Exalted General - /exg/

I don't restrict Artifacts at chargen, though players have to come up with stories of how they got them. Not necessarily long or detailed stories, but something. In-game, Artifacts tend to be pretty rare. Even most supernatural enemies don't wield the, and they're rarely found by accident.

Don't shy away from given them chances to show off their strengths, though; it's safe to say that if they're all playing Dawns, the group wants to get into some good fights.

They're going to be an overwhelming force on the battlefield, and it's probably unreasonable for most sessions to have enemies that really threaten them in combat, but it's fine to let the players show off. Just keep an eye on everyone and make sure it doesn't get boring - don't hesitate to speed through the most insignificant challenges with a roll or two and some narration, and consider adding environmental challenges and side objectives to the rest to spice them up.

What if they're fighting bandits, but they need one alive for information - and the others would rather kill him than risk letting it slip? Or they're battling a crew of Lintha pirates on a ship, which aren't a huge threat on their own, but the waters are swimming with demon-blooded sharks and the pirates try to knock their opponents in? That sort of thing.

The first ever Exalted battle I played had the PCs in the middle of a long fall to their death, and they had to fight off their attackers before they could even worry about how to survive. Not every battle has to be half that crazy, or even have any tricks to it at all, but in my experience, environmental hazards, non-combat objectives, and even plain old numbers can go a long way towards making an encounter interesting when the PCs are too powerful to challenge directly. Don't hesitate to have opponents take risks and do things the PCs wouldn't to try in order to harm them; a lucky roll on a decisive attack or gambit could injure or impede someone in a way that lasts beyond the battle, especially if poison or traps are involved, even if it leaves the attacker vulnerable. And if it doesn't, the threat might still get the target to burn a good chunk of motes to resist.

Drop 20 Size 5 Battlegroups on the fuckers.

And War Gorillas.

So I'm giving in to temptation and running an Ex3 game when Dragon-Bloods come out. Suggestions as to which bit of Creation to run it in?

One of them has an artifact that's specialized for battlegroup removal.

Realize that Exalted was never about challenging the players through mechanics, and start letting them get away with doing whatever they want.
Then start showing them the consequence of their actions.

I guess that makes sense.

Which artifact is it? I haven't read all of them, but unless it's a warstrider, it's hard to imagine anything trivializing an army of that size.

Then again, my last Exalted game was soon after the full text leaked and lasted like three sessions. I don't have much actual play experience.

20 size 5 battle groups is like more soldiers then people living in Creation

It's, like, 20 000 soldiers, user. That's four Realm legions at full strength, not counting auxiliaries. Creation has quite a few more people than that.

So it is, I was under the impression that size 5 was much bigger.
But in that case I feel a White Reaper with your dad's scythe would take care of it, wouldn't he?
Can you tell I haven't played yet, finding a group has been impossible so far

Custom artifact.

I never entirely agreed with this.

I mean, I think it's good as a general rule. Exalted, especially Solars, will stomp all over challenges that you'd build an entire story around in other games. Overthrowing a mighty tyrant could be an evening's work for a circle, with the consequences of doing so probably being more interesting in the long run than slaughtering his armies and marching into his throne room to toss him out the window. That's part of the appeal of the game. Playing heroes with unlimited potential, who can shake the foundations of the earth right out of character creation.

But to me, another part of Exalted's appeal is having said heroes rise to overcome impossible odds, and there are things in the setting that can challenge them. It definitely shouldn't happen every session, or even every story, but I feel like an Exalted game would be a little empty if the players' actions didn't occasionally draw them into conflict with the Creation's most powerful forces. Taking down a Deathlord or protecting your nation from the Realm shouldn't be easy or quick.

On the other hand, that's just part of the consequences - "So, you've liberated the island from its tyrannical ruler. Now you have the Silver Prince to the west and the Realm to the east, and both hated you enough for existing even before you took out their trade partner. What do you do?"

Is anyone /g/ in here? I'm looking at the Anathema and Anathema:Reincarnated chargen systems, but don't know the first thing about Gradle or Clojure. Does anyone know how to get them to compile?

