What system/games have the enemies feel very threatening and pushes you to use alternative ways to deal with them even...

What system/games have the enemies feel very threatening and pushes you to use alternative ways to deal with them even running?

Call of Cthulhu is the obvious one.
But generally any system with high lethality will do. When dying is as easy as killing you will think twice before initiating combat.

Came here to post this.

I don't get the obsession with "running away is the most sensible option" in RPGs.
Yes, it probably is, if it were you or me in that situation. It also makes for shitty narratives.
>We were tasked by the king to save the princess, but have you seen how many orcs were there? Fuck'em!
And the story becomes about some other fictional (and thus irrelevant) people who actually have some balls to do things. I don't think being out-balled by NPCs is a great achievement.
Now, Cthulhu I can get behind, you don't have many chances against cosmic horrors and that's kinda the point (discounting motorboats to the face). But that should be the lead-up to the endgame, running away every time is not going to result in great stories.

I kinda want this because it makes doing gutsy things 100% times better, normally the systems we play threat combat in a "balanced" way , it is cool to know you aren't fighting something balanced to you and you need to think quickly on what to do

Check out DCC and other OSR games

CoC, Unknown Armies, PDF related.

>any system with high lethality will do
Exactly this. The more lethal the system, the more threatened the players will feel with combat.

>What system/games have the enemies feel very threatening
I ran a session recently where I led up to the encounter with a distant howling getting closer as the players had to decide whether to abandon treasure and the search for more or not.
The players kept talking amonst themselves built up the scary distant howling in the barren wasteland to be truly horrific monsters.
All from a howl.

Rather than disappoint them, I had to frantically look up stats and turned my low-level easy-start wolf encounter into a run-for-your-life encounter with half a dozen radioactive mutant cannibalistic lycanthropes.
They still had a decent chance if they had stood and fought, but they ran sensibly.

My point being that the fear, the threatening nature of the enemies, or the players hiding, spying, and ultimately running away was entirely independent of the system.

Although others make a good point that if lethality isn't on the table, any risk seems mild unless they players are already invested in the success of the encounter.

Even systems with "balanced" combat you can just... unbalance it. Add 3 times as many orcs or something.

Very few systems stop you from doing this (and the ones that do are pulpy "one man vs an army" sort of systems anyway).

Yeah you can do that but if the system doesnt support it the game can slow down a lot

my ancestors :^)

>if the system doesnt support it the game can slow down a lot
How do you mean?
Because any alternative ways of dealing with enemies rather than direct combat are going to slow down the game.

Just adding more low level enemies to grind through doesn't add threat, that just adds time.

Basically any that isn't D&D, if the GM wants it that way.

>Basically, any including D&D, if the GM wants it that way.
FTFY

D&D is the fucking originator of the "avoid fights, get treasure" mindset.

Just because there are editions where it breaks down, you shouldn't exclude the entire line.

D&D(3+) is really terrible at that kind of thing, though. For instance, running away is rarely if ever an option unless the enemy chooses not to chase you, because most things that are actually threatening can also move faster than the PCs.

Fair enough, I should've specified starting from 3e.

Runequest, and by extension most, if not all, BRP systems.

>D&D(3+) is really terrible at that kind of thing, though. For instance, running away is rarely if ever an option unless the enemy chooses not to chase you, because most things that are actually threatening can also move faster than the PCs.

This is what skill checks and chase rules are for... but if you want to play running away on a grid, you can still slow the enemy down in other ways and then run away (to say nothing about one of you staying back and sacrificing himself so the others can run away being an age old trope).

That said, if you have to run

>Fair enough, I should've specified starting from 3e.

It still works at low levels easy in any WotC edition. At higher levels, it gets tricky, but you are supposed to be really powerful by then so that sorta makes sense.

I play GURPS so fights can be really challenging if not approached correctly.

According to Veeky Forums D&D is terrible at everything, because they don't like it rather than for any actual reason.

I wouldn't go that far, but modern D&D is targeted for a specific niche(pseudo-medieval/renaissance, high-magic fantasy with larger than life heroes) and it doesn't work too well if you try to move too far away from that in any direction.

>What system/games have the enemies feel very threatening and pushes you to use alternative ways to deal with them even running?
What are you trying to achieve, exactly OP?
We can spin some scenarios to get you started, but limitations spark creativity more than a blank canvas.

