Jumpchain CYOA Thread #1986: Phucked Up Edition

>The main guy and his friend were full "fuck this shit" mode and trying to drive out out town. All of a sudden they get into a wreck, crashing into a tree. The road just fucking ended at a tree, main road out of town just ending in the woods now because she said so. Basically, for someone who was already deathly afraid of the dark and lost more than a few teeth in semi-violent ways, this bitch horrified me.
I don't think that's reality warping, I think that's just driving too fast in the dark, and missing a turn.

I wanted to study one and translate it into harry potter magic. Try and minimize the downsides you know?

>Are reality marbles magic?
Absolutely.
>Can you study and reproduce one with magic replication and study perks?
This part is where it gets iffy - Reality marbles represent an extreme deviation from the World. Emiya's UBW, for example, came about due to discarding everything about himself while in the midst of a cursed fire, being "saved" afterwards, being implanted with Avalon (which itself is a separation of the World from another), and being an Incarnation of "Sword". Put simply, Emiya is as mentally inhuman as Arcueid or one of the Dead Apostle Ancestors.
In theory, any magus could produce a Reality Marble - Odds are that their Reality Marble would be exactly the same as the World to begin with, and thus indistinguishable from what was already there - To produce something else would require that mental and spiritual difference seen in elementals, demons, spirits and distorted humans. To copy an existing Reality Marble would require shifting your entire nature to match the owner - You would have to essentially be "Emiya Shirou" to learn Unlimited Blade Works.
As a jumper, it would be much easier on your mind and soul to bribe your benefactor (ie. Buy the perk) to get a Reality Marble.

Proposed change to Soon I Will Be Invincible powers:

Super Intelligence remains largely as it is, but with added emphasis on constructing the more normal devices - effectively rolling most of the stuff the 100-400PP tiers of the old Craft power had into it.
Security drones with lasers, automated factories, stealth jets, battle blimps, etc. get distributed through the various Super Intelligence levels by complexity.

Craft becomes Super Science, and at all levels deals strictly with comics-style doesn't-work-in-the-real-world tech. Each tier increases the scale and complexity of the super-tech.

100PP tier for portable, "simple" creations, with short lived effects - rayguns, time stop grenades, micro-fusion batteries, a force field belt that'll hold for a couple of seconds.
200PP tier for human-scale, longer-lasting and more complex creations - androids, zeta-powered cyborgs, bio-brain robots, sentient AIs, a basement fusion reactor the feds might come and check out.
400PP tier for vehicle to huge building scale. Giant zeta-powered deathbots, cars that go back in time, massive fusion reactors you can't scan from orbit, force fields that could shield a whole island.
600PP tier remains at world-shaking levels.

Does this seem more reasonable?

>really good sun screen
This reminds me of a manga or anime that had this. Something about a loli Tepes buying a chunk of land for a vampire/werewolf district. I vaguely remember reading a chapter or two before work demanded more attention.

Unless you're Oda Nobunaga who literally over a year or so of her life managed to hammer out a Reality Marble based on her innovation of Japan as a nation. She did this with no foreknowledge of magic, just kinda did it somehow.

I mean, that's somewhat less bullshit than Nero creating a Reality Marble that...basically gives her plot armor (also spontaneous buildings), out of sheer delusion for her own musical talent.

Reality Marble users are all batty.

Was it a reality marble in life, or was it something derived from "his" legend that was functionally equivalent for the Throne?

Well the problem I am having is that I dont really want to have a marble in the same sense that emiya has a marble, I would like to study and disswct one so that I could copy various portions of its effects as spells. For instance if I study UBW I would like to break it down to create a spell for copy and create swords.

>Does this seem more reasonable?
Yes.

I feel that you should probably look into pricing some powers at different tiers. This science one and the speed power have incredible effects compared to say, the strength power at the same levels. There's definitely an imbalance where some powers seem a lot more attractive because of being stronger and doing more things.

Sorry, this isn't clear. I mean you should price powers differently than having them all follow the same 1-2-4-6 tier scheme. Whether by making some more expensive or others less.

That's probably not going to work? You'd probably have better luck, if at all, just directly studying their soul.

Emiya's Projection is, theoretically, a derivation of Gradation Air - It's already a (useless) branch of magecraft. Emiya's advantage comes from his Reality Marble recording everything about swords, which allows him to use the (very real) copies in his internal world as a blueprint to bring forth. His version of Gradation Air makes use of the full history of the weapon to make a nearly perfect copy, but without UBW itself there would be no way for someone else to "remember" the full details of the weapons.

Nobu literally calls herself a demon lord, she's a tremendous chuuni that revels in her reputation as evil incarnate. There's no way she's a normal person.

