers Alpha Legion
>legions/primarchs mostly not really impacted by their depictions in BL Emperors Children (basically as expected) Space Wolves (still pretty marmite, most people probably) Blood Angels Death Guard
>legions/primarchs mostly made worse by their depictions in BL Dark Angels Iron Warriors (apart from one book) Night Lords Iron Hands Salamanders Raven Guard (WHY ARE YOU SO STUPID CORAX)
Bentley Campbell
I feel like Word Bearers are going to get an indirect buff from the Angelus demon list. Emp's Children aren't terrible but they suffer from mono list syndrome. Night Lords accurately reflect how they did in the Heresy.
Xavier Evans
Not sure I'd completely agree about EC. Bonus initiative is pretty useful when most fights are mirror matches, although it doesn't help that generally you take an unwieldy AP2 weapon (fist or axe) or don't bother. Anyway, I think this would help: >phoenix power spear: S+1, AP2, Two Handed, Unwieldy, Thunderous Charge >Thunderous Charge: ignore the effects of the Unwieldy rule if the model charged this turn (the same rule Eidolon has, for consistency's sake) Boom, phoenix terminators fixed, palatine blades have a little boost, and characters can't be fucked by the cunning process of refusing the challenge for the one and only round of combat they have AP2.
>most people probably "...didn't get their opinions changed by their books". Don't know how that disappeared.
Oliver Gray
As much as an XX fag as I am idk if they 'mostly' improved. I like that they got fleshed out but I still don't know how I feel about the Alpharius/Omegon division. I get that it adds an option for people who want traitor XX and loyalist XX while getting to be sneaky beaky both ways... But it just feels kind of inconsistent with the whole 'one will, one mind, unbroken' philosophy they have.
I can kind of just reconcile it as they appear fractured and Alpharius simply was going deep undercover or something.
Samuel Lee
Night Lords doing just as shitty on the tabletop as they do in the fluff is nice for consistency's sake, but I doubt NL players are too hot on it. I mean, that's what I assume, I don't actually know anybody masochistic enough to actually play the bastards. And WB getting buffed by the new daemon list feels also kinda shitty. "Dark Eldar are fine, just take a minimal DE force and ally in Craftworld Eldar with the rest of your points." didn't paint a healthy picture of the Dark Eldar back i the day, either.
Josiah Scott
What would you do to fix WB and NL? Fear is nice but on average it gets ignored and there are a few legions that ignore it entirely. Maybe some other mechanic? Word Bearers shouldn't have to take allies with demons to use their units. Merge the lists.
Isaiah Sullivan
> eew I stepped in shit
What Legion colours for Bitchnought? Raven Guard loyalist Leviathan. Also what does Melta damage look like? I want him sawn in half at the waist.
Carter Harris
Night lords. Melt the plastic where he got hit.
Henry Sanders
World Eaters- Caedere Weapons are all horrible. Total rethink across the board. Similar for Angron and Rampagers. Would be nice for the Loyalist LA to be as good as the traitor; as it stands, Rage is just too good to pass up.
Death Guard could really use Rad Grenades as standard equipment, without a Rite. Makes WYSIWYG a real chore. Similarly, big fan of giving Iron Warriors Phosphex Bombs and Raven Guard Shroud Bombs. Raven Guard gaining an alternate 'Heavy 1, Precision Shot' mode on their Bolters would be fun but unnecessary. Similarly Mor Deythan make horrible snipers for how iconic they are.
Word Bearers seem pretty shitty on paper. They just come across as Erebus, Gal Vorbak and allies. Making Channelling much cheaper would be a good thing. Maybe free or upgraded Vexilia as they fall into Chaos.
Anthony Wilson
As a salamander i would like to sweep advance something once in my life
Ryder Harris
Night Lords or Word Bearers. Aka the bitch legions
Joseph Clark
fulgrim is now a loyalist and ferrus manus a traitor, how does horus heresy ultimately turns out?
