/osr/ - Old School Renaissance

Am not, sorry. I've actually been giving /osrg/ threads a wide berth for some weeks.

I've been listing to youtube.com/watch?v=IvNtaCFe_KE etc.

You fuck off, 2e is OSR. You're able to high-power story and metaplot in literally any game, trying to tack on buzzwords does not an argument make.

...

>Why not use An Echo, Resounding? It's also by Kevin Crawford, and requires no hacking.

I've skimmed it and it doesn't look like it handles large scale very well, like a world map.

?

It uses the same core system as all TSR D&D and is mostly the same as 1st edition AD&D. Anybody looking for a good, concrete delineation of what old school is (rather than "muh feels") is going to include 2e. And I say this as somebody who isn't even a big fan of 2e.

What's missing from For Gold & Glory besides psionics?

>High power story and metaplot based bullshit is not OSR
Dragonlance started under Gary's watch.

How do An Echo Resounding and AD&D 2e mesh?

>For Gold & Glory
What are the differences between FG&G and straight 2e?

>dungeon synth?

Sauce on that image?

lmgtfy.com/?q=reverse image
Be careful not to search the thumbnail.

Kate Beaton
harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=285
Historical stuff, silly stuff, Canadian stuff, and some family stuff (mostly sketch comics) that will make you cry.

That's Kate Beaton, isn't it? Hark a Vagrant!

Wow, I'm surprised. That worked so much better than the last few times I tried searching for a webcomic based on an image. Google's really got it together lately, huh?

Thanks, gonna archive dive now.

>Do you listen to dungeon synth?
No, I don't like this kind of "music"

2e is OSR
DCC isn't OSR
GLOG isn't OSR either

>What's missing from For Gold & Glory besides psionics?
Good art

>DCC isn't OSR
its fun though

2e is funnier though

>GLOG is OSR
>DCC is OSR
>LotFP is OSR
>OSRIC is OSR
>D&D is OSR

If that's how you're defining OSR, by not being "new-school" in playstyle, then you'll have to let in DCC, ItO, the GLoG, and all those other things you hate (except DW, fuck DW).

It's... OSR adjacent, and close enough not to start an argument on, especially since it's player base is essentially identical to OSR.

Regardless, there are some OSR listed items, that really aren't, mostly rules-lite systems that don't use D20s, don't use the stat lines, et cetera

t. pleb
That public domain art is great.

False OSR Enthusaist, get ye gone.

>It's... OSR adjacent
Just like Ryuutama, The Fantasy Trip, Runequest and 5e

And Exalted (domain management, highly lethal gameplay that makes fights unadvisable)

Good lord, do we have to start a fight about what we get to call OSR-Adjacent now? Let's not, please. Though, so long as your discussion of something is related to OSR games or gameplay, discuss it here, but go easy when it's not strictly OSR by system.

No, just no.

>No, just no.
I was funposting but honestly, Creation gets really gritty and dangerous once you go into heroic mortal territory, and there's a lot of territory to carve out a campaign. I'd like to see an OSR Scavenger Realms game sometime.

DCC belongs in the "OSR-likes (Story Games and Other)" folder of the trove.

I love the modules but you absolutely have to convert everything from scratch.

>Good lord, do we have to start a fight about what we get to call OSR-Adjacent now? Let's not, please. Though, so long as your discussion of something is related to OSR games or gameplay, discuss it here, but go easy when it's not strictly OSR by system.
No, because "osr adjacent" is a meaningless term

It's not meaningless, it's just a term for games that are aimed at OSR themes and style, but not mechanically compatible.
A system is OSR adjacent if you play it out of the box according to its intended style and end up with something that feels like an old school D&D crawl.

Senatus consultum ultimum de 2e:
While the Old School properly ends at Dragonlance, it cannot be denied that 2e has considerable mechanical similarity to AD&D. The real final reason why there's no reason ever to meme 2e in /osrg/ is that there's literally nothing that 2e does better than 1e, especially in an OSR context. When 2e is the same as 1e, there's no reason to specify 2e, and when it's different is on the occasions when it's being not-OSR.

Thus the Senate decrees for the sake of the protection of the public good that 2e never be mentioned in /osrg/ again, on pain of being called a troll and a shitposter. Let the poster take care that the thread suffers no harm!

>there's literally nothing that 2e does better than 1e, especially in an OSR context
Psionics

False OSR Enthusiast, get ye gone.