Well tell us about it

Don't they ever fight DBs as part of a Wyld Hunt?

Is this "Tales from the age of Sorrow" book actually an official published thing? I don't think Steven S. Long has actually read what Exalted is

It was just an extra thing for the kickstarter.

Hopefully the Matt Forebeck novel will be better. It's done, apparently.

To be fair, the book lists one of the examples of a size 5 battle group as "a city-annihilating plague of fae or undead", which sounds like a lot. But the exact number is over 1000, which is... probably far less than the number of people a city can comfortably hold, if possibly still too much for its defending army to handle, depending on the city.

On the other hand, we have that one story of a Dawn who worried his circle so much by fighting alone against an army of one hundred men that they had to go and make him a suit of five-dot artifact armor.

PROTIP: If your Dawn can't comfortably handle a size 3 battle group of soldiers, get a new Dawn. Sometimes I think the writers forgot how their new mass combat system worked.

Actual, historical battles have sometimes involved tends of thousands of men on both sides, though, and I imagine numbers in Creation could get even crazier when things like Fae magic or the hordes of Malfeas get involved. That's a lot of battle groups.

What are the limitations of a minor magical material?
The character I am making his backstory involves his family having easy access to one and I'm not sure what it should be.

Man, I'm glad we're getting new Exalt types instead of those fuckawful subsplats like the Dragon Kings or the mountain folk or any of that other dumb shit. The game is called Exalted, stop shitting it up by introducing ridiculously underpowered subsplats in a game where people already whine about the Exalt power gaps.

All the subsplats are just new types of Exalt now.

Probably just thinking about how the guy wouldn't even think about going against the thousand man army or more, just insurance.
Minor magic material? The only thing I see about that is gems, you mean those?

>But in that case I feel a White Reaper with your dad's scythe would take care of it, wouldn't he?

Action economy. White Reaper is badass against BGs, but they still get 20 actions a turn and each one of those actions can really fuck up even a Dawn's day.

Also - and I can't stress this enough - War Gorilla Battlegroups.

Wouldn't that just end up being 1, maybe 2 Battlegroups? They're supposed to only be split if they've got a huge distance between them

I just read the Abyssals 2e book. Are you telling me the neverborn only exist because they're extremely butthurt about losing the primordial war?

Size 5 is maximum Size, and pg. 206 specifies that armies bigger than Size 5 become multiple BGs

>If appreciably more than a Size 5 battle group worth of combatants are present, they are represented by creating an additional battle group (or groups). 20 extra combatants are a drop in the bucket, but if an extra 300 are present, that’s worth starting up a second Size 3 battle group.

That seems to undermine the point of the battle group abstraction, with such a low cap on what constitutes a size.

Honestly I've been thinking if the size of a battlegroup should be decided by choice of the ST/controller player? The book says "don't split a size 5 into three size 3s, that's gonna add way too much bookkeeping", but it stands to reason you'd keep your army organized in smaller squads that each have it's officer and can go and do it's own maneuvering, instead of one giga blob like "size 5" implies. And them you reach multiple size 5s and that happens anyway.
How's more then 1 BG size5 even going to engage that Dawn? 1000 dudes would blob around him in an instant even if he's killing enough of them to make a clear circle around his ground or fighting and retreating away from people trying to flank.

It does. You should disregard the numbers listed in the book. I go by this.

>Size 0: Individuals
>Size 1: Less than 100
>Size 2: Around 500
>Size 3: Around 1000
>Size 4: Around 5,000
>Size 5: Around 10,000
>There must be enough forces to constitute Size 3 before a new Battle group may be formed.

>So I'm giving in to temptation and running an Ex3 game when Dragon-Bloods come out. Suggestions as to which bit of Creation to run it in?
Set it in Prasad, that big Dragon-Blooded Empire in the southeast. Players can fight off threats to their homeland, wage war to expand their territory, and maybe eventually come into conflict with the Realm.

>bad ideas
I'm planning a coming of age DB game when the book drops, and I've made it clear to my players that it's a game about rebellion, but I'm going to hold a secret lottery among my players and the winner will Exalt as a Solar.