You should probably study the Moon Cell if you want to make RM without having them be related to you as a person.

I thought we established that crazy people cannot be evil?

What characters would make great companions and would be easy to recruit? Extra points if they are good waifus as well like pic related

"Evil" is subjective. In this case the subject herself says she's evil.

Isnt the moon cell technology too? Or is it a massive mystic code?

I feel like having chaldea tech should let you work something out too.

Crazy alien reality magitech

>translate it into harry potter magic
RMs are hilariously out of Harry Potter magic's ballpark.
It's not that they are too powerful, but HP magic has NOTHING even remotely like it. The absolute closest you get is Transfiguration or Conjuration, and those are extremely different from outright rewriting the laws of reality within a given area.

>Isnt the moon cell technology too? Or is it a massive mystic code?
Yes.
No, seriously. It's a technological mystic code.

>Not having multiple mind-trains, souls and personalities and have them handling the Reality Marbles

Well I'd also say that HP doesn't really have anything near the average level of power shown by RMs either.

And probably most servants

It's more than a derivation of Gradation Air. Just like his reinforcement what he creates or modifies with his reality marble stays around. Things created with Gradation Air vanish after they run out of energy, and reinforcement fades, however Emiya's reality marble allows him to make them permanent unless removed. It was one of the big hints that what he was doing was unusual, and not just normal magecraft.

This is true.

Yep, the burning of Mt. Hiei finished it. Then 'his' innovation became a weapon that distorted Mystery and Divinity. This is kinda like formalcraft, ritual magic, 'he' did something so much that Gaea recognized it as something atypical of herself to the point 'his' inner world became a weapon to use against Gods and Demons. To Oda it was just another tool in 'his' arsenal against the regime of old. Nobunaga of Nasu-verse is a terrifying individual.

If that were true then there would be dozens of human Reality Marble users. Demon King, the skill she got from being Chunni as fugg, only distorts her abilities and appearance, because it is different from Innocent Monster.

Actually this raises an interesting question.
If you go to Exalted:Infernals and get a Soul-Hierarchy, would your Third Circles have their own Reality Marbles?
Could you use their RMs?

Eh, at the end of the day Shirou's RM is basically Copy+Paste of any weapon he sees, particularly swords. It's just fucking weird, not super powerful. It only seems powerful because he met Gilgamesh/His Future Self and saw a LOT of super powerful swords.

Does anyone have an ETA on a Abyssal Exalts jump?

All the previous talk about Fran gave me an idea for a perfect Moonshadow Caste.

>Emiya's reality marble allows him to make them permanent unless removed. It was one of the big hints that what he was doing was unusual, and not just normal magecraft.
This is why I've always argued that Shirou accidentally touched the barest fringes of the 1st True Magic. Nowhere near the real thing, but the fringes.

People often forget that just being crazy doesn't make an RM. You need the potential for it too. There are fucking loads of people that have mindsets that seriously differ from the human norm. You could make a pretty easy argument that most magi that go all in on the magus philosophy should count.

Just because someone has the potential to develop a RM doesn't mean they ever will. Most people crazy enough to manage it probably wouldn't even know to try.

The claimant hasn't been seen in a year or so, it doesn't look like it's coming.

I'd say that copy pasting extremely powerful swords is pretty powerful. He's instantly making stuff that often has entire legends focused around just getting the weapons in old myths.

I also did say the average showing. Iskandar, the various Dead Apostle RMs, some of the other Servants. They're all really powerful effects.

Nah, like the entire road was gone and replaced with forest. There was no turn. Then she comes out of the dark, snatches up the friend guy and flies him up into the dark canopy before dropping him, letting him die from the fall on top of protagonist man's car.

>It's more than a derivation of Gradation Air.
Things inside his Reality Marble are real, they're not projections - This part is where his reality marble borders on a Sorcery.
Projection is how he brings them from his inner World into Gaia's World - That's the part that is theoretically a derivation of Gradation Air. Theoretically because his method is dependent upon the RM itself in the first place to provide the blueprint for reproduction, so even if he did teach it, nobody else would have the history of the item to reproduce in the first place (unless they carve it into their family crest... Now there's an idea for a family pursuing the First Magic.)

I'd argue that Iskander's RM isn't an actual RM. It's just the best way the Grail could codify his Noble Phantasm, because the thing most associated with Iskander is his army.

And I'd say they are very simple, and arguably weak, effects. Just taken to a "logical" extreme.

Why wouldn't they? They are individuals (in a way), and can spawn their own subsouls. Although I think that you would need to pass the ability to create one first.

I think you read way too much into the line about Shiro approaching true magic dude.

