I have a question about an infinite combo and I wanna see if you guys can answer it for me. I was playing some EDH and my opponent plays a Triskelion and a Mikaeus, the Unhallowed to set off an infinite damage combo. He declared lethal damage and said it can't be responded to, even though I responded to him declaring infinite damage with Teferi's Protection. He says you have to respond to the creatures before he does the combo, but I don't see why I can't respond to it with an instant that stops me from taking damage of any kind with an instant after someone declares damage, even if it's infinite. Can someone explain it to me? I don't have a judge, so that's out of the question. It was me and two others, with him going first and me going last in the rotation, if that matters. Thanks. Pic related.
I have a question about an infinite combo and I wanna see if you guys can answer it for me...
I'll give you a favor. Go read stack mechanic by yourself once again, as it seems like both of you play MTG without knowing it's core rule.
Nobody?
The way it works is if he can respond to your instant with more damage at instant speed, you're still dead because the chain resolves backwards.
If you want to not die, play something similar with split second, where it resolves immediately.
Its 3 am, wait until people are awake and try again.
So, even though the instant stops me from taking damage, it still hits with infinite first before my instant even takes effect, unless it had split second?
The instant has to resolve to prevent any damage from happening; if he puts more damaging abilities on the stack above your damage prevention, they resolve before yours does and you take the damage.
The way split second works is that it stops the stack right there and resolves immediately, preventing your opponent from doing what he did.
You can respond when undying triggers, or when he uses Trik's ability. Either of those he has to pass priority in order for them to resolve before it can move on to the next step in the combo.
This is why new players shouldn't play EDH, they have no idea how the rules work and try to play convoluted combos.
read the fucking rules of the game you're playing.
this is the basics
the absolute basic mechanic of MTG
READ
THE
RULES
It's like not knowing how to move chess pieces and calling oneself "chess player"
You could easily stop him, If you knew how stack works.
>my opponent plays a Triskelion and a Mikaeus, the Unhallowed to set off an infinite damage combo
How does that work in your head? What's the sac outlet?
I don't like making fun of people who don't understand all the nicks and nacks of MTG, but damn it, son, this is not freaking rocket science.
Educate yourself in this matter. Google mtg stacking rule
Hello, judge here!
Short answer:
Both you and your opponent are right, depending on when you try to interrupt the combo. But he's sorta more right in the long term.
Long answer:
Lets go through the combo, assuming its just mike and trike.
1. Trike uses it's ability twice, dealing two damage to (presumably) you. These are activated abilities and can be responded to with Teferi's Protection, but since Trike has one counter left, your opponent can move to step two with Teferi's on the stack. Don't use Teferi's here
2. Trike uses it's final counter to deal one damage to itself. You can respond to this with Teferi's and unless they have another way to sacrafice Trike (such as phyrexian altar) this will interrupt the combo.
3. Trike is a 1/1 with one damage marked on it, so it dies. Since it has undying from Mike, undying triggers. You can use Protection here and it will interrupt the combo, unless they have instant speed reanimation.
4. Trike comes back with four counters, one from undying and three from it's own ability. Go back to step one, except now it pings three times before they go to step two.
Teferi's protection gives you pro everything, so you can't be targeted by Trike. This means you won't die this turn, but keep in mind he can just combo off on your next upkeep when Teferi's has worn off. So it's not really going to do much except in very niche spots.
Trisk enters with three counters
Removes two to deal two damage to something
Removes last to have Trisk deal 1 damage to itself.
Now Trisk is a 1/1 with 1 damage on it. Dies.
Undying brings it back
Repeat as nessicary
It's good that thread has a definitive answer, but it's not very educational, you know. This little fucker will soon make another one, like "why did he kill my progenitus with damnation" or shit like this
When the fucker is in the GY, you can respond because he has to pass priority in order to continue doing damage. During that time is when you should respond, however Teferi's protection doesn't help you because as soon as the effect is over, he kills you. Hallowed Moonlight is a great counter to that particular combo for a measly 1W.
It's actually better to shoot trisk for 2(remember that trisk gets +1/+1 from Mikaeus), pass priority, and then remove the last counter, which then kills it as a state based action.
Yea, but you still gotta pass priority to let undying resolve, so only effective against a few tricks
>Removes two to deal two damage to something
>Removes last to have Trisk deal 1 damage to itself
And congrats, you just fucked your own combo up.
Read your own cards next time
SHIZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Nope has to deal 2 damage to self, Trisk is a 1/1 and mikaeus gives +1/+1 so its
Damage Self -> Damage self -> Shoot a player
and im retarded i didnt see who you were messaging FLAME ME DADDY
You can respond to the Triskelion's last or second last counter removal and it works well, unless the guy has alternate sac outlets. If he does, you must respond to the Undying trigger.
MtG has this thing called "priority", which means that you just can't shout "I go infinite" and thing being so.
From top of my head, only infinite you can't respond to is Grand Architect and Pili-Pala.
Besides, Trike comes into play with 4 counters after Undying becomes online
You need to shoot Trike with itself twice because of the +1/+1 from Mikaeus.
Split Second doesn't actually stop things from going on the stack; it stops activated abilities and spells, but it doesn't stop triggered abilities. Top was totally the right ban to nerf Miracles, not Counterbalance./sacrasm
OP, here's how his combo works: He uses Triskelion to shoot you for 1 and itself for 2 (killing it); on its own, the order in which he does this doesn't really matter. Then, Mikaeus returns Triskelion to the field with four +1/+1 counters on it. He proceeds to shoot you for 2 and Triskelion for 2 (again, in a vacuum, order doesn't matter). Triskelion returns and the opponent can continue doing this unless you stop him.
The important thing is in when you choose to cast Teferi's Protection. Every time the opponent uses Triskelion's abilities, he can choose to pass you priority, giving you a window (which actually doesn't matter here; see below), but he has to pass priority when he triggers Undying because Triskelion doesn't do anything until it comes back to the field. If you cast Teferi's in response to one of his Triskelion abilities, it doesn't really do anything, because the opponent can respond by shooting Triskelion, bringing it back, and repeating as above. All the Trike activations thenceforth go on the stack on top of Teferi's Protection, meaning that the spell won't ever resolve unless you pull further shenanigans. If, however, you cast it in response to the Undying trigger's going on the stack, your opponent can't do anything until your next upkeep, which saves you until then, when he'll just do it all again.