>For instance, running away is rarely if ever an option unless the enemy chooses not to chase you, because most things that are actually threatening can also move faster than the PCs.

That's a chunk of why 4e had Skill Challenges. To have some solid rules for athletic contests like that that are not 'X has higher speed, they win' (As say, the rogue's superior agility could give him the edge in tight corridors or the warden's ability to just keep running well past when the guy chasing is exhausted)

Unknown Armies 2ed has one of my favorite pages from an rpg.

I remember when someone made a thread with this pic and it caused a huge outrage. Kind of speaks about general attitude to combat.

Wraith: The Oblivion.

In Wraith, all of your characters are really bad at fighting. This is because you're basically Joe Everyman stuck in the Underworld, and you really don't want to have to fight a Spectre. The powers you have are also very, very minor (I can't think of any Arcanoi that are genuinely useful in a combat situation) and they run out of juice really fast.

Also, Spectres attack in packs, and it's likely that your own dark side will sabotage you at a crucial moment, so you can be dragged down and sent right into a Harrowing. One fight in Wraith, and you're probably messed up for the rest of the session.

In so many games enemies are nothing more than experience points and loot on the hoof, and nobody thinks about smiting first and asking questions later. Then you get into a fight in Runequest and someone fairly big and strong hits you in the head with a Danish axe (2D6+2+1D6 damage). On average, your head has 5 to 6 hit points, perhaps covered by a helmet that absorbs 3 to 5 damage. Ouch.

RQ really teaches players that combat is deadly and should be the last resort when it comes to conflict resolution.

Similarly so often enemies often, with bad GMs at least, fight to the death or near death.

If a gang of thugs trying to rob your party don't get scared off by you drawing weapons, they should certainly be at least considering if it's worth while after one or two of their number and bleeding from new holes even non-fatal ones.

>they should certainly be at least considering if it's worth while

This. Also, even if some random encounter chart tells you that you're ambushed by 1D8+4 bandits, the GM ought to use common sense whether they would engage at all and decide that discretion is the better part of valour.

I'll use my RQ campaign as an example: the four characters are basically the tribal (think early Saxons or such) emissary and his personal guard. They have mail armour, swords, shields and spears, ride horses and have fancy saddles and all the paraphernalia. Furthermore they're showing the tribal insignia. Sure, they look rich and worth taking, but one look at them should tell the raggedy outlaws of the wood that they are likely extremely hard men and a woman and they are unarmoured and undergunned. Better to wait for an easier target than try robbing them.

I like runequest but i would to see a setting other than glorantha

I want to achieve situation that a fight will surely end in death for both parts the system we currently play haves options for the players but they will mostly win on one on one fight unless i give them something far from their levels

Is this game any good?

Bump

I remember third edition having really threatening enemies every monster could one shot you if you weren't careful

>Basically any, *including* D&D, if the GM wants it that way.
Want D&D to be lethal? Go back to the old school way of running adventures, putting monsters, traps and other hazards where and as it seems logical to do so rather than worrying about calculating encounter levels. Then let the chips fall where they may. You'll be absolutely amazed at just how quick your players learn to act intelligently rather than just charging into everything head first.

>I remember third edition having really threatening enemies every monster could one shot you if you weren't a full caster
FTFY

>I want to achieve situation that a fight will surely end in death for both parts
So, you want scenarios were the combat is equally dangerous for both sides?

>the system we currently play haves options for the players but they will mostly win on one on one fight unless i give them something far from their levels
If the system you are currently playing only poses risk to the players if their enemy is of a higher level, then that just means the system is not good at describing "levels".
Go with what works. If higher level enemies work, go with it.
Alternatively, you can take the weaker enemies and apply Tucker's Kobalds.
Look it up.
Also, you can equip weaker enemies with better gear.

Fudge too.
If your planned encounter starts tearing up the PCs worse than intended, maybe they had a wound from a previous battle and lower hp, or maybe the PCs get unexpected reinforcements.
If the enemies are getting torn up by the the PCs unintendedly, then maybe the enemies get reinforcements or use a powerful item they were saving for when they got in trouble.

Just be aware that if you give the enemy equipment, you have to account for it possibly aiding the PCs after the battle.

Any questions?