On a scale of "perfectly acceptable" to "heretical" how bad of an idea is this?

>Honestly I've been thinking if the size of a battlegroup should be decided by choice of the ST/controller player?
I think the main concern is that multiple smaller battle groups are generally better than a single big one, so you can't let them be divided up unless it wouldn't make sense otherwise. The system was intentionally designed so that a mob is much weaker than a group of individual combatants and heroes can cut through armies like butter.

So that's why I'd be reluctant to mess too much with how Size works or how groups are divided. It's already a relatively small difference in stats compared to the difference in numbers; a size 5 battle group has about twice the number of troops as a size 4 group, but all it gets out of that is +1 in a few things and an extra health track.

>On a scale of "perfectly acceptable" to "heretical" how bad of an idea is this?
Depends. Do the PCs start as Dragon-Blooded, and the lottery winner gets to become the legendary Double Exalt?

If so, I'd say the answer is "extremely heretical". Do it anyway.

No, they're supposed to Exalt throughout the course of session 1.

It could go either way. Their friend is now Anathema, who they have been told that they need to kill, but he will be a great deal more powerful than them. Alternatively, the Solar could hide their true nature (Larceny Charms) which could provide interesting moments.

That sounds pretty miserable for the DB players.

The worst thing I see happening is that you exalt a Dawn and the rest of the group tries to attack them. I suppose, however, you could have them roll up Solars afterward.

I think it sounds like a fun twist, but it could easily go horribly wrong. It depends on the group and the characters they're playing, I think.

On the plus side, you'd only be one session in if it does explode on you, or the players just don't like the idea. Not too much lost if you have to start over with something else.

What are some good things that you can do with non-Supernal Larceny? For context, the character is a Dawn caste brigand who used to raid caravans before he Exalted. Already got Seasoned Criminal Method, for chargen, but what else is worth taking a look at?

I know I'd be immediately bitter as a DB player. Tough that is pretty meta since as far as the BD knows they're just as powerful if not more then solars, thought the power difference should be quite obvious very quickly.
But like out it, BG sizes are kind of weird in the current state. If sizes were as he posted, I'd say the current handling of BGs would be fine. But in the small scale they are now, I'm just not sure.

Naw, dog, just be open about it. Here's your new premise

>Battle Harem Anime
>Draw lots to determine your archetype.
>Sole Male Dawn Caste. Romantically dense.
>Tsundere
>Wallflower
>Tomboy
>Girl Next Door

A brigand doesn't strike me as the type to have a major Larceny focus, to be honest, if they mostly got by through violence rather than stealth and trickery. There are a couple other Charms, though.

I'd probably pick up Clever Bandit's Rook for shenanigans ("This is my cart, honest, officer! You gotta stop that madman chasing me!"), and maybe Lock-Opening Touch just to make sure you can get to any treasure you set your eyes on. Swift Gambler's Eye and Lightning-Hand Sleight could be fitting too, but they rely on gambling being a thing that's actually played out, which might not be the case (though you could make it happen by challenging someone to a high-stakes game, I suppose).

If you want some more subtlety, Spurious Presence seems like a good choice. Any thief could benefit from the ability to blend in until they're ready to strike (and it would be especially helpful if your Guile is otherwise lacking).

I needed a fifth favoured ability and thought it'd fit his criminal background. Master Plan Meditation looks like it'd help with planning raids, but the prerequisites don't really feel they fit the character concept.

That Charm and its prerequisites are all Essence 2, so you could always build up to it in play if you want it.

Start out with Seasoned Criminal Method and maybe a couple of others to represent his background, and after the game starts, have him gradually hone his wits as he realizes the marks he's after now will sometimes require more brain than muscle (or whatever you'd need to do to grow him into it).

Not the person you're responding to but that sounds like some wonderful trash.

Anyone wants to comment on how strong design without limit is, considering its widely acceptable that you can hoard lots of sxp?
Sublime transferance is kinda necessary but its not a big investement.
It actually isnt that bad in a game that doesn't last for a long time but in a medium to long running campaign its totally OP, considering you can use it once per story on a any single artifact so you can use it multiple times per story on different artifacts/circle mates.