Now here's an interesting question.

Many Third Circles are a Location as well as a "normal" being, often times these Locations operate off of laws that are different from normal reality.
Would a Third Circle's Reality Marble be summoning their "true" body into the real world?

I think it's mainly classed as a RM (by the Grail) because it's considered an outgrowth of his conquest philosophy. There's lots of things that aren't quite RMs even though they do similar things, like Semiramis' hanging gardens.

Then again, the suckier Solomon's big golem NP's paradise growth ability is called an RM too.

It's explicitly an actual Reality Marble. It's just got a weird origin.

That also makes no sense. A powerful effect is a powerful effect. That's like saying a nuclear bomb is just a firecracker taken to the 'logical' extreme. No, it's not, it works on a far higher scale and has a lot of pretty strong side effects too.

Nero's power isn't just summoning familiars. It's being a shapeshifting monster composed of several hundred creatures, including several innately very powerful things, and being near impossible to kill and being able to use all those familiars in crazy combinations or to turn into much stronger hybrids.

Shiro isn't just making some swords. He's making some swords that can vaporise half a mountain or kill immortals despite them being immortal or always hit no matter what. And doing it by the dozens or hundreds at each moment.

What are some good perks to avoid the negative penalty of bane weapons? There are so many anti-dragon weapons so I am hoping to find out how to negate their effects.

I feel like the term "Reality Marble" gets tossed around too much after FSN. In FSN they outright say a hilariously low number of Humans have been recorded as having one, like less than 10 in all of recorded history.

The swords in UBW are real. This is as much a reflection of the First Magic as Tsubame Gaeshi or the Jeweled Sword are of the Second.

Can we learn magic beyond our Super Powers?

My understanding is that an RM is, all things being equal and before accounting for things like how much mana you've pumped into you or whether or not the RM is part of your body and you are an eldritch ancient vampire, more impermanent than a 3CD's body. Ligier doesn't act like a sun because he believes himself to be a sun, he acts like a sun because that's his designated role in the Malfean soul hierarchy.

So barring any weird Charm/metaphysics interactions, I would assume the RM would be just sort of draped over/around the 3CD because their location-self exists independant of their personal belief system.

If anything, it would be more likely for the RM to be projected through a 2CD because 2CDs express selfhood traits of their 3CDs.

Yeah, because RMs are a Demon thing. It's something humans aren't really supposed to be able to do, but a few of them figured out methods to do so anyway.

You know we don't actually know what the First is right?

If anyone is going to have one though, it's probably going to be the kind of character that becomes a Servant. These are the very best and worst of humanity after all. They're the most likely to have Reality Marbles.

>You know we don't actually know what the First is right?
The only one we don't know anything about is the Fourth, of which we only know "it exists."

Yet another Nasu retcon I guess, any day now he'll turn around and go "Nah, I was just talking about the modern era familigia. The Age of the Gods? Oh yeah, everyone and their dog could do it if they just believed in their swords hard enough!"

I'm pretty sure it's canon already, when summoned into Shirou's body Muramasa was somehow able to manipulate /every fabricated sword in the UBW/ in order to project the storm god Susanoo's sword, and at the cost of his life. Which isn't a thing UBW is supposed to be capable of normally.

desu I don't think RM even existed in the Age of Gods, magecraft like that is supposedly incompatible with the magic of earlier times, due to the laws of physics changing or something.

If that were even true, which I admittedly doubt, it would make even less sense that Iskander as a RM.
He was dead long before the Age of the Gods was.

Modern magecraft is based on "overwriting" the world with a phenomena. Divine Words is based on "convincing the world" to produce a phenomena. A Reality Marble is firmly in the overwrite side of the divide.

That's pretty generous to what we know of the First which is basically nothing. You're mostly applying your own fanon here.

Personally I haven't read anywhere where you have to have a particular potential for Reality Marbles, as far as I've read it's an ability to have your own inner world circumvent the World's in an area and everyone has an inner world it's just making it trade places that's the hard part. In most cases it's like said, even if they got their Inner World and the World to switch they wouldn't result in much more than the world giving them some plot armor, because humans are usually at least slightly self-centered.

You could argue many things about Magus culture, as it is, true. I mean it is being pioneered by a demon of mercy, even if no one remembers that part and lord only knows what that does to them.

Again I know of no real 'potential' needed. It's just most folks can't make it work out for reasons, it is a very complex set up to begin with. It has little to do with ones sanity by the way, you don't have to be insane to have a Reality Marble, crazy people just shortcut into being able to make them easier.

Twenty-six Reality Marble's are know to us, the readers/watchers, none of those are the 10 known to Magi at large, strangely enough.