Adrian Carter
Even tougher for the loyalist, ferrus was second to the warmaster in war
Camden Bailey
Hoenstly, I have no idea how to fix NL. Fear being garbage is hardly new, but I still feel like there should be no outright immunity to it in the game outside of maybe custodes, since fear-immunity does shit-all against most legions but specifically screws over NL. Beyond that, maybe play around with Leadership some more. Make Trophies free like chainaxes and make them impose -1LD for all fear tests, with Fear baseline for every NL, something along those lines maybe.
WB are probably more involved when it comes to fixing them, since their rules are a wild mess. The basic idea of high bravery is good and I'd leave True Believers as is. Dark Channeling I'd change to being more straightforward: Roll a d6, add +1 to the stat rolled: (1-WS 2-BS 3-S 4-T 5-I 6-Ld), with every non-daemon unit being able to buy it by default. Diabolists instead give Legiones Astartes (Word Bearers) to units of Gal Vorbak they join, are Malefic Daemonolgy psykers by default and have Hatred. Charismatic Leadership is changed so that Chaplains, Centurions and Diabolists don't take up force-org slots anymore. Several rites and units beyond that would also need fixing, but I'm tired.
Ethan Torres
Probably worse for loyalists. Ferrus Manus was up there with Horus as far as war strats went.
Charles Ward
Considering Horus exceptionally high opinion on Ferrus, I'd assume things would be a lot harder. Unless, of course, Fulgrim still wins the fateful duel.
Evan Hughes
Unlikely without the chaos roids
Charles Ward
he was almost beaten even with the chaos sword, if his opponent had it, fabulous fulgrim(tm) would certainly be a goner.
Jacob Kelly
Depends, does Slaanesh encourage Ferrus to wear a helmet?
Aiden Gomez
...
Kevin Scott
would it even be slaanesh to tempt ferrus? considering his difference in thought, wouldn't his corruption come from another source?
John Russell
Id say the Wolves as a legion havent been made or worse, but holy fuck has Lemans rep taken a battering.
>inb4 it couldnt get any worse
Jace Flores
Honestly, I feel it could go either way. On the one hand, yes, Ferrus was a skilled leader and would've been able to put the IH's armory to brutal use. However, Fulgrim and the EC's prowess was exactly what Horus wanted them for in the first place, and if they were not corrupted they would've been a serious threat to Traitor forces as well.
How the IH Legion itself handles their corruption would probably decide their ultimate usefulness. Do they remain viable as a fighting force like the Iron Warriors, or go full retard like World Eaters or Emperor's Children?
Isaac Carter
so Id bump then down to the next tier* Sorry its late.
Daniel King
>go full retard like World Eaters >implying World Eaters weren't already full retard
Noah Clark
they were just 80% retard, it isn't that much
Charles Lopez
>would it even be slaanesh to tempt ferrus? Well SOMEONE'S got to be the Slaanesh legion, so who's it gonna be, Curze?
Carter Sullivan
Angron murdered the other 20% on Isstvan.
Adam Long
Speaking of which, what happened to the Isstvan system after the Heresy, was it exterminated.
Andrew Campbell
What was left of it was presumably purged
Asher Wilson
>Play Custodes versus World Eaters >Valdor charges Angron Turn 3 >Angron literally misses every Attack >Valdor hits and wounds with ever Attack >Angron fails every single one >Opponent is visibly frustrated >Ask him if he’d like to reroll them all >He does >Fails every single roll again >Opponent puts hand out to shake and concedes
You guys ever have weird moments in your games like that?
Lucas Foster
this guy again wow we get it you've got a IRON hardon for Manus' dingus
Benjamin Jackson
Angron finally got his deathwish answered.
Josiah Thomas
>angron will never spike his hair up in a giant orange mohawk and go solo to find the biggest alien monsters he can in the hope that one of them is strong enough to kill him Worst timeline.
Nathan Long
Is there a reason why this still active and ongoing book series thats continuity heavy has no single format other then ebooks that has every entry available? Because I hate ebooks, and for whatever reason the books aren't all available in either hardback, paperback or trade paperback, not even from Black Library itself.