>The real final reason why there's no reason ever to meme 2e in /osrg/ is that there's literally nothing that 2e does better than 1e
It uses THAC0, which is nice. It doesn't use alignment languages or give each weapon a different attack bonus vs. each different AC. It's generally more presentable and professional in terms of presentation. If you had to play an edition as-is, 2e is clearly superior to 1e.

>It doesn't use alignment languages

I wouldn't count that a plus, it's part of the whole move away from alignments as cosmic forces you serve, towards alignments as things your characters do to start nerd arguments.

Alignment languages are retarded.

>Sauron was retarded for creating the Black Speech of Mordor

No U.

That's not alignment language though. If it were, Gandalf couldn't have read it.
>here's a language that only people on your cosmic team can understand
>but if you ever use it they'll think you're retarded and avoid you

Muh 3 saves!

You're not supposed to use it in front of others. Use in private between aligned characters is fine.

I dislike the way people interpret alignment languages.

I think alignment languages are cool if done more of a subtle or unspoken sort of thing. Like a true neutral druid can just nod his head respectfully at a wolf, and the wolf will turn around and leave do the unspoken respect of nature. Or if an angel appears to a righteous man, he's the only one not blinded by it and he can look it in the face and request it to do something. It's not that the language itself is magical, it's just that the angle won't communicate with anyone who isn't righteous, despite easily understanding all lesser "earthly" languages.

If alignment languages were done like this I think they'd be cool, but since they're actual literal languages it's kind of whatever. Maybe in a more folklore inspired setting. Wasn't there a game with cool alignment-ish languages where thieves could talk to birds and undead had a language? I remember thinking that one was alright since it was less about alignment itself and more about a folklore-esque game.

So when I try to run a DCC adventure in B/X and it says to make the player do a DC 15 Will Save, or a DC 30 Luck Check, what am I supposed to do, except toss it in the not-OSR pile and tell you to piss off?

>here's a language that only people on your cosmic team can understand
>but if you ever use it they'll think you're retarded and avoid you
And if you ever switch teams, you'll suddenly forget your old language and instantly learn a new one!

Also, alignment languages really don't make sense with the way the game is presented, especially when you're using AD&D's two-axis alignment. There aren't 9 great armies or whatever vying fro supremacy of the land.

>DCC isn't OSR
Can this meme fucking die already? Nobody even mentioned DCC once prior to this post. Literally no one believes DCC isn't OSR except a small vocal minority in this general.

>2e isn't OSR
Can this meme fucking die already? Literally no one believes 2e isn't OSR except a small vocal minority in this general.

It's definitely retarded in the sense of "this looks really silly when I imagine the scene like a movie in my head". But I chalk it up to a remnant of the days when characters were more like gamepieces than literary persona, and you just gave them your own name spelled backwards (if they lived past level 2).

Dropping them, or adopting languages that make sense in-game (like black speech, celestial, thieves cant, etc) doesn't change the substance of the game.

>And if you ever switch teams, you'll suddenly forget your old language and instantly learn a new one!

That's because they're not languages you learn from books, they're gifts from cosmic powers and can be revoked like any such gift.

>If you had to play an edition as-is, 2e is clearly superior to 1e
This

1e is garbage fire

See It's not OSR, it's retro-gaming 3e. Which is fine, but quit claiming compatibility that doesn't exist, it's misleading to newbies.

Beware of 2e's rules changes, though. Like dungeon exploration being 10x as fast, and so forth..

I think you meant to quote

>Like dungeon exploration being 10x as fast
I unironically like this change

So I did! Oops.

It's fine if you're not interested in a dungeon crawl, but if you want to run old school dungeons they'll be hilariously shallow with it.
10x the depth into the dungeon in a session; 10x the amount of treasure you can reach in a delve; 1/10th the wandering monsters for any given objective.
If you're doing story-focused stuff where it's all about getting to the end boss to open up the next story branch, it's great.

Careful. Mind swap is pathfinder spell d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/mind-swap/

So...regardless of your stance on DCC, are there any good guides to converting DCC to other systems? Or is it just like a lossy information storage medium, easy to put it, nigh impossible to take out?

Oh edition wars.

Stop taking the bait, /osr/. It's silly. You're silly.

Don't be silly user. One of the joys of OSR games is that, if a spell's name describes the spell's effects, there's no need to give full rules. "Death Laser", "Mind Swap", "Summon Goats" etc.