>Twenty-six Reality Marble's are know to us, the readers/watchers, none of those are the 10 known to Magi at large, strangely enough.
Does that count non-human RMs? Because that 10 count did specify humans.
Not even Dead Apostles count.

Magi don't seem to be very good at their jobs, are they?

Well something good to keep in mind that Servants aren't all representative of who they were in life. Just because a Servant has a Reality Marble doesn't mean the hero did when they were alive.

We know that the practice of the First was as follows.

The First Magic
Name: Unknown
Domain: It is one of the oldest Magics, but details about it are mostly unknown. Some magi of privileged rank know what it involves as common knowledge. Though the exact domain of the First Magic is uncertain, it is related to the generation of Ether clumps, which have been called "materialized nothing." This may be related to the concept of Denial of Nothingness, a phenomenon stated by Bazett Fraga McRemitz to lie within the domain of Magic.

Guys. Guys. Guys.
I just had the weirdest though.

How similar are Reality Marbles to a Palace/Dungeon from the Persona series? Areas that are twisted and distorted from normal Reality, based on your own different view of reality from the "norm".

It's not explicitly stated but it's pretty much the only thing that explains why many canon characters don't have reality marbles. There's a lot of people in the nasuverse who's mentalities are severely at odds with everyone else and who should have that reality marble bullshit. Especially the many insane and monstrous Caster servants.

I counted only the Human, or previously human in the case of Oda Nobunaga and EMIYA/Shiro, there are about nine or ten more examples if we take in the non-human examples too.

No, no they do not.

Which is why I said I think Iskander's RM is just the best method the grail had of reflecting his legend. As opposed to being a RM he actually had.

Fair enough.

Hp magic has been shown to do some amazingly powerful shit. Rebuilding an entire city in less than a day for instance.

But barring that I give you rms are powerful, and probably out of what you could normally expect to find from most hp wizards. However thats why I want to use perks to translate my spells to hp magic, it has no mana costs.

Erm, bit weird saying it right back to you but I've also never really heard about this stuff on it being something you purposefully set up and that it's very hard to. That doesn't seem to match...well, any RM I can think of. Almost all of them not made by the Moon cell came about entirely by accident and sanity has always been said to be one of the big components of it.

I don't think Iskandar had a RM in life, it's just a Servant ability.

So you have maybes and that it's related to something. That's it. Yet you keep making claims like it's certain.

What I find amusing is that the premise of the Reality Marble is functionally equivalent to the "personal reality" of Espers/Gemstones in the Index/Railgun world. The Association would have a field day if they ever got ahold of the Power Curriculum from there.

Basically, the 3 major differences an RM has are 1. they don't necessarily exist to make you feel horrible about yourself, although it can happen sometimes depending on what you believe in the most 2. you need magic to keep sustaining an RM and 3. the ability you get from an RM can warp other aspects of it, in certain situations. Like having lots of mana.

I addressed the power thing
>It's not that they are too powerful
They are just out of left field, and nothing in HP does anything like that. HP magic is powerful in its' own right, but it doesn't overwrite the local laws of reality.

That's what I've been arguing.

1.Not all Palaces do that, it depends on the person's distorted cognition
2.To Be Fair, a Palace exists in the "collective unconscious", much like RMs usually exist within their owner. It would, in theory, take magic to project it onto the real world.
3.Have you seen what the Shadow that runs a Palace can turn into?

They're like much, much smaller scale versions of the Magic Gods' abilities, really. Espers were an effort by Crowley to overwrite the world with science, whereas RMs are close to Sorcery. And

Well, unless we're talking about the Moon Cell which Crowley would probably LOVE everything about.

It has never rebuilt an entire city in less than a day. It rebuilt parts of one part of a city in less than a day. And that was with an unknown but significantly large number of wizards working at the same time.

>Are reality marbles magic?

Yes, or at least the kind mostly normal life forms use. Beyond that it gets complicated.

Although their less spells and more magic systems.

>Can you study and reproduce one with magic replication and study perks?

That probably depends on if the perk requires the potential to learn the spell naturally, or if it's a general 'you can copy spells' thing. Although a bigger issue would be finding users to copy.

I'm not sure if Harry Potter would be a good option. It already has a few spells that require specific thought patterns to work. So translating reality marbles to that system might keep that downside. Meanwhile most of the spells I can think of from that world that are close in function have to be set at a specific location, and are implied to either be a process more complicated than just 'cast spell' or have an odd cost.

Although concerning downsides I'd recommend studying Nero's noble phantasm. It resembles a reality marble, but she somehow uses a different process that removes the can't last that long flaw.