How the hell is anyone supposed to enter this series if they aren't already in it?
Jace Hughes
Not even the same guy but wathever
Brandon Miller
>I hate ebooks Found your problem, chief. Anything else you need taken care of?
Kayden Gomez
Fuck ebooks
Henry Russell
I guess its because BL dont want to print dozens of short stories and novellas that wont sell by a large amount unlike the full novels. They do tend to clump them into printed anthologies when there are enough storied for one arc or about one aspect. To be honest its not like reading every short story or even every novel is required to get into the lore.
Parker Walker
What are people's thoughts on using an Orion Gunship in a 3k game? I know it's not the best unit ever but I'd like to use it every once in a while.
Kayden Collins
True but my statement was limited to the numbered series. I want to buy the books, but I want them to be in the same format, and on neither Black Library nor Amazon can you get them all in hardcover, paperback or trade paperback. Hell some can't be bought in any physical format.
Caleb Gutierrez
FERRUS WAS FOREVER YOUNG!
Christopher Bell
So whatever happened to that fluff about custodes not working together as soldiers? Seems like in Inferno they had no problems at all. It was nice to see the golden boys have at least one flaw.
Leo Edwards
They don't work together as soldiers. They can fight in tandem very well but don't actively fight for one another.
Evan Sanchez
Question.
Do Combi-Flamers obtain Rending and Sniper from the Marksmen selection for Veterans?
Would Plasma suffer from AP change as it takes on the role of a Sniper weapon?
Justin Gutierrez
What would be an uncommon field of knowledge for a custodes ?
Adrian Thomas
Combi-flamer gain rending and sniper, but since there's no to hit roll, you only have the effect of rending
Blake Williams
Combi-Flamers get rending and sniper form marksman.
You always use your lowest AP from sniper.
Hunter Cook
>basket weaving >rug making Or I dunno maybe they would do that as well with deadly intent and laser precision.
Asher Gutierrez
Bants
Henry Johnson
How does Guiliman's "The Arbitrator" work? It says it's a combi-bolter. Is that 30k short-hand for storm bolter, or does it work like the old CSM combi-bolters, which were just twin-linked bolters?
Brandon White
It's just a twin linked bolter
Lincoln King
Well that's shit. Thanks though.
Nathaniel Perry
I was thinking of a less practical skill, and more of something that can entertain the Emperor should he ask the custodes. I don't think emps would be very interested in discussing basket weaving...
Ryder Cruz
It's a combi bolter in the same way forgebreaker is a thunderhammer
Juan Ortiz
Do we have Emperor model yet?
Colton Garcia
Give it a few years.
Alexander Parker
How much of a dick move is it to ally in POTL Veterans and a Xiphon into my Custodes force? I want a fluffy alliance but I worry I’ll get called a WAAC-fag.
Jose Scott
Depend of how cheesy your custodes are. Potl veterans are good, but not overpowered. Same with the xiphon
Nicholas Price
if anything the fact that they DON'T fight like Astartes is why they utterly crush them. It's just 10,000 master chiefs running around in loose 'squads'.
Liam Walker
>I still feel like there should be no outright immunity to it in the game outside of maybe custodes, since fear-immunity does shit-all against most legions but specifically screws over NL Totally agree. Thralls and cultists should still be capable of running away.
I'm fine with NL getting some of the infiltration/scouting bonuses RG already have. Or boost them through wargear and let them take poison or something. While I'm spitballing, give them a bonus against overwatch or let them reroll charge distances.
Gavin Adams
Bitch please, I paid a fucking heavy price for immunity to fear, so at least give me that
Charles Evans
Beside a talent for murder is a fucking great LA rule, you almost alway have the upper hand in close with assault marines and terminators
Jeremiah Clark
Hopefully NL get some nice legion specific terminators come Angelus.
Camden Rogers
Alpha Legion is complete wankery and where I was ambivalent to them before, since the HH they're dumb garbage. They literally get cucked by some Xenos retards, Alpharius gets murdered like a bitch after failing spectacularly and Abaddon talks smack to Omegon while the latter pisses his pants.
