I want to play DnD for the dungeon crawl and combat

>I want to play DnD for the dungeon crawl and combat

I seriously cannot understand this mentality. In the age where video games have reached huge heights and Steam has like a hundred Diablo style game, why go to DnD for combat/mechanic purposes?

I'm afraid you lack empathy.

Can you imagine being this much of a faggot?

There's like 1 new games that even approach the level of decent D&D combat (Original Sin 2). That's it.
And there's zero games that offer decent exploration gameplay.

So even if their idea of "for the dungeon crawl and combat" somehow does not involve any roleplaying, it's still something they can only get from /tg.

It also probably means that if they want something other than exploration and combat, they prefer to use other, games for it. Games not specialized only in dungeon crawling and combat.

Theres nothing inherently wrong about that, the problem is when a faggot focuses on the crunch refuses to roleplay at the expense of everyone else

>Not using D&D 4e for combat and OWoD for everything else

D&D (well, pre-WotC D&D) is actually a pretty decent system to run dangerous-exploration style games. Encumbrance, the way hit-points/spells/torches/ammunition are finite resources that tick down the longer you're crawling, XP-For-Gold, spells and thief skills that tend to focus on problem solving. It's actually a really neat set up.
On the other hand, D&D (old and new) is fucking dreadful at social stuff. The only mechanic for anything social is 'roll charisma I guess', with no back-end support for the GM to run political plots. If you want a character-driven game about social relations and maneuvring and exploring characterisation (the stuff people tend to lump under 'roleplaying') there are better systems for it: look at nWoD, Apocalypse World, hell, even Paranoia.

But, if you're playing D&D, you play to it's strengths. Make the game about exploration and problem solving. Fill it with action scenes, puzzles and cool shit like that. Dungeons are good for this because they link together discrete challenges and rewards, and then define how to navigate between them.

Why is it fun? You get to feel smart when you do well. You get to feel like you're discovering cool stuff (seriously, dungeons should be weird and exciting).
Not every game needs to be about FEELINGS, sometimes it's fun to go search some ruins for magic treasure.

>I want to play DnD
There's the problem

I think TTRPG dungeon crawls are dogshit. It's like a lame version of a skirmish wargame where you're almost guaranteed to win each battle because both the balance mechanics and the GM want to avoid a TPK, in fact they usually want to avoid killing any PC at all. In a skirmish wargame your opponent is going all out to beat you and it's far more likely to be a bloody and challenging battle. In a dungeon crawl most individual fights are pushovers and the emphasis moves from force preservation/attrition to long term resource management, which is far less exciting.

>b-b-b-b-but what about high lethality dungeon crawls?
Hardly anyone ever plays them. Rollplayers mostly care about advancing their character mechanically and resent losing this progress due to character death. We all know That Guy who screams about muh CR if things get even a little hot. Similarly, anyone interested in actual roleplaying generally doesn't want to have to start a new character every session.

If I want my combat fix, I'll play a wargame. They do it better. Conversely TTRPGs do narrative and broad problem-solving challenges better. Playing a TTRPG just for the combat is like playing a wargame on easy mode. It's no coincidence that most of the players I know who enjoy dungeon crawls above all else are also sore losers who don't really enjoy a challenge.

This is why Eyebrows is worst lab

>dungeon crawls
>only combat
Those are some pretty shitty dungeon crawls you got there.

That's what a dungeon crawl primarily is. And yes, they are pretty shitty.

You can fill a dungeon with more than combat you know. There's these things called traps and even a dungeon has room for story

>That's what a dungeon crawl primarily is.
>laughingOSR.jpg

You take that back or I'll put safety pin through your skin

Worse.
Of all the hundred of deep and tactical tabletop games.
Why the fuck would you use D&D?

I don’t get it either personally, but that’s okay too.
Some people like different things then you and it’s not your job nor purpose in life to understand it. You can only deal with it like an adult or deal with it like a child and whine because one way or another you are never going to change it.

A shit.

Pretty much the same reason people still play card games or board games with their families or whatever. Part of the fun of the experience is to just hang out and interact with people you like. There's a wall between people in online interaction that isn't there in a board game.