Question for you all. If you use Preys Skin Disguise from a Lunar (w/ Compassionate Mirror Nature) on a target. Can you reacquire an entirely different body from them when they are older? (Basically can you acquire the same body of a target at different ages)

No.

Not that guy, but the one time I got to play a Solar every time I tried to change the status quo it got undone by this dickhead Moonshadow Caste who wanted to burn all my efforts to the ground, so I still have no idea what this "Solars don't get challenged mechanically, they just have to deal with the consequences of their inevitable success" is supposed to feel like.

I twinked that fucker out for politics, too.

Did you tell your players you're running a DB-game, and then you're going to bait-and-switch them when one of them becomes a Solar?

That's a terrible fucking idea. They signed up to play a game you're not actually running, and nobody's going to be happy.

Except for Dragon Kings and the Mountain Folk, who still exist. Or at least the old devs mentioned at one point that they were pretty excited to write them for 3E, who knows what the new devs will do. The Fair Folk, God-Blooded and various spirits also still exist, and aren't Exalted.

That's a bad idea, IMO.

You shouldn't lie OOC. You can lie IC, because NPCs are bitches that always lie to everyone. If you told them they're all going to play a certain archetype, don't use an asspull like that.

It's a decent charm, saving you 10xp that you can spend elsewhere everytime that you use it.

So I'm making a MA Supernal Dawn at the moment. I'm fairly new to Exalted (this is the second character I'm building, and while I have a game lined up for later today (not with this character) I haven't actually gotten the chance to play before). I've got 15 charms to spend, and Single Point Shining Into the Void is a total of nine charms... how bad of an idea is it to overload on Single Point and get the whole tree done by character creation? I'd only have 6 charms left for other things, but it's mighty tempting, especially since I wouldn't have to work to get the capstone later.

Yes, and they won't be wasting playable wordcount this go round too.

Might as well go for it. You're a Dawn, you're supposed to murder things.

Nine is fine, and recommended as the upper amount of charms to pour into your Supernal. Word of warning though, starting at the top of the mountain means that you can't climb any higher, there are no other Martial Arts that share a form weapon with Single Point, so you'e not going to get any more killing power outside of Evocations.

You probabbly know this as well, but Single Point has next to nothing with regards to defence; invest in Dodge.

Well, remember you still will need defensive charms, and mobility charms to play a proper Dawn. Shining point will be pretty much your only means of attack, but that's a non issue. What might be an issue is when you need to deal with something that you can't cut into ribbons, but that's what the circle is for right

>MA Supernal
Just save yourself the hassle and go Melee. Martial Arts suck.

The character's got an artifact reaper daiklave she got from her mentor already, so I figure if I want to advance further with it I'll be focusing on evocations. That doesn't really concern me. The big worry I have at the moment is more related to the fact that it'll make me super focused. But... well, like what was said, dumping a load of charms into your supernal isn't actually a bad idea, particularly when some of them have high essence requirements; I'm a Dawn, being good at fighting is what I do.

Thank you for reminding me to pick up dodge charms; I'd almost forgotten. That sort of thing is fairly important. Maybe some athletics charms too, particularly since there's that one charm that lets you vault over people for a surprise attack.

Out of curiosity, what's your gripe with MA? I'm new so I don't really have the knowledge base to make a judgement, but they look fine to me.

Most of the MAs are fine. is wrong in this matter.

Each style has one gimmick that's needlessly spread across ~10 charms. None of those gimmicks are as strong as the shit Melee can pull at the same Essence levels. A lack of perfect defenses means you inevitably have to invest into Dodge, which you otherwise wouldn't need to (Parry can be used in all situations Dodge would be applicable).

Martial Arts is the budget option for people who don't really want to be fighters, to not force them to divide their experience pool between Melee and shit they actually want to do. But it soaks up 4 merit dots for no real reason as well, so I wouldn't take it even as a non-combatant.

The question is more akin to "what do you want to do"? Usually by the time you reach end game you'd probably be able to buy every single charm in melee or most of the Brawl charms that rely striking/grappling.