Brandon Cox
Pretty well. The EC didn't get granted the aquila for nothing. IH were really dependable, but not outstanding in warfare.
Matthew Jenkins
>Abaddon talks smack to Omegon while the latter pisses his pants. When the fuck did that happen
Levi Sullivan
Surprise Surprise, the core rules of 7th are garbage and can't support a lot of concepts.
Ryan Sullivan
No idea, maybe after the raven guard retard baby thing where Abaddon warns Omegon not to fuck around when warmaster tells him to do stuff?
Mason Moore
And 8th would have offered something better?
Brandon Clark
18 different variations of mortal wounds and -1 to hit aren't to your liking?
Asher Russell
You mean 8th, where morale penalties translate directly into casualties? Yes, it did but that's not even what was trying to say. 7th core structure is busted and needs a complete overhaul, releasing this stopgap rulebook was a mistake.
Aiden Reed
So do you think they're going to go with clean shaven Dorn or mutton chops Dorn? I kind of hope it's the latter.
Anthony Moore
>15 points per squad for admech >35 points for the whole army for militia It's not that heavy a price. In fact it's pretty bloody cheap.
Carson Evans
>arbitrator >has two barrels >"I find you both... guilty!"
Dylan Clark
>no fucking way to sweep advance for salamanders For a legion supposed to do best at close range they're rather lacking...
Dylan Gutierrez
Alpha Legion.
Jordan Bailey
Okay anons i have 40 marines to paint up. Do i want IW or IF? I want to shoot shit hard.
Jordan Jenkins
IF for sure
Liam Thompson
Fists.
Jordan Allen
Both; play shattered legion.
Owen Gomez
Best of both worlds.
Ethan Stewart
Oh, forgeworld. I love you but how do you keep doing things like this.
Dylan Young
They didn't include anything from the 30k or 7th edition FAQs as far as I have seen from skimming through. Just copy and pasted.
At least the 7th edition faq can still be applied.
Brayden Powell
Given that the red book art is clean shaven, I reckon that's what we can expect.
Camden Perez
Dorn had always been portrayed as shaven. The whole mustache thing is just another meme gone wild.
Lucas Adams
>What Legion colours for Bitchnought? Night Lords or Alpha Legion#
>Also what does Melta damage look like? Drill a few holes in it then use a lighter to melt the plastic around those holes.
Brody Rodriguez
whatever your mates legion is
Elijah Evans
As another user said in an other thread, painting nails.
Juan Rivera
He doesnt piss himself there at Abby, he reminds him that he is a primarch and Ab is a first captain. Its Horus' reaction he is worried about.
Jace Price
What book is this from?
Wyatt Morgan
Question: I'm looking at the Imperial army/militia/cults list and i noticed something;
Collimators are listed as a separate weapon option and do not replace the models lasgun. RAW the model is equipped with both. Does that mean i can chose between heavy 2 30" and the normal lasgun profile?
Related question, Shattered legions can take a lasgun/autorifle in addition to their bolter, what the hell is the point of that?
Jaxson Johnson
I played a guy with Night Lords not long ago with my Alpha Legion and only won by 1 point they can do okay. He absolutely trashed me in melee so i had to kite him and try to nab the objectives. But i think if i had my Primarch like he did i would have trashed him. But sadly no Alpharius model yet :(
William Kelly
>Note that the use of collimators and blast-chargers on lasrifles is optional. >use on lasrifles
Jaxon Turner
Night Lords
Leo Peterson
They are specifically listed as a separate weapon that does not replace the models lasgun.
However: >>Note that the use of collimators and blast-chargers on lasrifles is optional.
Which means you don't have to use it so you can still fire it as a normal lasgun regardless if the collimator is separate or an upgrade..
The real problem is RAW they are separate which means some little prick might claim that the blastcharger only burned out the lasrifle so as a separate weapon the collimator is fine.