Technically for that you don't need to study the full reality marble. The 'various portions of its effect' are technically separate spells.

Also concerning replicating reality marbles I recommend Precocious Acolyte from Digimon World 4. There are probably better perks for just copying spells, but like I said reality marbles are technically magic systems. So a perk for gaining an understanding of how a type of magic works and then reverse engineering it seems like it would be more useful.

I'm not really sure if it would be considered useless, or just usually impractical. Mostly since you can apparently use projections as sacrificial objects in rituals. Which seems useful and kind of amusing.

Technically it's less permanent and more 'last longer than normal'. Which magi can apparently achieve by covering a similar object with the projection.

The easy mode answers are Jibril (NGNL) and Morrigan (Darkstalkers).

Knowledge-seekers and explorers should be pretty easy to convince. Professor Anneliese Grigobretz (Van Helsing), Curie (Fallout 4), Cibo (Blame) seem like good choices to me.

Those who wish to get out of their crapsack worlds are even easier to convince, but you need to discern who just wants to use you to skip off at the next world. This also applies to companions whose worlds aren't crap, but which they don't want to hang around in.
Catherine Chung (SOMA) and Max and the Brides (Mad Max) seem alright.

Then there are those on missions. If you can allow them to succeed in their mission in their native universe, you can convince them by offering them the opportunity in other universes. Justice, riches, exploration, freedom, whatever. Birdy Cephon Altera (Tetsuwan Birdy Decode/Birdy The Mighty), Anderson (Dredd), etc.

>but it doesn't overwrite the local laws of reality.

It tends to make space its bitch pretty often.

That's not the same thing and you know it. There are plenty of magic systems more suited to reverse engineering a Reality Marble, Harry Potter magic just isn't a good fit.

I wish we had a concrete example of a Gemstone attempting magic to clarify whether magic is incompatible with innate power in general or just with the artificial version. I'm inclined to say only the artificial, given that Saints can use magic.
Regardless, the information on the "personal reality" and the curriculum itself would still be valuable to the Association's researchers. Though you'd probably end up being "awarded" with a Sealing Designation for it.

More competent magic users, Mage Association from Nasuverse or Ministry of Magic from Harry Potter?

Cite your reasons.

Nasu. At least in nasu they just kill you if you become too much hassle, harry potter is run by idiots.

Q: Although it did not appear in the works, can Caster use a Reality Marble?
A: Unfortunately, Caster cannot use it. But, if it is a magus of her level of excellence, by precisely constructing small magecraft and large magecraft, she can construct "another world" of the same scale, don't you agree? Well, the time and expenses required for that is vast, after all.
-Comptiq 2007-04 issue - Fate Dojo Q & A:-

Caster Medea /could/ make it but it would take vast amounts of time and expenses.

Also because I looked this up I also found this:
Intrinsic Field. Originally referred to the alien common sense possessed by the beings called devils, but now also includes the unique boundary fields possessed by many people. (Melty Blood Act Cadenza PS2 Manual - Dictionary: Reality Marble [Unusual talent], p.056)
So the requirement is /easier/ for modern magus' as 'many' of them have this Intrinsic Field thing, in Japan this makes a lot of sense because of Japan's melting pot nature in Nasu-verse. So, we were both right and wrong in places.

Magi would think of AIM and it's entire thing as the death of magic I think.

Mage Association win on "competence". Their society is based around research, and the vast majority of them dedicate themselves to that goal.

Wizards, and the Ministry, are just generally lazy cunts. Many of whom can't be bothered to learn a basic Shield charm when there is a "mass murderer" on the loose.

The weakness of Magi is their arrogance, which Wizards aren't exactly short of either.

Nasu. There's a lot more reasons they're not always winning and they have a lot more meaningful opposition than HP wizards.

as in they actually have any sort of thing that can oppose them when they stop being stupid, unlike HP wizards.

HP wizards can (kind of) casually time travel and hand these things out to gifted school children.

Can your mages time travel?

That's not a very good comparison - One is a research institution and the other is a government. That said, most magi in the Association will have off-the-wall mysteries to toss around, whereas the Ministry goons would all tend to use the same effects. In terms of pure knowledge, the Association magi would surpass the Wizards in the Ministry... But that's to be expected, see: Research organisation vs Government.

For all its foibles, I'm just going to site the fact that the Mage Association has never decided to unleash a pack of soul and hope eating, immortal wraiths on their own students. As a security measure against a single convict.

Yes, the 5th True Magic deals with time.

user asked which was more competent, not which had the most under-utilized spells.

No. They just hired the Magus Killer.
Or a Necromancer to win a Grail War, and handed him a piece of the Round Table.