Usually I do ramp up things over time though. In my last game the PC's fought against a squad of soldiers that were the basic soldiers in the book. At the end of the game they fought against superhumans who, at minimum, at 10 soak with abilities that which were weaker than Solar skills no one wanted to be on the receiving end on while the more beefier bastards had nearly 16 soak with virtually no defense (I stole X-COM2 abilities). At this point the PC's were well equipped to handle this, having gotten artifacts and charms allowed them to overcome such things. Those that were weaker on the damage size (The Melee Eclipse) instead focused on support (Nightengale Style) and using Melee counterattacks + Defend Other so they could use motes more offensively. Each battle usually had 12+ (heavily homebrewed) enemies, which added to the scope of combat and made the Archery dawn feel giddy when he was able to blow away half of them at the start.

The last boss had nearly 20+ soak, could act twice per turn (only one move action per turn), and whose weakest attack was like 18L/5 damage, and automatically generated 5 sorcerous motes per action while knowing all possible Necromancy spells. It was the embodiment of the Neverborn itself and the PC's were on a clock to defeat it before the area it was in tore itself apart and plunged into the Labyrinth just by existing in the area (Basically hell).

You want a limitus test? See Ahlat and Octivian in the book. By the end of the game a combat focused PC should be able to beat one of them with a damn lot of effort or do-able in a group.

Except Unblockable in much more common then Undodgeable so a dodge focus has advantage on applicability. The "gimmick" of each MA is given to you by the Form and it's the third charm you can learn. How is MA budget if it still costs as many dots as Melee?

Unblockable/undodgeable usually has a "without charms" clause, which means even shit like Dipping Swallow Defense makes it blockable. Even if it doesn't, Melee's Heavenly Guardian Defense still has you covered in all situations. Dodge simply has no uses if you're using a melee weapon.

>How is MA budget if it still costs as many dots as Melee?
I'm talking about Charms.

>Unblockable/undodgeable usually has a "without charms" clause
This is wrong. But as mentioned next, there are still tons of way to get past that.

You still need to spend the motes to parry while dodging is free.
And you can go into Brawl if you want to supplement supernal MA since it's your favored/caste anyway

Or you can just go into Brawl right away. It's better than MAs too.

The sum of Brawl + MA is going to be superior then just brawl or just MA, and it's cheap to develop even after chargen. It's not rocket science.
Speaking of rocket science, is it conceivable to use firedust as solid rocket fuel? Do firewands have recoil?

He's right. From an optimization standpoint, they're bad.

...But shining point is the one MA that keeps up with ability charms easily.

Sorry no, melee does not have the same single hurt burst as Shining Point can dish out. You need to be on crack to say otherwise. Liquid Steel Flow is a good damage adder that lasts much longer than Fire and Stones and really carves into an enemy. There's also the minor matter of *a second fucking initiative track*. Do you know how huge that is from an action economy standpoint? The kind of shit Melee needs to jump through with Flying Silver Dream to get the same?

Or about about Snake style? Anyone who doesn't have an anti-crippling defense immediately drops to the ground where you can stomp on them with impunity, all without sacrificing your initiative to do so. Or how Crane makes it so you can counterattack literally every attack thrown at you all day, which completely and utterly tears the piss out of multi-attackers?

MA is more niche and is overall weaker yes, but it still packs a lot of power.

However, I do agree that you'd need to get a perfect defense (or at least Dodge SSE) and the merit tax sucks.

This whole doo-wop about the choice between a martial art of a standard combat style is part of why I'm looking forward to Lunars and Liminals. Unless something's changed since the last time I checked, the fact that they use attribute based charms will mean that they can mix standard charms alongside martial arts.

I kinda like them more than solars anyways. Solars just feel... kind of bland.

Yeah and you can use it on your or the circles artifacts. So its very likely to be used multiple times per story. I would say its a must buy.

So apperently there's a third circle demon with full stats coming sometime in hundred devil's. Kinda excited to see what that looks likd

Got a link to this? Any word on what type it is, combat or social based?

forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/1069023-ask-the-devs?p=1173127#post1173127
Apparently it'll be a new demon, a soul of the Ebon Dragon, and not related to shadows. That's all the info given, I think.