It's like that silly spell list we wrote up a while back. No need for rules; the name covers it.

>So when I try to run a DCC adventure in B/X and it says to make the player do a DC 15 Will Save [...] what am I supposed to do?
I have no idea but that's because DCC steals 3e's one good idea and has a saving throw system that actually makes sense, rather than the nonsense gibberish OD&D used.

Obviously the real answer is to replace it with whichever original saving throw you'd use to represent the effect being described, which you could probably do on the fly. Any references to luck just replace with random chance at an appropriate probability, which you could also probably do on the fly. Other than that, monster stats are pretty much cross-compatible if you just take 10 seconds to think about how their special abilities would work in your 'actual OSR' system of choice, and PCs are expected to have a similar amount of health to OD&D characters so you shouldn't have to adjust damage from traps and the like. You can make a case for the game itself not being OSR (honestly I don't really care one way or another) but the modules are highly OSR compatible and have a very OSR feel to them.

How large of a scale map would An Echo Resounding work with? I want something world map scale.

> I want something world map scale.
But... why?

Anyway, AER should work on the province/small country/region level, but anything above that probably requires you to write your own ideas.

save vs expanding the definition of OSR

>DCC steals 3e's one good idea and has a saving throw system that actually makes sense, rather than the nonsense gibberish OD&D used
TSR era saves make total sense, and this is coming from a 20 years old guy

THAC0 though...

Failed, 4E and Anima are now OSR.

Is GURPS osr?

I don't want isolated pockets of interactions. Feels too fake. There's a region next o another, but only things interact within regions. I don't like that.

I want inter-regional interactions.

>a saving throw system that actually makes sense

"It makes sense" is not a valid game design metric. 3e's FRW saves stink.

then why can no one agree on what save you'd use to, lets say, dodge some falling boulders?

Yes, and so is BRP, and Fate, and fucking Wushu. Why not? It's all OSR and OSR-adjacent!

i merely present the argument that a mechanic that makes sense is better than one that does not

Leftmost relevant save

I need something to write about. Any suggestions for tables, spells, monsters, etc?

>dodge some falling boulders
This one is easy: Breath Weapon

Save versus Death, duh.

none of them are relevant though

Encounters along the Andes during the Spanish colonial period.

What about tic-tac-toe?

Have you actually played a OSR game? You understand that despite the names, the saves themselves aren't arbitrary, right?

A mechanic should be judged on its gameplay effects, and FRW is just plain bad on that account. Choosing mechanics based on "it makes sense" is for people who want bad games.

Okay, no, that's definitely storygaming bullshit. After all, the ending is predetermined.

Same as B52:
>Ceiling Block falls: Save vs. Turn to Stone or take 1d10 points of damage

What if you used the categories from FRW but adapted the 'roll over a number given by your class' aspect of TSR saves

>Ceiling Block falls: Save vs. Turn to Stone
heh

There is a supplement like that for BFRPG if memory serves

>I want inter-regional interactions.
And these will take place at a scale the players can appreciate, and it won't just be GM wankery?

You may want to move to a higher and more abstracted system, like this: coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/05/osr-medieval-stalemate-simulator-or-six.html

But adapt it from warfare to include all the interactions you wish to cover.

Treasures in the Wizard Archchancellor's Office

It's a judgement call. You know what those are, right?
How dangerous are your boulders? If they're instadeath, take the first save, because that's the instadeath save. If it's just likely to cripple him, take the stone one because that's the one for "your character is changed against your will". If they're no big deal take one of the saves on the right, dragon breath or spells.
.

1d100 elf waifus

This, but just 1d100 waifus, not just elves

That's just the Monster Manual if you're brave enough.

>Implying I'm not brave enough

FRW:
>can easily tell which save to use in any given situation
>adjustable difficulty
>still balanced by class and level rather than ability score (as 5e)

TSR saves:
>extremely good if you want to know what to roll if you want to save against poisons and death rays, magic wands (different from regular magic, obviously), being turned to stone, dragon breath, or non-wand-based forms of magic
>also good if you enjoy thinking or arguing about which of the above any given mechanical trap or special ability most resembles
>not so good if you want any particular effect to be more or less difficult to resist than any other

3e had a lot of bad ideas but FRW was not one of them

Ok, then you write it. Wikipedia has the MM entries in a nice table you can export. Randomize, take 100, add names (generated online too?) and add quirks. Done.

57. Green Dragon. Cecilia. Likes to make watercolour paintings.