>amount of turn based or even RTwP video games as mechanically interesting as 4E with a group that isn't pants on head retarded:

>It's no coincidence that most of the players I know who enjoy dungeon crawls above all else are also sore losers who don't really enjoy a challenge.

I was once in a pathfinder game with a motherfucker who would put his head down and take a nap if we were not in combat. He basically refused to roleplay at all. And when combat did roll around he would argue with the DM until he got his way. And if something happened like he got a critical fail, got knocked down, failed a save, etc, he would get pissed off and fume about the rest of the day.

I bet he was american too. Fucking burgers. Its sad how steamed you hams get when shit doesnt go right

I can understand being pissed if they failed a save in PF because unless you're being hit with blasting spells/dragon breath, that almost certainly means you're crippled or unable to play the game for the next 20 or so minutes.

wow you really have no clue

>>There's these things called traps
>ok roll perception
>ok roll save/disable trap skill
>take damage or don't
Revolutionary gameplay.

name 3

Maybe they want what you describe, but with friends, sans pvp crap. Video games have strayed from the fun and friendly couch coop’s of yesteryear. Anyway OP, not everyone has to have your identical interests to enjoy something. That’s a fairly uneducated way of thinking.

Because it's fun.

>I want to play DnD for the role-playing, story, and character development
I seriously cannot understand this mentality. In the age where RPGs have reached huge heights and there's like a hundred storytelling style game, why go to DnD for narrative purposes?

>hundred of deep and tactical tabletop games
List please?
Serious question. I've been looking for the perfect dungeon crawler for years, whether boardgame or RPG.

There's Descent, if you're looking for a boardgame.
It's not very far from DnD, but you could check it out.

Kill youself

Torchbearer,Hackmaster, Mythras Classic Fanatsy , Dungeon Crawl Classic

Mostly check for the adventures they have at the OSR trove

>And there's zero games that offer decent exploration gameplay.
Dragon's Dogma.

That was ages ago and not that impressive.
If DD qualifies, I guess even some MMOs do.
It's kind ill likes fire, Master.

Their elves are so ugly it makes me cry

>b-b-b-b-but what about high lethality dungeon crawls?
>Hardly anyone ever plays them.

You don't play high lethality dungeon crawls with D&D, or in games where character creation takes over 10 minutes. Of course you don't come across any lethal dungeon crawls, those are best played using OSR rulesets, not above-2e-D&D

Descent kicks fucking ass. i'd also recommend the WoW board game. its got 2 teams fighting monsters and gaining xp to try and beat the stupidly OP bosses. you can really make awesome character builds that just feel masturbatory to play at high levels when you roll 20 fucking dice and then reroll half of them.

Weren't the 4e era D&D boardgames also pretty good too?

>He didn't go to Bitterblack Isle

Wow, the frogs were right. I guess 3e really did ruin a whole generation.

>Dungeon Crawl Classic

>Dude, Nat 1, Your Wizard Turns Into A Toad LMAO: The RPG

>If you want a character-driven game about social relations and maneuvring and exploring characterisation (the stuff people tend to lump under 'roleplaying') there are better systems for it: look at nWoD, Apocalypse World, hell, even Paranoia.
Care to elaborate? I mostly play retroclones and am on the hunt for mechanics to adapt to spice up social stuff.

Yeah, he literally can't imagine traps being done as anything other than a flimsy mechanics-based stopoff on the railroad that you have to roll a couple of dice to proceed past. Sad, really. Kids these days have never played a good dungeon crawl, I blame Wizards of the Coast. WotC, and videogames, which have been doing a shitty take on dungeon crawls since the 70s.

Can systems like 5e still have creative and fun dungeons meant for the crawling?

1. You can burn a point of Luck to avoid that.
2. DCC magic is great precisely because it emphasizes how wild and unpredictable it is.

Sorry faggots, but dungeon crawls in practice are 90% easy combat encounters with a few traps or physical obstacles. You know it too. Stop making excuses for shit.

They can, but don't.

Thats the point, wizards are glass atomic bombs

I recently run a 0-level dungeon in DCC for my friends who pretty much only play D&D these days. Of the 4.5 hours it took us, combat made up about 45 minutes. Everybody was pleasantly surprised at just how quick and straightforward it was too. You are objectively wrong.