>Most of the MAs are fine. is wrong in this matter.
>I have no idea what the fuck optimization is or how to make a good character in the slightest
I mean, if you want to hamstring yourself for "flavor" or something, sure, go right ahead. But the only flavor you're gonna be tasting with MA is dirt, because thats what you'll be eating with all of your extra costs out the ass for no real reason heaped on you in this edition. They didn't fix MA, they made it even worse than last edition.

Anyone got homebrewed non-Solar books for 3e that aren't Dragon-Blooded? (since A Clutch of Dragons has me covered already)

user, you are aware that things can be less than optimal without being bad? Optimal or not, Martial Arts can hold their own in Exalted-level combat. Single Point is powerful as fuck, Tiger and Snake are solid, Black Claw is more of a niche thing but it works, and so on.

Aside from Craft Machine and WIZARD what are some other roles for a Twilight caste?
I'm joining a game soon and I'm still not sure what caste I want my character to be.

Bureaucracy: Magistrate, fence, dealer, seller of goods.
Integrity: Monk? What's Integrity for besides social defence anyways?
Investigation: Private Dective, crime scene investigator.
Linguistics: Poet, author, propagandist, scribe.
Lore: Scholar, sage, philosopher, Wyld Shaper, combat support role.
Medicine: Doctor, healer, apothecary.
Occult: Excorist, Demonologist, spirit hunter.

A few of these really mesh well with the character concept that I've developed but beyond that, I dunno.
I didn't think picking a caste would be this hard.

What is your character concept exactly, and how is that reflected in the way you've built the character?

forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/1069023-ask-the-devs/page514
>>Originally posted by Buraikhoi View Post
>>In that case, would you say that HSP works in a similar fashion and does not enhance a melee-based clash?
>Yes, it has to enhance a Parry.
>(I might have answered to the contrary in the past, but I think this is the better answer)
Well that makes this charm significantly weaker!

I'm mucking about with Sorcery for the first time, so I don't know much about it. I know that you need another source of initiative and you can't just roll around battlemaging, but what are some of the other upsides or downsides that aren't that obvious at first?

I'm making a merchant-samurai.
This is my first time playing Exalted and luckily the ST said that he will help me stat out my character, I just need to show up with the basics - Caste, History and general idea of the character I want to play.

I figure the idea is that this character is good at talking to others, merchant-y things like buying and selling junk, and sword skills. I've been told Exalted can be lethal so I should invest in some form of self defense - I'm thinking Martial Arts or Melee.

I just know I can't pick either Night or Zenith for my character's caste.

>What's Integrity for besides social defence anyways?
If memory serves, Integrity has three main trees, roughly:

-Social defense
-Shaping defense
-Meditation

The first is useful to have, but seems a little underwhelming compared to the offensive social abilities in the game. There are a couple of good Charms early on (Spirit-Maintaining Maneuver and Steel Heart Stance make it much easier to resist influence), and later Charms are mostly focused on making sure your Defining intimacies are absolutely, positively inviolable.

The second is... well, shaping defense. Also applies to other things, like fate-warping magic. If I remember right, these Charms are kind of vague and it's hard to judge their effects since the system doesn't have much they apply to yet.

The third is weird and niche, and it's hard to imagine many characters taking it. It has some neat effects, though; two of the Charms together let you get a full night's rest and regain some motes and Willpower in a single action, and the capstone makes you literally invincible as long as you're meditating.

Integrity also has a couple of oddball Charms relating to upholding your Principles, not against social influence, but through things like ignoring the cost of some Charms when a Defining Principle is threatened, or making others automatically aware of it when you uphold it (useful because it leaves them no room for doubt what you believe in, I guess).

I'd imagine Integrity starts being very relevant if you're negotiating with very powerful entities, with or without Psyche charms being used on you.
Do you want to do some mathed out 1v1 chargen Dawns? And or other applicable tests?

if it's a merchant it's already leaning towards eclipse caste