It can be done, with difficulty. OSR systems are the best for this, however.
Torchbearer gets a worthy nod, too, though it's a weird one.

What makes it difficult?

it doesnt cost nearly the same.
pirate the pdf and use an online dice roller, boom, you are done.
vidya need a console/pc and the games. you can pirate the games.
vidya also tend to be a bit restrictive in player freedom in the crawls/combat.

mind, im with you on this one, i hate rollplayers. i just try to see the other side.

You have to invent (or borrow from earlier systems) a bunch of rules because there's really no dungeon crawling system built into 5e, then you have to throw out all the parts that sabotage that dungeon crawling system and related components, and there's a lot of stuff in 5e that's designed to let your players go "fuck your challenge DM, it says on my sheet that once a day I can just say fuck you to this thing". You also have to adjust the level charts because if you just swap in GP for XP (a vital component of the old school dungeon crawling system's play balance) your levelling will be all screwy.
I'm sure there's even more that I'm forgetting. Suffice to say, 5e is not intended for a primarily dungeon crawling game. In 5e the dungeon is meant to be just a background element to the narrative structure, the place you run through to get to the next story point, not the end in itself. (This is a changeover that started with 2e, when they multiplied your dungeon exploration rate by 10x, which is pretty telling.)

okay, here's my 2pence.
Get Monsterhearts. Adapt the strings and social moves to work in osr. Done.

Could be made to work, but there's an easier option: The Drama System (the rules underlying Robin Laws' Hillfolk) is made to be bolted onto other games.

I remember the moment I realized that World of Warcraft wasn't that interesting and I was on a hamster wheel.

It was right after the first expansion came out and somewhere in the Outlands there was a quest to kill fifteen dudes and fifteen monsters. I get to the quest location and find out it's some old fort and the dudes and monsters are fighting each other. I stood there for a while watching this thinking that this fort is just made of wooden palisades. I could've found some pitch, burned a hole in it, let the dudes and monsters kill each other and call it a day. But no, WoW doesn't work that way.

D&D does work that way, however. It's more rewarding when you think of ways to solve things other than "Use Sword on Man". The closest we've gotten in vidya is Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, and there's not that many of that type of game out there.

>I want to play DnD

That's wrong though.

I play D&D for the combat, that's the point... PLAYING. I treat it like an RPG on game consoles or PC, the story gives purpose to the combat. I don't pick a tough as shit charasmatic paladin just to charm drinks out of bartenders and parley, I wanna crack a kobold's skull open with my mace or use my charisma to convince the kobold to crack his skull using my mace.

> I want to eat cookies because they are sweet

I seriously cannot understand this mentality. In the age where candies have reached huge heights and a local candy shop has like a hundred sorts of chocolate, caramel, and cotton candy, why eat cookies for sweetness purposes?

Gloomhaven is probably the best dungeon crawler board game on the market right now.

Is DCC as fun as people make it out to be?

If you like osr yes it is

My players play mostly 5e and they were quite accustomed to not dying easily, then the dcc funnel happened out of 20 characters only 5 survived, and they wanted more

there's no real reason to be playing D&D for the combat, no.
I mean, shit, you can run kingdom death on tabletop simulator. That's WAY better than D&D when it comes to combat mechanics that are fun and meaningful.

That does sound funny. I think that I played Labryinth Lord years ago, and I was impressed as one of the other players outskilled a trap by driving wedges into certain points and meticulously tearing the thing apart, which was cool for me. I thought that combat was uninteresting, but DCC sounds like it does a better job at that.

>zero games that offer decent exploration gameplay
user that has entire swathes of genres from the metroidvania to the grimrock to games literally all about exploration like the long journey home and prospector.

As long as we agree that Jew is best Lab.

If you like lots of tables and wacky nat 20 memes, then maybe.

It doesn't really play like OSR, rather more like a 3e guy's hazy memory of old editions.

>anime poster
>muh video gaymes

I wish Hiromoot would ban /v/ already and scatter the /v/ermin to the winds.